Chicago requires big-box stores to pay 'living wage'

[Guest Felonies!]

You're dealing with a different business model, though.

[Danville_Wrestling 0]

Eventually, I think the min. wage will go up because I dont know what else that can be done with the prices of everything going up and wages for most people being stagnant. Leaving things as they are is only creating bigger problems down the road.

 

To be honest I don't even think national minimum wage actually represents minimum wage anymore. A lot of states have set up their own minimum wage laws and quite a few are going to be voted on in state elections this November. I'm in total favor of letting states decide minimum wage over the federal government since a sweeping increase in minimum wage can't account for the cost of living differences between somewhere like California and Mississippi for example.

 

Also, the majority of big proponents I see sticking their neck on the line for the minimum wage increases are unions since they like to index contracts on the minimum wage. The argument is like "well someone at Wal-Mart is getting $10 an hour for pushing carts around so since I have to work in this car factory I should be making 3-4 times that much an hour."

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

You're dealing with a different business model, though.

 

They're both big-box-discount-economies-of-scale type joints, no?

[MrRant 0]

No. For one, Costco CHOOSES to pay that. They don't have the city government come in and say that since you are a warehouse store, you need to pay your employees twice what everone else makes.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

Eventually, I think the min. wage will go up because I dont know what else that can be done with the prices of everything going up and wages for most people being stagnant. Leaving things as they are is only creating bigger problems down the road.

 

To be honest I don't even think national minimum wage actually represents minimum wage anymore. A lot of states have set up their own minimum wage laws and quite a few are going to be voted on in state elections this November. I'm in total favor of letting states decide minimum wage over the federal government since a sweeping increase in minimum wage can't account for the cost of living differences between somewhere like California and Mississippi for example.

 

Also, the majority of big proponents I see sticking their neck on the line for the minimum wage increases are unions since they like to index contracts on the minimum wage. The argument is like "well someone at Wal-Mart is getting $10 an hour for pushing carts around so since I have to work in this car factory I should be making 3-4 times that much an hour."

 

MD upped its Min Wage to $6.15 but even that I think isnt enough, even locally where the cost of living is much less than on the other side of the Bay. It probably should be up to the states, but then I think that makes it more complicated than it should be.

[Guest Felonies!]

Yeah, sovereignty is hard work.

[Slayer 0]

*conquers The Czech Republic*

[The Metal Maniac 0]

You're dealing with a different business model, though.

 

They're both big-box-discount-economies-of-scale type joints, no?

 

2 big differences though.

 

One, Costco sells a lot of stuff for other merchants. Like, cases of candy bars or whatever. Wal-Mart may sell large items, but Costco sells larger ones, and that has an effect on their pricing.

 

Two, you have to pay money to get a membership to shop at Costco.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

We don't have Costco here, so I don't know much about it. They sound like good people, though.

 

One, Costco sells a lot of stuff for other merchants. Like, cases of candy bars or whatever. Wal-Mart may sell large items, but Costco sells larger ones, and that has an effect on their pricing.

 

Also, this doesn't make any sense to me. It could be because I'm pretty drunk and possibly breaking up with my girlfriend, though.

 

Also, I just got a new job that I don't really want, but I have to take. And, my best friend just got a new job and is moving far away.

 

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

^emo

[EricMM 0]

All this free society capitalist stuff has proven to be quite bullshit in numerous cases.

 

That works when people build businesses in their area, hire people from their area, and are focused on their area.

 

With a company like Wal-Mart, nothing they do is in the interests of anyone but their bottom line, their shareholders, and their profits. If it is profitable, they will do anything, from lowering or keeping wages down, to not giving health insurance. If walmart does well, their employees will not see it, doubtfully they'll even know about it.

 

They're a lowest common denominator type store, and they use their ridiculous size to force companies to lower supply costs. They can drive out any competing business in the area, and thus keep their costs down, and thus financially retard an area.

 

They are too big, it is self-defense for cities to enact these kinds of things to keep Wal-Mart out.

 

What, do you think these ideas and movements have popped up for no reason? These movements are reactive, not just going after money.

[Guest Felonies!]

We don't have Costco here, so I don't know much about it. They sound like good people, though.

 

One, Costco sells a lot of stuff for other merchants. Like, cases of candy bars or whatever. Wal-Mart may sell large items, but Costco sells larger ones, and that has an effect on their pricing.

 

Also, this doesn't make any sense to me. It could be because I'm pretty drunk and possibly breaking up with my girlfriend, though.

 

Also, I just got a new job that I don't really want, but I have to take. And, my best friend just got a new job and is moving far away.

 

Costco is basically just a big warehouse where you buy everything in bulk. I think he's saying that it's a supplier for small businesses and so forth as well as just a place where suburbanites buy groceries or whatever. Like instead of buying a little bag of Snickers Fun Size like they have at Walgreen's or whatever, you get the big box of Snickers bars that high school concession stands would buy. Also, you have to pay an annual membership fee, and it's not really just a nominal one, I don't think. By the way, sorry about your girlfriend, I hope things work out for you.

 

Furthermore, I realized that there aren't any Wal-Marts in Chicago right now anyway, and that I'm glad there aren't. Still, I oppose the ordinance just because of the principle of it.

[MrRant 0]

We don't have Costco here, so I don't know much about it. They sound like good people, though.

 

One, Costco sells a lot of stuff for other merchants. Like, cases of candy bars or whatever. Wal-Mart may sell large items, but Costco sells larger ones, and that has an effect on their pricing.

 

Also, this doesn't make any sense to me. It could be because I'm pretty drunk and possibly breaking up with my girlfriend, though.

 

Also, I just got a new job that I don't really want, but I have to take. And, my best friend just got a new job and is moving far away.

 

Costco is basically just a big warehouse where you buy everything in bulk. I think he's saying that it's a supplier for small businesses and so forth as well as just a place where suburbanites buy groceries or whatever. Like instead of buying a little bag of Snickers Fun Size like they have at Walgreen's or whatever, you get the big box of Snickers bars that high school concession stands would buy. Also, you have to pay an annual membership fee, and it's not really just a nominal one, I don't think. By the way, sorry about your girlfriend, I hope things work out for you.

 

Furthermore, I realized that there aren't any Wal-Marts in Chicago right now anyway, and that I'm glad there aren't. Still, I oppose the ordinance just because of the principle of it.

 

Annual membership is $40.

 

And as far as EricMM goes... shut the fuck up hippy. A city can just not approve Walmart going in, not to mention ALL companies care about the bottom line or they won't be in business. What about McDonalds which hires for minimum wage and doesn't offer benefits from what I remember? I have a friend who works at Lowes for around $9.50 per hour and even their benefits are still $70 a month for one person.

[Guest Felonies!]

Could've sworn it was more like $100. Guess that is kinda nominal.

[EricMM 0]

Rant, I maintain, where is the outcry against McD's?

 

Its not there, okay, perhaps about the food, but not their business practices.

 

What, do you think people just hate Wal-Mart? Walmarts depress areas. They really do.

[Guest Felonies!]

Wal-Marts depress me.

[MrRant 0]

Rant, I maintain, where is the outcry against McD's?

 

Its not there, okay, perhaps about the food, but not their business practices.

 

What, do you think people just hate Wal-Mart? Walmarts depress areas. They really do.

 

There is plenty of outcry against McD's for the health content of their food.

 

You don't know much about business do you? The only thing that people don't like about Walmart (mostly) is that they use their power to drive down supplier costs so they can have lower prices for customers. Little companies don't like it but it's something they have to do to be on Walmart shelves, but they don't need to. Small companies will never be able to compete against most bigger stores on price.

 

Quit being a fucking braindead hippy.

[EricMM 0]

And don't you see that when Walmart forces suppliers to lower costs below what they are comfortable at, it has a negative effect on them?

 

Because cheap at any cost does not always lead to quality goods or services.

 

And its not an option with Walmart.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Well, if Wal-Mart can use their leverage to get goods at better prices, and pass the savings on to the consumers, why shouldn't they?

 

As for all this talk about Wal-Mart products being inferior...is the stuff at K-Mart, Target, or Shopko really all that much better? I mean, yeah, Wal-Mart doesn't carry any high quality product lines, but I've never bought anything from their that's been so incredibly awful, either.

 

If you want high quality, go to a specialty retailer and do your talking with your wallet.

[EricMM 0]

Forcing companies to outsource their labor is one thing I don't appreciate at all.

[MrRant 0]

They don't HAVE to. They can still supply Target, Kohls, Mom & Pop stores and various regional chains like Fred Meyer.

[EricMM 0]

WalMart has such a huge share of the market, often I've read that if Walmart doesn't carry you, you cannot compete.

[MrRant 0]

If your product is good enough, you can.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Uh...tons of companies don't offer their products at Wal-Mart.

[Prophet of Mike Zagurski 0]

You hate the oil companies and Wal-Mart and whatever, here's a practical solution I've been trying to work on, buy shares in those companies. Any idiot can be a shareholder.

[NoCalMike 0]

One of the main concerns always lost in the minimum wage argument is the fact that inflation is outgrowing the true value of the dollar. That is the main problem, not so much that wages themselves are low, but the fact that inflation is not slowing down anytime soon, thus trying to make the dollar stretch that much more is nearly impossible.

 

Also like I said before, when a place like Wal-Mart pays so poorly that it's workers still need state assistance and state healthcare, how is that helping a local government at all? The burden of Wal-Mart's business practices is being pushed to the tax payers, we as the taxpayers basically are the ones that keep a place like Wal-Mart in business because by paying our taxes we allow Wal-Mart the ability to fuck over it's workers.

[MrRant 0]

One of the main concerns always lost in the minimum wage argument is the fact that inflation is outgrowing the true value of the dollar. That is the main problem, not so much that wages themselves are low, but the fact that inflation is not slowing down anytime soon, thus trying to make the dollar stretch that much more is nearly impossible.

 

Also like I said before, when a place like Wal-Mart pays so poorly that it's workers still need state assistance and state healthcare, how is that helping a local government at all? The burden of Wal-Mart's business practices is being pushed to the tax payers, we as the taxpayers basically are the ones that keep a place like Wal-Mart in business because by paying our taxes we allow Wal-Mart the ability to fuck over it's workers.

 

Or you just raise the minimum fucking wage for the entire fucking area. Aren't Mom & Pop's Video store pushing the same thing onto the state since they generally don't offer health insurance either?

 

Hell fucking yes.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

You hate the oil companies and Wal-Mart and whatever, here's a practical solution I've been trying to work on, buy shares in those companies. Any idiot can be a shareholder.

 

?

 

If you don't like a company, wouldn't you generally not want to own their stock?

[Guest Felonies!]

I think he's saying make money off them in spite of disliking them? I can't tell.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

K, first, Chezch did explain pretty much exactly what I was trying to. When you buy in bulk, you pay less, so Costco buys in HUGE bulk (like, a pallet filled with cases of candy bars) and then sells those bulk items at a price that is still cheaper then buying those things individually.

 

Also, Costco has varying membership fees. If you own a business of your own, I think you have to pay a higher fee (around $100) but that allows you to buy certain things. Or something.

 

Well, if Wal-Mart can use their leverage to get goods at better prices, and pass the savings on to the consumers, why shouldn't they?

 

Because then you have a race to the bottom effect.

 

Look at it this way; I own a store, and I want to lower my prices. However, I already sell things at low prices, so that I make only a small amount of profit on each thing sold. However, I sell a bazillion things every day, so it adds up. For example, I might pay a dollar for a box of cookies, then sell it to you for a $1.25. I only get 25 cents per box of cookies, but I sell lots of cookies, so I make lots of money. That is how Wal-Mart works (not to say their margins are that thin, but they do tend to be thinner then you might expect).

 

But I can't very well take a box of cookies that I paid a dollar for and sell it for a dollar, can I? I'd make no money. So how am I going to make my prices lower? I need to cut costs somewhere. Know where the easiest place to cut costs in virtually any business is?

 

Wages. Think about it, if there's a thousand employees at a Wal-Mart, and I decide to pay them 10 cents an hour less each, that means I now have ten cents X a thousand workers X the amount of hours those workers work. Every day.

 

But that doesn't just affect the people who work at Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart's suppliers are also affected by this. They need to cut their costs, because Wal-Mart says so (and Wal-Mart literally is big enough to fuck over some companies if they refused to sell their stuff, so they can't just say no). How are they gonna cut costs? Well, sooner or later it's coming out of someone's wages.

 

Which wouldn't be half as bad if not for the fact that it all comes around. Since so many people are now making less money due to Wal-Mart's insistence on lower prices, they can now no longer afford these lowered prices. Thus, Wal-Mart will make the prices lower, which makes wages lower...

 

Race to the bottom.

 

It may not work exactly like that, since it's been a few years since I had that class, but it's something like that.