NBA Preseason Thread

[Kurt Angle Mark 0]

Chris Kaman signs a 5 year 52.5 Million dollar deal with Clippers

 

The Clippers did not pick up the third year option on Yaroslav Korolev which will make him a free agent at the end of the season

[naiwf 0]

I just heard the Knicks cut Jalen Rose. Why cut a guy in the final year of his contract especially when you traded him for an expiring contract guy last year? I hate the Knicks.

[Brett Favre 0]

They made that trade for Larry's weird outbursts and because they got a pick out of it. There's no point in keeping Rose when he won't play. Plus this insures us that we won't trade him for another big contract. Isiah can't win these days.

[alfdogg 0]

Not that surprising. Isiah ran Jalen Rose out of Indiana, and now he's run him out of New York.

 

So...Jalen Rose is without a team...and Quentin Richardson is the opening night starter. I had trouble keeping a straight face, too.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

They made that trade for Larry's weird outbursts and because they got a pick out of it. There's no point in keeping Rose when he won't play. Plus this insures us that we won't trade him for another big contract. Isiah can't win these days.

 

Ah, I missed basketball season. There's nothing better than seeing Isiah do something crazy and then having CW on here within minutes to defend it.

[Brett Favre 0]

The last thing we need is another offensive weapon. Richardson is twenty times the defender Rose is.

[Guest]

You trade for Rose, you keep him. I don't see much reason to do this.

 

It's not like they won't be paying him.

 

On a totally unrelated note, Andrew Bynum made big progress this preseason. He's going to get quite a bit of playing time.

[Brett Favre 0]

They made that trade for Larry's weird outbursts and because they got a pick out of it. There's no point in keeping Rose when he won't play. Plus this insures us that we won't trade him for another big contract. Isiah can't win these days.

 

Ah, I missed basketball season. There's nothing better than seeing Isiah do something crazy and then having CW on here within minutes to defend it.

 

But seriously, what does he lost by cutting him? Atleast by cutting him it gets rid of any urges to trade him away for Darius Miles or some other player with a big ass contract. Or am I wrong in thinking that? He's not going to play anyway.

[naiwf 0]

They made that trade for Larry's weird outbursts and because they got a pick out of it. There's no point in keeping Rose when he won't play. Plus this insures us that we won't trade him for another big contract. Isiah can't win these days.

 

Ah, I missed basketball season. There's nothing better than seeing Isiah do something crazy and then having CW on here within minutes to defend it.

 

But seriously, what does he lost by cutting him? Atleast by cutting him it gets rid of any urges to trade him away for Darius Miles or some other player with a big ass contract. Or am I wrong in thinking that? He's not going to play anyway.

 

He lost millions of dollars in Rose's salary and minutes for the rookies last year. You defended the trade at the time because Rose was an upgrade and you thought the guys like Lee and Nate would still play. As I said it would turn out, all they did was lose out because Rose played 30+ minutes per night last year and they ended up cutting him anyway. Only an idiot ends up paying a year and a half of a monster salary for a draft pick all while giving up someone who came off of the books at the end of last season.

 

In simplest terms they took on salary last year, they owe Rose his money this year, they lost developmental time last year for guys who needed it and they have NOTHING to show for it right now. How the hell is preventing someone from making a 3rd shitty move bring praised as a good move?

[alfdogg 0]

Jalen Rose can play the 1, 2, and 3, is good for 20+ points on any given night and is a very good passer.

 

Quentin Richardson shoots 8 threes a night, and pounds on his headband.

 

I'll take the first guy.

[Brett Favre 0]

They made that trade for Larry's weird outbursts and because they got a pick out of it. There's no point in keeping Rose when he won't play. Plus this insures us that we won't trade him for another big contract. Isiah can't win these days.

 

Ah, I missed basketball season. There's nothing better than seeing Isiah do something crazy and then having CW on here within minutes to defend it.

 

But seriously, what does he lost by cutting him? Atleast by cutting him it gets rid of any urges to trade him away for Darius Miles or some other player with a big ass contract. Or am I wrong in thinking that? He's not going to play anyway.

 

He lost millions of dollars in Rose's salary and minutes for the rookies last year. You defended the trade at the time because Rose was an upgrade and you thought the guys like Lee and Nate would still play. As I said it would turn out, all they did was lose out because Rose played 30+ minutes per night last year and they ended up cutting him anyway. Only an idiot ends up paying a year and a half of a monster salary for a draft pick all while giving up someone who came off of the books at the end of last season.

 

In simplest terms they took on salary last year, they owe Rose his money this year, they lost developmental time last year for guys who needed it and they have NOTHING to show for it right now. How the hell is preventing someone from making a 3rd shitty move bring praised as a good move?

 

Like I said before, he didn't take time away from them. The numbers even proved this, but once again you ignore them.

 

Secondly, they got a draft pick out of the trade, and this is a new year. He's not going to be in the rotation, so what's the point of keeping him? Would you rather have Balkman or Rose taking up minutes this year? Not to mention that you signed Jared Jeffries. Yes, last year we could have used him, but that's what it was, last year. We have two new players at the SF position, so there is no need for Jalen Rose.

 

And alf, like I said, Rose can't defend for shit. I mean seriously, he doesn't do anything on the defensive end of the court. Richardson defends, and rebounds well from his position, and it's not like he's going to be our starter for the rest of the year.

[alfdogg 0]

I never disputed your comments on Rose's defense. I just think you're overstating Richardson's worth a little bit. Maybe he's changed since being in Phoenix, but I never recall him doing much on the court other than standing out and shooting threes all day.

[naiwf 0]

Like I said before, he didn't take time away from them. The numbers even proved this, but once again you ignore them.

 

Secondly, they got a draft pick out of the trade, and this is a new year. He's not going to be in the rotation, so what's the point of keeping him? Would you rather have Balkman or Rose taking up minutes this year? Not to mention that you signed Jared Jeffries. Yes, last year we could have used him, but that's what it was, last year. We have two new players at the SF position, so there is no need for Jalen Rose.

 

And alf, like I said, Rose can't defend for shit. I mean seriously, he doesn't do anything on the defensive end of the court. Richardson defends, and rebounds well from his position, and it's not like he's going to be our starter for the rest of the year.

 

We didn't need to sign Jeffries or draft Balkman when you had a dude on the payroll making $ SEVENTEEN MILLION this year. That's just another example of Isiah's poor ability to manage what he has or have a little foresight to not get stuck in a situation where you can't trade Rose and essentially have to eat his contract. It's no different than trading for Francis when you already had him on the team, and Crawford in a similar situation.

[iggymcfly 0]

Can someone explain to me how anyone but the Heat can be the favorite to win the title this year? The predictions on ESPN.com have five people each picking the Spurs and Suns to win the title, four for the Mavs, and only two picking the Heat.

 

That just seems ridiculous to me. Dwyane Wade's 24 years old right now, and he was the best player in the league last year. Don't you think he'll be better this year? Duncan's in the twilight of his career, and if Dallas wasn't good enough to beat Miami last year, I don't know what will be different this time around.

 

I can at least see the "trendy sleeper" appeal with Phoenix since they haven't had Amare and Diaw in there together for a season yet, but I really don't understand how anyone but Miami can be the favorite. They're young (outside of Shaq), they're the defending champs, and they've got all the key pieces back from last year. What am I missing here?

[naiwf 0]

Can someone explain to me how anyone but the Heat can be the favorite to win the title this year? The predictions on ESPN.com have five people each picking the Spurs and Suns to win the title, four for the Mavs, and only two picking the Heat.

 

That just seems ridiculous to me. Dwyane Wade's 24 years old right now, and he was the best player in the league last year. Don't you think he'll be better this year? Duncan's in the twilight of his career, and if Dallas wasn't good enough to beat Miami last year, I don't know what will be different this time around.

 

I can at least see the "trendy sleeper" appeal with Phoenix since they haven't had Amare and Diaw in there together for a season yet, but I really don't understand how anyone but Miami can be the favorite. They're young (outside of Shaq), they're the defending champs, and they've got all the key pieces back from last year. What am I missing here?

 

Don't you know that Shaq, Payton and Zo aren't hungry or some such nonsense?

 

On a serious note, they should be huge favorites to at least make it to the Finals. I don't know why everyone keeps up with the assumption that the great teams in the West somehow benefit from killing each other in the postseason and should dance to the title at the end.

[Ripper 0]

I have to agree with the "why not cut rose" crowd. Edit...or guy as it seems.

 

He wasn't going to play and they were going to let his contract run out. So they got rid of him early instead of having him angry over his lack of minutes (which he has already been in the press about anyway) and causing any locker room problems. What reasons are there to keep him. They paid to keep him away from the team.

[naiwf 0]

The argument isn't so much whether to cut him or keep him, it's why bother bringing him in for that much money, give up some cap flexibility and minutes to get him only to cut him the following season. They could have completely wiped Antonio Davis' money by now, instead they owe Rose his money and won't get a cent of production for him.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

To expand on naiwf's post a little, Isiah's entire reign has been filled with moves like this. You open the paper, see what happened, and justify that it seemed like the right move on that day. Did they need Jalen Rose? Not really, so no harm in cutting him right? The thing is these moves don't happen in a vaccuum.

 

They paid for a half a season of Jalen last year, plus this year's salary. When you factor in the luxury tax, they paid $50 million for half a season of a washed-up player they didn't need. They were a go nowhere team and could have used those dollars and minutes in developing some younger talent.

[Guest]

WERE a go nowhere team? They still are a go nowhere team.

[Brett Favre 0]

Here's another thing you guys are misunderstanding.

 

JALEN ROSE DID NOT TAKE MINUTES AWAY FROM DAVID LEE AND NATE ROBINSON. In fact, when he came, Lee gained minutes, and with Marbury and Francis going down, so did Nate Robinson. So PLEASE, get your shit straight. And yes they did lose money or what not, but that's not a concern on the court. Really, who gives a shit.

[naiwf 0]

Talking to CW is like trying to gnaw through your own arm just because it itches. Obviously the Knicks are winners, Isiah is a genius, and Dolan is the best owner in sports.

[Brett Favre 0]

And you're still a retard because I just explained to you why it wasn't a bad move, and you still don't get it. He wasn't going to fucking play.

 

Jalen

 

Rose

 

Was

 

Not

 

Going

 

To

 

Play.

 

JALEN ROSE = NOT PLAYING THIS SEASON

JALEN ROSE = BEHIND Q-Rich, Jeffries, and now Balkman

JALEN ROSE = Expiring contract, so it's not like he had 5 years left.

 

nawif: Oh my! CW you silly bastard! You think the Knicks are the greatest!

 

 

"I wasn't going to be in the fucking rotation."

[Guest]

CW does have a good point. They aren't going to play him, so sign a young undrafted player and see if you can find something in him.

[naiwf 0]

Spending ~$40-50 million for a 4 month rent-a-player and a bullshit draft pick only makes sense to people like CW. The idea that the money lost doesn't effect the on court product is asinine.

 

The Knicks didn't need Rose when they got him and look like even bigger morons when they cut him loose because he was easily replaced by Jared F'n Jeffries and Renaldo Balkman.

[Smartly Pretty 0]

Can someone explain to me how anyone but the Heat can be the favorite to win the title this year? The predictions on ESPN.com have five people each picking the Spurs and Suns to win the title, four for the Mavs, and only two picking the Heat.

 

That just seems ridiculous to me. Dwyane Wade's 24 years old right now, and he was the best player in the league last year. Don't you think he'll be better this year? Duncan's in the twilight of his career, and if Dallas wasn't good enough to beat Miami last year, I don't know what will be different this time around.

 

I can at least see the "trendy sleeper" appeal with Phoenix since they haven't had Amare and Diaw in there together for a season yet, but I really don't understand how anyone but Miami can be the favorite. They're young (outside of Shaq), they're the defending champs, and they've got all the key pieces back from last year. What am I missing here?

 

Don't you know that Shaq, Payton and Zo aren't hungry or some such nonsense?

 

On a serious note, they should be huge favorites to at least make it to the Finals. I don't know why everyone keeps up with the assumption that the great teams in the West somehow benefit from killing each other in the postseason and should dance to the title at the end.

 

Lost in this over rating madness of the Mavs, Spurs and Suns are the Nets, who could actually be fucking awesome this year. The heat'll probably make the finals, but I imagine it'll be a tighter race then you two would hope.

 

that could be my fanboy talking.

[Brett Favre 0]

Spending ~$40-50 million for a 4 month rent-a-player and a bullshit draft pick only makes sense to people like CW. The idea that the money lost doesn't effect the on court product is asinine.

 

The Knicks didn't need Rose when they got him and look like even bigger morons when they cut him loose because he was easily replaced by Jared F'n Jeffries and Renaldo Balkman.

 

It's not your fucking money since you aren't going to the games, so why the hell would you care? If the money is what's bothering you, than maybe you like Dolan a hell of a lot more than I do (not that I like him, but still).

 

How are they morons for cutting a guy they don't need? One of the guys they have replacing him is a guy they got in the draft that came with him, so it wasn't a lose lose situation. All the trade was doing is delaying the expiring contract, while adding a draft pick. I'm glad they cut him so I don't hear your ass complaining coming mid February on how the Knicks might trade his expiring contract for fucking Zach Randolph or some shit like that.

[bobobrazil1984 0]

cutting him now was fine, the dumbass move was trading an expiring contract to get him in the first place.

[naiwf 0]

Spending ~$40-50 million for a 4 month rent-a-player and a bullshit draft pick only makes sense to people like CW. The idea that the money lost doesn't effect the on court product is asinine.

 

The Knicks didn't need Rose when they got him and look like even bigger morons when they cut him loose because he was easily replaced by Jared F'n Jeffries and Renaldo Balkman.

 

It's not your fucking money since you aren't going to the games, so why the hell would you care? If the money is what's bothering you, than maybe you like Dolan a hell of a lot more than I do (not that I like him, but still).

 

How are they morons for cutting a guy they don't need? One of the guys they have replacing him is a guy they got in the draft that came with him, so it wasn't a lose lose situation. All the trade was doing is delaying the expiring contract, while adding a draft pick. I'm glad they cut him so I don't hear your ass complaining coming mid February on how the Knicks might trade his expiring contract for fucking Zach Randolph or some shit like that.

 

Let's try this again. As long as the Knicks are a BILLION over the cap for the next 10 years they won't get any better. Nickel and dime draft picks that are thrown in in bad trades won't improve the team in the long run. Trading what amounts to $50 million and Antonio Davis for a few months of Jalen Rose's services and Renaldo Balkman is not a good move when they could have just let Davis walk at the end of last year, saved $17 million, and picked a no name like Balkman up as an undrafted free agent. If you think that's a good deal, then you're just completely hopeless when it comes to analyzing the moves the Knicks make.

 

Although thinking Rose was a good pickup in the first place, or that the Francis acquisition made sense, or that a passionless 14 & 7 for life Eddy Curry for 2 # 1's which turned out to be either Aldredge/Thomas/Bargnani/Roy/Foye etc + another # 1 was good for the team speak to your cluelessness as well.

 

In the entire tri-state area you're the ONLY Knicks fan who cheers every move Isiah makes, and for the life of me I can't understand how you can think that way given the results and the team that they can field now.

[Fökai 0]

Cutting Jalen Rose was fine - don't make an even dumber move of trading his expiring contract to a team to get another contract. I don't think there was anyone on the market who was willing to part with real talent to get Rose's contract, even foreseeing action at the deadline in February. They don't need draft picks with all of the money they have invested in the team already. Clear cap and start all over with your centerpieces, whomever Isiah or Dolan considers them to be.

 

Now, if they could explain why they traded for Rose in the first place...

[Precious Roy 0]

First of all, on what planet is Tim Duncan "approaching the twilight of his career"?!?!?! Am I the only one who saw him average like 30 and 15 against Dallas in the playoffs last year? He had a down year last season due to lingering foot trouble for much of the season. He's 30 years old.

 

If the "twilight of their career" theory holds to ANYONE it's the Heat, not the Spurs. Shaq is 34 and in an obvious decline. Alonzo Mourning is 36 and never a sure thing to be healthy with his kidney and assorted other ailments. Gary Payton is 38. And Dwayne Wade, as good as he is, has been logging heavy run between the playoffs and the world championships. He's been quoted as saying his legs feel like they're at midseason already during the pre-season. And it's set in stone that he'll miss around ten games with minor injuries. If D-Wade goes down the Heat are in MAJOR trouble.

 

I'd easily favor the Spurs over the Heat going into the season.

 

Onto Rose:

 

The way I see it is that Rose wasn't going to be in the rotation, and buying him out for like half his salary or whatever is preferable to leaving him off the 15 man roster while paying him for the entire year (what they did with Penny Hardaway last year), OR having him stew on the bench and cause a distraction. The absolute last thing the Knicks need is bad apples in the lockerroom, and while Jalen Rose isn't a bad guy, he's also not the type to be happy about riding the pine while he's still got some game.

 

Naiwf, in your intense efforts to diss Cena's Writer you're missing some key points about the Rose moves. When they traded for him it was done at the behest of Larry Brown, who felt he needed a veteran playmaker with Marbury injured. At the time everyone was working under the assumption that Brown would be back to coach the team this year, and that Rose and his expiring contract would then be moved at the trade deadline again. This was also before Dolan's edict to Thomas that swapping large expiring contracts for large contracts with 1 or 2 years left on them was no longer permitted. Because the Knicks were so far over the cap when Isiah was brought in and Dolan preferred a large payroll to a full-scale rebuild, Thomas' payroll swap strategy was done in the hope of "winning now while rebuilding" by adding draft picks through the trades. And it worked to a degree in that he managed to put together a good young nucleus while making the effort to win now for Dolan. Of course the Curry move backfired bigtime, but hindsight is 20/20, NOBODY thought the Knicks and Larry Brown would be as bad as they were last year. Now that Dolan has told Isiah he has to work on shedding some payroll Isiah's strategy changes.

 

If the Knicks won't take back comparable salary to Rose's in a deal it means that a trade is nearly impossible given the NBA's rules, unless the Knicks just swap expiring contracts with a team. So at that point, what else is there to do than to buy out Rose? It's the same reason they bought out Maurice Taylor.

 

It doesn't absolve Isiah Thomas of all responsibility, but it's not so simple as just calling him an idiot. He was operating under a set of rules from Dolan (SPEND LOTS OF MY MONEY I WANT A GOOD TEAM!) and trying to keep Larry Brown happy when the Rose deal was made.

 

Also, I'm not sure where anyone gets the idea that Isiah ran Jalen out of Indiana. Jalen and Isiah have never had anything but nice things to say about each other. The Pacers made a great move to trade Rose for both Ron Artest and Brad Miller, It wasn't a case of a player being run out of town, but an opportunity to steal two great young players from the Bulls for an aging, expensive one. It's simmilar to the Dale Davis for Jermaine O'Neal swap. And the trade was made by Donnie Walsh, one of the better GM's in the history of the league. Isiah was the coach.