UFC 74

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Hey Rudo at least get the reference right and use AKA, not ATT.

 

Georges' toughest test to date, including Hughes and BJ, purely because of styles and the fact that he's coming off a devastating loss.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But that just means that we will see a stronger, meaner and all around more badass GSP this time around!

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Fuck that.

 

GSP needs his revenge on the filthy lil dago.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

I prefer wop.

 

Guinea would be acceptable, but that's far too endearing.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

It kinda sucks because I actually liked Matt Serra until he beat GSP. Is it a juvenile reason to not like somebody? Goddamn right. Will the hatred remain until Pasta Boy gets stomped? Goddamn right.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

He's been a bitch about the whole "GSP didn't take me seriously" thing. I actually lost a lot of respect for him over that. Acting very childish.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

See, I think the opposite. GSP came out of the fight looking like himself: cool, collected and humbled, totally willing to give Serra his props. Then he either became an idiot or somebody got in his ear and told him he needed to make excuses.

 

The only knock I've got against Serra (besides the obvious) is that he's pissed because people are spittin' truth about the entire situation. He was an underdog the first time, he'd be an underdog the second time and dudes like Sanchez, Karo, Koscheck and Penn would all be favored over him were he to fight any of them.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Patry got in GSP's ear I've heard, among other people in his crew. Not Vargotsky of course.

 

But Serra was a bitch to the point where he got GSP kicked out Renzo's school. That's way overboard and very catty, and therefore, bitchy.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Odd that you say Victor wasn't one of the dudes in GSP's ear yet GSP now isn't training with him. Whatsupwithdat?

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Im not in the city right now for the summer, but maybe that's why. Victor was one of the few guys not feeding him excuses on why he lost, while the other guys like Patry (a slimey fucking snake if there ever was one) probably tried to tell him it wasn't his fault, he didn't train alot(which is true, but still no excuses), etc. He wasn't trying to feed him excuses and maybe GSP was not too fond of someone who wasn't being a yes-man.

 

Also he went back to train with Fabio at BTT, a rival gym of Tristar where Victor is the head guy.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

GSP needs to stay the fuck away from Jacksons. MacDonald, Loiseau, Diego, Jardine, Marqurdt, Bocek have all fallen this year and Rashad only lost because Tito grabbed the cage. That place went from being the Camp De Jour to cursed in less then a year.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

UFC.com has officially added Clay Guida vs Marcus Aurelio and Frank Mir vs Antoni Hardonk to the card.

 

Updated Card

 

UFC Heavyweight Championship: Randy Couture vs Gabriel Gonzaga

 

UFC Welterweight #1 Contender Fight: Georges St. Pierre vs Josh Koscheck

 

Patrick Cote vs Kendall Grove

 

Clay Guida vs Marcus Aurelio

 

David Heath vs Babalu

 

Frank Mir vs Antoni Hardonk

 

The assumed 3 fights that will round out the card are Roger Huerta vs Alberto Crane, Joe Stevenson vs Kurt Pellegrino and Travis Lutter vs Ryan Jensen.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Stevenson's fight is already confirmed, I mean the guy's been on TV and stated he will be fighting Kurt at UFC 74, while Pellegrino's training partners like Hermes have mentioned how they are preparing him for this fight.

 

THIS card is stacked.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Yeah, there's only one title fight and I dunno if Randy's gonna Sherk his way through it. Doubtful he'll be able to with somebody that has Gabe's BJJ credentials underneath him. I look forward to actually seeing a full card this time.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

GSP needs to stay the fuck away from Jacksons. MacDonald, Loiseau, Diego, Jardine, Marqurdt, Bocek have all fallen this year and Rashad only lost because Tito grabbed the cage. That place went from being the Camp De Jour to cursed in less then a year.

 

Jason MacDonald is coming off a win against Rory Singer, it's not like he had a chance against an elite level MW like Rich Franklin anyway. I like Jason MacDaddy, but he is a career-long gatekeeper.

 

Loiseau just recently joined Jackson's camp after the Joey Villasenor loss, and is 1-0 since joining the camp.

 

Diego Sanchez had a nasty staph infection for the Koscheck. Although I'm a big Koscheck fan and I predict him to win, you can easily tell there was something wrong with Diego. He didn't push the pace of the fight, and didn't like like typical Diego Sanchez.

 

You're right about Jardine and Marquardt, but Bocek had no chance against the future LW champion Frankie Edgar, despite Rudo's man love for him.

 

As for the Rashad comment, that isn't really an accurate statement. If Tito didn't grab the cage, he would've been taken down which would've scored points for Rashad. But still Rashad made mistakes in the fight that should be corrected next time around. For example, going for a double leg takedown instead of a single leg takedown when Tito's legs are very far apart.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

Joe Stevenson vs Kurt Pellegrino is going to be really good. I give Pellegrino a great chance of an upset.

[starvenger 0]

Joe Stevenson vs Kurt Pellegrino is going to be really good. I give Pellegrino a great chance of an upset.

No doubt. Stevenson is still kinda raw. I just hope that Kurt doesn't "dance" again if he wins.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Lol, "kinda raw" = 40 plus fights?

[starvenger 0]

Lol, "kinda raw" = 40 plus fights?

You know what I mean. Quantity doesn't always equal quality. If that were the case Melvin Guillard and Shonie Carter would be UFC titleholders, and Dan Severn would be boring us to death in the HW division.

 

Joe's been on a roll at 155 but for whatever reason I still think that he's got some holes that a fighter can exploit. Of course I may be misjudging simply because the guy is 25.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

Joe Stevenson vs Kurt Pellegrino is going to be really good. I give Pellegrino a great chance of an upset.

No doubt. Stevenson is still kinda raw. I just hope that Kurt doesn't "dance" again if he wins.

 

Pellegrino has better BJJ, and he could catch Stevenson in a submission.

[Youth N Asia 0]

Little suprised that they brought Lutter back so quickly. After ruining a title match I thought he'd be on the shit list a while

[Lord of The Curry 0]

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say that Koscheck's striking, athleticism, and wrestling are another level than all of those guys. Also Trigg had a blown out ankle and Sherk is a 155'er.

 

Still funny though, and I hope that turns out to be true.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I disagree. Kos's wrestling may be better, but in terms of athleticism Hughes and Sherk are freaks of nature, and Trigg ain't a creampuff either. Striking-wise... when did Koscheck become a great striker? Not better than Sherk, technically, and Frank has some mean GnP. Let's stop drinking the Roganaid when it comes to Kos being anything more than a guy who loads up on his right.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Sherk is too small at 170 so I'm going to dismiss him entirely, he's said himself he simply wasn't big enough to compete with GSP and he's right.

 

His wrestling is worlds better, a lot of people said he had potential to get a gold medal, the only problem was that his weight class isn't really featured in the Olympics and he decided to do MMA instead. Smart choice I'd say. Baumgartner said he was on the same skill level as Cael Sanderson, who we all know is a beast. He was undefeated one year, that's unheard of in collegiate wrestling.

 

He's a lot more athletic, especially considering the ages of Hughes and Trigg when they fought GSP. Kos is in his prime. He's much more explosive than both of them. Matt Hughes and Sean Sherk are freaks of nature when it comes to conditioning and recovery, but Koscheck is on an equal playing field there. When it comes to quickness and explosiveness he's significantly better. I don't think this is debatable.

 

Striking-wise while he may not be the most technically sound his physical tools complement his style very well, and he's shown excellent strikes to set up takedowns. His boxing was very clean against Sanchez, although he did drop his hands a lot. Still, considering how he simply improves leaps and bounds every fight it wouldn't surprise me to see him come out even better this time. Will he outstrike GSP? No, but he will be smart about it to set up takedowns, unlike Trigg who reached out his arms with no set up whatsoever. Ditto with Hughes.

 

It's gonna be a coin toss, and I still want GSP to win, but it will be VERY tough. His toughest test to date. Also he's coming off a bad loss, I don't know if he wanted this fight right after that.

 

A good example to use in that picture would have been Hieron I think, as he's an awesome wrestler with good striking. Then again I think about how Goulet painted the ring with his blood, than about what Koscheck did to Goulet. Hmmm.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Sherks size has little to do with his combinations and technique standing. The effectiveness of his striking, yes, but not enough to say Koscheck is a better striker. Koscheck wanted none of Jeff Joslin standing and against Diego I thought he looked like shit and the only reason why anyone says otherwise is because the whole time Rogan and Goldberg were jerkin eachother off over it. Trigg has shown better striking in his fights against Charuto and Hallman than Kos has shown, also.

 

Do you honestly think that Koscheck is stronger than Hughes? GSP shrugged off Hughes like it was nothin. Kos may have quickness, but he rarely ever uses it. All Kos's vaunted athleticism allows him to do is take guys down. He's only explosive in his takedowns. Other than that, he plays it rather safe. Saying his striking is better because he sets up his takedowns better with his strikes goes again to putting over his takedown ability than his actual striking ability. In essence, all you are really saying, and all this comes down to, is that he has really awesome takedowns. Which I won't argue against. But his game aside from that is still pretty weak.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

I think that's unfair to say that he's only got really awesome takedowns. His striking is really good, he moved very well in and out against Diego, thanks to his athleticism. Striking leading to takedowns is important, but his striking is good enough on its own as well. Also, his ground game is getting better all the time. Ansar Chalangov is not an easy guy to submit. He's also the same level as GSP belt-wise, at this point anyway. I heard he was a purple who would have his brown belt by the end of the year. GSP got his brown belt after the fight with BJ so not a huge disparity there. In fact, the fact that he wasn't submitted by Joslin is impressive considering how good his ground game is.

 

He didn't want any of Joslin standing but so what? Joslin is a really good striker, he outstruck Jon Fitch and pretty much outwrestled Fitch as well. Joslin is no joke, so I think that's unfair. He knew he was losing and was smart and took the fight to where he knew he would have the advantage. It wasn't a great performance. Matt Serra has been outstruck by everyone under the sun, will you hold GSP's TKO loss against him because he had a really bad outing? Josh Koscheck learned from that fight and bounced back very well, *winning the fight on the feet*.

 

In fact I think it's absurd that you say he's pretty weak outside of the wrestling. His BJJ is actually really good, as he's adapted it well to MMA. He tries to pass the guard and submit people. What do you expect, anything less than a black belt is "pretty weak"? Anyone who is one-dimensional in this day and age will not get as far as he has and done what he has. Admit you're wrong here, because quite frankly I don't know how you can say as much with a straight face.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Oh bullshit. Koschecks standing isn't good at all. He basically has backing up, and circling away; pawing with his left and throwing a cross; and a high kick he throws a mile away. He stays completely out of the pocket and was essentially going against an easy target in Sanchez and did ridiculously little despite the fact that Diego was doing remarkably less. He may throw a jab, but that's only on a back step to keep someone away. Let's count the varied type of punches he throws with any sense of hitting his target... Uh. One? Compare this with Frank Trigg and Sean Sherk who you said Koscheck was another level above in striking. Koscheck probably "threw" 30 punches against Diego in the first round and maybe 4 had any realistic shot of landing, the rest were complete airballs. Which either suggests Koscheck has shitty depth perception, shitty striking, or feels more comfortable with a gap of 10 feet in between him and his opponent for the entire fight. It's very hard to say that his striking is "good".

 

As for how he fairs on the ground. His wrestling makes up a large part of that, because a guy with a strong base is going to be hard to move around on the ground, which makes things like sweeps and submissions very difficult. But then again, if you look at his record, the guys who he has faced with strong ground skills he didn't necessarily show all that strong ground skills against. The only reason Joslin didn't tap him out with a triangle was because the clock saved him; Fickett tapped him; and for the brief period they were on the ground, Diego swept him. So even then, it's a debatable point. But hey, he subbed Pete Spratt...

[starvenger 0]

...who was also subbed by a guy who can't see clearly past his fist...

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Okay, now I know you're talking out your ass. He was tapped by Fickett because he was rocked by a brutal knee. That's not a knock against his submission acumen, it's a knock against his ability to set up the shot, which he's already learned from. He was passing his guard and getting mount. Fickett is an Abu Dhabi veteran by the way, so that's pretty fucking impressive. If you come out of that fight thinking Fickett is the better ground fighter you're watching it with extreme bias. He was already knocked out. Joslin didn't tap him, and the triangle wasn't tight as there was lots of space there. Diego Sanchez has world class BJJ. Legit. That's like saying Diego is a shitty wrestler because Koscheck took him down. Stupid. GSP was knocked out by Serra, and outstruck by BJ Penn. Hardly the best strikers in the world. Diego and Joslin are world class BJJ guys though. So if you're knocking his submission ability because he didn't look so hot against two world class jiu jitsu players (both matches he won by the way) how much are you gonna shit on GSP's striking when he gets outstruck by two world class...jiu jitsu players?

 

You still didn't answer the question by the way. Is Jon Fitch a zero-dimensional fighter? Since he was outstruck and outwrestled by Joslin, and seeing as how he's not as good as Joslin at BJJ he must be incompetent in that area. It sounds like you assume one standard for everyone else, and a much higher one for Koscheck because you don't like him. Just admit that your biased against him.

 

As deep as the WW division is, you think a one-dimensional wrestler would be able to dominate it? If that's the case than Mark Coleman should walk into the UFC and capture the heavyweight championship, seeing as how that's the most shallow division in MMA.

 

Listen, can he work on everything? Yes, who can't? But his striking is far beyond what it was when he started, he's good at the standup. Will he outstrike GSP? Nope, but there's a good chance he can use it to OMG ONE DIMENSIONAL set up a takedown, and GnP his way to victory. If he was a white belt with no striking, you think we'd be talking about how much of a chance he has? By that logic fuck MMA, the best fighters in the world are olympic level wrestlers.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Taking about passing guard and mounting reflects BJJ training, yes, because there are many BJJ-specific guard-passes one can be taught. But the majority of that success would come from his wrestling base, literally. It's hard to move someone when they are trying to pass guard if they have a strong base, and wrestlers are trained to keep guys on their back, so I would say that more reflects being a good wrestler than anything else. Mark Coleman, who you single out, did what you talk about without a lick of training BJJ yet that part of his game is still considered, rightfully so, weak. Or would you call his BJJ "really good" as well? Do you seriously think that's all Jiu Jitsu he's using?

 

Not addressing Fitch has to do with not going out on tangents, especially with strawmen. Fitch has proven in different fights to be more dimensional than Josh Koscheck The Joslin/Koscheck fight stands out largely because people forget how shitty Koscheck was in it - which seems to be a running theme where people just remember the outcome of a largely uninspired performance and continue on with the dicksucking and admiring Joshes "athleticms". Joslin is a very good fighter, no doubt, but he still got banged up against Fitch standing, so it's not like Fitch did a Koscheck and run away from the striking. Koschecks performance against Joslin was so lame, at the time I thought you could make a case for Joslin winning, because all Koscheck had were takedowns, while at least Joslin had the fight standing and attempted to finish.

 

Also, GSP has nice technical striking, but the dude isn't a brawler. What BJ and Serra did was brawl with him. It's a weak part of his game, but he has proven himself in the striking dept. before, so he can earn the distinction in being a good striker. When Koscheck is on his back and he's subbin guys, or doing anything that doesn't come from him being a strong wrestler, but rather, using pure BJJ, he can earn the distinction of having good BJJ.

 

How is he good at the stand up? His striking with Diego was shit. Shit. Made worse by the fact that Diego was a sitting duck and Koschecks "much improved" striking consisted of some crosses, most of which missed by a mile. If you want to talk about not addressing points, how about you not responding to me breaking down his stand up against Diego? How do you define "good striking" (actually, I think your words were "really good")? Low percentage punches with little variation?

 

Koscheck is getting hype that he hasn't lived up to. That's my bias against him. If he actually showed being anything more than being a really wrestler, while everyone else is creaming over how well rounded he is, then I wouldn't have a problem. As it is, everything you've said about how really good he is at varied parts of the game STILL revolve around him being a really good wrestler. Yawn.