My Top 50 NBA Players of All-Time

[alfdogg 0]

I don't mean to sound like a homer, but where did Reggie Miller rank on this list?

[Guest Felonies!]

I shouldn't like Reggie Miller, since he was a Pacer and I'm a Bulls fan, but I can't help it. I really like Reggie Miller. Likewise, Stockton & Malone.

 

Also, I interpreted that Isiah Thomas footnote to mean "people should forget about his GM tenure when they do these lists," rather than "I dropped him in the rankings because he's a dipshit," but I don't know what the intent was.

[AboveAverage484 0]

I don't mean to sound like a homer, but where did Reggie Miller rank on this list?

 

Reggie Miller was no. 62.

[Guest]

Also, I interpreted that Isiah Thomas footnote to mean "people should forget about his GM tenure when they do these lists," rather than "I dropped him in the rankings because he's a dipshit," but I don't know what the intent was.

Yes, that's what I meant. All things of that regard like Magic Johnson getting HIV, Jordan's gambling, Kobe's rape case, Wilt fucking 10,000 women, and Charles Barkley spitting on a girl should be forgotten when ranking the players. Too many people rank the person along with the player, when the person that they are outside of the game should be disregarded.

[alfdogg 0]

OK, here are my top 10 players at each position, all-time. Most of the guys from pre-80's are mostly stat-based, because I didn't see them play, for obvious reasons. I took finals appearances and rings into consideration, as well as MVP's, but it wasn't a necessity to make the lists, as you'll see. For the 50's and most of the 60's, I also took into consideration how they would hold up against today's players. Wilt surely wouldn't average 40+ points a game, but he'd be right up there at the top of the list of dominant players. Same with Oscar. On the other hand, George Mikan would probably get knocked around by most PF's today, let alone centers. But back then, there was no one close to his size.

 

Centers

1. Wilt Chamberlain

2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

3. Bill Russell

4. Hakeem Olajuwon

5. Shaquille O'Neal

6. Moses Malone

7. Willis Reed

8. David Robinson

9. Elvin Hayes

10. Wes Unseld

 

Hayes never won an MVP, other than that, every player on this list has at least 1 ring and 1 MVP. The top 3 may vary depending on how I'm feeling. And for Knicks fans, I promise I kept an open mind about Patrick Ewing when making this list. Ewing, Dave Cowens, and Bob McAdoo were probably my next 3, not necessarily in that order.

 

Power Forwards

1. Tim Duncan

2. Charles Barkley

3. Karl Malone

4. Bob Pettit

5. Kevin McHale

6. Kevin Garnett

7. George McGinnis

8. Billy Cunningham

9. Jerry Lucas

10. Dennis Rodman

 

This was one case where success was the deciding factor. I gave Barkley the edge on offense, and Duncan the edge on defense. However, Barkley contended for a title for one year, while Duncan had a ring in his second season (though, admittedly, he wasn't stepping into your average lottery team). He's got three now, and I don't think he's won his last one, either. You can see I took the ABA into consideration on these lists, as well, which explains McGinnis's placement, with three ABA titles and a co-MVP (which he should have won outright). Cunningham averaged 21/10/4 over 11 seasons and was ABA MVP in '73. And the Bulls don't win their last three titles without Rodman, I'd bet money on that.

 

Small Forward

1. Larry Bird

2. Elgin Baylor

3. Julius Erving

4. Scottie Pippen

5. Dominique Wilkins

6. John Havlicek

7. Adrian Dantley

8. Alex English

9. Bernard King

10. James Worthy

 

We've argued Pippen to death in the past, so I'll just let Eddie Johnson make my argument for me this time. A lot of people may only remember Dominique as a "Human Highlight Film", but I also remember the Hawks having the best record in the East when they traded him for...Danny Manning. The Hawks imploded in the playoffs, and then lost Manning without compensation as well, and haven't really been the same since. I remember the 'Nique-led Celtics making the eventual-conference-champion-Magic sweat in the first round in '95. That team was complete shit when you got past Dominique. I remember Dominique on the Spurs, with Robinson out for the year with a broken foot (I think), probably keeping them from ranking with the '73 Sixers. Just some of the forgotten reasons why he cracks the top 5.

 

Shooting Guard

1. Michael Jordan

2. Oscar Robertson

3. Jerry West

4. Rick Barry

5. Allen Iverson

6. Clyde Drexler

7. George Gervin

8. Kobe Bryant

9. Pete Maravich

10. Reggie Miller

 

3-7 are heavily success-based...all were/are terrific scorers. West and Barry led their teams to rings. Iverson doesn't have a ring, but he's a former MVP and is the only guy that comes to mind to really, truly carry a team to the Finals, even if he had about a snowball's chance in hell once he got there. Drexler never won the big one on his own, but you could certainly argue that the '95 Rockets don't raise the trophy without him. Kobe's been argued to death, as well, so I'll just say that him and Shaq needed *each other*, not just the former, and leave it at that for now.

 

Point Guard

1. Magic Johnson

2. John Stockton

3. Isiah Thomas

4. Jason Kidd

5. Bob Cousy

6. Gary Payton

7. Walt Frazier

8. Nate Archibald

9. Kevin Johnson

10. Tim Hardaway

 

Obviously I blocked out Payton's non-Seattle tenure in the league when making this list. Mark Jackson is probably #11, I really wanted to include him on this list.

 

Feedback appreciated.

[Guest]

One thing, James Worthy is a little low (by little low, I mean 2 spots) on the SF list. The rest I agree with as of now, for the most part. The players that are active on those lists could jump spots before it's all over.

[Fökai 0]

Quick ones that stuck out...

 

--I don't know much about Elvin Hayes, so I would've put Unseld and then Ewing above him (vice-versa, actually)

 

--I agree with 909 about Worthy. I never got the chance to see Dantley or English play, though, so my list would be biased.

 

Besides that, that is a great list, Alf. You were fair to a bunch of guys that .com writers tend to overlook for their "underrated" picks. Two quick questions for you, though:

 

1. Are there any players you think that could break into each list by 2010?

 

2. Are there any active players on the list that could move up, and how high?

[AboveAverage484 0]

Here's my lists with the same players you used; I did not use ABA stats/awards for consideration, only NBA.

 

Center:

 

1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

2. Wilt Chamberlain

3. Bill Russell

4. Shaquille O'Neal

5. Moses Malone

6. Hakeem Olajuwon

7. David Robinson

8. Willis Reed

9. Elvin Hayes

10. Wes Unseld

 

Power Forward:

 

1. Bob Pettit

2. Karl Malone

3. Tim Duncan

4. Charles Barkley

5. Kevin Garnett

6. Jerry Lucas

7. Billy Cunningham

8. Kevin McHale

9. George McGinnis

10. Dennis Rodman

 

Small Forward:

 

1. Larry Bird

2. Elgin Baylor

3. Julius Erving

4. John Havlicek

5. Scottie Pippen

6. Dominique Wilkins

7. James Worthy

8. Alex English

9. Bernard King

10. Adrian Dantley

 

Shooting Guard:

 

1. Michael Jordan

2. Oscar Robertson

3. Jerry West

4. Allen Iverson

5. George Gervin

6. Rick Barry

7. Kobe Bryant

8. Clyde Drexler

9. Pete Maravich

10. Reggie Miller

 

Point Guard:

 

1. Magic Johnson

2. Bob Cousy

3. John Stockton

4. Isiah Thomas

5. Walt Frazier

6. Gary Payton

7. Tiny Archibald

8. Jason Kidd

9. Tim Hardaway

10. Kevin Johnson

[naiwf 0]

Alf's lists seem to be more thorough and fair across the generational gap from pre-Jordan until now. The fact that guys like Ewing and Nash (the two main ones I noticed at first glanced) aren't in their positional top 10 is something that I was trying to argue when saying they don't really belong in the greatest 50 players of all time.

 

The one question I would ask is, does anyone think that a case can be made that Oscar Robertson is the greatest individual talent in NBA history even though his career doesn't match up with guys like Jordan, Magic or Wilt?

[Ripper 0]

I don't see how you don't include ewing. The second best player on the Knicks was....well...I will let you guys debate that, but the guy was probably never an allstar, let alone a NBA great.

 

If it weren't for the bulls, I say the Knicks would have had at least 2 championships, and Ewing took the Knicks to the finals against the Rockets and it went to 7. Once again, with pure bullshit around him. John Starks, Anthony Mason, Anthony Bonner...who the hell else was there. Derel Harper maybe but he was in the running down stages of his career when he left Dallas for the Knicks.

 

And I will NEVER rank Gary Payton higher than most great guards. Take Kevin Johnson(i know...homer in me). He was a better scorer, and better point guard. And despite Payton being the "Glove" every great point guard in the 90's made him their personal bitch when he played. Yes goddamnit, I am saying. Gary Paytons defense against quality guards was overrated. Yeah, he would shut down the Negele Knights of the world, but any point guard with any semblance of quickness would own his ass, and that is why they saw so many quick exits in the playoffs. Nick Van Excel, Robert Pack were both basically responsible for the Sonics falling in the first round against lower seeded teams. I would easily rank Tim Hardaway, Kevin Johnson, Jason Kidd and Mark Jackson ahead of him in his era.

 

I do agree with most of these list though. And no, Nash isn't one of the top 10 points ever...maybe like number 12.

[alfdogg 0]

1. Are there any players you think that could break into each list by 2010?

 

2. Are there any active players on the list that could move up, and how high?

I think Wade and LeBron could easily break into their lists by then, but I think LeBron has to go farther in the playoffs, too, and the same goes for Tracy McGrady. Dirk has several good years ahead of him, too, I think. Yao Ming is a longshot. Play-wise, he's well on his way, but again, post-season success has to factor in somewhat.

 

Kobe's the only one I really can see moving up on a list, and it's totally dependent on how he leads his team. The only thing that kept me from putting him above Gervin and Drexler, was the fact that those two both led teams deep into the playoffs.

 

As far as Worthy goes, the only problem I had with him was that I have doubts he would have done as well as he did without Magic. I could see maybe putting him over King, I suppose.

[Guest]

Take Kevin Johnson(i know...homer in me). He was a better scorer, and better point guard.

No, you're right. He's the most overlooked player I've ever seen. My Worthy argument lies purely on his playoff stats, his triple double in Game 7 against the Pistons and his FG%. Magic and Byron Scott have also said things that lead me to believe he was just as important as anyone else on the team.

[iggymcfly 0]

I don't think Kobe's getting enough credit here. He was a major part of part of three championship teams, and he's certainly right up there on a pure scoring and talent basis. I think he's a much better all-around player than Iverson and much better than Clyde Drexler. I'd probably bump Pete Maravich up a couple spots too if we're focusing on peak ability as opposed to just longevity.

 

Willis Reed seems a little high me to me too, as I can't really see him higher than 10 on the centers' list. I think that one Game 7 leads to people remembering him as more of a long-term force than he actually was.

[Ripper 0]

I would rank Kobe higher than Iverson mostly because Kobe is a better defender than Allen. But Clyde was a great defender, scorer and led teams to the finals. I wouldn't put Kobe higher than Clyde just yet, but he certainly could pass him. Depending on what positions you consider Dwayne Wade and Lebron James, Kobe will most likely be the third best two guard ever....second if you consider Oscar Robertson a point.

[Brett Favre 0]

Alf's lists seem to be more thorough and fair across the generational gap from pre-Jordan until now. The fact that guys like Ewing and Nash (the two main ones I noticed at first glanced) aren't in their positional top 10 is something that I was trying to argue when saying they don't really belong in the greatest 50 players of all time.

 

You mean when you got owned?

 

I know ESPN had a list somewhere; Nash was like 8 or 9 in top PGs of all time. Just saying that it's different for everyone I guess.

 

EDIT: Here's the list - http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?pa...testPointGuards

[ANKLELOCK 0]

Karl Malone is God.

[alfdogg 0]

So besides Ewing, is there anyone not on this list right now that you guys think should be?

[Maztinho 0]

Alf's lists seem to be more thorough and fair across the generational gap from pre-Jordan until now. The fact that guys like Ewing and Nash (the two main ones I noticed at first glanced) aren't in their positional top 10 is something that I was trying to argue when saying they don't really belong in the greatest 50 players of all time.

 

You mean when you got owned?

 

I know ESPN had a list somewhere; Nash was like 8 or 9 in top PGs of all time. Just saying that it's different for everyone I guess.

 

EDIT: Here's the list - http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?pa...testPointGuards

 

I buy Magic #1 and Oscar #2, but Isiah over Stockton? Sure I might be homering it, but does two titles, and being a Finals MVP really overcome MOST ASSISTS AND STEALS EVER?

 

I read the votes, Scoop Jackson and Marc Stein are fucking idiots. 7th and 8th best point guard ever, for JOHN STOCKTON? IDIOTS.

[Guest]

Most ESPN polls are delusional. Almost any poll they make has too many current players on it, and a ton of guys out of place. No, I did not click the link.

[alfdogg 0]

I'm sure Stockton being white played into it in the case of Scoop Jackson.

[Ripper 0]

Isaiah and stockton...

 

I don't know. I buy into Stockton being the best point guard ever, but at the same time I call Magic Johnson the best basketball player ever in my eyes. Guys like Magic and Oscar, I don't know if you could really put them at just the point guard...well...maybe Magic.

 

At worst I think you can put Stockton at 3. Isaiah was REALLY REALLY GREAT, but I don't see what separates him from Nate Archibald, besides playing for a couple of great piston teams. Plus in the grand scheme of things Stockton was great longer.

[Maztinho 0]

Isaiah and stockton...

 

I don't know. I buy into Stockton being the best point guard ever, but at the same time I call Magic Johnson the best basketball player ever in my eyes. Guys like Magic and Oscar, I don't know if you could really put them at just the point guard...well...maybe Magic.

 

At worst I think you can put Stockton at 3. Isaiah was REALLY REALLY GREAT, but I don't see what separates him from Nate Archibald, besides playing for a couple of great piston teams. Plus in the grand scheme of things Stockton was great longer.

 

Which is what I was saying... if Magic and Oscar are on the list, I buy Stockton at three since he never got the Big One, and wasn't ever an MVP outside of the All-Star Game in Utah, but Isiah's career boiled down to a handful of really good seasons in which assist and steals wise he was still not at Stockton's level. He simply was on a better over-all team.

 

How many years did Stockton go without missing a regular season game? 9-10?

 

I've been pissed all day about this.

[Ripper 0]

well I didn't go that far. For at least 4 of those years, Isaiah unquestionably put up better numbers than stockton over all. Somwhere in those years he put up like 14, 11, 10, 10 assist for those 4 years and was at about 2.5 steals a game. Plus he was a damn good player until the day he stepped off the court.

 

But Stockton so consitantly solid at the point for so freakin long, I don't see how you can put Isaiah ahead of him, although it is somewhat closer than you would think.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

Alfdog's list is very good, but I would rank Kobe higher.

[Maztinho 0]

well I didn't go that far. For at least 4 of those years, Isaiah unquestionably put up better numbers than stockton over all. Somwhere in those years he put up like 14, 11, 10, 10 assist for those 4 years and was at about 2.5 steals a game. Plus he was a damn good player until the day he stepped off the court.

 

But Stockton so consitantly solid at the point for so freakin long, I don't see how you can put Isaiah ahead of him, although it is somewhat closer than you would think.

 

But in those years Stockton still lead the league in Assists per game. IIRC Stockton went a decade of averaging over 10 per, which nobody else has done. Factoring in Isiah's court leadership and what not, it brings it closer, but Stockton had the cliche "made everyone around him better" going down.

 

Malone wouldn't be #2 Points overall without Stock (it works both ways, I know). Players that have pretty good years in Utah during the Stockton years usually saw their productivity fall after signing somewhere else or being traded. You have to point to Stockton's ability to see the court and get the right person the ball at the right time into that.

 

Also, outside of Malone and an outside shot of Hornecek like waaaay outside, Stockton never played with any Hall of Fame level players, where as The Bad Boys will get probably three, maybe four guys in (Rodman has a legit shot I believe).

 

What gets me is Stockton was only like 3 points behind Isiah, and the two doofuses who had Jason Kidd two spots above Stockton threw it off.

[alfdogg 0]

Isiah made his teammates better, too. Maybe not talent-wise, but he was arguably, pound-for-pound, the toughest guy ever to play in the league, and I think that rubbed off a little bit on everyone who played with him.

[AboveAverage484 0]

Someone mentioned making a list for each era or decade. As a result of this, I've started on a list for each major "era," starting with the current and going back to around the 50's. These are the top 25 players from the present era, taking into account their career performance as well as their performance at their peak. Only players with at least 400 games were included. Only players that I determined reached the prime of their careers in the current decade were included.

 

25. Glenn Robinson

24. Jamal Mashburn

23. Sam Cassell

22. Peja Stojakovic

21. Antoine Walker

20. Baron Davis

19. Steve Francis

18. Elton Brand

16. Ben Wallace

16. Jermaine O'Neal (who, interestingly enough, tied Ben Wallace)

15. Shawn Marion

14. Stephon Marbury

13. Ray Allen

12. Paul Pierce

11. Vince Carter

10. Chris Webber

9. Dirk Nowitzki

8. Tracy McGrady

7. Jason Kidd

6. Steve Nash

5. Kobe Bryant

4. Kevin Garnett

3. Allen Iverson

2. Tim Duncan

1. Shaquille O'Neal

 

Honorable Mentions: Ron Artest, Eddie Jones, Jerry Stackhouse, Michael Finley, Shareef Abdur-Rahim.

 

The nineties are up next.

[alfdogg 0]

So I assume this one goes from the 99-00 season, to now?

[alfdogg 0]

OK, here's my list. Taken into account are the seasons from 2000 (the Lakers' first title) to now, including stats, awards, and playoff success. My limit was 300 games, as opposed to the 400 benoitrulz4life used.

 

1. Shaquille O'Neal

2. Tim Duncan

3. Allen Iverson

4. Kobe Bryant

5. Jason Kidd

6. Kevin Garnett

7. Dirk Nowitzki

8. Ben Wallace

9. Steve Nash

10. Tracy McGrady

11. Ray Allen

12. Chris Webber

13. Elton Brand

14. Paul Pierce

15. Vince Carter

16. Antoine Walker

17. Shawn Marion

18. Chauncey Billups

19. Sam Cassell

20. Jermaine O'Neal

21. Karl Malone

22. Antawn Jamison

23. Stephon Marbury

24. Mike Bibby

25. Dikembe Mutombo

 

I'm guessing benoitrulz's list weighed a lot more on stats than mine did. I'd have a hard time excluding a Finals MVP (Billups) from my list. Antawn Jamison is probably the Adrian Dantley of the new millennium in terms of not getting enough respect. He put up a lot of his numbers with a bad team in Golden State, but the past couple years he's shown he can do it with a playoff team, as well. Bibby gets in ahead of Francis and Baron based solely on his playoff resume. He can definitely move up with a few more years like this one. Mutombo was a big part of two Finals teams, was DPOY in 2000 and holds rebounding titles in '00 and '01.

 

These were my next 10, in no particular order:

Jerry Stackhouse

Michael Finley

Andre Miller

Ron Artest

Glenn Robinson

Steve Francis

Baron Davis

Peja Stojakovic

Gary Payton

Shareef Abdur-Rahim

[AboveAverage484 0]

Good list alf, I had Malone, Mutombo, and Payton in my nineties list. I forgot to mention that I only ranked a player in one era for my lists, otherwise I would have had those three on it as well.

 

Also, I took into account stats and awards before 2000, I only had to use that as a buffer zone to seperate each player into different eras. Here are my ninties era platers:

 

25. Latrell Sprewell

24. Dennis Rodman

23. Reggie Miller

22. Shawn Kemp

21. Dikembe Mutombo

20. Joe Dumars

19. Anfernee Hardaway

18. Chris Mullin

17. Alonzo Mourning

16. Brad Daugherty

15. Mark Price

14. Mitch Richmond

13. Kevin Johnson

12. Tim Hardaway

11. Grant Hill

10. Gary Payton

9. Scottie Pippen

8. Clyde Drexler

7. Patrick Ewing

6. John Stockton

5. David Robinson

4. Hakeem Olajuwon

3. Charles Barkley

2. Karl Malone

1. Michael Jordan

 

Honorable Mentions: Vin Baker, Derrick Coleman, Glen Rice, Larry Johnson, Rod Strickland.