Bored Posted November 27, 2006 Report Posted November 27, 2006 This is a bad year for holdovers as they have no shot this year with Gwynn and Ripken being slam dunks. Of course the main focus of the ballot will be the evilest man in the whole world who fooled us all and poisoned our youth, Mark McGwire. Holdovers (in order they finished on last year's ballot) Jim Rice Goose Gossage Andre Dawson Bert Blyleven Lee Smith Jack Morris Tommy John Steve Garvey (final year on ballot) Alan Trammell Dave Parker Dave Concepcion Don Mattingly Orel Hershiser Dale Murphy Albert Belle First Year Nominees Harold Baines Dante Bichette Bobby Bonilla Scott Brosius Jay Buhner Ken Caminiti Jose Canseco Eric Davis Tony Fernandez Tony Gwynn Wally Joyner Mark McGwire Paul O'Neill Cal Ripken Bret Saberhagen Devon White Bobby Witt
2GOLD Posted November 27, 2006 Report Posted November 27, 2006 I cannot wait for Cal's speech. That is going to be so awesome.
CanadianChris Posted November 27, 2006 Report Posted November 27, 2006 My ballot, without justification for now: Gwynn Ripken McGwire Gossage Blyleven Morris Trammell Rice I highly doubt Saberhagen will get in, and I'm not convinced he should get in either, but I'd probably cast a vote for him too.
TheDevilAndGodAreRagingInsideMe Posted November 28, 2006 Report Posted November 28, 2006 Paul O'Neill!!!!!!!!!~(#)@#!_$
EVIL~! alkeiper Posted November 28, 2006 Report Posted November 28, 2006 My hypothetical ballot... Goose Gossage Andre Dawson Bert Blyleven Alan Trammell Cal Ripken Tony Gwynn Mark McGwire
C Dubya 04 Posted November 28, 2006 Report Posted November 28, 2006 If this is the thread for it, I'm sure that there will be arguments as to if McGwire belongs in. IMO he does and it shouldn't even be close.
Guest Princess Leena Posted November 28, 2006 Report Posted November 28, 2006 Does this mean we'll finally get a year without silly Jim Rice banter? Poor Garvey.
Bored Posted November 28, 2006 Author Report Posted November 28, 2006 Oh ya those paragons of virtue, baseball writers, are already lighting their torches. http://www.newsday.com/sports/columnists/n...orts-columnists I went into journalism with the idealistic belief that somehow I could change things, that I could expose the bad guys and elevate the good guys. Over the years, I have learned it often is just beating your fists against a steel door. However, we must continue to try. Leaving McGwire off a Hall of Fame ballot is my try. If enough guys feel the same way, that steel door will finally come down. Hehehehe, this is going to be fun.
TheDevilAndGodAreRagingInsideMe Posted November 28, 2006 Report Posted November 28, 2006 McGwire will not get in.
Guest Princess Leena Posted November 28, 2006 Report Posted November 28, 2006 I hope McGwire doesn't get in. Mostly because of the precedent that would set for future assholes. Although, that really wouldn't be fair to McGwire, since he when he took andro it was legal and over-the-counter. But, I don't want to hear bitching.
vivalaultra Posted November 28, 2006 Report Posted November 28, 2006 There would be something...not right about Mark McGwire getting in the same year as Cal Ripken Jr. With that said, I think he definitely deserves it...and so does Jim Rice, dammit!
Vern Gagne Posted November 28, 2006 Report Posted November 28, 2006 Gwynn Ripken Blyleven Goosage Trammell Dawson Although, that really wouldn't be fair to McGwire, since he when he took andro it was legal and over-the-counter. My problem is how much the substances helped McGwire. I really think that McGwire wouldn't be a strong Hall of Fame candidates, had he not started juicing.
randomguy Posted November 28, 2006 Report Posted November 28, 2006 McGwire did more than andro. Andro isn't the issue. Read Canseco's book then watch Mac at the congressional hearings. According to Canseco Mac is was the second major steroid user in baseball. (After Canseco himself) Mac has done nothing to deny that and refused to say whether he had used steroids.
2GOLD Posted November 28, 2006 Report Posted November 28, 2006 Does this mean we'll finally get a year without silly Jim Rice banter? Poor Garvey. ESPN Classic should show all the Cheap Seats of Garvey classics...so about two hours of Garvey. Which will be the number of votes he'll get. 2 or 4, one of those.
Guest Princess Leena Posted November 28, 2006 Report Posted November 28, 2006 McGwire did more than andro. Andro isn't the issue. Read Canseco's book then watch Mac at the congressional hearings. According to Canseco Mac is was the second major steroid user in baseball. (After Canseco himself) Mac has done nothing to deny that and refused to say whether he had used steroids. True. And most of us know how guilty Mark probably is with his Congressional comments. But, then we're getting into shit that can't be proven. The main point of the McGwire thing is are you going to let ALL steroid users in, or NONE.
Guest Princess Leena Posted November 28, 2006 Report Posted November 28, 2006 Does this mean we'll finally get a year without silly Jim Rice banter? Poor Garvey. ESPN Classic should show all the Cheap Seats of Garvey classics...so about two hours of Garvey. Which will be the number of votes he'll get. 2 or 4, one of those. Heh. I already miss Cheap Seats. And Garvey needs to make more F-list Celebrity [random sport] shows. Give me more Michael Floorwax, and Garvey has a vote. If I had a vote.
The Man in Blak Posted November 28, 2006 Report Posted November 28, 2006 But, then we're getting into shit that can't be proven. And that's the main point - McGwire was linked with andro, which was a legal supplement at the time of his use, but he hasn't been confirmed for any other kind of drug use at this time. As painful as it was to watch his congressional testimony, he's innocent until we get some concrete evidence to the contrary. For me, the steroid issue is fairly easy because we only have proof for three guys: Palmeiro (tested positive), Bonds and Sheffield (implicated from evidence in the BALCO trials). None of them have been prosecuted for breaking any federal laws with steroids (so far) and only one of them, Palmeiro, actually broke a rule of baseball regarding said drug use. Therefore, Palmeiro is the only one that I would leave off my virtual ballot as a result of his steroid usage. Bonds and Sheffield are somewhat trickier. Sheffield is a borderline case to begin with and other accounts of his character would rule him out of my ballot before steroids even came into play. Bonds, on the other hand, was basically a HoF lock before he went on the late career home run binge - even if you heavily "discount" his numbers after 1999, he's got 400/400 with absurd rate stats over a long period of time. As much as I despise the guy, I'd put him on my ballot. As for the rest, McGwire, Sosa, and virtually everybody else from the era should be judged on their accomplishments in the game. If you hold out McGwire or Sosa for suspicions of PEDs, then you might as well blackball any player that excelled from the late 80's onward.
hyperchord24 Posted November 28, 2006 Report Posted November 28, 2006 "I'm not here to talk about the past" was the absolute worst thing he could've said. Of course, McGuire could probably care less if he got in. He's made his money. He owes nothing to baseball in his mind.
Guest Princess Leena Posted November 28, 2006 Report Posted November 28, 2006 McGwire was right, though. If he says he didn't do it, nobody believes him. He says yes, the government would have continued to bother him. As for the rest, McGwire, Sosa, and virtually everybody else from the era should be judged on their accomplishments in the game. If you hold out McGwire or Sosa for suspicions of PEDs, then you might as well blackball any player that excelled from the late 80's onward. That's the problem. And it sucks. I'd like to keep out all the obvious cheaters, but there's no way to realistically do that. The subjectivity of it is simply wrong, also. With McGwire, if he didn't have the 70 HR season, and those crazy years to put him well over 500, he arguably wouldn't have got in. Whereas Bonds has the excuse that he was a top player before his hat size doubled, and was good enough for the HOF. But, 1) Just because he was small before, that doesn't mean he was on illegal substances then, and 2) the character of the player, which does count in HOF voting. I believe that once a cheater, always a cheater.
Hawk 34 Posted November 28, 2006 Report Posted November 28, 2006 "I'm not here to talk about the past" was the absolute worst thing he could've said. Of course, McGuire could probably care less if he got in. He's made his money. He owes nothing to baseball in his mind. If he didn't care about the hall of fame, he wouldn't have bothered to shoot up in the first place. I'm not sure where I stand because McGwire wasn't the only cheater and we've yet to get concrete proof about his abuse other then the usage of Andro (which was legal). The best measure might be to prevent him from being a first ballot HOF'er and let him wait another year. Otherwise, it's a total mess to determine fairness in this case. We have known cheaters in the hall right now. Remember when McGwire, Ripken and Gwynn retired in 2001 and people actually argued that Ripken would be the odd man out, if any.
hyperchord24 Posted November 28, 2006 Report Posted November 28, 2006 If he didn't care about the hall of fame, he wouldn't have bothered to shoot up in the first place. He could care about fame, but unless he starts going down the Pete Rose path, he probably is just happy with his money.
vivalaultra Posted November 28, 2006 Report Posted November 28, 2006 Hey, I had forgotten that Caminiti's on the ballot this year. He'll never get in, and not just because he did every drug imaginable...performance-enhancing and recreational, but I still hope he gets some votes thrown his way. He was possibly the best 3rd baseman in baseball for a good chunk of the 90s.
EVIL~! alkeiper Posted November 28, 2006 Report Posted November 28, 2006 I'm not sure where I stand because McGwire wasn't the only cheater and we've yet to get concrete proof about his abuse other then the usage of Andro (which was legal). The best measure might be to prevent him from being a first ballot HOF'er and let him wait another year. Otherwise, it's a total mess to determine fairness in this case. We have known cheaters in the hall right now. I agree with this. I think the true referendum on McGwire will come in 2008, when there aren't any strong news candidates outside of Tim Raines.
Jericholic82 Posted December 2, 2006 Report Posted December 2, 2006 Paul O'Neill!!!!!!!!!~(#)@#!_$ he wont get in, but I hope he gets some votes. Brosius wont even get a second look, but he was a huge part of 3 straight world titles (especially in the 98 ws) Goose needs to get in Gwynn and Ripken are no doubters Mark wont get in this year is my gut feeling.
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