The Dark Knight

[Nightwing 0]

For the person who asked about why Johnny Depp would even accept: He's already accepted to play Heath's role in the Terry Gilliam flick (along with a few other actors). I don't see him turning down the role if it's played right, and it's only going to come back if Nolan wants it to. I don't see DC messing up a good thing like Sony/Marvel did with Spider-Man 3.

 

I don't understand the talk in this thread about Two-Face.

 

Two-Face is dead. Let's face that fact. He's not moving, not blinking, not breathing at the end of that. No one tests his pulse, no one tries to revive him, no nothing. I mean, he's dead. I don't see it as Batman killing someone; I don't think that was his honest intent. The Joker wanted him to become a killer by choice, and I don't think he intended to kill Harvey as much as he was simply trying to stop him from killing the kid. It's harder to justify killing Ra's vs. saving the Joker than what happened with Harvey.

 

But what would we do with him in another movie? The way he was built up, Harvey Dent couldn't support a third movie. He was never meant to be evil; vengeful, yes (And, perhaps, rightfully so). But the character can't support another movie. I think someone already pointed out that he couldn't survive walking around like that for long without succumbing to a horrifying infection. And what is he going to do, try and kill Gordon again? We've already seen him try to hurt Gordon in the worst possible way imaginable; what more can he do? Deep down, he's not a true criminal, so using the mobster approach doesn't work. He just wants revenge for him and Rachel, and that was the way to end it.

 

And I'll say again, it destroys the ending of this movie. He's meant to be the beacon of hope after Gotham has been through its worst. Batman and Gordon are going to keep his secret, and Batman is going to bear his burden along with his own. If Harvey comes back, it destroys all this.

[Guest The Elements of Style]

I think the Joker was the best movie villain ever in this movie.

Good to see cabbageboy's brother made it back to the boards.

 

[Nighthawk 0]

I am just really not feeling the impossibility to recast. At all. It's just not that untouchable, and the Joker is such a versatile character. Hell, I thought Heath Ledger was an awful choice. They could cast, I don't know, Hugh Jackman or some fucking thing and come out of it with everybody saying "Heath who? Fuck that guy!" Let them cast it or not, I also thought Aaron Eckhart was a bad choice, they clearly know what they're doing.

 

Here's my fantasy cast for Batman 3: Dark Knighter:

 

Jack Nicholson as the Joker

Michael Cera as Dick Grayson

Jonah Hill as the Penguin

 

 

I actually do like the idea of Javier Bardem as Bane, though.

 

But seriously... I'm liking, more and more, Morgan Freeman and Michael Caine in this. Obviously they're good actors, but they're providing some respite and grounding in such a grim story. This is totally the Empire Strikes Back of a fantastic crime noir series, I will not stand here and see Heath Ledger made out to be some golden god.

[bob_barron 0]

I think the Joker was the best movie villain ever in this movie.

Good to see cabbageboy's brother made it back to the boards.

 

You're the one who has made the dumbest posts in the thread.

 

Recasting the Joker is just asking for backlash and for people to find a reason to shit on the movie. I think Bane would be a cool villain, though.

[Twisted Intestine 0]

Why would there be backlash? If he did as good or better (Yes, it is possible to do better than Ledger) nobody would shit on the movie. The only people who would shit on it are the people who shit on this one for Nicholson not being Joker. You see how much money they set the movie back with their backlash.

 

Just because Ledger died, so no one can take his role?

 

In fact, if somebody like Depp was cast and did a great job, there'd not only be no backlash but a wider audience because he's a superstar with his own following of fans.

[bob_barron 0]

I just don't think it's a good idea to re-cast such an iconic role, it never ends well, and the comparisons between the two Jokers will just overshadow the movie. Plus, who even knows Johnny Depp wants to do this movie?

 

The guy who played the Joker sadly passed on, so it's time to come up with new villains and scenarios.

[Nightwing 0]

I'd like to point out that, as much as Heath did for the Joker, the Nolans were the people who wrote all his lines and scenes. I think the real limiting factor is a story for the Joker, not the actor. If there isn't a good enough story for him, then he shouldn't be used. But if there is, I think it's fine. I don't think Heath would be saying "No, I don't want anyone else to play the Joker after I do!" He'd want people to have their take on it.

[Hawk 34 0]

I think the Joker was the best movie villain ever in this movie.

Good to see cabbageboy's brother made it back to the boards.

 

You're the one who has made the dumbest posts in the thread.

 

Recasting the Joker is just asking for backlash and for people to find a reason to shit on the movie. I think Bane would be a cool villain, though.

 

He is right though in this instance, it was a ridiculously irrational proclamation given the large scope of movie villains. It’s a wholly reactionary statement that he’ll probable retract in a couple years or next month when The Mummy 3 is released.

 

Its fine to have that opinion just as much as “Nighthawk” harbors a fond affection for Daniel Plainview but you can’t just proclaim Ledger’s portrayal as the greatest in the history of motion pictures. It’s inaccurate and wrong.

 

Personally, I'm a believer that The Joker isn't needed as a character in the next installment of this series. Everyone is making assumptions that The Joker needs to be recast to fulfil some non-existant need. It's painfully easy to write around Ledger's inability to play this role and it's not just Johnny Depp that has the gravitas. He's just a really well known name that people like. It's already been said but this next movie won't be released until at least 3 more years and while Ledger's performance is being held in such high regard for the moment, that doesn't mean it'll remain the absolute standard for Cabbageboy's of the world when the time comes around.

 

Will any backlash be received towards the news of a recast? Of course but it'll mostly consist of the same reactions most comic book castings always get and that's anger, confusion and outlandish claims that the director has no idea what he is doing. The movie will be released and we'll judge the new actor's ability to portray a homicidal clown on its own merits and not a direct comparison to Ledger.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

With all of this should they/shouldn't they replace Ledger as the Joker posts....I think everyone is forgetting something VERY important

 

...

 

...

 

 

 

...

 

So...yeah

[bob_barron 0]

Choken One calling out anyone for being stupid is funny in itself.

 

I totally forget most of Batman Begins- what happened to the Scarecrow at the end of the movie, that would cause him to be part of the fake Batman in TDK

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

He rode off into the Narrows on a horse shooting flames out of its nostrils (the fear inducing stuff).

[TheBigSwigg 0]

I'd like to point out that, as much as Heath did for the Joker, the Nolans were the people who wrote all his lines and scenes. I think the real limiting factor is a story for the Joker, not the actor. If there isn't a good enough story for him, then he shouldn't be used. But if there is, I think it's fine. I don't think Heath would be saying "No, I don't want anyone else to play the Joker after I do!" He'd want people to have their take on it.

 

While the Nolan's wrote the script, Chris Nolan has said in almost every interview available that Ledger's acting took the role (paraphrasing) above and beyond everything that they intended in the script. While the screenplay was excellent, Ledger made the role. You can't tell it's him behind the make up. Yes, that's his job, but not every actor *coughNICHOLSONcough* can do that.

[dubq 0]

With all of this should they/shouldn't they replace Ledger as the Joker posts....I think everyone is forgetting something VERY important

 

...

 

...

 

 

 

...

 

So...yeah

 

And don't forget...

 

 

[dubq 0]

Also - I think the main reasoning about why they shouldn't recast the Joker isn't because they don't NEED to. The DK story is fine the way it ended off. Move the shit along and make room for another chapter/story/villain.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Also - I think the main reasoning about why they shouldn't recast the Joker isn't because they don't NEED to. The DK story is fine the way it ended off. Move the shit along and make room for another chapter/story/villain.

 

Bingo. We wouldn't be having this argument if say Michael Caine had died because nobody would dispute that Alfred is a vital recurring character. But Joker is someone who shouldn't have had a major role in the next film even if Ledger was still alive.

[Golgo 13 0]

Just throwing this out there, but how about Man-Bat as a more amoral, violent and horrific version of Batman? One who doesn't rely on the science and mutations of the comics (but could still work to that end) and for whatever reason takes up the mantle of a twisted Batman in costume and tactics to either be a similar crusader or use that advantage to do whatever he wants. It's probably too close to Jean-Paul or Venom, but it could work, especially when we talk about imitators coming out of the woodwork.

[Twisted Intestine 0]

I didn't think the arguement was about weather or not he SHOULD be recast, but weather or not it was "OMG IMPOSSIBLE TO LIVE UP TO LEDGER'S PERFORMANCE~!" if they did choose to recast.

[King Kamala 0]

I don't see a problem with recasting Ledger. They just don't have to at this point. Let's face it, somewhere down the line, 15-20 years from now, Max Spielberg will be directing a new Batman series and everybody will want a new Joker. Right now, it just wouldn't be worth the backlash to cast a new Joker. Since they don't have to have one, I don't see why they should immedietely go about looking for a new Joker.

 

 

And Man-Bat is an interesting idea for a villain in the next one if not a bit obscure. Having thought about it some more, I'd almost rather have a villain we haven't seen before on the big screen.

[Brett Favre 0]

It's not that Joker can't be recast ever again, just not for this franchise. Especially since he isn't necessary for the next movie. Like I said, end the movie with a report that Joker has escaped Arkham, and Batman goes off into the night looking for him.

[DarKnight 0]

Good to see cabbageboy's brother made it back to the boards.

 

Thanks

 

When I said the Joker was the best villain I've seen in movies, that is simply just my opinion. You can choose whoever you want. I've just never seen any villains in movies that were as sick and twisted, but also as fun as the Joker in this. I want to see A Clockwork Orange, since Ledger said that Alex from that was an influence on his Joker.

 

Also, has anyone seen Moviefone's list of the best movie villains? Ledger's Joker probably should be #1 on that. The only other villain that is close to being as sick and twisted is Hannibal, but he has manners though.

[Brett Favre 0]

I don't want to say he's the best villain ever, but I was always looking forward to seeing him on screen.

[cabbageboy 0]

The best villain I've ever seen in a movie was Tim Roth in Rob Roy. It's not the most well known movie or anything, but I hated his character so much in that movie I'd probably want to kick his ass in real life, haha.

 

There's also Gary Oldman in Leon: The Professional. He's a total nutjob, but I have to say I still flat out hated Roth more in Rob Roy. But it's astounding to think that the guy who was such a demented wacko in Leon and True Romance can also give a restrained performance like he did as Gordon.

 

The best villains are the ones you want to see something particularly bad happen to them in the end. For whatever reason Chigurh in No Country For Old Men never made me hate him exactly. Hannibal wasn't even really a villain, if anything I kinda liked the guy.

[Nighthawk 0]

I thought the problem was with "the greatest movie villain ever in this movie". Like he could be a movie villain in a book?

 

Greatest movie villain... I dunno, Dracula. Nosferatu, Lugosi, Christopher Lee... Gary Oldman. Take your pick.

[Scroby 0]

Choken One calling out anyone for being stupid is funny in itself.

 

I totally forget most of Batman Begins- what happened to the Scarecrow at the end of the movie, that would cause him to be part of the fake Batman in TDK

On Comcast On-demand there were GCN news segments, in one of the segments, Mike Engel interviews Harvey Dent and asks him about the Scarecrow and mentions that the body was never found and asked Dent if the Scarecrow was indeed dead or alive? Dent said that the Gothem police force had given up on the search and he was presumed dead. I also don't think he was with the fake Batmen.

I think Batman just tied Crane up with the fake Batmen.

[Nightwing 0]

Crane wasn't with them. He was attacked by them. The Fake Batmen were trying to bust his drug meeting up, it got out of hand, and then Batman tied them all up together for the police to sort out.

[At Home 0]

How about you just CGI Ledger?

[bob_barron 0]

Thank you guys for clarifying.

[Ravenbomb 0]

Was anybody else reminded a little bit of the Sons of Batman from Dark Knight Returns with the imposter Batmen? Not saying that's what they were doing, it just reminded me of them a little.

 

On a similar note, the way Batman jumped onto Scarecrow's truck in that scene reminded me a bit of the chainsaw drop in American Psycho.

 

 

 

As for best villain, Nurse Rached in One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest is my pick.

[Nighthawk 0]

Lame pick, man. Ain't gon' let no bitch hit me.

[Scroby 0]

Thank you guys for clarifying.

You're welcome. *Thumbs up*