MLB Off-season Thread

[Vern Gagne 0]

Why the vitriol regarding the Twins? Letting a 31 year old center fielder go is not a terrible move. They have two stars yet in Mauer and Morneau, and real depth in their pitching ranks. I can't see this Garza for Young trade going down, since corner outfield is not the Twins' problem.

 

The Phillies picked up Shane Youman off waivers. The Astros signed Tomas Perez to a minor league contract, a sure sign that Ed Wade is their GM.

 

I'll disagree somewhat about corner outfield not being a concern. I think Kubel's got a nice upside, but he might be better suited to play DH with his past knee injury.

[migoli 0]

I'm sorry but did i see someone say Torii Hunter has a "decent glove" ??!?!!

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

I'm sorry but did i see someone say Torii Hunter has a "decent glove" ??!?!!

 

He's still decent out there. Do you really think he's gotten that bad? He's not an elite defender in the outfield but he hasn't slipped to the point that he's costing you runs.

 

Torii didn't finish in the top ten of John Dewan's Plus/Minus system, but still placed 6th in Fielding Bible awards. I'd feel confident in saying he's in the top third of all centerfielders.

[Vern Gagne 0]

I'm guessing he meant Hunter was a good defensive CF.

[Precious Roy 0]

The trade is official. Garza/Bartlett/Eduardo Morlan for Young/Brendan Harris/Jason Pridie

 

I like the deal for the Twins. Young is an outstanding talent and should benefit from the change of scenery. The Twins have a culture of being competitive and a loyal fanbase, it's a good place for a young player to be, better than Tampa anyway. I wouldn't be suprised to see him outproduce Torii Hunter in the next couple of years. Harris seems like an upgrade over Bartlett at SS.

 

Not a bad deal for Tampa either. They have a glut of young OFs and got a potentially very good young pitcher back in the deal.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

For the Rays: I think Bartlett is an upgrade over Harris, honestly. Harris gives you some more power. Bartlett provides speed and defense. With lefty Kazmir on the mound, Bartlett could be a boon for the Rays. Matt Garza is an elite young pitcher. His numbers last year over two levels include 175 IP, 162 strikeouts, 63 walks, 13 home runs allowed, and a 3.65 ERA. As a 23 year old. He immediately becomes the Rays' number two starter. Eduardo Morlan looks like a future closer in the making. Giving away an elite talent like Delmon Young is an interesting move. I think the Rays have enough elite young talent that they can make the move.

 

For the Twins: Delmon Young is an elite talent. It'll be interesting to see how the Twins align their outfield. The sensible plan would seem to be Cuddyer-Pridie-Young. A possibility though is that the Twins attempt to move Michael Cuddyer back to third base to shore up their infield. Alexi Casilla becomes their best option at shortstop, Brendan Harris sliding over to second base. Rotation at this point looks like Santana-Bonser-Baker-Slowey, with Glen Perkins, Brian Duensing and even Francisco Liriano figuring into the final slot.

 

I LOVE this offseason!

[Guest Pizza Hut's Game Face]

I don't like the trade. Well, not for the Twins, at least. I don't trust Delmon Young to pan out at all, while Matt Garza will be very good indeed. "Change of scenery" doesn't mean shit. Moving Delmon out of the fast-paced sex-drugs-rock-n-roll lifestyle of...St. Petersburg, Florida still won't do him any good. He'll show flashes of brilliance, then he'll get in trouble with the law and never amount to anything. Garza will be a pretty big addition to the Rays, maybe enough to leapfrog Baltimore next year as Kazmir and Shields gain another year of experience. So far the Twins have lost Torii Hunter, Matt Garza, and possibly Johan Santana soon. Do they even intend to finish ahead of the White Sox?

 

Hang on to this post in 10 months, when Delmon Young leads the Twins to the 2008 AL Central Division Championship.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

I don't like the trade. Well, not for the Twins, at least. I don't trust Delmon Young to pan out at all, while Matt Garza will be very good indeed. "Change of scenery" doesn't mean shit. Moving Delmon out of the fast-paced sex-drugs-rock-n-roll lifestyle of...St. Petersburg, Florida still won't do him any good. He'll show flashes of brilliance, then he'll get in trouble with the law and never amount to anything. Garza will be a pretty big addition to the Rays, maybe enough to leapfrog Baltimore next year as Kazmir and Shields gain another year of experience. So far the Twins have lost Torii Hunter, Matt Garza, and possibly Johan Santana soon. Do they even intend to finish ahead of the White Sox?

 

Hang on to this post in 10 months, when Delmon Young leads the Twins to the 2008 AL Central Division Championship.

Again, to my knowledge Young has never been in legal trouble. His brother Dmitri got in trouble for domestic assault. Teammate Elijah Dukes is a basket case. But the bat throwing incident is the only black mark on Delmon's record as of yet. I can question his plate discipline, but I don't see any special reason to question his makeup.

[NYU 0]

I hope all this talk in the New York newspapers about Jose Reyes being trade bait for Johan Santana is just talk. It would be a critical mistake for the Mets to consider that -- along the lines of trading Tom Seaver. Reyes was the catalyst for that team in the first half of the 2007 season. He has limitless potential....and it's not like they even have anybody to replace him anyway. I can't see Minaya doing it because even he has to realize the possible disaster it could turn into, but I'm uneasy about all the talk either way.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

I hope all this talk in the New York newspapers about Jose Reyes being trade bait for Johan Santana is just talk. It would be a critical mistake for the Mets to consider that -- along the lines of trading Tom Seaver. Reyes was the catalyst for that team in the first half of the 2007 season. He has limitless potential....and it's not like they even have anybody to replace him anyway. I can't see Minaya doing it because even he has to realize the possible disaster it could turn into, but I'm uneasy about all the talk either way.

It's just talk. Who the hell would play shortstop?

 

90% of these trade rumors are made up, yet we go through this every year.

[Mik 0]

Delmon was considered a sure thing like A-Rod and Griffey. Despite all the talk you hear about prospects and everyone expects everyone to be God... off the top of my head I can only name 4 guys who have been universally praised as best-player-in-the-league-type-guys before they even made the bigs... Ken Griffey Jr., A-Rod, Delmon Young, and Justin Upton.

 

Keep in mind also that Delmon was the youngest player to play all 162 last year and he did quite fine. There were a lot of questions about Garza before he started putting up great numbers in the minors, although that might not mean anything because sometimes pitchers just figure things out.

 

I still have to like the Twins in this one.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

I don't know quite what to make of this, but here is all 187 batters who played full seasons at the age of 21.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

For the Twins: Delmon Young is an elite talent. It'll be interesting to see how the Twins align their outfield. The sensible plan would seem to be Cuddyer-Pridie-Young. A possibility though is that the Twins attempt to move Michael Cuddyer back to third base to shore up their infield. Alexi Casilla becomes their best option at shortstop, Brendan Harris sliding over to second base. Rotation at this point looks like Santana-Bonser-Baker-Slowey, with Glen Perkins, Brian Duensing and even Francisco Liriano figuring into the final slot.

 

Not just saying this because I'm a Red Sox guy, but if they made the deal with Boston that is reportedly on the table (Lester/Ellsbury/Lowrie/Masterson), they'd solve all of their remaining roster problems in one swoop. Jacoby slides in at center, allowing them to put Cuddyer back at third. Lowrie takes over at short and Harris keeps second warm while they figure out what to do with Casilla. Lester takes up the final spot in the rotation.

[Guest Smues]

I don't know quite what to make of this, but here is all 187 batters who played full seasons at the age of 21.

Umm, where?

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Shit. Sorry.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/shareit/gbRw

[Boon 0]

A little birdie says the Boston Red Sox have become the favorite in the Johan Santana trade sweepstakes.

 

The Twins would receive four players for the Twins' two-time Cy Young Award winner, including center fielder Coco Crisp, 28.

 

Others would be shortstop prospect Jed Lowry, 23; left-handed pitcher Jon Lester, 23; and right-handed pitcher Justin Masterson, 22.

 

Before a deal could be made, the Red Sox would have to have time to negotiate a contract extension with Santana, 28, who can become a free agent after next season and could have a market value as high as $150 million over six years.

http://www.twincities.com/walters

 

Can we lay to rest the myth that the Red Sox land top stars with shit while the Yankees land nothing with gold?

Crisp, Lester, Lowrie and Masterson is a lot.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

The Yankees could probably match that with Hughes/Melky/Tabata/Horne. Will they?

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

For reference, here are Kevin Goldstein's rankings of the prospects in the Yankees and Red Sox system. This can give us some perspective when we are discussing the caliber of talent necessary to keep the deals equal.

 

You will not find Jon Lester of Phil Hughes listed on either list, as they have both lost rookie eligibility. However, both were ranked as five star caliber prospects in his talent under 25 column.

 

Five-Star Prospects

1. Clay Buchholz, RHP

2. Jacoby Ellsbury, CF

Four-Star Prospects

3. Justin Masterson, RHP

4. Jed Lowrie, SS

5. Ryan Kalish, OF

Three-Star Prospects

6. Michael Bowden, RHP

7. Lars Anderson, 1B

8. Nick Hagadone, LHP

9. Oscar Tejeda, SS

Two-Star Prospects

10. Josh Reddick, OF

11. Che-Hsuan Lin, OF

 

Five-Star Prospects

1. Joba Chamberlain, RHP

Four-Star Prospects

2. Ian Kennedy, RHP

3. Austin Jackson, OF

4. Jose Tabata, OF

5. Alan Horne, RHP

Three-Star Prospects

6. Dellin Betances, RHP

7. Jesus Montero, C

8. Andrew Brackman, RHP

9. Edwar Ramirez, RHP

10. Kelvin DeLeon, OF

Two-Star Prospects

11. Humberto Sanchez, RHP

[Boon 0]

If I'm the Yankees, I'd think long and hard before I include the only good young OF I have that's proven himself in the big-leagues. Cabrera's shown he can play on a consistently good level in the Bronx. Short of going out and signing someone else, that outfield looks like Damon/Matsui/Abreu/Duncan - old and injury prone. Unless they're planning on making Sardinha a full-timer?

 

The Red Sox are at an advantage b/c Crisp is expendable behind Ellsbury and they've inked their starting pitching core (Beckett/Matsuzaka) for long term deals at reasonable money while keeping young guys in Lester, Buchholz and Masterson. Lowrie is blocked behind Lowell and Lugo for at least three years.

 

Long story short- I think the Sox can afford to lose Crisp/Lester/Lowrie/Masterson more than the Yanks can afford to lose Hughes/Cano/Tabata/Horne. That being said, we could have this discussion again tomorrow once the packages change.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

But you're forgetting that Melky Cabrera isn't any good. He can't hit, he can't field and he can't run the bases. He is only 23, so he has some upside but he isn't exactly a toolsy guy waiting to break out. He's been projected as 4th outfielder his entire career. I don't want the Yankees to trade Melky because it's a position that they could easily upgrade through free agency or in a trade.

 

That being said, I still don't think Lester/Crisp/Lowrie/Masterson or a comparable Yankees package will be enough to get Santana. These teams are going to cough up some elite talent before this is over or Minnesota will just keep him.

[Bruiser Chong 0]

I wish another team was able to put together a package for Santana. I get bored with all of talks like these almost always exclusively concerning Boston and the Yankees.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

I think the Dodgers, Mets and Angels are all in the negotiations as well. However, the Yanks and Red Sox are probably the only ones that have the minor league talent and the financial resources to put this thing together under the current conditions. It's a sad reflection of the state of the game, but that's the economic world they operate in.

 

The Twins have one of the richest owners in sports, have a new stadium opening soon and just banked a reported $45 million from revenue sharing proceeds. They could sign Johan if they really made it a priority.

[Brett Favre 0]

Ellsbury ain't much better than Cabera. Please. They both hit about the same, Ellsbury has better range, Cabrera has the better arm.

 

Secondly, there's no way the Twins take that crap Red Sox offer. It's just posturing. Eventually you'll see something like Kennedy, Cabrera, Horne, Jackson, and Gonzalez from the Yankees.

 

If the Twins take that for Santana, good for the Sox, but there's no reason why the Yankees should offer Hughes when the Red Sox ain't even giving up Buccholz. And you can list the prospects from both teams all you want, but even Allan Horne is about as good a prospect as Lester. Just cause one is number 4 in the Red Sox system, doesn't mean he'd be number 4 in the Yankee system.

[migoli 0]

Yeah sorry i did mean to say Torii is still THE best CF in the game, if you dont agree i really want to hear who you think is better.

 

And Boon you really think Lester/Coco/Lowrie Masterson is alot for the best pitcher in the game?

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Yeah sorry i did mean to say Torii is still THE best CF in the game, if you dont agree i really want to hear who you think is better.

 

Carlos Beltran, Andruw Jones, Coco Crisp and Curtis Granderson are without a doubt the four best defensive centerfielders in baseball. There is no agrument there.

 

After that, there's a definite falloff to the next group of guys. Ichiro, Hunter, Juan Pierre, Aaron Rowand and Vernon Wells alll have their strengths and weaknesses. I'm sure I'm missing a few guys, but that would at least make up the upper tier of defensive centerfielders.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Secondly, there's no way the Twins take that crap Red Sox offer. It's just posturing. Eventually you'll see something like Kennedy, Cabrera, Horne, Jackson, and Gonzalez from the Yankees.

 

That's quite the juxtaposition there.

 

Lester > Kennedy

Crisp > Cabrera

Masterson = Horne

Lowrie >/= Jackson

 

It's one thing to consider the Red Sox offer to be crap. I'm fine with that opinion. But don't present a Yankees offer that is worse as justification.

 

If the Twins take that for Santana, good for the Sox, but there's no reason why the Yankees should offer Hughes when the Red Sox ain't even giving up Buccholz. And you can list the prospects from both teams all you want, but even Allan Horne is about as good a prospect as Lester. Just cause one is number 4 in the Red Sox system, doesn't mean he'd be number 4 in the Yankee system.

 

Before the abrupt 2006 call-up and subsequent cancer diagnosis, Lester was rated higher than Phil Hughes as a prospect and was compared favorably to Papelbon in some scouting circles. Now, he was definitely passed by both guys in terms of performance and upside during that lost year and a half, but don't write off Lester as some back end guy.

 

We haven't seen him at full strength yet. If he polishes the command and regains his strength, he's a #2 starter. Even if he doesn't he's a #3 or 4 lefty with breakout potential.

 

Lester is rated as a five star commodity. Kennedy and Horne are four stars. No disrespect to those guys, but he's a much better prospect.

[Brett Favre 0]

Lester was a horrible 5 star commodity then cause his minor league numbers never touched Kennedy nor Hughes' numbers. He's never had great command to begin with so I don't know where it's going to come from.

 

Cabrera is still years away from arbitration and still has some upside left so I'd put > Crisp who batted about the same, if not worse than Cabrera last year.

[Cowboy Battlenuts 0]

Holy shit, if Cabrera isn't any good, what exactly is good? .320 with 30 and 120? Cause I can think of some good baseball players with a lot worse numbers than that.

[Brett Favre 0]

We're talking about Melky Cabrera.

[Cowboy Battlenuts 0]

I know, he's not a sure fire future HOF'er, but I think "isn't any good" is a GROSS underestimation.