NBA Playoffs 2007: Conference Finals

[Guest]

They aren't a very good team. Is that better.

 

When thinking of the sum of their parts, I will never be able to be convinced that they are a very good team. However, you only need three quality parts (if that) to get deep in the East. I think Cleveland has that.

 

Having one of the best five players on the planet doesn't hurt either.

[Precious Roy 0]

I wouldn't say LeBron coasted, more like he lacked focus at times, and it seemed like he was putting too much pressure on himself in some games. His free throw shooting was really inconsistent and he made some bad decisions/shot attempts late in games. It's a maturity thing, maybe you can chalk that up to still feeling the sting of losing last year and looking ahead toward the playoffs, or trying to strike the balance between being the playmaker and the go-to scorer. You've got to give him credit for putting it all together again and getting himself in a killer zone right now.

 

The rest of the team really wasn't very good this year. After LeBron, Sasha Pavlovich might have been their most consistent player. Hughes and Gooden are their next best players and both are really inconsistent. Gooden has been really good in the playoffs though. Gibson has played a huge roll for them in the playoffs and didn't really do anything in the regular season. Z I think totally coasted in the regular season, but he's been valuable in the playoffs with his hustle and experience, he and Snow are the only real vets on the team and Z does a lot of little things out there to cause mismatches. Damon Jones got lit up all season long, and Snow is too old to bring it every night. The entire team has stepped up in the playoffs.

[Just John 0]

Amidst all this Lebron greatness talk, I think we should remember this whole Detroit series isn't over yet. Last time these teams met in the playoffs, they were in basically the same situation after Game 5. Now, I will concede last year's Game 5 was not the emphatic statement game like this year's, but let's not count out the possibility of a Detroit win just yet.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

And I agree, this is the game that takes Lebron from superstar to legend.

one

 

game.

 

You're all such a bunch of rubes. Booyah!

I phrased that poorly Czech. I didn't mean to say that he is now a legend. I was trying to say that when we look back at his career this will be the game that they reference as the point when he made the leap. I'm not in the whole "instantly better than Jordan" camp.

[Guest George's Box]

I really don't like being told by the Booyahs that I have to like LeBron James. Why should I be pulling for a guy in my team's division who is going to give my team a lot of trouble for the next 15 years and smother us with stupid endorsements and SNL appearances and all that? It's like expecting Pistons fans to root for Jordan. I don't care how great he is. I want the cocksucker to be the next Eric Lindros. If it looks like the Cavaliers are going to win the series tonight, the Pistons better just rack up flagrants in the closing minutes. I'm talking real hard fouls. Flatten his nose even further. If they're really the new Bad Boys, they'll go down swinging.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Flatten his nose even further.

 

[Ripper 0]

You know...doubling off that daniel gibson guy might not be that great of a idea

[Mik 0]

Well, Rasheed won't be around to do it.

 

What a meltdown.

 

He's probably just mad because Drew Gooden ripped out a piece of his hair and wears it on the back of his neck as a trophy.

[Ripper 0]

Why is eric snow in the game?

[Bruiser Chong 0]

Embarrassing. This is why I don't buy into the playoff experience non-sense. We do that and I'm thinking Detroit's never seen a playoff game, let alone won one. Sheed's act is stale when he isn't doing anything on the floor to cancel it out. The Cavs really didn't need to ridiculous foul calls in their favor; Detroit shit the bed just fine on their own.

 

Looks like I'm behind the Spurs for the first time in my life. Like with the Heat last year, I absolutely refuse to back a team the NBA is so desperate to win it all because of one player.

[MFer 0]

This series makes me embarrassed to be a Pistons fans plain and simple. Yes Cleveland's much better than people gave them credit for prior to now, but there's no way in hell they should be able to beat Detroit four straight times. The fact that Cleveland's pretty much fodder for the Spurs hardly even matters to me. Detroit's lacksidasical, arrogant, care-free approach to the game of basketball followed by periods of lost composure caught up with them last year and again this year. Flip Saunders shit the bed once again in the playoffs and I definitely won't cry if he gets canned this offseason. I can't help but think that if Big Ben was still around, Detroit might've won this series. I have no idea what's gonna happen to Detroit this offseason, but Joe D. better make the right moves or else LeBron/Wade (with some Bosh and Dwight thrown in) will be running the East for the next decade. Overall, I would say ending up with only one NBA championship out of all those ECF appearances puts them just about on par with the Atlanta Braves, basically meaning that this era was a disappointment. I think the refs did suck ass tonight, but the Cavs won fair and square and I'll be rooting for San Antonio in the Finals.

[Precious Roy 0]

It's fucking crazy how the Pistons just slowly let LeBron and the Cavs get in their heads and completely imploded. This is the game where you expect to see some swagger, championship pride and a fuck you attitude and they just didn't have it. I think between Flip Saunders, Rasheed and Billups the dysfunction of the team really came to the forefront. Rasheed reverted to his Portland persona of completely melting down in a do or die situation. Billups looked like he'd already filed for free agency. Flip looked clueless as usual as he hung on for dear life, inferior to his star players who are all walking around wearing Larry Brown's ring.

 

I really thought the 4/5 of their starting five had their heads together to prove that they could do it without Larry Brown and Ben Wallace, but they peaked beating the Bulls. I think beating Big Ben was their championship and they just lost focus at the first sign of adversity after that.

 

The Cavs and LeBron looked great. Daniel Gibson made himself a star. I hope the Spurs kick the shit out of them.

[alfdogg 0]

As much as I've ran down the Cavs leading into and throughout the playoffs, I'm thrilled to see that they proved me wrong. I am so sick of the Pistons; I can't recall seeing a bigger bunch of crybabies and self-promoters in my entire time watching basketball. Nothing personal, Detroit fans.

[Just John 0]

I noticed a very huge discrepancy in the attempted FT's column in Cleveland's favor. Perhaps there was no way the Cavs were going to lose this one, but man, that was a pretty asstacular performance by Detroit. For a veteran team that was "hungry for a title" they showed no heart and completely embarrassed themselves in this series. A lot of people will be quick to put the blame on Flip (who I wouldn't be surprised to see gone this offseason), and I think he deserves some for not being able to get his team focused. But on the other hand, if you need to focus a team with more than 900 games of total playoff experience, something's inherently wrong with that team. If I were a Pistons fan, I'd be incredibly pissed at this non-effort.

 

Here's a question to ponder: Which team had the most heartless performance this postseason: Detroit (vs. Cleveland) or Dallas (vs. Golden State)?

[The Niggardly King 0]

Cavs in 6

 

SLAM ANTONIO in 5

 

BWAHAHAHA

[alfdogg 0]

KOAB

 

June 07 - ???

[Guest George's Box]

If I were a Pistons fan, I'd be incredibly pissed at this non-effort.

What if you're a Bulls fan who had to watch the Pistons vacillate between whether or not they wanted to win the series, decide that they did, then decide they didn't want to win the next one? Ain't that something?

[bobobrazil1984 0]

Between Wade last year and Lebron this year, the Pistons team slowing down a superstar is pretty much done, I think. Between the personnel, the coach, the system, and the rule changes and changes in defensive "allowing" by the refs on perimeter players, that's pretty much over.

I really think its time the Pistons pursue a legit "superstar".

 

If they could get a really good perimeter scorer, along with Tayshaun and Rasheed, would make a hell of a trio core.

 

I say take this opportunity to completely retool the team. Let Webber walk, look into signing and trading Billups, attached with another player maybe, promote Maxiell to full starter or at least top 6th man, fire Flip and hire someone who's more of a hardass.

Detroit also has a 16 and a 24 (?) pick draft so draft wisely, or possibly package both picks and move up in the draft.

 

fantasy-land, if kobe still wanted to be traded, you'd have to think a S&T Billups and Rip plus a pick (or young guy) would be one of the better packages the lakers could get, as they'd instantly have one of the best backcourts in the West and a chance at a young guy. I Don't think this has a chance in hell of happening but I'd love to see it.

 

as far as coaches go, the Flipper is not soley to blame for this - but I do think that he is not a championship coach, period. I dunno, I have to think Larry Brown would have a better defensive gameplan going into game 5 and if not that, then for sure game 6. There's just this vibe that when the going gets tough, you go to him and he always look nervous and twitchy as hell, and both years when the going got tough the players were questioning his strategies, system, him, etc, i mean how do you allow that when you're the coach? He should go coach college, I think he'd do great there.

I'd look into rolling the dice on Bill Lambeer. He's unproven at the NBA level, but virtually everyone's impressed by the grit he infused the detroit wnba team with, and he's said he learned everything he knows from chuck daly. i guarantee he wouldn't be a softie, he's liked by the organization, and it'd be interesting to see him coach 'Sheed.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Although they sort of get a pass for winning it all in '04, don't we have to consider these Pistons underachievers? Five consecutive conference finals appearances and only one ring to show for it? They were also beaten by inferior teams three times (NJ, Miami and Cleveland).

 

Chauncey Billups just completely disappears in big spots and the team doesn't seem to have that second gear that is required to win big games. It might be time to blow this thing up. Billups isn't worth resigning, I could outcoach Flip in my sleep, the bench is paper thin and none of the core is getting any younger. I don't see how this team will compete in the east with Chicago, Cleveland, Miami, etc. all on the rise.

[Ripper 0]

Although they sort of get a pass for winning it all in '04, don't we have to consider these Pistons underachievers? Five consecutive conference finals appearances and only one ring to show for it? They were also beaten by inferior teams three times (NJ, Miami and Cleveland).

 

Chauncey Billups just completely disappears in big spots and the team doesn't seem to have that second gear that is required to win big games. It might be time to blow this thing up. Billups isn't worth resigning, I could outcoach Flip in my sleep, the bench is paper thin and none of the core is getting any younger. I don't see how this team will compete in the east with Chicago, Cleveland, Miami, etc. all on the rise.

 

Um...how was NJ or Miami inferior teams?

 

And how the hell does Billups just disappear in big spots. I swear dude, have a bad series and all history goes flying out the fucking window.

 

Detroits problem is that the A: Never post up Billups anymore which was pretty much unstoppable for a few years B: they Iso Rip now instead of running him off screens the way he used to C: they are so good one on one defensively that they never have to double anyone. So when they actually do need to double, they are completely lost on defense. D: They think they are better than any other team in the league and pick and choose when to play hard.

 

Billups isn't worth keeping if he is looking for a max contract. They need more depth at the guard positions because they are fucking stacked up front with Wallace, Mcdyess, Johnson, Maxiell, Mohammad, Webber and Davis. Thats just too many bigs.

 

Flip murray and the remains of Lindsey Hunter do not count as a reliable backup backcourt.

 

Basically, they are still a good team but everything from coaching to management has flaws in it. Tiny flaws that can easily be fixed.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Stolen from Bill Simmons' article last week:

 

1997-2001: Bounces around from Boston to Toronto to Denver to Orlando to Minnesota.

 

 

2002: Plays well enough for the T-Wolves (0-3 in the '02 playoffs) that Detroit gives him a $30 million contract.

 

 

2003: Leads a Pistons team that eventually gets swept in the 2003 Eastern finals by New Jersey … and gets destroyed by Jason Kidd in the process. Billups shot 11 for 40 in the series; Kidd averaged 23.5 points, 7.5 assists and 10 rebounds per game. To be fair, Billups was playing with a sprained ankle. Just pointing out that the "Mr. Big Shot" nickname hadn't kicked in yet.

 

 

2004: Shoots 39 percent in the regular season, gets hot in the playoffs, leads the Pistons to the title, makes some big shots along the way, and somehow picks up the name "Mr. Big Shot."

 

 

2005: Leads the Pistons to the Finals, makes some big shots along the way, then pulls a relative no-show in Game 7 (13 points, 3 for 8 from the field, no big shots).

 

 

2006: Heading into the playoffs, with the Pistons peaking as a 64-win team, I wrote that Billups was "one more killer spring away from moving into the pantheon of Big Game Guards, along with Sam Jones, Jerry West, Dennis Johnson and Walt Frazier. Out of anyone in the playoffs other than Kobe, he's the one who can make the biggest leap historically. Well, unless Artest charges into the stands again."

 

 

Didn't happen. During the last three games of the Eastern semis against Cleveland -- which the Pistons nearly blew -- Billups shot 13 for 34. In the six-game loss to Miami in the Eastern finals, he shot 39 percent and 3 for 14 in the deciding game. So much for the pantheon of Big Game Guards.

 

 

2007: Struggled in the Chicago series (39 percent shooting), then completely flopped in the first four games of the Cavs series (22-for-57 shooting, 32 turnovers, some killer mistakes at the end of Games 3 and 4), to the point that people are now openly wondering how much money he's costing himself this summer.

 

 

So here's my question: With all due respect to Billups -- who's been a valuable player, a gamer and a winner over the past few years -- can we really keep calling a 41 percent career shooter who slapped together one great playoffs and nine-tenths of another great playoffs "Mr. Big Shot"? Isn't that a little insulting to Robert Horry? I vote that we call him "Chauncey" or "Billups" unless he completely redeems himself over these next few weeks. This meeting is adjourned.

 

I'm overreacting when I say he disappears in big spots, but I also don't know what he's done to get such a bullet proof reputation. Take away '04 and he's a slightly above average point guard. He has good games and bad because he's flawed like everyone else. I don't think he's a max contract guy and I don't think he's the type that you build your team around.

[Ripper 0]

Don't quote Bill Simmons if you want a accurate portrayal of a players worth. Like him blaming KJ for Barkley not getting a championship the other day(what the fuck was HE watching). Or constantly calling marcus Banks the worse free agent signing of the offseason.

 

Basically what he just did was point out Billups bad games while ignoring that the very good one out numbered them greatly.

 

I will admit he had a bad series against the Cavs but come on. the guy didn't get the nickname for no reason. Clutch plays got him the nickname.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Okay, you make a fair point. I was only quoting Simmons because I didn't want to retype the information about his bad games. I'm not attempting to regurgitate his position.

 

Basically what he just did was point out Billups bad games while ignoring that the very good one out numbered them greatly.

 

At the same time, calling him "Mr. Big Shot" ignores all the times he's come up short. I'm not into the whole clutch or not clutch thing. I do think Billups is a good player, but he's not quite elite. He has his faults and he's not a max-money type player. Detroit might be better served by letting him walk and trying to reinvent the team around Prince and Hamilton.

[bobobrazil1984 0]

what he did before coming to Detroit is irrelevant to that discussion since the whole nickname/reputation came soley out of his time with the Pistons.

 

He first got that nickname locally in Detroit in 2002-03, his first season with the Pistons (the year they lost to NJ, who btw was the better team that year), after hitting a number of game winners during the regular season (including one particular buzzer beater that I saw many times on the detroit stations). ESPN and the nation-at-large crew picked up on it during the 04 playoffs I believe, particularly after the NJ half court triple in game 5.

[Brett Favre 0]

I'll say this about Billups. I'd feel pretty confident with him running my team.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

I'll say this about Billups. I'd feel pretty confident with him running my team.

That's because you have Stephon Marbury running yours.

[Brett Favre 0]

 

We're making the playoffs this year. Don't worry. With Marbury at the helm.