MLB Off-season Thread

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Jimmy Rollins is YOUR 2007 National League MVP. Damn Phillies.

 

Good! It's well-deserved.

 

 

There were only 102 players in MLB this year with a higher OBP (but I guess only 41 in the NL). Well-deserved, indeed!

[tominator89 0]

Thankfully, the award is not based on ONE statistical category.

[TheDevilAndGodAreRagingInsideMe 0]

How'd the balloting shake down?

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Thankfully, the award is not based on ONE statistical category.

 

Here are his NL ranks:

 

8th in Win Shares

5th in Runs Created

9th in VORP

 

Didn't make the top 10 in OBP, Slugging, OPS, OPS+, HR, or Win Probability Added.

 

He was first in outs though!

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

How'd the balloting shake down?

 

Jimmy Rollins Philadelphia Phillies 16 7 4 4 1 — — — — — 353

Matt Holliday Colorado Rockies 11 18 1 1 — 1 — — — — 336

Prince Fielder Milwaukee Brewers 5 6 17 3 — — — 1 — — 284

David Wright New York Mets — 1 4 12 7 1 1 2 — — 182

Ryan Howard Philadelphia Phillies — — 2 6 3 3 3 2 — 3 112

Chipper Jones Atlanta Braves — — 1 3 3 7 5 1 1 — 107

Jake Peavy San Diego Padres — — — 2 5 5 4 1 4 1 97

Chase Utley Philadelphia Phillies — — 1 — 5 2 6 4 1 3 89

Albert Pujols St. Louis Cardinals — — — — 1 2 2 3 6 5 50

Hanley Ramirez Florida Marlins — — — — 3 2 — 4 4 1 49

Eric Byrnes Arizona Diamondbacks — — — — — 1 3 4 7 — 43

Alfonso Soriano Chicago Cubs — — 1 — 1 2 2 1 1 2 39

Aramis Ramirez Chicago Cubs — — — — 2 2 1 2 2 — 36

Jose Valverde Arizona Diamondbacks — — — — 1 2 — — 1 1 19

Miguel Cabrera Florida Marlins — — — 1 — — 2 — — 3 18

Jose Reyes New York Mets — — — — — 1 2 — 1 1 16

Brandon Webb Arizona Diamondbacks — — — — — — 1 1 2 4 15

Troy Tulowitzki Colorado Rockies — — 1 — — — — 1 — 2 13

Carlos Lee Houston Astros — — — — — — — 1 1 2 7

Adrian Gonzalez San Diego Padres — — — — — 1 — — — 1 6

Carlos Beltran New York Mets — — — — — — — 2 — — 6

Brandon Phillips Cincinnati Reds — — — — — — — 1 — — 3

Aaron Rowand Philadelphia Phillies — — — — — — — 1 — — 3

Brad Hawpe Colorado Rockies — — — — — — — — 1 — 2

Ryan Braun Milwaukee Brewers — — — — — — — — — 2 2

Carlos Marmol Chicago Cubs — — — — — — — — — 1 1

[Brett Favre 0]

He was pretty valuable though. He was like most times on base or something or close to it. For a SS, he had a tremendous year. It's not a horrible choice.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

He was pretty valuable though. He was like most times on base or something or close to it. For a SS, he had a tremendous year. It's not a horrible choice.

 

 

I have nothing against Jimmy Rollins. He's a good player and he had a great season. But we're not discussing good players, we are discussing MVP here, and he just wasn't the best player in the league. He wasn't the best on his team. In fact, he wasn't even the best SS in his division. He had a bunch of hits and runs scored, but that's because he was the leadoff hitter for the best offense in baseball.

 

I have a hard time accepting an argument for him over David Wright or Matt Holliday.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

I have no problem with the award. Rollins played a key defensive position and won the gold glove. He played every game and all but 17 defensive innings. You can show all the offensive ranks you want. But most of the guys ahead of him were playing lesser defensive positions. Look at runs created. He's 5th, 16 behind leader Matt Holliday. But if you take SS vs. LF, Philadelphia vs. Coors Field, you make up the difference in a hurry.

 

As for Win Shares, Rollins is actually tied for 6th if you use round numbers, seventh if you take it to a decimal point. Two win shares is easily within a margin of error, that gives you two guys only who are clearly, statistically more valuable. Then you haven't yet factored in intangibles. Rollins is hardly a bad choice at all.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

I have no problem with the award. Rollins played a key defensive position and won the gold glove. He played every game and all but 17 defensive innings. You can show all the offensive ranks you want. But most of the guys ahead of him were playing lesser defensive positions. Look at runs created. He's 5th, 16 behind leader Matt Holliday. But if you take SS vs. LF, Philadelphia vs. Coors Field, you make up the difference in a hurry.

 

As for Win Shares, Rollins is actually tied for 6th if you use round numbers, seventh if you take it to a decimal point. Two win shares is easily within a margin of error, that gives you two guys only who are clearly, statistically more valuable. Then you haven't yet factored in intangibles. Rollins is hardly a bad choice at all.

 

Homer.

 

Might I point out that you put him 4th on your own ballot in our awards thread and said that you couldn't make an argument for him just because he was your guy.

[naiwf 0]

Jimmy Rollins is YOUR 2007 National League MVP. Damn Phillies.

 

Ridiculous. But I knew it was coming, so whatever.

 

Pretty much sums up my feelings. Two years in a row a player on the Phillies has won an MVP they didn't deserve. Maybe Utley can get his turn next year.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

I have no problem with the award. Rollins played a key defensive position and won the gold glove. He played every game and all but 17 defensive innings. You can show all the offensive ranks you want. But most of the guys ahead of him were playing lesser defensive positions. Look at runs created. He's 5th, 16 behind leader Matt Holliday. But if you take SS vs. LF, Philadelphia vs. Coors Field, you make up the difference in a hurry.

 

As for Win Shares, Rollins is actually tied for 6th if you use round numbers, seventh if you take it to a decimal point. Two win shares is easily within a margin of error, that gives you two guys only who are clearly, statistically more valuable. Then you haven't yet factored in intangibles. Rollins is hardly a bad choice at all.

 

Homer.

Maybe. But you give me a reason why I should discount the 403 more plays that Rollins made in the field over Matt Holliday. David Wright, that's a matter of his team not making the playoffs and I can't defend that decision. Pitching failed the Mets.

 

By any purely objective measure, Rollins is in the top 5. That makes him a viable candidate and if he wins from there, it's hardly a bad choice.

[Brett Favre 0]

He has leadership qualities too. Seriously. His team keeps saying that he makes the team go, and all that stuff. Jimmy Rollins wouldn't be my first choice, but it's not like he had a .750 OPS. It was over .870, with like 40 steals, while playing gold glove defense at SS.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

He has leadership qualities too. Seriously. His team keeps saying that he makes the team go, and all that stuff. Jimmy Rollins wouldn't be my first choice, but it's not like he had a .750 OPS. It was over .870, with like 40 steals, while playing gold glove defense at SS.

 

Maybe next year David Wright will stop worrying about putting up his 1.000 plus OPS from August through September and concentrate on making his pitchers not suck. Perhaps then he can get the award he deserves.

[Brett Favre 0]

Perhaps.

[devo 0]

Indians sign Japanese reliever Masahide Kobayashi to a two year deal with an option for a third. Value of the deal appears to be unannounced for now. Kobayashi is the team's first Japanese professional ballplayer ever.

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20...rtnered=rss_cle

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

The “Most Valuable Player” award continued its evolution into the “Most Valuable Copy Creator” award today as Jimmy Rollins was named the NL MVP by the Baseball Writers Association of America. While Rollins had an excellent season, playing in every Phillies game and accumulating large numbers of at-bats, hits, runs, extra-base hits and stolen bases, he also accumulated a large number of outs. Those outs, which left him with just a .344 on-base percentage, are the difference between being the “most” valuable player in the league and being just one of many valuable ones.

 

Of course, what mattered wasn’t Rollins’ statistics, but that his teammates played well enough to help win 89 games, while David Wright’s teammates played only well enough for his team to win 88. What mattered was that Rollins, in January, called his Phillies “the team to beat” in the NL East, then went out had a career year. What mattered was that the Phillies made up a seven-game deficit with 17 games to play, and never mind that relief pitching and Chase Utley and the Mets’ bullpen woes had as much to do with that as Rollins did.

 

This vote reflects the storyline, not the performance. All of the measures of performance that we have, from Value Over Replacement Player to Wins Above Replacement Player to…well, pick your favorite stat…yield roughly the same conclusion: that Jimmy Rollins was somewhere between the fifth- and eighth-best player in the NL this year, with overall value comparable to his double-play partner, Utley, who would himself have run away with this award if not for taking a John Lannan fastball off of his hand July 26. Even missing 28 games with the injury, Utley was as productive as Rollins was in a full season, a testament to the power of 66 points of on-base percentage.

 

Rollins wasn’t even the best of the “storyline” candidates, the players who rose to the top of the discussion as the season drew to a close. Matt Holliday, who was the fourth-best player in the league by both VORP and WARP, was considered the co-favorite along with Rollins at the end of the regular season, a regular season that ended with Holliday face down in the dirt behind home plate at Coors Field, having just scored the run that clinched the wild card for the Rockies. Holliday, like a number of others, had better offensive (75.0 VORP to Rollins’ 66.1, .318 EqA to Rollins’ .290, 63.3 Runs Above Replacement to Rollins’ 55.0) and defensive (10 Fielding Runs Above Average versus eight for Rollins, +9 in John Dewan’s Plus/Minus system to Rollins’ +7) statistics than Rollins did. All of those numbers account for position and park—Rollins’ being a shortstop and not playing home games in Coors Field are in those formulae.

 

As expected, the electorate completely missed the most valuable players in the league, because those players didn’t have good enough teammates. Albert Pujols combined his typically great offense with a Gold Glove-caliber defensive season to produce the highest WARP total in the NL (11.3). David Wright, who did everything but pitch for the Mets in September, was second in the league in WARP (10.7) thanks to being its second-best offensive player and playing above-average defense at third base. Jake Peavy was not just the best pitcher in the league, but he was arguably its best player, also posting a 10.7 WARP.

 

The three best players in the league finished fourth (Wright), seventh (Peavy) and ninth (Pujols) in the MVP balloting, not because their performance was lacking, but because their teammates were.

 

In a close race, there’s nothing wrong with considering factors such as September performance, clutch performance (preferably with a statistical tool such as Win Probability Added, rather than anecdotes) and whether a team’s game were played in a pennant race. This wasn’t a close race, though; the gap between Pujols, Wright and Peavy and the rest of the league was more than one win, which is an enormous number in an MVP race. That they did so poorly in the voting doesn’t mean the statistics missed something; it means the voters couldn’t resist the temptation, yet again, to reward the players who produced the best stories, rather than the best seasons.

 

Jimmy Rollins is a great baseball player who had the best year of his career and was part of a division winner after making an offseason boast that he would be just that. Those things make him valuable, exciting and one of the best stories of 2007.

He just wasn’t the most valuable player in the National League.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Indians sign Japanese reliever Masahide Kobayashi to a two year deal with an option for a third. Value of the deal appears to be unannounced for now. Kobayashi is the team's first Japanese professional ballplayer ever.

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20...rtnered=rss_cle

Second. Kaz Tadano was an Indian.

[tominator89 0]

Well, it's official: Mets fans whine more than Democrats.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

As for Baseball Prospectus, WARP and VORP do not measure defense. If you can't measure it adequately, you can't just sweep it under the rug. It's part of the discussion.

[devo 0]

No fooling? Guess Mark Shapiro isn't as familiar with his team's history as he should be.

 

Well, it's official: Mets fans whine more than Democrats.

 

Hilarious.

[Brett Favre 0]

Well, it's official: Mets fans whine more than Democrats.

 

Who's a whining Met fan?

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

No fooling? Guess Mark Shapiro isn't as familiar with his team's history as he should be.

 

Well, it's official: Mets fans whine more than Democrats.

 

Hilarious.

Actually third if you count Dave Roberts, who is half-Japanese and was born in Okinawa.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

As for Baseball Prospectus, WARP and VORP do not measure defense. If you can't measure it adequately, you can't just sweep it under the rug. It's part of the discussion.

 

WARP does account for defense, although it's based on historical models instead of PBP data. It's even noted in Sheehan's post that John Dewan had Holliday, Pujols and Wright as plus defenders at their positions as well. You can't just give Rollins exta credit for defense when the other candidates were all premium defensive players.

 

And while VORP doesn't specifically measure defense, it does measure your offensive contribution relative to your peers at your defensive position. So playing a premium position only gets you so far.

 

As I've said here and will continue to say, Rollins had a very good year. It was the best of his career and it helped his team win a division. He just wasn't the best and there is little argument for voting him over Wright or Holliday or several other candidates.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

WARP does account for defense, although it's based on historical models instead of PBP data. It's even noted in Sheehan's post that John Dewan had Holliday, Pujols and Wright as plus defenders at their positions as well. You can't just give Rollins exta credit for defense when the other candidates were all premium defensive players.

 

Sure you can. Plus defense at SS is worth many times more than plus defense in left. Hell, average defense at short is worth more than plus defense in left field.

 

As I've said here and will continue to say, Rollins had a very good year. It was the best of his career and it helped his team win a division. He just wasn't the best and there is little argument for voting him over Wright or Holliday or several other candidates.

 

Rollins said his team was the one to beat. Then he put up a 1.057 OPS against the Mets, while his team won eight straight against them. He stepped up his game, hit 30 home runs, 20 triples, won the gold glove and played every game. That's what this award is about. He boasted and backed it up.

[Brett Favre 0]

cheech be hating man.

[Guest Pizza Hut's Game Face]

I'm guessing that Fire Joe Morgan is gnashing its e-teeth and pounding the e-table over this? Cheech seems to be pretty rank and file with them.

[Slayer 0]

The thing that amazed me was David Wright actually getting fewer votes than Big Daddy Jr

[MFer 0]

Who votes for these awards anyways? I don't have a major issue with Rollins winning the MVP, but I suspect that a lot of voters aren't looking at VORP and WARP and whatever other sabermetric acronyms you can find (just gueesing here).

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Who votes for these awards anyways? I don't have major issue with Rollins winning the MVP, but I suspect that a lot of voters aren't looking at VORP and WARP and whatever other sabermetric acronyms you can find.

Two beat writers from each league city.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

I'm guessing that Fire Joe Morgan is gnashing its e-teeth and pounding the e-table over this? Cheech seems to be pretty rank and file with them.

 

Sorry that I do nerdy stuff like look at stats to determine the best player in the league. They're only a measure of a player's actual contributions on the field.

 

Next year I'm forgetting about VORP, OPS and win shares. It's all about heart, hustle, grittiness and being fucking calm-eyed.