The Dark Knight

[At Home 0]

What a terrible movie that would be.

[BUTT 0]

In order for Mr. Freeze to be taken seriously, he needs to be played by a crunk rapper with diamonds in his teeth.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

I'm sorry...are you in someway suggesting that this wouldn't fit in to the Batman Begins/Dark Knight world?

 

 

...

 

CHILL!!!

[At Home 0]

How many ice/cold/chill puns were there in Batman & Robin? 6, maybe 7,000?

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJWpmPGCR1c...feature=related

[Jingus 0]

You could find some way to make Freeze at least vaguely plausible. Nobody batted an eyelash at the ancient secret society of ninjas who destroyed entire civilizations used magic fear gas in Batman Begins.

[At Home 0]

 

"Well, that was just retarded."

[Jingus 0]

Yeah, when you spell it out like that, it sounds retarded. Or if you really think about the timeline of the Joker's actions, and how he somehow plants like five thousand bombs in about half an hour. When looked at logically in the cold light of day, it doesn't make sense. Or even the central concept: a billionare goes out at night and beats up criminals while dressed as a bat. But during the movie it felt reasonable from the way the filmmakers handled everything. You can make any story feel plausible as long as it's told well enough.

[At Home 0]

We can go back and examine all that now, but the willful suspension of disbelief only goes so far. I don't remember much of Batman Begins so I can't comment on that, but who's not to say that I wouldn't pull punches on that? The Dark Night is the better movie of the two, and for good reason. One being the portrayal of the main villain. The Joker isn't some crazy mystery. We know who he is and what he's up to. Of course, we don't know all the details of his plan, but that's to be expected. Besides, the whole bomb scattering thing isn't a question of just plain weird characterizations or anything. Mr. Freeze is a one trick pony, and I just can't imagine how a guy who freezes people can be taken seriously in the kind of movie that is looking for realism. Bombs, knives, those sorts of things, they're all real, and that's the attraction. Freeze rays? I don't think so. AFAIK, he's not even that important of a villain in the mainstay of the series.

[Jingus 0]

The traditional Freeze is the guy in the spacesuit with the ice gun, sure. But Nolan & Co. have proven very adept at retconning the old comic characters into somewhat more realistic versions for the big screen. The traditional Joker tended to use weapons like acid-filleded squirting flowers, spring-loaded boxing gloves, and his deadly laughing gas; not just knives, guns, and bombs. He also had been dropped in a vat of chemicals so his face and hair were permanently discoloured. The traditional Scarecrow had a whole bunch of crazy varieties of scare drugs, and dressed up like a full-body freakin' scarecrow, with straw coming out of his shirt and everything. The traditional Ra's Al Ghul was a centuries-old, nearly immortal sorceror. All of these guys had their characteristics pretty thoroughly changed. You'd think they could do the same thing with almost any villain, short of someone like Clayface, Man-Bat, or John Dee where their entire character is based around abilities which are more or less impossible in anything resembling the real world.

 

EDIT: really, pretty much all of the Batman villains are cartoony in one way or another. Really, all of them are written as being pretty outlandish. Some of the more modern guys like Bane, Hush, or Black Mask aren't quite as goofy as the Riddlers or Penguins of yore, but they'd still all need some significant remodelling before appearing on movie screens.

 

Hey, random idea: I know that everyone involved in the current series has said very emphatically that they would not incorporate Robin into any new films. But... what if they went the Jason Todd route? I could see the death of an inexperienced teenage wannabe sidekick fitting into this sort of vision.

[At Home 0]

I see your point Jingus, but I just remain that I wouldn't buy into it if it became manifested. I think it would be just too large of a hurdle to make Mr. Freeze a believable and realistic character to even consider incorporating. It's fine to ignore certain aspects of the original characters to try and fit in with the aesthetic of the movie, but to make Freeze Nolan-worthy would mean stripping him of his essential aspects.

[Jingus 0]

I'm not even saying they should use him. Freeze was never one of my favorite characters, even before Schumacher and Schwarzennegger took turns gang-raping him and then made him walk all the way home naked and crying while putting out cigarettes on him the whole time. I just think if Nolan, Goyer, et al put their minds to it, they could definitely change him into something good enough, at least for a Scarecrow-type throwaway jobber villain for Batman to smash.

[DarKnight 0]

The only way Freeze will make the big screen again is if Nolan's not directing. I think the movies after Nolan should follow the same style, as in realistic, but they might have to incorporate more supernatural villains. Poison Ivy, and Mr. Freeze could work very well in a realistic world I think. You just have to make them seem convincing, as in good CGI, and well written. The animated series did a good job of this. They took those characters and grounded them in reality.

[haws bah gawd 0]

Batman TAS is one of the finest achievements in afternoon animation, ever. I remember when it first started when I was in 6th grade and I couldn't wait to get home to watch it on FOX every afternoon. I remember for a while it got moved to FOX Sunday nights. If Nolan were able to represent some of the characters in the same way that TAS did, they could retain a lot of the realism, IMO. Just for the love of god, keep the Bat Jet/Plane/Boat, whatever out of the new movies.

 

The girlfriend and I are probably going to see TDK again this week. Great movie, and for 2 and a half hours, it never dragged or got boring. Amazing!

[Brett Favre 0]

I think Nolan already said he wouldn't do Mr. Freeze, so forget about it. If I had to guess, he'll go with some combination of Black Mask, Riddler, Bane, or Penguin.

[ChrisMWaters 0]

The question is, how long can you keep this version of Batman away from the fantastical?

 

I mean, if not them putting the actual villains that have such traits into the movies, then there's still the possibility of Batman crossing over to areas of the more fantastical...at the very least meeting Superman (which was talked about before either Batman Begins or Superman Returns was made).

 

Just an idle thought...since I'm pretty sure DC will want to do a Justice League movie if Marvel's Avengers movie is any good.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

they wanted to do a Justice League movie before. I think IIRC they decided even at the early planning stages of that to keep Bale's batman seperate from it since it was a succesful franchise.

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

The question is, how long can you keep this version of Batman away from the fantastical?

Until the franchise is over. At the moment you get into falling into chemicals or having supernatural powers, this film series stops being interesting. As long as Nolan and Bale are involved I'm certain there won't be anything more than people doing things to other people.

[DarKnight 0]

The question is, how long can you keep this version of Batman away from the fantastical?

 

Well, I've wondered this question myself, since Batman has very good villains that are supernatural. If Nolan said he wouldn't do Mr. Freeze, well, I couldn't blame him, because I don't think Freeze has any drawing power anymore. Same thing with Ivy and Bane. I think Freeze and Ivy were only popular in the 90's because of the animated series. That begs the question, why do so many people want to see Bane in the next movie? Talk about a character who is dated, and a one trick pony, its obviously him. Just because he broke Batman's back doesn't mean he's a good villain.

[Black Lushus 0]

Let's face it, they have to think about the mainstream as well as the die hards...that means you're getting either Riddler, Catwoman or Penguin in the next one (or a combination of the 3). I admit I was surprised they went with Ra's Al Ghul and Scarecrow in the first one, but there was a purpose with that: Begins was about reintroducing us to Batman and it's hard to do when you have Joker stealing the scene so you give him lesser known foes. At this point, in order to keep the momentum that Dark Knight has created going, you almost HAVE to go with the next in line for his well known foes. Especially if Nolan is going to continue to go with the "more realistic" approach, meaning no silver men in suits freezing everything in site.

[luke-o 0]

I watched Batman Returns for the first time in like forever last night.

 

That film is pretty cack, I seriously didn't remember it being that bad. It's just your average Tim Burton movie that's trying to be a Batman movie.

[Black Lushus 0]

I did like his take on the Penguin though, some good ideas there. Didn't care for Catwoman.

[Obi Chris Kenobi 0]

Saw the film today, totally awesome! I couldn't help but wonder if they're leading this all up to a big Batman v Bane show down somewhere down the line - that would be awesome. Hope Two Face isn't gone, as his build up was truely amazing, if anything this film was more about Harvey Dent then it was about Batman and the Joker. Saying that, we'll never see The Joker again, Ledger was awesome, and anyone trying to be The Joker in the next few years will have to live in his shadow of his last performance.

 

Who could the next Villain be? The thing I always like about Batman is that it was based around some reality. The Ventriloquist? That could have some potential in it, though he never was any major player, but could allow for some good acting and 'pyschological' aspects. Hopefully The Mad Hatter never shows light of day - and how would you explain Killer Croc.

 

 

The question is, how long can you keep this version of Batman away from the fantastical?

 

Well, I've wondered this question myself, since Batman has very good villains that are supernatural. If Nolan said he wouldn't do Mr. Freeze, well, I couldn't blame him, because I don't think Freeze has any drawing power anymore. Same thing with Ivy and Bane. I think Freeze and Ivy were only popular in the 90's because of the animated series. That begs the question, why do so many people want to see Bane in the next movie? Talk about a character who is dated, and a one trick pony, its obviously him. Just because he broke Batman's back doesn't mean he's a good villain.

There's alot more to Bane about that, he was pretty intelligent and a master of combat. He was basically built up to the be the 'Evil' Batman in all the comics I ever read. The movie ruined him as some drug taking Goon - in truth he's a Mastermind.

[cd213 0]

I can actually see Poison Ivy working, if they really wanted to add her in. I'm not a fan of that character, but with everyone so environmentally conscience now-a-days, that is a chracter that might be able to work.

[Obi Chris Kenobi 0]

I can actually see Poison Ivy working, if they really wanted to add her in. I'm not a fan of that character, but with everyone so environmentally conscience now-a-days, that is a chracter that might be able to work.

 

In the Nolan world, she'd be a Hooker that gives people STDs.

[Dandy 0]

It's been done to death, but has that ever stopped us before? My hopeful villains, complete with actor/actress, and brief synopsis on each. I don't think all of these would be in the same movie, mind you.

 

The Penguin---Bob Hoskins "Penguin" is a nickname for Oswald Cobblepot, an aristocrat that owns a high-end nightclub, and uses it to launder money and run drugs and guns. Batman needs to stop his operation because he is flooding the streets with guns, escalating the homicide rate for the city.

 

 

The Riddler---Michael Emerson Edward Nashton, who goes by the alias Edward Nygma, is an obsessive-compulsive genius who is struggling to make ends meet. He has two failed businesses behind him, and decides to put his brain to use to pull off a heist. He leaves a strange riddle at the scene to throw off the cops, and the media dubs the unknown crook "The Riddler." It becomes a compulsion for him to match wits with the police, and eventually Batman by leaving riddles and clues to his heists and thefts.

 

Well shit, I have to leave. More to come later.

[DarKnight 0]

Let's face it, they have to think about the mainstream as well as the die hards...that means you're getting either Riddler, Catwoman or Penguin in the next one (or a combination of the 3). I admit I was surprised they went with Ra's Al Ghul and Scarecrow in the first one, but there was a purpose with that: Begins was about reintroducing us to Batman and it's hard to do when you have Joker stealing the scene so you give him lesser known foes. At this point, in order to keep the momentum that Dark Knight has created going, you almost HAVE to go with the next in line for his well known foes. Especially if Nolan is going to continue to go with the "more realistic" approach, meaning no silver men in suits freezing everything in site.

 

Exactly. Thats why I want all of this Bane silliness to go away. He pretty much has zero shot at ever being on the big screen again. And I know Bane is a mastermind and all, but like I've stated before, he's also a coward. I know the other villains won't win a straight on fight with Batman neither, but they at least try, they're not afraid of him. And Bane was the worst part of knightfall, as villains like Zsaz, Joker, and Scarecrow all steal the show.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

Fun fact: Batman Returns is Katie Lea Burchill's favourite movie.

[Obi Chris Kenobi 0]

While we're at it, I want to give huge credit to the composer - the ambient feedback that pitched its way through the movie when The Joker was about was awesome, absolutely awesome.

[Ravenbomb 0]

Agreed. I didn't even pick up on it until the second time I saw the movie.