Things that bothered you in great matches..

[Guest messiahtype]

a match that is universally praised as an all time classic, and rightfully so has some real bothersome elements in the match. im referring to the WM3 savage/steamboat ic title match. steamboat basically ignored the storyline imo. savage tried to end his career by crushing his throat with a bell, yet ricky uses karate chops/armdrags to extract revenge? and the payoff is a small package finsh?(though i did like the creativity of it) it didmt seem to build off the storyline like its suposed to.

 

look at shawn/taker, shawn costs taker the belt, so taker's out for blood. austin basically assaults and costs hart mathces every week. their 2nd fight is a straight up brawl, the exact opposite of their ss96 encounter. did the savage/steamboat match bother you? nane some of your examples as well.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

It bothered me that the two blowoff's to the Lynn/Styles feud that put TNA on the map in '02 were both pretty straight-forward spotfests. No blood, and the two were causing each other so much damage week-in and week-out. Why no bloodshed? Why no violence? It was wrestling and high-flying, and...that was it. The feud was great up until the very end.

[Guest]

austin basically assaults and costs hart mathces every week. their 2nd fight is a straight up brawl, the exact opposite of their ss96 encounter. did this bother you? and mane some of your examples as well.

I can't think of any right now, but the I Quit match at WM was supposed to be an all out brawl with what had happened in weeks prior. It makes perfect sense.

[Guest messiahtype]

austin basically assaults and costs hart mathces every week. their 2nd fight is a straight up brawl, the exact opposite of their ss96 encounter. did this bother you? and mane some of your examples as well.

I can't think of any right now, but the I Quit match at WM was supposed to be an all out brawl with what had happened in weeks prior. It makes perfect sense.

 

i know, i was complimenting how the match made perfect sense with the storyline. while savage/steamboat didnt.

[World's Worst Man 0]

Misawa no-selling/fighting through Kawada's corner kicks in their 6/3/94 match. The only flaw in the match.

[Guest messiahtype]

Misawa no-selling/fighting through Kawada's corner kicks in their 6/3/94 match. The only flaw in the match.

do you sell japanese wrestling? i havent seen as much as i would like to.

[Special K 0]

Misawa no-selling/fighting through Kawada's corner kicks in their 6/3/94 match. The only flaw in the match.

 

It supposedly mirrors an earlier Jumbo/Misawa match where Misawa is destroying him in the corner and Jumbo just no-sells and lariats the shit out of him, establishing Misawa as a fiery youngster, but Jumbo as still 'the man'. Now, years later, Kawada is the fiery newcomer and Misawa is 'the man'. At least that's what I've read. It DOES look silly though. Those are some of the nastiest kicks Kawada has ever delivered, and that's saying something.

 

I HATE the finish to Mankind/Michaels Mindgames. A cheap DQ, that I've heard rumored was changed on the fly.

 

And a repeated thing that really bugs me: Low Ki's been in a bunch of really good matches. I absolutely hate it when Low Ki picks them up for the Ki Krusher and then just runs them into the corner. Like hitting your shoulder on the turnbuckle is going to hurt more than one of the nastiest finishers in wrestling.

It would be different if he hit it Oklahoma Stampede style, but he just runs them into the corner, and sort of drops them.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

I HATE the finish to Mankind/Michaels Mindgames. A cheap DQ, that I've heard rumored was changed on the fly.

Urban myth.

 

It's not a match that I find great, and it took me three or four attempts to watch it all the way through without falling asleep, but what I hate about the Bulldog vs. Shawn Michaels match at the KotR in 1996 is how Bulldog works over Shawn really well for 10-12 minutes only for Shawn to shrug it all off and win after only a couple of moves and a terrible looking superkick.

[snuffbox 0]

Tully Blanchard squealing 'YES!' instead of 'I QUIT' in his Starrcade match with Magnum.

[Guest netslob]

good point. i've never heard of a "Yes Match".

[10 Pounds 0]

As much as I like Bobby Heenan, I really hate him saying "Whose side is he on ?" before the Hogan turn.

[BorneAgain 0]

Dibiase getting eliminated early in the 92 Rumble, especially as they could have made an early story in the match of him trying to go the distance like he did two years prior. Him going neck and neck with Flair until the halfway point could have been fun.

[Timmy8271 0]

Sting's no selling, The length and the finish killed Sting/Flair from the 1st clash for me.

[Guest messiahtype]

I HATE the finish to Mankind/Michaels Mindgames. A cheap DQ, that I've heard rumored was changed on the fly.

Urban myth.

 

It's not a match that I find great, and it took me three or four attempts to watch it all the way through without falling asleep, but what I hate about the Bulldog vs. Shawn Michaels match at the KotR in 1996 is how Bulldog works over Shawn really well for 10-12 minutes only for Shawn to shrug it all off and win after only a couple of moves and a terrible looking superkick.

 

surprisingly, i've never seen the mankind/hbk match. it gets so pimped on the net though, that its ridicolous. ive heard some people refer to that as a top 10 match ever. regarding bulldog, that's typical shawn. he somehow gets away with it, even though it basically negates anything your opponenet did previously. i'll never foget jericho giving michaels, the walls of jericho, a vertical suplex, a belly to back suplex, a backbreaker, and a chinlock with the knee placed in the back, all in successon snd michaels does 2 nip-upds in a 3 minute span.(keep in mind this is surgically repaired back michales) embarrassing.

[World's Worst Man 0]

Steamboat's selling of the leg in Flair & Steamboat's 2/3 falls match was lacking at various points.

 

The execution in Toyota vs. Yamada from August 15 1992 was sloppy in certain spots. Even moreso in Toyota/Yamada vs. Kansai/Ozaki from November 26 1992, even though it was still a better match than the former.

 

A couple of spots were missed/awkward in Misawa vs. Jumbo from September 1 1990. Nothing overly important, just something I noticed.

[FroGG_NeaL 0]

As much as I like Bobby Heenan, I really hate him saying "Whose side is he on ?" before the Hogan turn.

 

 

I'm sure I've said this before, but it makes perfect sense.

 

Whether Hogan was a hell or face, or whether Heenan was a heel or face, Heenan always hated Hogan.

 

He hates the dude in real life, and he's always been against him as an announcer or manager.

 

It's like one of the longest fueds ever, Heenan never trusted Hogan in any way, so it makes sense that he would question his loyalty here, like he had always done.

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

As much as I like Bobby Heenan, I really hate him saying "Whose side is he on ?" before the Hogan turn.

 

 

I'm sure I've said this before, but it makes perfect sense.

 

Whether Hogan was a hell or face, or whether Heenan was a heel or face, Heenan always hated Hogan.

 

He hates the dude in real life, and he's always been against him as an announcer or manager.

 

It's like one of the longest fueds ever, Heenan never trusted Hogan in any way, so it makes sense that he would question his loyalty here, like he had always done.

 

You're absolutely right in principle, but I doubt this was common knowledge in 96 without the IWC.

[Coffin Surfer 0]

The corner spot is THE BEST most defining moment of 6/3/94, it's the climax of their entire fued for crying out loud!

 

Thanks to the neck injury, Kawada had pushed Misawa further than he ever has before, resulting in a stalemate. They have the big staredown and Kawada gets the jump on Misawa and they fuck with the crowd by having him go down and get his head knocked around in the corner. For a few seconds it looks like he's fucked until Misawa does what he's done so many times before, rise up and destroy Kawada for no other reason than he's simply the better man. Kawada got the early advantage but in the long run he can't hang with Misawa and keep him down. Misawa is that superior to him. It's the whole point of the damn fued! Kawada can have all the heart in the world, all the luck in the world, cheat like a mother fucker, have the drop on Misawa and he'll still lose because Misawa is simply that much better. The corner spot is the one of many graphic representations of this storyline but it's perhaps the most poweful and memorable. 6/3/94 is dick without it. (you heard me.)

 

And for fuck's sake, Misawa blocks the kicks before coming back!

 

"It supposedly mirrors an earlier Jumbo/Misawa match where Misawa is destroying him in the corner and Jumbo just no-sells and lariats the shit out of him, establishing Misawa as a fiery youngster, but Jumbo as still 'the man'. "

 

Hard to say. Misawa and Kawada obviously played with imagery from the Jumbo/Tenryu matches throughout their fued. The short/pudgy Kawada wearing his former leader's colors and using his Powerbomb/kicks where as the tall Misawa uses Jumbo's elbows and wears his elbow pad.

 

Is the corner spot a play off Jumbo/Misawa 9/90? Not likely as Jumbo was a heel in this match, knocking the young face back into his role. 6/3/94 is the face rallying to put away his toughest opponent. The execution of both spots is vastly different as well. It's possible but it's just too vague of a connection.

 

"Now, years later, Kawada is the fiery newcomer and Misawa is 'the man'."

 

Uh No. Kawada was far from a new comer. Him and Misawa were peers as far as wrestling experience. Kawada was his long time tag partner turned jealous, grumpy rival.

[Guest wildpegasus]

As much as I like Bobby Heenan, I really hate him saying "Whose side is he on ?" before the Hogan turn.

 

 

I'm sure I've said this before, but it makes perfect sense.

 

Whether Hogan was a hell or face, or whether Heenan was a heel or face, Heenan always hated Hogan.

 

He hates the dude in real life, and he's always been against him as an announcer or manager.

 

It's like one of the longest fueds ever, Heenan never trusted Hogan in any way, so it makes sense that he would question his loyalty here, like he had always done.

 

I've heard that Hogan and Heenan were great friends in real life. Hogan even thanked Heenan telling him that he'd never be quite the star he was if it wasn't for him.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Goldberg interfering in Guerrero / Lesnar

[The Amazing Rando 0]

Goldberg interfering in Guerrero / Lesnar

 

 

Luckily it didn't play into the finish and it's pretty much erased from mind by the clps they show of it.

[randomguy 0]

It's not a match that I find great, and it took me three or four attempts to watch it all the way through without falling asleep, but what I hate about the Bulldog vs. Shawn Michaels match at the KotR in 1996 is how Bulldog works over Shawn really well for 10-12 minutes only for Shawn to shrug it all off and win after only a couple of moves and a terrible looking superkick.

 

You just described almost every Shawn Michaels match ever.

[World's Worst Man 0]

Misawa no-selling/fighting through Kawada's corner kicks in their 6/3/94 match. The only flaw in the match.

 

It supposedly mirrors an earlier Jumbo/Misawa match where Misawa is destroying him in the corner and Jumbo just no-sells and lariats the shit out of him, establishing Misawa as a fiery youngster, but Jumbo as still 'the man'. Now, years later, Kawada is the fiery newcomer and Misawa is 'the man'. At least that's what I've read. It DOES look silly though. Those are some of the nastiest kicks Kawada has ever delivered, and that's saying something.

 

I've heard that as well. I don't think it's playing off the previous match per se, as much as it's just a gimmick to use in the later stages of a match to cue a comeback. Whatever convoluted reasoning someone wants to come up with (I don't mean you), I still don't dig late match no-selling, unless something happened during the match, or some common-knowledge is present to explain it.

[alfdogg 0]

Iron Man match at Judgment Day 2000, when UT attacks HHH at the end, resulting in DQ. So, how does HHH win the title, exactly?

[bob_barron 0]

Because the match was tied 5-5, and the DQ gave him the match 6-5.

[alfdogg 0]

I know that. I mean if the match is decided on a DQ, then why did the title change hands.

[Just John 0]

Because IM's are won by the most total falls, no matter how you accumulate them.

 

Anyway, another puro example to look at... Misawa/Kobashi 1/20/97:

 

As a big fan of both guys, I really hate to bash what many call their best match together, but I absolutely hate the finish to this one. The match is damn near perfect until the last 15 minutes or so. It drops to just great when Misawa starts no-selling the vicious arm-work, but still no major complaints (because hey, it's Misawa) until the final sequence. I know Kobashi's the ulitmate "never say die" fighting spirit kind of guy, but him kicking out of the TD91, then standing back up after the TS85 completely ruined the match for me. It didn't help that the real finish was a freaking running elbow with the injured arm. So you basically discredit Misawa's two killer moves back-to-back just so you can piss all over the psychology? Nuts to that. 10/21/97 forever.

[Gert T 0]

I know some people loved the psychology of it, but in that IM match at Judgment Day, I really didn't care for HHH getting the DQ with the chair to get a quick pin right after. It was unique, but he still didn't get any net positive result out of it.

[FroGG_NeaL 0]

As much as I like Bobby Heenan, I really hate him saying "Whose side is he on ?" before the Hogan turn.

 

 

I'm sure I've said this before, but it makes perfect sense.

 

Whether Hogan was a hell or face, or whether Heenan was a heel or face, Heenan always hated Hogan.

 

He hates the dude in real life, and he's always been against him as an announcer or manager.

 

It's like one of the longest fueds ever, Heenan never trusted Hogan in any way, so it makes sense that he would question his loyalty here, like he had always done.

 

I've heard that Hogan and Heenan were great friends in real life. Hogan even thanked Heenan telling him that he'd never be quite the star he was if it wasn't for him.

 

 

For real?

 

They might be good friends, but still.

 

Throughout Hogan's entire career, WWF to WCW, Heenan was on commentary dissin' him, or managing people fighting him.

 

So anyone who followed the shows would know that.

 

Not to mention Heenan always badmouthing Hogan in the Apter Mags and shit.

 

Plus, Heenan yelled,"I told you! I told you! You can't trust Hulk hogan. I've never liked him!" and other things on multiple shows right after that.

 

I know one time, tony just said, "That you have Bobby, that you have." and went back to babbling about nonsense.

[Guest wildpegasus]

Because IM's are won by the most total falls, no matter how you accumulate them.

 

Anyway, another puro example to look at... Misawa/Kobashi 1/20/97:

 

As a big fan of both guys, I really hate to bash what many call their best match together, but I absolutely hate the finish to this one. The match is damn near perfect until the last 15 minutes or so. It drops to just great when Misawa starts no-selling the vicious arm-work, but still no major complaints (because hey, it's Misawa) until the final sequence. I know Kobashi's the ulitmate "never say die" fighting spirit kind of guy, but him kicking out of the TD91, then standing back up after the TS85 completely ruined the match for me. It didn't help that the real finish was a freaking running elbow with the injured arm. So you basically discredit Misawa's two killer moves back-to-back just so you can piss all over the psychology? Nuts to that. 10/21/97 forever.

 

I'd have to disagree with you there. I thought 1/20/97 was signifigantly better than 10/97. For me anyway. It had a much, much better flow to it.

 

The ending is terrific. I loved Kobashi "kicking" out of the TD91. It in no way tarnished the move. It's not as if Kobashi kicked out with mega force and than stood up to do some jumping jacks. He only got up through sheer fighting spirit. Things like that are needed in wrestling because it's such a monumental, memoarable and emotional event. Those are the kind of things that stay etched in our heads throughout time and become classic memories.

Back to the selling again -- Not only Kobashi visually sell the move but he puts it over yet again by going down to Misawa's elbow. It's not really Misawa's elbow that puts Kobashi down but it's the punishment beforehand; specifically the TD91 which he is still feeling the effects of. Kobashi had used up almost everything to kick out and only had a little bit of whereaboutness left to him. Misawa's elbow was the last straw.

 

I think it might be easier to think of it in terms of a Street Fighter II like video game. You hit your enemy whith your most powerful move which you think will defeat him with. However, to your surprise.he still has a couple of hit points left after taking the hit. You than proceed to drain those last hit points with some kind of lesser move which finishes the job. Same deal with Kobashi vs Misawa.