OAO TNA Genesis PPV Thread - November/19th/2006.

[ChrisMWaters 0]

Now that Abyss is champion, does he have to unmask or relinquish the belt?

 

Or does that rule with the NWA Title no longer apply?

[The Decemberists 0]

Thought it was a good show. Sabin/Daniels, Cage/AJ and Angle/Joe were all good-to-great matches and any show with three matches of that quality is a good show.

 

My thinking to why Angle/Joe was relativly short is they are trying to avoid what I felt happened with Angle/Michaels - a fucking great first match, but then the rematches fall short of that quality. If they're able to get the first then second rematches of Angle/Joe better and longer each time then that this match went 12-15m won't matter at all long term. But it was a hell of a 12 minute match so I find it hard to complain about the length at all anyway as it wasn't as if they had a bad match because of it.

 

And it'll be interesting to see if they can get the regulars at the Impact Zone to actually treat AJ as a heel if that's the way the do end up going.

[TNABaddboi 0]

Now that Abyss is champion, does he have to unmask or relinquish the belt?

 

Abyss might not be champion long enough to find out. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Russo replays KotR 98 and has Sting beat Abyss on Impact.

[Ginger Snaps 0]

Angle winning was stupid. I don't even care about him at this point.

[mfn 0]

I'm still trying to figure out of TNA really thinks that Kurt Angle can help carry the company into serious compitition for WWE.

 

They have the talent to do it, I think they don't know how to use it.

 

And besides, Joe jobbing to Angle was worthless. They should have built it up to Joe beating him again, and again, and again. You know, the whole Tommy Dreamer/Raven bit. Then have a HUGE blowoff and have Angle go out clean.

[Bruce Blank 0]

How about this for "why" - maybe Angle still isn't in good enough shape to really let it rip for a true classic? yeah he claims he is, he also said he drew like no one else for Vince and that he can walk on water so who knows.

[King Cucaracha 0]

And even if he was, why risk it?

 

What would Joe/Angle going 30/35 minutes for the sake of going 30/35 minutes have actually accomplished? Since when did matchtime even matter anyway? Would Joe vs. Angle ever have lived up to the inane hype some people had in their minds even if they'd gone 45 plus? Was there ANY match outcome that would have been greeted with complete approval?

[Downhome 0]

Yes, a lot of stupid stuff happened on this show, but at least it was mainly just the booking that was screwed up, and most of the action in the ring was solid, even if short. Here are my thoughts on what I consider the main points:

 

-Chris Daniels vs Chris Sabin

 

The match was fine, and I loved the post-match angle with Lynn. That was really solid stuff and I can't wait to see that develop over time.

 

 

-Cage vs Styles

 

Again, a fine match but the post-match angle was more important. I'm all for a Styles/Daniels feud with Styles as the heel. As long as they don't stick him with Russo, it should be yet another solid program.

 

 

-LAX vs AMW

 

This was the first mistake in the booking. I know what they were going for, and the fans were going with it for the most part, but the fans turned on Cornette the very second that he said that he was going to strip LAX of the titles. It was like he flipped a light switch, it was that instant. The fans want to see LAX get what's coming to them, but they don't want to see them get fucked over, and in effect proving the point that LAX has been trying to make all along.

 

The guys at PWInsider said that a great angle would be for AMW to come out on the next Impact and tell Cornette that they don't want him to strip them of the titles, since they want to beat LAX in the middle of the ring. I know that the next few episodes have been taped, so I don't know if they did that or not.

 

 

-Abyss vs Sting

 

Meh, I don't know what to think of this really. I agree that the ending was bullshit and didn't make a lot of sense, but I'm not totally against it. It all depends on where they go with it, and if it leads to more character development for Sting. I did like the visual of Abyss laid out in the barbwire holding the world title though, and I was happy for him since I've been a fan of his before he became the Abyss character.

 

If this doesn't lead to some huge new deal for Sting, then I'll agree that it's totally bullshit. There's no reason for him to drop the title one month after finally beating JJ for it.

 

 

-Angle vs Joe

 

This one was just about what I expected in terms of actual match quality. I didn't expect the big classic that so many people were looking for, but I did think we'd get some solid action. I didn't think they would just give us the big time Angle/Joe match their first time out. They're going to let it build up, let the storyline develop, give both guys one win each, then have a third match, more than likely with the world title involved.

 

I don't like how they had Joe tap out though, and I wasn't expecting that at all. I'm fine with Angle beating Joe, I mean come on he is f'n Kurt Angle, and who better to end the streak than him? That said, I think they should have went with the angle where Joe passes out, and just refuses to give up. He'd still get the loss and Angle would still pick up the win, but it would be done in a way where it doesn't really hurt either guy, and would build that much more for their second match.

 

Anyway, it wasn't a horrible show, but it wasn't really the show that they have been building up to. I don't think this is going to hurt them, but it sure didn't help them as they were hoping for.

[Ginger Snaps 0]

I don't like how they had Joe tap out though, and I wasn't expecting that at all. I'm fine with Angle beating Joe, I mean come on he is f'n Kurt Angle, and who better to end the streak than him?

 

How about anybody. How about the guy who dresses like a shark.

 

Beating Joe should have meant something. It should have been used to elevate someone new, who hadn't been elevated before. They had Joe lose to Kurt Angle instead, who's already established ten times over.

 

Bad booking. This is why TNA is still a glorified indy fed.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

I don't like how they had Joe tap out though, and I wasn't expecting that at all. I'm fine with Angle beating Joe, I mean come on he is f'n Kurt Angle, and who better to end the streak than him?

 

How about anybody. How about the guy who dresses like a shark.

 

Beating Joe should have meant something. It should have been used to elevate someone new, who hadn't been elevated before. They had Joe lose to Kurt Angle instead, who's already established ten times over.

 

Bad booking. This is why TNA is still a glorified indy fed.

Angle didn't need to beat Joe. He's already over huge, the people already think he's the best wrestler ever and he's already seen as super tough. Why did he need to win when Joe winning would have meant so much more and would have been a benefit to TNA?

 

Bad booking. This is why TNA is still a glorified indy fed.

 

This is the one problem TNA have never been able to correct. They have the talent, and almost always have had the talent. It's the booking that is their problem, but they don't seem able or willing to do anything about it.

[Hawk 34 0]

I've always felt that TNA is a horrible mesh of ROH and WWE. They have the wrestling that ROH gives (although not at as high of a level) but lacks the straight up, no-nonsense booking/storylines and threw that in with the idiotic booking, insanely outrageous characters of WWE without a clue of how to mainstream it without coming off as an imposter act.

[Downhome 0]

To me, the streak was to help build up Joe in the end, not to put over someone else. The fact that no one else, no one other than the only Olympic gold medalist in professional wrestling and the man who many consider the best wrestler in the world, could beat Samoa Joe makes Joe look incredibly strong in my opinion.

 

I know that isn't how most of you are looking at it, but that's the point that they're trying to put over. They're trying to say that Kurt Angle And Samoa Joe are the two best wrestlers out there today. They'll even it out when they have Joe beat Angle, more than likely, in their next match.

 

All of this is just about building up Kurt Angle and Samoa Joe, establishing them as the two best guys in the company. The story that I see them building up is that Kurt Angle is, without a doubt, the best wrestler today, and Samoa Joe's goal to beat down Kurt Angle and take that title from him, proving once and for all just how great Joe really is. He's defeated everyone else, now it's on to the top.

[Ginger Snaps 0]

I'm not sure whether to take you as a huge Joe mark or a TNA apologist.

 

Even if that's what they were going for, which I doubt, they did it in a stupid way, so people aren't going to think "Only Angle could stop Joe" they'll think "Joe isn't good enough to beat WWE-castoff Kurt Angle". Reading the spoilers, they essentially cement that.

 

Regardless the streak could have been used to elevate someone. Then you would have used the streak to elevate two people, Joe and someone else. But not Angle, he didn't need it.

[Downhome 0]

I'm not a huge Joe mark and I'm not a TNA apologist. I'm still a pretty new TNA fan, I've only watched on and off since they started up. I'm just trying to explain what I believe TNA is going for with this, just based on what I've seen from everything so far. Like I said, the point is that Joe beat everyone else, and it finally took (what TNA says over and over again) "the greatest wrestler in the world" to finally beat him. I think that makes Joe sound pretty great, if no one could beat him except for that one guy that they are booking to be the best in the world. Now when Joe does go over Angle, and wins the feud, it makes him look that much better.

 

EDIT:

 

I haven't read the spoilers, so everything I'm saying might already be proven wrong. I'm just going by the feud up to the end of that match on the PPV, and that's all. I know that TNA has fucked things up in the past, and that could happen here as well, if it hasn't happened already in the spoilers.

[Superfly Snuka 0]

You know, having Joe vs. Angle right away was the dumbest thing TNA could have possibly done. Really smart/easy booking that would have been great is have Joe win the the title/continue his winning streak to the in the Dec. or Jan. PPV, and have tease angle vs. Joe throughout starting with the head-BUTT like they did when Angle first got there to when they eventually met a 10-12 months later.

 

The best feuds are the ones the fans really want but keep getting teased about for a prolonged period of time, thus heightening the anticipation. Taz vs. Sabu in the old ECW was the perfect example of this. Even Batista, with the slow teasing of him against Evolution was what made him a star (though that's faded since that feud). TNA really needs to learn how to develop long feuds instead of having blow-offs right away. I guess they're doing that with Rhino and Christian, but that's not really working. Man, If Heyman was writing TNA, it'd be so much better.

[King Cucaracha 0]

I've always felt that TNA is a horrible mesh of ROH and WWE.

 

To be fair, that's partly because half the roster work ROH and the other half were fired from WWE.

[Ginger Snaps 0]

I'm not a huge Joe mark and I'm not a TNA apologist. I'm still a pretty new TNA fan, I've only watched on and off since they started up. I'm just trying to explain what I believe TNA is going for with this, just based on what I've seen from everything so far. Like I said, the point is that Joe beat everyone else, and it finally took (what TNA says over and over again) "the greatest wrestler in the world" to finally beat him. I think that makes Joe sound pretty great, if no one could beat him except for that one guy that they are booking to be the best in the world. Now when Joe does go over Angle, and wins the feud, it makes him look that much better.

 

EDIT:

 

I haven't read the spoilers, so everything I'm saying might already be proven wrong. I'm just going by the feud up to the end of that match on the PPV, and that's all. I know that TNA has fucked things up in the past, and that could happen here as well, if it hasn't happened already in the spoilers.

 

I'll spoil it for you, Joe jobs to Kurt again. In a nothing match on free TV.

 

I guess I'm just disappointed that TNA is so short sighted that they decided to ruin the one legitimate star that their company has made in order to put over the latest WWE ex-employee. It would maybe make sense if this was something like when Christian was hired, and he had never been a main eventer in WWE, so they put him over Joe in order to make him seem like a real major guy, cause then that would be elevating him. But Angle was a world champ like five times. Or whatever, I don't remember. He didn't need to go over Joe once, let alone twice. And it just makes Joe and TNA look really bad, cause Joe was this unstoppable guy, but he couldn't beat the WWE guy. Thus WWE > TNA. This is why TNA looks so second-rate. They've got a good enough look and some good workers, but for some reason they book themselves to be second-rate to the WWE. They do it a lot but it's mostly with undercard guys but it isn't so bad. When they do it with their main stars, though, it really hurts the whole company.

[TNABaddboi 0]

Aren't spoilers supposed to be kept in the spoiler thread?

[luke-o 0]

I guess I'm just disappointed that TNA is so short sighted that they decided to ruin the one legitimate star that their company has made in order to put over the latest WWE ex-employee. It would maybe make sense if this was something like when Christian was hired, and he had never been a main eventer in WWE, so they put him over Joe in order to make him seem like a real major guy, cause then that would be elevating him. But Angle was a world champ like five times. Or whatever, I don't remember. He didn't need to go over Joe once, let alone twice. And it just makes Joe and TNA look really bad, cause Joe was this unstoppable guy, but he couldn't beat the WWE guy. Thus WWE > TNA. This is why TNA looks so second-rate. They've got a good enough look and some good workers, but for some reason they book themselves to be second-rate to the WWE. They do it a lot but it's mostly with undercard guys but it isn't so bad. When they do it with their main stars, though, it really hurts the whole company.

 

I still think your judging this too soon. You wouldn't be saying the same thing if JOe came off better from this fued and he wins the next 1-1 matches.

 

This has been a great way for Joe to say to himself, "right, i need to step up my game", train harder so the next time hes ready for Angle.

 

Aren't spoilers supposed to be kept in the spoiler thread?

 

Yes they are, and for shame you post them up and spoiling them for other people. For shame.

[Guest Coffey]

I'll spoil it for you, Joe jobs to Kurt again. In a nothing match on free TV.

Don't forget it's a six-minute match too!

 

I still think you're judging this too soon. You wouldn't be saying the same thing if Joe came off better from this fued and he wins the next one-on-one matches.

 

This has been a great way for Joe to say to himself "I need to step up my game" so that next time he's ready for Angle.

 

Yeah...right. He has to "step up his game" 'cause being undefeated for over a year wasn't getting the job done. We're not judging it too soon. Joe should've won the first fuckin' match!

[Dobbs 3K 0]

I'll spoil it for you, Joe jobs to Kurt again. In a nothing match on free TV.

Don't forget it's a six-minute match too!

 

I still think you're judging this too soon. You wouldn't be saying the same thing if Joe came off better from this fued and he wins the next one-on-one matches.

 

This has been a great way for Joe to say to himself "I need to step up my game" so that next time he's ready for Angle.

 

Yeah...right. He has to "step up his game" 'cause being undefeated for over a year wasn't getting the job done. We're not judging it too soon. Joe should've won the first fuckin' match!

 

Agreed. Putting Angle over Joe wasn't a suicidal booking decision, but I think they'd be better off in the long run if Joe had gone over Angle, even if it was just barely. Either that, or do the ref stoppage/reversal idea that was touted on this forum. Joe jobbing to Angle twice, cleanly, doesn't really do anything.

[luke-o 0]

I just watched the Angle/Joe match, and to be honest, i cant see what everyone is bitching about.

 

Sure Angle won, and i would have prefered Joe to win, but it took Angle TWO Olympic Slams and THREE attempts at the Ankle Lock to get the win, how does that make Joe look weak?

 

But overall, the PPV was a bit shit. The Sabin/Daniels match was quite good and Cage/AJ was alright. Although i did like the comedy moments in the Paparazzi/Killings and Hoyt match.

[Guest Coffey]

It's not so much the context of the match that makes Joe look weak, it's the outcome of the match that makes Joe look weak. Actually, not just Joe but TNA as a whole. Joe squishes the entire roster but then a real wrestler from WWE comes in and suddenly, his streak is ended. Angle has also already made the current TNA Heavyweight Champion tap out...

 

It makes it look like Joe was only undefeated because the talent in TNA is second rate. Angle comes in and beats him on his first try. Yeah, Joe took a couple of Olympic Slams and a few attempts at an Ankle Lock. So did 155lbs, 5'3" not-undefeated, Rey Mysterio.

 

It'd be like, during the Monday Night Wars, if HBK jumped to WCW and ended Goldberg's streak. Angle didn't need any kind of rub and Joe, with the streak, had a rub to give.

[luke-o 0]

I can see your point but i disagree.

 

I dont think this has made TNA or Joe look weak at all. Joe is NOT a multi time chamion, and niether is Abyss, of course Angle is of a higher calibur. TNA have been promoting him as the greatest wrestler in the world. So who else could have ended Joes streak?

 

Im not defending TNA's decision, believe me, i thinks its a bad one. But im just saying that people on these forums are making a bigger deal out of this than it actually is.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

It's not so much the context of the match that makes Joe look weak, it's the outcome of the match that makes Joe look weak. Actually, not just Joe but TNA as a whole. Joe squishes the entire roster but then a real wrestler from WWE comes in and suddenly, his streak is ended. Angle has also already made the current TNA Heavyweight Champion tap out...

Exactly. People seem unable, or unwilling, to look at the bigger picture. How much more over would Joe and TNA have gotten if Joe had beaten Kurt Angle clean? As mentioned, Angle can't get any more over, so what does him winning do? TNA, on the other hand, can get more over and desperately needs to, and it would have made TNA, and Joe, look like a big deal if someone as highly touted as Kurt Angle is unable to beat Joe.

 

Angle has also already made the current TNA Heavyweight Champion tap out...

 

Which makes you wonder why people should care about Angle ever challenging Abyss. Abyss tapped out clean three days before his title victory and he only won the NWA Title because the champion got DQ'd. I don't think they could have made Abyss look any weaker as a world champion if they tried, and who cares about anyone facing such a weak champion? If Angle beats him again, it's no big deal, but if Angle loses to Abyss, he lost to a joke of a champion.

[Guest Coffey]

So who else could have ended Joes streak?

Uhh...anyone that TNA wanted to give a push too? Anyone that could use a rub? Anyone that wasn't a current main-eventer. Pretty much anyone on the goddamn roster outside of Sting, Nash, Jarrett or Angle.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

And if they did want Angle to end the streak, at least let Joe win the first match and make it look like Angle had to fight to do so. As it is, he did it in less than 15 minutes.

[Guest Coffey]

...and I agree with that, or they could've had Angle cost Joe a match. That way, the undefeated rub still goes to someone else and *gasp* Joe/Angle would actually have a REASON to wrestle!

 

"I chose Joe 'cause HE'S THE BEST!" isn't quality.

[claydude14 0]

What the fuck on that spoiler, WHAT THE FUCK. I don't care if you think it's such a big fucking news-worthy note that it doesn't require no spoiler tags, have some respect for your fellow posters who don't want to read that shit. Jesus fuck, it's a bad spoiler to swallow but I'd rather SEE IT than hear it, thus the whole point of spoiler tags.

 

Respect the spoiler tags or please don't post here; some of us like to enjoy the TV shows as they air- and you have your own thread to discuss spoilers.

 

Dick fucking move.

[Guest Coffey]

Shut the fuck up.