Gas Price Check...

[EricMM 0]

 

Is that in reference to "numbnuts"?

[Dandy 0]

Eric, I use all energy star products in my home, including the low watt bulbs. I notch the temperature on my central h/a 2 degrees higher when it is warm outside, and 2 degrees cooler when it is colder. I shut off every light not in use and all lights when I am gone. I unplug unused devices until I am ready to use them. I try to not make small, unnecessary trips here and there so I can combine trips when it is feasible. Now that I finally got a better job in town, I will be biking to work on days it is not raining. I do all of this to save money as well as do my part for the environment. It's not like I am rolling down the street in a jacked up SUV with the windows down, blasting the a/c, and hauling excavators behind me for the hell of it as I chop down as many trees as possible.

 

However, I don't feel the need to preach to others on here and banter every day how we need mass transit yesterday, not today. We need a better system. Great. Is it doable everywhere? No. I am in a town of 55,000, and our mass transit sucks. There is no money to build what we need, and no available place to build it. The best we can do is get more buses going, and our current buses are only used by the poor and smelly. You may be okay with inconveniencing yourself for two hours to get where you are going when you could have gotten there in 10 by driving, but I am not going to do that to save three leaves off a tree.

 

If "it's too hard," or "it's too expensive" is not an obstacle for a free-thinker like yourself, then do your part for the environment and come up with these ways it can be done and start mailing it to the cities and towns.

[Perfxion 0]

1: Its a fake energy crisis that started in March that was NOT a problem a week before. There isn't a massive oil shortage. There is a massive price gauge going on worldwide. How could gas magically go up 80 dollars a barrel when NONE of these "problems" were even out there in December. We are in the top 4 in oil, top country in coal, top 3 with natural gas, and could off shore to sure up the problems coming from the middle east. But we are getting screwed by big oil, OPEC, the gov, lack of refineries, tree huggers, and that we are not allowed to drill off shore 150 miles from the Cali cost, but China is currently drilling 60 miles from the coast.

Get your head out of the fucking sand, numbnuts, and do some very basic research on peak oil.

 

For crying out loud.

 

Then, check out G-L-O-B-A-L W-A-R-M-I-N-G.

 

 

 

Lets try this on civil:

 

peak oil is unknown because we do NOT know the TOTAL WORLD SUPPLY. Maybe its already past, maybe we have another 300 years who the fuck knows. Since it is just a guess its foolish to go by it.

 

I have done basic research and yet nothing explains these four problems.

--tankers in the gulf are not porting because we have too much oil in the crude oil supply tanks on land.

--refineries are at max to meet demand and are backlog from the excessive oil on the market.

--refined products are full and those tanks are not emptying fast enough because of demand is not there

--YET GAS IS STILL UP BEYOUND the starting point of this mess?

Basic supply and demand law says if the demand is lower than the supply, then the price goes DOWN not UP!

 

Thus my statement yet again, its a fake scarce issue.

 

Global Warming is real, but hard to pin point the whole auto industry(the point of this thread) since things like emissions laws have our cars cleaner than most cars around the world and yet we are the bad guys? The two countries that house 1/3(China and India) of the world population are pretty much killing our world with their 19th century style industries and no emissions cars and yet you are bent out of shape of someone driving a v8 SUV in Texas? I get 20mpg in a Jeep Grand Cherokee and I am really happy about that. I could get something that would be better mpgs. But I rather not have payments just to off set the high gas. And I not going with another used car that would still have me paying more than what I am selling because this whole fucking retarded idea that "SUVs are the problem!!!".

 

You want these mass transit systems that would bankrupt cities just to be "green". Multi billion to trillion dollar ideals that just won't fly. Are you going to pay for it to go into Houston when you live 1500 miles away? Are you going to use it when it would serve no purpose anyways? Are you expecting people to add 4 to 6 hours in their day for travel just to do simple task like drive to work? You seem so unreasonable about things because you will not listen to people trying to kindly tell you that it just won't work like the east coast because everyone and everything is way more spread out.

[EricMM 0]

1) Peak Oil: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hirsch_report

 

2) Global Warming not caused by cars: http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/emissions...s/08_Energy.pdf

(See transportation)

(US cars may emit less SULFER than the rest of the world, but we certainly don't have carbon capture technology on our cars. And cars in Europe on average get 44 mpg and our cars on average get 22 so obviously theirs are better. Becaues they're not behemoths.

 

3) Refining capacity has not been clamped down by the tree huggers, it has been allowed to remain where it is today by oil companies who have zero incentive to refine MORE gasoline, since that would just lower the price. All the companies have been asking for (and I have been to the congressional hearings where the mentioned this) is the right to add onto existing refineries without having to bring them up to current code. They certainly would have to build new refineries up to current pollution code, so they have zero intent on doing that. Most importantly, again, Big Oil does not profit from more refining, it spends on more refining. But bottlenecks serve to increase cost on a resource that we as Americans have made ourselves dependant on. We're not going to not buy gas.

 

In case you noticed, gas has gone down ~20-30 cents since reports came out the U.S. had finally had enough and demand went down. Granted, it won't go down MUCH, since there's no incentive for it to. We'll buy gas right around four dollars, once it goes over, we panic and buy less. Yes, speculation has driven up the price. But they know as well as anyone that they're selling a product that is becoming rarer and more expensive to produce around the world.

 

4) China and India are just chasing the American dream. They're copycats, and why not. Here's a hint: comparing the percentage of Chinese people with cars and American peoples with cars throughout history, they're still where we were in the 1920's. Almost no one in China has cars. But they will, and soon. India just came out with a car that costs around $2,500. It's going to sell like mad. Either we as the world leader in car culture lead the way QUICKLY in the direction of cars powered by renewable sources, or this is going to get out of hand rather quickly. FYI 20mpg is ridiculous. I'm not telling you to buy another car, however, just to get more gas milage. But SUVs absolutely are a problem. They have a different legal status because they're "light trucks" but they certainly do not get purchased solely or even mostly for their industrial and towing capacity.

 

5) In regards to mass transit, obviously the boondocks of TX should not be paying for Houston to build a lightrail system. In fact, I was mostly talking about a sound bus system. But light rail is good for cities, and we CERTAINLY need a train system again to replace the utterly doomed air travel system. But again, you keep on harping about the cost of action and I ask you, do you accept or understand the costs of INACTION?

 

 

[At Home 0]

They're not chasing the American dream. I'm surprised that you'd say that. Very surprised. They're industrializing. That's entirely different.

[EricMM 0]

In regards to cars, yes, they are chasing the American car dream. Bigger, better, faster.

 

They're certainly not emulating the European model. But gas in China is subsidized and cheaper even than it is here.

 

I just hope people realize how utterly fucked we'd (we'll) be when as large a percentage of Chinese people have cars as Americans.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Eric, I sincerely hope and think that won't happen, particularly if gas gets really expensive with the higher demand. Many Chinese live out in enormous, dense cities and cycling is very much a way of life in that country still, even with the rising demand for cars. Not to mention that frugality is a way of life and a highly valued cultural norm in that society, so I can't see many Chinese going with the more expensive option.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

Maybe by the time the Chinese people are all driving cars, they'll at least be hybrids as the standard model.

 

 

[EricMM 0]

That, Marvin, doesn't matter. I don't care if they get 60mpg, if the Chinese drive cars like us, oil will be $200 per barrel and their carbon footprint will be enormous. And if they start using CTL to get their fuel, like we're talking about doing, another thing they'd copy, I think the smog would reach Cali...

 

VX, understand what I mean. I agree that the bicycle was a staple to them, but they are trying to live like we do. They want BIG CARS. And their economy is improving annually...

[Guest Tzar Lysergic]

Hey, and they have cheap gas. From the same oil. We're getting ripped off.

[SuperJerk 0]

[Guest Vitamin X]

Hey, and they have cheap gas. From the same oil. We're getting ripped off.

 

OPEC having better relations with the Chinese government than we do has nothing to do it, I'm sure.

[EricMM 0]

It probably doesn't.

 

The Chinese govt. subsidizes it. I'm sure they use less gas than we do, so its easier, I suppose.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

 

Forget air pressure, we need these new "airless" tires which dont have to deal with air pressure. No more blowouts either which means fewer accidents.

 

 

[Guest Smues]

Want cheaper gas? Move to another city

ANCHORAGE TOPS NATION: Prices in many major cities have dropped below $4 a gallon.

 

By BETH BRAGG

[email protected]

 

Published: August 8th, 2008 02:08 AM

Last Modified: August 8th, 2008 11:56 AM

 

You just got off the phone with your brother-in-law in Portland, Ore., who said he's finally taking the family on vacation now that gas is down to $3.89 a gallon.

 

You head to your neighborhood gas station in Anchorage -- and pay $4.37 a gallon.

 

As the sky-high cost of crude oil begins to come back down to earth, gas prices in major cities around the United States are falling daily.

 

Except here.

 

While the per-gallon price of gas in Portland dropped 33 cents in the past month, it fell only two pennies here in Anchorage, according to statistics compiled daily by the Web site gasbuddy.com.

 

It's down 29 cents a gallon, to $4.07, in Seattle. Nine cents, to $4.02, in Boise. Thirty cents, to $4.29, in San Francisco. Thirty-two cents, to $3.62, in Minneapolis.

 

On Thursday afternoon, Anchorage had the highest gas price of any major city in America, according to the Web site. Higher than San Francisco. Higher than Honolulu (although that city was running neck-and-neck with us through most of the day).

 

So as you watch the dollars add up as you fill your tank, you might ponder the reasons why gas prices are defying national trends:

 

• Must be the high cost of shipping things to Alaska.

 

Wrong. According to the state Department of Revenue, 95 percent of all gasoline consumed in Anchorage and the rest of the state is refined right here in Alaska. No shipping costs, except those involved with trucking it from refineries in Nikiski, North Pole and Valdez.

 

• Gotta be those darn taxes.

 

Wrong. At eight cents a gallon, Alaska's motor fuel tax is the lowest in the nation. If you want to blame the government for high gas prices, go to California. The state tax on gas there is 56.5 cents a gallon, the highest in the nation.

 

• Surely there's a conspiracy among producers, wholesalers or retailers.

 

Don't be so sure. The state attorney general, which investigated that very thing less than 10 years ago, has received no evidence of collusion. The 1999 investigation, which lasted more than two years, ended after the Department of Law failed to find sufficient evidence that anti-trust laws were violated.

 

ADVERTISEMENT

 

'RED FLAGS'

 

So far, the state hasn't launched another investigation to see if illegal practices are keeping Anchorage and Alaska gas prices so high. But that could change.

 

"If something doesn't happen to correct itself soon, it's going to raise some red flags for us," said Ed Sniffen, a consumer protection lawyer for the state.

 

"I don't know why we haven't dropped to less than $4 a gallon. We should get there soon. When I saw that Seattle dropped below $4, I thought for sure we'd be right on their coattails, but boy, the market was slow to react. And I start to raise my eyebrows."

 

He's not alone.

 

Denise Harris, a spokeswoman for the AAA Auto Club, said it's curious that Anchorage prices aren't falling as fast as they are in the Lower 48.

 

"It seems to happen every time prices start falling elsewhere. Alaska's doesn't fall. It's not surprising, but that doesn't make it right," she said. "The funny thing is (Alaska prices) are pretty reactive on the way up, but slower on the way down."

 

SOME THEORIES

 

Why? We asked, and all we got were guesses, albeit educated ones. Most involve that familiar Economics 101 rule of supply and demand.

 

• Paul Laird, general manager of the Alaska Support Industry Alliance: "My guess is that demand up here has not fallen as precipitously as in the Lower 48 and therefore retailers are not feeling as compelled to drop prices as quickly. That's capitalism."

 

Johanna Bales, state Department of Revenue: "We get complaints all the time. We tell them it's a fair market and people charge what they think the market can bear. If we're getting most of our (gas) from in-state refineries, you've gotta look at our salaries, which are generally higher. But really, I have no idea. There's no good answer other than it's what the market bears."

 

Bales says she hears often from consumers who repeat the answers they get from the guy at the gas pump or the driver delivering home heating fuel.

 

"A lot of time distributors will say, 'It must be the tax.' Alaska's tax is the lowest in the nation, and there's no tax at all on home heating fuel," she said.

 

• Kip Knudson, spokesman for Tesoro Alaska, whose Nikiski refinery supplies much of the gas pumped in Southcentral: "My chief economist tells me it's because small markets generally respond to price changes slower. And Alaska is a tiny, tiny market when it comes to motor fuels.

 

"People don't understand that it's a free market. It's not a regulated industry. ... It can only be explained by market forces."

 

• Tom Kloza, chief oil analyst for the Oil Price Information Service: "I'm not sure why the retail numbers in Alaska are so much above (the) Lower 48 range. While U.S. demand is down on a nationwide basis it may be that some of the energy-active states have stronger demand. This is the case in Texas, albeit to a small degree.

 

"... I'm not familiar with any particular global or local problem that has kept Alaska prices so high. Needless to say, it's a market that doesn't have many of the high-volume chains (that operate) in the Lower 48."

 

• Matt Berman, an economist for UAA's Institute of Social and Economic Research, when interviewed recently by The Associated Press, chalked up high prices to Alaska's small market and high shipping costs.

 

A lack of competition lets in-state refineries charge gas stations at a rate close to what the stations would pay for importing gas, he said. And because the price to ship gas from the Lower 48 is steep, the refineries can sell at a price that approaches what stations would pay for imported gas, Berman said.

 

• Sniffen, the consumer protection lawyer for the state: "People say, wait a minute, it only costs this much to get oil, this much to refine it, this much to get it to the station, so how come we're paying so much more? There's no requirement that any of the people in that chain can only make so much profit. There's no law saying you can only make so much profit in America.

 

"... There's a fundamental misperception that retailers should only sell for what it cost them and a little bit more. No law says they have to do that. You have to rely on the market to do that."

 

PARALLEL PRICING

 

The only thing the law can do, Sniffen said, is punish collusion -- an illegal pact between competitors to set their prices at an agreed level.

 

He doesn't know of any state that regulates gasoline prices. Hawaii tried it, he said, but the law was repealed quickly after most or all retailers priced their gas at the maximum allowed by the state.

 

Often what consumers think is that collusion is actually a legal practice called parallel pricing, Sniffen said. It's particularly common thing among gas retailers.

 

"Prices are displayed for everyone to see, so you get parallel pricing, which happens when one station owner says, 'Joe down the street raised his prices, I'm gonna raise mine.' There's no collusion there. He just steps out in the street and looks at the sign. That's not illegal. People try to match other people's prices all the time."

 

I fucking knew our prices were dropping slower than everyone else. I wouldn't complain about it, if they didn't rise as fast as everyone else's.

 

[Guest Vitamin X]

Portland also has the highest percentage of bike commuters in the country (link) and one of the highest public transit usage in the country as well. Less demand, most likely due to more people trying to drive less in a city that can support it. Since you just went on and on in this thread about how people up there can't curttail demand due to driving distance and the like, of course the price of gas is going to go down much slower.

 

In short: Car drivers shouldn't hate, but love, bicycle and other non-auto commuters considering we're literally saving you guys gas.

[bob_barron 0]

This is current events. It's all snarky comments. And I thought CE was supposed to be left alone anyway.

 

It got down to $4.19 here which is nice, but it's also sad that gas going down to $4.19 is now considered nice

[Perfxion 0]

$3.59 is the average around here. But one pump(Chavez's shit) 3.42 a gallon in Houston.

[Dandy 0]

Just saw on gaspricewatch.com that it is $3.31 in Carlisle, PA, right outside Harrisburg.

[Guest Tzar Lysergic]

I don't care if it's squeezed from the unborn; if the gas is under two bucks, I'm buying.

[EricMM 0]

bob, 909 obviously didn't get that memo...

[snuffbox 0]

Why can't you guys just take this as seriously as he does?

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

I fucking knew our prices were dropping slower than everyone else. I wouldn't complain about it, if they didn't rise as fast as everyone else's.

 

I dont want to hear it. You get $1,654 a year in Oil Royalties for living in Alaska.

 

theres a plan..Offshore drilling states should give residents an oil royalty check..everyone would want drilling then.

 

 

[Guest Smues]

I fucking knew our prices were dropping slower than everyone else. I wouldn't complain about it, if they didn't rise as fast as everyone else's.

 

I dont want to hear it. You get $1,654 a year in Oil Royalties for living in Alaska.

 

theres a plan..Offshore drilling states should give residents an oil royalty check..everyone would want drilling then.

 

Actually this year it's going to be over $2,000. And yes the PFD is nice, and I'm not really bitching about it, especially being used to having high gas prices anyway. But it's just annoying seeing prices rise as fast as every where but drop a lot slower. And the PFD is nice, but we also have a nice high cost of living and housing.

[EricMM 0]

WTF is Alaska going to do when the oil runs out?

 

Start panning for gold again?

 

[Guest Smues]

Natural gas. Plus the natives have a giant ass zinc mine, and are fighting like mad to open Pebble Mine (massive gold supply there I guess, and other materials. It's a HUGE environmental fight up here, TV commercials and radio ads all the time.) After that then we just wither away and die I guess. Oh but the PFD isn't based on any current oil money. It was when it was first created, now we just get paid based on how the fund (something like 38 billion dollars) does in the market.

[Guest]

bob, 909 obviously didn't get that memo...

I'm not allowed to ask you not to be such an asshole? There's nothing to be mean about.

 

I didn't give you a warning or nothin'...

[snuffbox 0]

If I had the strenuous job of mod, I'd be reminding everybody of it right about now.

[Guest]

I know, it's really hard.

 

This hour of being on the internet has been the roughest part of my day.

[Mik 0]

I was driving home today and noticed gas just slightly under $4.00. That's the first time I remember it being sub-4 in a very long time.