4,000 dead Americans

[Jobber of the Week 0]

...and now they're selling schoolgirls' used panties from sidewalk vending machines.

This may be the greatest argument either for or against an unrestricted free market, depending on your principles.

[EricMM 0]

As if the used panties was the worst.

 

(at least it's not cigs )

[Thoth 0]

As someone who has a lot to say, potentialy, about Japan specifically, let me sum up my feelings by explaining a game show that they have.

 

They invite foreigners to come on, and challenge each other to trivia about Japanese geography, culture, history, etc. They have a Canadian as a longtime champion, and in an episode I watched, he demolished two Kenyans and a South African.

 

Throughout this, there is a Japanese audience that claps and nods knowingly. "They are so good at our culture," I bet they say.

[At Home 0]

As someone who has a lot to say, potentialy, about Japan specifically, let me sum up my feelings by explaining a game show that they have.

 

They invite foreigners to come on, and challenge each other to trivia about Japanese geography, culture, history, etc. They have a Canadian as a longtime champion, and in an episode I watched, he demolished two Kenyans and a South African.

 

Throughout this, there is a Japanese audience that claps and nods knowingly. "They are so good at our culture," I bet they say.

 

The best game Japanese game shows..... ever. I forgot the names, but here are the descriptions.

 

1) A man was shut up underground in a little bunker for one year, given nothing but about a few weeks' supply of food and water. And several hundred magazines, pens, pencils, envelopes, and stamps. To survive, he had to furiously enter magazine contests.

 

2) A guy was tied to a pole naked and had to run around an arena. Long story short, he got raped by a dog.

[Nightwing 0]

As someone who has a lot to say, potentialy, about Japan specifically, let me sum up my feelings by explaining a game show that they have.

 

They invite foreigners to come on, and challenge each other to trivia about Japanese geography, culture, history, etc. They have a Canadian as a longtime champion, and in an episode I watched, he demolished two Kenyans and a South African.

 

Throughout this, there is a Japanese audience that claps and nods knowingly. "They are so good at our culture," I bet they say.

 

The best game Japanese game shows..... ever. I forgot the names, but here are the descriptions.

 

1) A man was shut up underground in a little bunker for one year, given nothing but about a few weeks' supply of food and water. And several hundred magazines, pens, pencils, envelopes, and stamps. To survive, he had to furiously enter magazine contests.

 

2) A guy was tied to a pole naked and had to run around an arena. Long story short, he got raped by a dog.

 

The second one sounds a lot closer to a snuff film gone hilariously wrong.

[snuffbox 0]

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/W...q0068_04_18.asp

 

Would it save time if we all just start sending all of our money directly to Iraq rather than the IRS?

[EricMM 0]

Whats amazing is that Iraq the nation is actually having a budget SURPLUS because of all the money we're sending them; they're not spending it. They're saving it, and that's not even counting the embezzling.

 

I guess they can see which direction the wind is blowing here even the Republicans cannot...

[SuperJerk 0]

Once a few women began achieving in positions once reserved for men, more and more men began to see them as equals and were accepted. The Civil Rights movement was jumpstarted because the public was made aware that patriotic African-Americans who had sacrificed for this country returned from Europe and were still treated as second-class citizens, and it was further galvanized when peaceful protestors were brutalized on television for all the nation to see. Ignorance and bigotry allow and perpetuate evil. It stands to reason that knowledge is its cure, and an educated society will strive to be a just society. Even if humans are not all good, the desire to think you are good may be enough to compel you to do the right thing.

I accept this in part and reject it in part. Here's contra:

 

1. In the vast majority of states, free blacks had all the rights of free whites even before the American Revolution, including the right to vote and hold office, long before the Emancipation Proclamation.

 

2. Women had better professional prospects in 1900 than in 2000, and earned higher wages than equally-qualified men.

 

3. Judeo-Christian values were a large part of the reason why women's suffrage and the civil rights movement eventually succeeded.

 

Here's pro (with some qualifiers):

 

1. Ignorance and bigotry do indeed allow and perpetuate evil. Burke, good men to do nothing, &c.

 

2. An educated society should, in theory, lead to a just society - but only so long as the education is objective and not ideologically tilted. I think even you can agree with me that there is a definite leftward tilt today, even though we might have differences concerning to what degree it exists

 

3. Self-corrections in the light of established mores are documented psychological and sociological phenomena. However, such corrections have always been less transient and more heartfelt, resulting in greater quantifiable benefits, when they are a product of faith and goodwill rather than a process imposed by bureaucratic fiat.

Responding to your cons:

1. Whatever rights African-Americans had in the north, the Dred Scott decision took it away. African-Americans were primarily concentrated in the South, and after the Compromise of 1850, even northern blacks who'd never been slaves were at risk because of the Fugitive Slave Act's ridiculous burden of proof standards.

 

2. I don't think the historic evidence supports that claim.

 

Responding to your pros:

 

2. The only role political bias should play in education is if students are required to look at both sides. However, I don't think discredited opposition should be allowed to hijack the conclusions that facts support just in the name of being fair.

 

3. And sometimes government needs to remove barriers for change before the change can happen, especially (but not excusively) when those barriers have already withstood the scrutiny of the democratic process. When those barriers contradict the values embedded in the Constitution, democratic scrutiny can be bypassed to protect the rights of the oppressed.

 

 

[snuffbox 0]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080420/us_nm/...raq_analysts_dc

 

Liberal Media.

[Firestarter 0]

Responding to your cons:

1. Whatever rights African-Americans had in the north, the Dred Scott decision took it away. African-Americans were primarily concentrated in the South, and after the Compromise of 1850, even northern blacks who'd never been slaves were at risk because of the Fugitive Slave Act's ridiculous burden of proof standards.

Agreed. But those rights did exist a LONG time before the Emancipation Proclamation. That's the only point I was making.

 

2. I don't think the historic evidence supports that claim.

Thomas Sowell says otherwise.

 

Responding to your pros:

 

2. The only role political bias should play in education is if students are required to look at both sides. However, I don't think discredited opposition should be allowed to hijack the conclusions that facts support just in the name of being fair.

Agreed, again. For example, I wouldn't support teaching "intelligent design" alongside evolution. When I said that education shouldn't be ideologically tilted, I didn't mean that we always had to present both sides of an argument - I mean, to carry that to an extreme, you might end up having to make people read Streicher's nauseating pornography about the inferiority of Jews - but that curricula shouldn't be demagogic. Which, as I think you'll admit, in the overwhelming majority of our higher ed institutions, it currently is.

 

3. And sometimes government needs to remove barriers for change before the change can happen, especially (but not excusively) when those barriers have already withstood the scrutiny of the democratic process. When those barriers contradict the values embedded in the Constitution, democratic scrutiny can be bypassed to protect the rights of the oppressed.

I have a real problem with the final clause of your last sentence, although the first clause does ameliorate it to an extent. I agree with your first sentence in #3.

[snuffbox 0]

Four more dead.

[EricMM 0]

Its not news anymore.

[snuffbox 0]

What if Rev. Wright went to Iraq?

[EricMM 0]

Then people might care.

 

Or if Iraq could make gas cost less. Instead of more. Eep.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Didn't the administration kind of hint that it would do that, initially?

[EricMM 0]

They said that the war would cost ~3B.

 

I do not recall if they said gas would cost less. They may have indicated that it would provide oil stability. (Super HA)

[Atticus Chaos 0]

This to me is one more reason to bring back the draft. See how the upper classes and people in government like it when their kids, and kids from their communities are going off to war and dying. As it is, its mostly people from poorer families dying who no-one cares about.

 

[Guest Tzar Lysergic]

Are you retarded? Saying "Bring back the draft" is head-implosion levels of dumber than fuck, but then to say it's so rich people will get sent over? That didn't even happen..ever when there was a draft.

[Atticus Chaos 0]

Are you retarded? Saying "Bring back the draft" is head-implosion levels of dumber than fuck, but then to say it's so rich people will get sent over? That didn't even happen..ever when there was a draft.

 

 

It would hold decision makers more accountable. You really think someone like Hillary Clinton would have voted yes on such flimsy evidence if she thought Chelsea was going over?

 

And when I say 'the draft' I don't neccessairly mean everyone would have to see armed combat to fufill their duty. There are other ways they could, that don't mean actual action (civilian government service) so anyone really determined not to see active duty wouldn't.

 

I have no doubt If there was a draft , this war wouldn't be happening.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

There's no realistic need for a draft in 2008 America. Yeah, in a dream world it would hold our leaders "more accountable", but you're talking about a president who managed to avoid going over to 'Nam, here.

[Guest Tzar Lysergic]

No, see, the answer to my question was "yes."

 

A draft now wouldn't hold the administration any more accountable than it did in Vietnam.

[Atticus Chaos 0]

No, see, the answer to my question was "yes."

 

A draft now wouldn't hold the administration any more accountable than it did in Vietnam.

 

I disagree. Middle America's support for the war would have plummeted quickly if it was there kids going over.

 

 

Most of the kids going over and dying are poorer and/or minorities. That's why four more people can die and the press don't care. If wealthier people were going over, I guarantee each death would mean a lot more and get at least some amount of coverage.

 

I don't think their children could avoid it with as much ease as you claim. It's not like the sixties where people quietly ensured their kids wouldn't go. This is 2008, everything gets reported one way or another. And if it became well known congress kids weren't going (which it would) the war would become even more unpopular.

 

And, even if, congress kids did manage to avoid service, what about their nieces/nephews, neighbour's kids...etc. When people they know and love are losing children it might be a different story. As it is, the people that voted for the war...don't live in poor neighbourhoods, likely don't have any family members serving (this was only true for one senator in 2002) and are safely distanced from the casualties of war.

 

 

It might sound extreme, and I wouldn't support it unless it had the non combat option, but considering what the situation is now, people dying in Iraq and no fuss whatsoever, and two presidential candidates who seem almost excited about the idea of starting a war with Iran, something to stop all this and give the decision makers some sort of personal stake.

[EricMM 0]

A draft *would* end the war faster.

 

Oh yes.

[snuffbox 0]

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9...;show_article=1

 

April has been the worst for casualties in 7 months.

[EricMM 0]

How 'bout dat surge!

[snuffbox 0]

The mission was acomplished 5 years ago today.

[EricMM 0]

Fuck Bush.

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

I can feel the freedom. Now let's torture a guy with an awesome tan and a funny hat to celebrate.

 

[snuffbox 0]

I know its not Rev Wright so the Liberal Media might not have picked up on it, but yesterday the Bush Jr administration came out and said that the banner was in reference to the specific ship's mission. Completely left out of the "apology" was Bush's own words about victory gained and the end of major combat operations

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

The mission was acomplished 5 years ago today.

 

5 Years Ago:

 

MATTHEWS: What do you make of this broadside against the USS Abraham Lincoln and its chief visitor last week?

 

LIDDY: Well, I -- in the first place, I think it's envy. I mean, after all, Al Gore had to go get some woman to tell him how to be a man. And here comes George Bush. You know, he's in his flight suit, he's striding across the deck, and he's wearing his parachute harness, you know -- and I've worn those because I parachute -- and it makes the best of his manly characteristic. You go run those -- run that stuff again of him walking across there with the parachute. He has just won every woman's vote in the United States of America. You know, all those women who say size doesn't count -- they're all liars. Check that out. I hope the Democrats keep ratting on him and all of this stuff so that they keep showing that tape.