The Dark Knight

[Atticus Chaos 0]

I think what seperates Batman and robin from the other bad comic book movies like Catwoman and Elektra, is that it has a lot of camp value. Its so over the top its pretty hard not to find something amusing in it: Arnold's lines, Uma vamping it up, Alicia Silverstone trying to act tough, the total lack of regard for gravity in the action scenes. Its sort of a tribute to the old tv show.

[Guest Smues]

Re: The four movies before Begins. IMO Batman was really good, returns and forever kind of sucked but were ok, and B&R were awful. How faithful they are to the comics doesn't determine if they are good MOVIES or not.

 

Just saw Dark Knight last night. Thought it was really good, but nothing I'll be rushing to see again. I do need to appologize to Katie Holmes. She still SUCKED ASS in Begins, but some of that must have just been the character, because Maggie whats her name didn't make the character any better. The Rachel character is just inherantly awful I guess.

 

Thank god she died. I just about let out of a cheer when that happened.

 

I though the whole 'Batman goes to China' scene was fairly pointless, and easily could have been trimmed. Will the next Batman movie end with him being kidnapped on a Chinese boat with some guy telling him that the Chinese never forget?

 

Harvey Dent was awesome, and knowing he's going to fall from grace and become two face sucked. I don't like tragedies, especially ones where you know what's going to happen in advance. I thought the two-face turn was well done and not quite as tacked on as Spider-man 3 Venom, but still could have been better served in the third movie. I don't quite understand why Batman has to take responsibility for killing Dent's victims. There weren't any witnesses that I remember, why can't they just say it was the Joker or any number of random criminals? And I must be more republican than I realized, because with the exception of going after Gordon's family I didn't think he really did anything bad, just taking out some mobsters and dirty cops.

 

I didn't like how EVERYTHING the Joker did went according to his plan. The boats didn't blow up was about the only thing that didn't. Everything just went too perfectly.

 

Did we really need a cameo by the Scarecrow?

 

Fox being opposed to President Bush's Batman's wiretapping cellphone sonar thing was pretty lame too. The Joker's killed a bunch of people, and proven himself to be unstoppable and he intends to kill more, but nope I'm sorry I'm quitting if you're going to use people's cellphones to catch him. While we're listening for the Joker we might overhear someone ordering a Gotham City Pizza from Dominos and that would just be immoral. I quit!

 

I wish someone had managed to kill that douchebag that was going to reveal Batman's identity.

 

I didn't care for the ending at all, with Batman taking the blame and being the scapegoat and yadda yadda. But that's just me, I prefer my superheroes to be the kind the general public likes, not this anti-hero garbage.

 

Did I mention how glad I am they killed Rachel?

[Exslade ZX 0]

I though the whole 'Batman goes to China' scene was fairly pointless, and easily could have been trimmed. Will the next Batman movie end with him being kidnapped on a Chinese boat with some guy telling him that the Chinese never forget?

 

Harvey Dent was awesome, and knowing he's going to fall from grace and become two face sucked. I don't like tragedies, especially ones where you know what's going to happen in advance. I thought the two-face turn was well done and not quite as tacked on as Spider-man 3 Venom, but still could have been better served in the third movie. I don't quite understand why Batman has to take responsibility for killing Dent's victims. There weren't any witnesses that I remember, why can't they just say it was the Joker or any number of random criminals? And I must be more republican than I realized, because with the exception of going after Gordon's family I didn't think he really did anything bad, just taking out some mobsters and dirty cops.

I thought the Batman going to China thing was pretty cool, as it fueled the fire to the "Batman has no boundaries" concept. (And I know this is a bad term to use, but "in kayfabe") It showed the criminals, they think Batman is just gonna fuck with them in Gotham, but he's proven he goes beyond that. And that helps the whole 'Batman is a myth' thought.

 

And as for the last comment, well that would be lying. I know technically, they're lying anyways, but taking the blame for something, and flat out saying someone else did it is different. Not to mention if he said, for instance, the Joker did it. Well Joker could simply say, no I didn't, Dent did it. Something Batman won't do. (And maybe not so much in the movies, but in the comics, Joker's proven he can usually get people/civilians, to believe what he says, so I don't think they would want want that.)

 

Are we at the point where spoiler tags aren't needed anymore? Because that's a lot of black. And a random smiley.

[bobobrazil1984 0]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=LSEm3SyCHKE

 

God the Joker was so good in this movie

[luke-o 0]

I can't remember who said it earlier, but Burton did get lucky with Batman 89 and heres why.

 

Burton has said of his own accotd that he has NEVER read a comic in his life let alone a Batman comic. His only knowledge of the character was the campy 60s TV show. So he took that and put his gothic spin on it (becuase he's a shitty director) and got the tone right, but the charactrisation was horrible. In other words, he got lucky. If Burton wasn't a usless gothic director, it would have been another film version of the 60s show.

 

Returns is again good in tone but lacking in characterisation. But the last 20 minutes or so suck ass.

 

Forver is the Batman film the studios wanted. It was fun and kid friendly. Not a terrible film but certainly not a great one.

 

& Robin is really, really fucking bad. It's pretty much terrible on all accounts. Bad acting, bad script, bad characters, bad story and lame action sequences. It's a really bad movie, and for what may be the first time ever, I agree with Jingus that Batman and Robin is the worst superhero movie ever made.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

I can at least sit through and watch B&R (and just did a few hours ago) so I have to give it that. It's terrible but I don't mind watching it and saying "hey, that's stupid!" (seriously, sky surfing on metal doors?).

 

Thanks for the Smashing Pumpkins song correction, whoever (I forgot).

[ChrisMWaters 0]

I can at least sit through and watch B&R (and just did a few hours ago) so I have to give it that. It's terrible but I don't mind watching it and saying "hey, that's stupid!" (seriously, sky surfing on metal doors?).

What's funny is 4 years later, Sega had Sonic rip that move off in "Sonic Adventure 2"

[DarKnight 0]

Glad to see that someone shares my opinion that Burton got lucky. Its like, since every comic fan saw that Burton's movie had a dark atmosphere and tone to it, they thought it was a faithful adaptation. It wasn't. And since Burton got full creative control over Returns, he fucked that one up even more. I don't even need to comment on why the next 2 sucked, since everyone knows why. I guess I could say that the studio got involved too much. And I too don't think Batman and Robin is the worst comic movie. I would easily say that Superman 4, Catwoman, and Elektra are far worse movies. See, Batman and Robin is at least campy, so its kind of so bad its good to watch. I mean, some of Freeze's jokes are so bad, that I had to laugh. I wouldn't call Batman an anti-hero at all. Anti-heroes are people like the Punisher and such. People who actually kill the bad guys.

[RedJed 0]

Electra hands down would be my pick for worst comic movie ever. Just unbearably hard to sit through the nonsense.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

I would much rather watch B&R than Superman Returns. The latter is obviously better made from a film standard (I don't recall any scenes that were blatantly REWOUND ON SCREEN) but I found it just so dreadfully boring as well as stupid, but not the kind of stupid I could laugh at.

[Anakin Flair 0]

I can't remember who said it earlier, but Burton did get lucky with Batman 89 and heres why.

 

Burton has said of his own accotd that he has NEVER read a comic in his life let alone a Batman comic. His only knowledge of the character was the campy 60s TV show. So he took that and put his gothic spin on it (becuase he's a shitty director) and got the tone right, but the charactrisation was horrible. In other words, he got lucky. If Burton wasn't a usless gothic director, it would have been another film version of the 60s show.

 

Returns is again good in tone but lacking in characterisation. But the last 20 minutes or so suck ass.

 

Forver is the Batman film the studios wanted. It was fun and kid friendly. Not a terrible film but certainly not a great one.

 

& Robin is really, really fucking bad. It's pretty much terrible on all accounts. Bad acting, bad script, bad characters, bad story and lame action sequences. It's a really bad movie, and for what may be the first time ever, I agree with Jingus that Batman and Robin is the worst superhero movie ever made.

 

I don't think that Burton is a shitty directory, I just think that he's a one-trick pony. Even George Lucas tried something different with American Graffiti, but Burton's movies are always the same gothic emo-crap. But looking back, now that I am a fan of the comics and do know how Bruce Wayne is supposed to be, I do agree that Burton got incredibly lucky with the first Batman, but that the characterizations were all wrong.

[Jingus 0]

I don't think that Burton is a shitty directory, I just think that he's a one-trick pony. Even George Lucas tried something different with American Graffiti, but Burton's movies are always the same gothic emo-crap.

Ed Wood disagrees with you. So does Planet of the Apes, but it disagrees in a mumbling drunken fashion and despite the fact that its argument is sound, nobody wants to hear it anyway.

[Nighthawk 0]

You also begun by saying he was not a shitty director, then finished by classifying his movies as "crap".

[Mik 0]

Big Fish is a fantastic movie.

[King Kamala 0]

I recognize that Tim Burton is definitely more style than substance. Yet I can only think of one movie of his that I wasn't entertained by (Planet of The Apes) and he has two that are in My Top 10 All Time Favorites (Big Fish and Ed Wood). I even liked his version of Charlie and The Chocolate Factory

[Anakin Flair 0]

You also begun by saying he was not a shitty director, then finished by classifying his movies as "crap".

 

Eh, emo-crap was a bad choice of words. And I have no problems with his movies- but they all seem the same. Though I do admit that I have never seen Ed Wood.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

Ed Wood is my second favorite movie of all time. Just brilliant.

[cabbageboy 0]

I wouldn't say Pee Wee's Big Adventure really fits Burton's gothic schtick either. Burton is either about the goth stuff or the "outsider misfit" plot (Pee Wee, Ed Wood....Edward Scissorhands is both).

 

Ed Wood was a great movie. I actually saw that twice at the theater, which was no easy feat considering it had maybe 1 week in the first run house, then 1 more week at the 2nd run theater.

[Anakin Flair 0]

Jesus, I forgot Burton did Pee Wee's Big Adventure. I don't remember it being gothic, but it certainly was dark, from what I remember. But the last time I saw it was several years ago.

[Guest Smues]

Burton just needs to stick to original scripts and his own stuff. When he 'adapts' something he fucks it up. I'm still pissed about Planet of the Apes.

[King Kamala 0]

I can agree with that. His original movies are generally good. But his track record with adaptations is spotty at best. His Batman movies haven't really aged well at all (I still like '89 overall and I enjoy parts of Batman Returns) and Charlie and The Chocolate Factory was met with indifference at best.

 

Oh and I don't think I've ever hated a movie as much as I hated his adaptation of Planet of The Apes. I mean, there are probably dozens of worse movies but something about that triggered the angry Planet of The Apes fan in me. I loved the first four movies (Conquest as far as I'm concerned didn't happen. Same with the ensuing TV series) but I haven't even watched them since the remake came out. That's how much I hate that movie.

[godthedog 0]

burton has certain things he really likes to do, and sometimes he gets to direct scripts that are really good. those 2 things seldom have anything to do with each other. he can turn a good script into a great movie, but with so-so or bad material he just focuses on the self-indulgent burtonesque things (costumes, set design, tone, danny elfman music, etc.), and it doesn't really help.

 

'batman 89' had a great look, awesome music, and exactly the right dark, menacing, larger-than-life tone. it's what made people want to see more batman. it also had cardboard characters and a shitty story that made no sense. based on his track record, i think burton deserves credit for all those things. not only would 'batman: TAS' have never happened were it not for the movie--even if it did, it wouldn't have been nearly as good, because it basically took all the great aesthetic things from burton and added good characters & interesting stories.

[luke-o 0]

Burton just needs to stick to original scripts and his own stuff. When he 'adapts' something he fucks it up. I'm still pissed about Planet of the Apes.

 

That was terrible. I also didn't like Charlie and The Chocolate Factory or Sweeny Todd.

 

I've not seen Ed Wood, I'll have to check it out and see if it's the good apple of the shitty Burton bunch.

[Guest Smues]

I can agree with that. His original movies are generally good. But his track record with adaptations is spotty at best. His Batman movies haven't really aged well at all (I still like '89 overall and I enjoy parts of Batman Returns) and Charlie and The Chocolate Factory was met with indifference at best.

 

Oh and I don't think I've ever hated a movie as much as I hated his adaptation of Planet of The Apes. I mean, there are probably dozens of worse movies but something about that triggered the angry Planet of The Apes fan in me. I loved the first four movies (Conquest as far as I'm concerned didn't happen. Same with the ensuing TV series) but I haven't even watched them since the remake came out. That's how much I hate that movie.

 

You pretend Conquest didn't happen but not Battle? I'm thinking you're confusing the two? (Conquest = the 4th film and the Ape's rise. Battle = 5th film and ape has killed ape, ape has killed ape, ape has killed ape, ape has killed ape, ape has killed ape, ape has killed ape, ape has killed ape, ape has killed ape, ape has killed ape, ape has killed ape, ape has killed ape, ape has killed ape, ape has killed ape, ape has killed ape, ape has killed ape, ape has killed ape, ape has killed ape, ape has killed ape, ape has killed ape, ape has killed ape, ape has killed ape, ape has killed ape, ape has killed ape, ape has killed ape, ape has killed ape, ape has killed ape, ape has killed ape, ape has killed ape, ape has killed ape, ape has killed ape, ape has killed ape, ape has killed ape, ape has killed ape, ape has killed ape, ape has killed ape, ape has killed ape, ape has killed ape, ape has killed ape, ape has killed ape, ape has killed ape, ape has killed ape, ape has killed ape, ape has killed ape, ape has killed ape, ape has killed ape)

[King Kamala 0]

Shit, I was confusing the two. What a brainfart. Conquest is my second favorite behind the first.

[Ravenbomb 0]

Yeah, Conquest was awesome.

[DarKnight 0]

Yeah, I too thought Conquest was cool as hell. Burton's Planet of the Apes didn't make me mad or anything, I just thought it was unspectacular. I will say that Burton's visual style is great, but I don't really like the gothic look of the first two Batman movies. Batman should be grounded in reality, which Nolan has done a great job of doing, but Burton's Batman movies feel like dark fantasy type stuff. I think the only reason why his Batman movies don't get trashed is because there was 1 good performance in each movie. Jack Nicholson in the first movie(although Ledger's performance blows his out of the water) and Michelle Pfifher in the second one. Besides those two performances, those movies are unwatchable.

[King Kamala 0]

I think Nolan's Batman is way more grounded in reality and better than Burton's but I don't think it's "truer to the comic". Jingus put it best in his review on The Pit, The Dark Knight does as good of a real life portrayal as you can of a crazy guy dressed as a scuzzy clown battling a crazy, rich vigilante dressed as a bat but the whole idea of Batman leans more towards fantasy than reality.

 

 

Just for kicks, here's my rankings of the original Planet of The Apes series while we're on the subject

 

1. Planet of the Apes

2. Conquest of the Planet of the Apes

3. Escape from the Planet of the Apes

4. Beneath the Planet of the Apes (Basically this one is the first movie except less good)

5. Battle of the Planet of the Apes (ape has killed ape. ape has killed ape. ape has killed ape. ape has killed ape. ape has killed ape. ape has killed ape. why was John Huston in this? ape has killed ape. ape has killed ape. ape has killed ape. ape has killed ape. ape has killed ape.)

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

You know who would be a good Nolan Batman villain? Sewer King.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Burton just needs to stick to original scripts and his own stuff. When he 'adapts' something he fucks it up. I'm still pissed about Planet of the Apes.

 

That was terrible. I also didn't like Charlie and The Chocolate Factory or Sweeny Todd.

 

I've not seen Ed Wood, I'll have to check it out and see if it's the good apple of the shitty Burton bunch.

 

Sleepy Hollow was garbage too. I've never seen Sweeney Todd though.