WWE 24/7 Discussion Thread - December 2007

[King Kamala 0]

God- Starcade '98. That was 10-15 minutes before they went to the first match. The first two matches were the only redeeming qualities of that show. Awful, awful show, even by WCW standards.

[Guest heyguesswhatidid]

I still haven't gotten my update yet. I never got the Malenko gift either.

 

But of course they took away the expiring stuff, they always remember to do that.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

Benoit alert! (sorry Al). They mention that he's banned from the building (along with the rest of the Horsemen).

 

Too bad the rest of Starrcade can't be as good as the opener (which I just finished watching). It reminds me of watching December to Dismember last year without reading the results or feedback... I watched The Hardys vs MNM and thought "well if the REST of the show is as good as this match...". We know how that one turned out.

 

I marked for Heenan making an Al Bundy reference.

[cabbageboy 0]

Starrcade 1998 was a disturbing foreshadowing of the whole awful year of 1999 for WCW. After the opening 2 cruiser matches with Kidman, Rey, Eddie, etc. that show really starts sucking. With that said, I still defend Nash going over Goldberg in the main event. That wasn't in and of itself a bad decision....everything they did AFTER that was what sucked.

[Guest]

Sunflower put their schedule up.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

The Ladder Match DVD will be airing next month, but in 4 parts. Since most DVD parts are 90 minutes, one would assume they managed to cut away all the Benoit matches and make it "two discs".

 

The two MSG shows next month are part of the debut theme, which explains why I saw a clip of mid 80s Bret Hart when they were advertising debuts (which means it WILL be just Raw debuts, to bring on Batists vs Justin Credible!). The 1980 show features Evil Hogan vs. Tito Santana (also on the Hogan Anthology Wal-Mart disc, but screw that I've never seen it), Kerry Von Erich's MSG debut, and what I can only assume is some sort of legendary Zybysko vs Sammartino bout. The 1985 show has Bret's MSG debut, Neidhart's MSG debut, and a 20 minute Tito vs. Valentine match.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

Finlay and Jerry Flynn vs Bryan Adams and Scott Norton. CLEARLY a bout worthy of the top WCW show of the year, though maybe not as worthy as Saturn vs Ernest Miller. This show is really good at summing up why this company went out of business (besides the obvious).

 

Plus side: Finlay's production and therefore I assume not free "Rock Energy" theme song made the cut and wasn't edited.

 

I hate to admit it but Bischoff's asshole promo made me laugh. "In Ric Flair's 104 year career he hasn't saved a dime". Jericho's promo was also very good (and hooray for Fake Evenflow!) but I have no hope for this match with Konnan.

 

Fun Note: Check out the chick in the audience wearing the Wolfpac shirt during Konnan's entrance. I'm sure you'll recognize her.

[King Kamala 0]

Starrcade 1998 was a disturbing foreshadowing of the whole awful year of 1999 for WCW. After the opening 2 cruiser matches with Kidman, Rey, Eddie, etc. that show really starts sucking. With that said, I still defend Nash going over Goldberg in the main event. That wasn't in and of itself a bad decision....everything they did AFTER that was what sucked.

 

 

'98 is my second least favorite year of WCW behind '99 (Granted, I've seen very little of early 90s WCW). Weirdly enough at the time as a mark, I fucking loved it. I loved the nonsensical Wolfpac Vs Hollywood storyline and the fact that Nitro was three hours. But looking back at that stuff- yeck. It's all terrible outside of some cruiserweight stuff, Jericho's promos and Flair's comeback promo.

 

Call me crazy but I liked 2000 WCW better than '98 or '99. Sure, they were all incredibly shitty but 2000 was a more interesting and entertaining trainwreck IMHO. And I had just started enjoying WCW again in the first few months of '01 before WWF bought it.

[LooseCannon25 0]

I know they dub over some music, but what the hell is up with all the cheesy 80's rock music for all the wrestlers at Starrcade 98? Good lord, it's terrible. On top of that, during the entrances they have a piece of paper cut out with the wrestlers name being shaken in front of the tron. It looks so low budget...lol

 

You would think a big company like that would be able to pick up the production a bit

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

I think all of those themes except Goldberg's and the intro music (and possibly Bischoff's interview music) were legit themes of the time. On that note, I LOVE fake Michael Buffer.

 

Is it me or do the boo's that Eric Bischoff was getting during his entrance sound incredibly fake?

 

"Hey Shawn, you can make fun of me all you want but leave The Simpsons out of it" - Bret Hart on Raw. That got a laugh out of me.

[cabbageboy 0]

I loved on the Raw where the Harts attack some random jobber in the back thinking it is HBK, and then realize it isn't him....then simply kick the guy's ass anyway. I think the next show from May 12 will be the curious RVD debut of sorts where he squashes Jeff Hardy.

 

Allow me to clarify WCW circa 1998. It was actually pretty good stuff for the first 6-7 months of the year, with Jericho/Malenko, Eddie being a prick, Booker/Benoit having their series of matches, Goldberg's rise to the top and his eventual win over Hogan, etc. That was all some pretty solid action that made me ignore the nonsense with the Wolfpac vs. Black & White.

 

However, once it hit roughly August WCW started to suck some shit. You had the Warrior trash all over TV, Bischoff doing his awful Tonight Show skits, and all of the hot angles that had carried the year went by the wayside. By Fall Braw 1998 WCW was utter crap...I mean really bad. Flair's return promo was a bright spot, but given how he was humiliated after that I don't hold much nostalgia for it.

[Jericholic82 0]

I think all of those themes except Goldberg's and the intro music (and possibly Bischoff's interview music) were legit themes of the time. On that note, I LOVE fake Michael Buffer.

 

Is it me or do the boo's that Eric Bischoff was getting during his entrance sound incredibly fake?

 

"Hey Shawn, you can make fun of me all you want but leave The Simpsons out of it" - Bret Hart on Raw. That got a laugh out of me.

no, that was Bischoffs real theme from the time, for some reason they played the nwo music for the match (but that wasnt an edit I dont think) why cant they use goldbergs wcw theme though? (probably cuz they had to cut off buffers voice and they figured we can just use our version of the theme which is non-production) they also cut out buffer lets get ready to rumble bit of course, they skipped from the video package to nash coming out.

 

why was smiley vs prince nakamaki given so much damn time? i mean the fans were getting annoyed with it by 4 mins in, and they only shut up when Norman did the big wiggle.

 

at least saturn vs the cat was a real feud that was going on at the time, instead of just a random match

 

nwo vs finlay/flynn made little sense as you had two heel teams out there (although finlay and flynn would later be part of Jimmy Harts "First Family" stable.

 

the only other theme edit was maybe normans cuz it sounded kinda off, but I cant recall the exact song he wa using at the timem so it might be real.

 

hell they even had the cats real song in there.

 

the show basically sucked. Even the cruiser stuff wasnt as good as youd see back then. weird to think about it, this was just 4 days before Eddies near-fatal car accident.

[cabbageboy 0]

Not only is Starrcade 98 a crappy show, it's also one that is infuriating. Goldberg losing his first match the way he did, Jericho jobbing to Konnan (at least then I knew he was leaving WCW), and especially Bischoff beating Flair under ANY circumstances.

 

I still think WCW would be been okay had they simply put the belt back on Goldberg soon after. Even the Fingerpoke could have worked had they known what to do after it, namely have Goldberg steamroll through the NWO till he go to Hogan and then do the PPV match of it that they didn't do in 1998.

[strummer 0]

The momentum WCW had in the first half of 98 actually started in late 97. For whatever reason in about August/September they started caring about the midcard again after just throwing stuff out there for most of 97. I was pretty much entrenched in the WWF at the time but that period from WCW from Sept. 97 till August 98 was still able to hold my interest to a degree. 1999 ended that though.

 

BTW, WCW in 97 (till August) has to me the most overrated time period for the company. I can't believe those shows were praised at the time. Just incredibly stale

[King Kamala 0]

Thinking about it there was a lot more stuff in '98 that I liked then I remember (Crazy Eddie Guerrero, Malenko/Jericho feud, the mini Flair/Bret Hart feud, Booker/Benoit Best of 7, DDP/Raven's Flock/Benoit feud) but yeah any goodwill they built in the first six or seven months was lost in the last half of the year which I still maintain is less enjoyable than 2000 WCW.

 

 

And WCW in the first part of '97 is overrated. Looking back at it, the only stuff I remember liking in specific was the DDP/Savage feud. I'm sure the cruiserweights did some good stuff but the only thing I remember being really good was the surprisingly good push of DDP.

[Diamonddust 0]

The momentum WCW had in the first half of 98 actually started in late 97. For whatever reason in about August/September they started caring about the midcard again after just throwing stuff out there for most of 97. I was pretty much entrenched in the WWF at the time but that period from WCW from Sept. 97 till August 98 was still able to hold my interest to a degree. 1999 ended that though.

 

BTW, WCW in 97 (till August) has to me the most overrated time period for the company. I can't believe those shows were praised at the time. Just incredibly stale

 

I don't know if they were so much praised, but they were beating Raw senseless in the ratings. They rode the incredible momentum they had in the 2nd half of 1996 all the way into 1997. Raw was countering with an awesome storyline and characters, yet they couldn't make a dent in things. Basically the first half of 1997 didn't accomplish anything other than the DDP/Savage feud, which carried two PPV's. The end of 1997 picked up slightly as this guy named Goldberg came around, and they started the final push to Sting/Hogan before screwing up that one. We also got that great Eddie/Rey match from Halloween Havoc '97 as well.

 

The writing was on the wall for WCW in late 1997. The WWE was left for dead after Montreal, and WCW thought they were going to drive the final nail in the coffin. They botched the Hogan/Sting match, lost a boat load of viewers the night they tried to change things to NWO Nitro (Which happened right before Starrcade). The next month... the WWE started their Wrestlemania, AKA "The Formal March to the Austin Era" with the great Austin/Tyson scuffle. It was also the time "The Rock" really started to catch fire as a heel. A few months later, McMahon closed the gap, and WCW didn't know what to do other than hot stuff multi-million dollar matches for a one night victory.

[cabbageboy 0]

WCW in 1997 was unbelievably bland and uninspiring. I honestly can't recall any of this stuff up until maybe Aug. 1997 when Luger beat Hogan and they did the last Clash show.

 

WCW in 2000 is wildly insane and hilarious to watch, particularly everything from roughly April until October. In early 2000 WCW sucked really, really bad. And by late 2000 things were actually getting competent again and yet it was sorta sad since it was dying.

[Guest]

WCW in late 2000 went back to the formula they had before '99. Good lower midcard matches, good cruiserweight action, and decent main events. Ok, WCW didn't have many decent ME's before '99. That part's not true. There was just TOO MUCH going on during the shows for anyone to give a shit about the product. The matches were fine. Booking's another story, that I don't feel like getting into right now. The line was too blurred between heel and face. You can say the same thing about TNA right now. Connect the dots.

[Darth Pipes 0]

Really enjoyed seeing Raw again. Damn, that Hart Foundation vs Austin storyline rocked. Throw in HBK (along with the Undertaker and LOD) and you just couldn't go wrong. In terms of story development, they were blowing WCW away. Nitro does not hold up well anymore. Their undercard was great but the main event picture was a joke. Bischoff admitted it on a recent Legends of Wrestling discussion that Scott Hall was pretty much the only one out of the group that could work.

 

One thing that's annoyed me on 24/7 and I think it's been addressed here. On the previous Monday Night Raw, after Austin stuns Undertaker, he flips him off. They actually blurred the image of Austin giving Taker the finger. WTF?! This has been a trend with some of the 90s-era stuff. When they released the old DX videotape on DVD, they bleeped out all the language and stuff. They've pulled back the reigns on this stuff in the last few years.

 

But there's absolutely no excuse to be censoring that stuff on 24/7. It's an on-demand channel which I'm sure is not viewed by a lot of kids. Absolutely stupid as far as I'm concerned.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

If it was censored on the original broadcast or the master tapes, they might just go with it. It's likely not worth their trouble to undistort something.

[cabbageboy 0]

If there is one really notable problem I have with these 1997 Raw shows it's that UT is the world champ but for the most part feels like an afterthought. The whole show is Austin vs. the Harts with some HBK tossed in for no good reason. UT is the champ but his various feuds seem undercard.

[Diamonddust 0]

If there is one really notable problem I have with these 1997 Raw shows it's that UT is the world champ but for the most part feels like an afterthought. The whole show is Austin vs. the Harts with some HBK tossed in for no good reason. UT is the champ but his various feuds seem undercard.

 

I agree. The WWE/F Championship was an afterthought most of the year. It was kind of a side effect of having Taker in the World Title match at Wrestlemania since everyone knew he was going to win, but Austin/Hart was the big money feud. They hit Summerslam and had to have something for Taker to do - so they set up Austin/Owen and Hart/Taker. Austin/Owen was understandable from the Canadian Stampede PPV, but Taker/Bret was kind of just thrown out there. They couldn't put the belt on Austin as it was obvious at this point his first World Title reign was going to start at a Wrestlemania.

 

Then it got even worse when Bret won the championship, but he was then stuck in a feud with The Patriot, while Shawn and The Undertaker were tearing things down in September and then October with Hell in the Cell. Then... November happened...

[Drury37 0]

Anybody else watch the beginning of WCW Starrcade 1998 when Tony Schiavone mentions Chris Benoit and then pause and says "Yes..." like we are surprised he mentions him. I thought it was strange and then Scott Keith mentioned it as well. Quite creepy.

[Guest Rambo1]

why is april 28th and may5th of nitro both only 1 hour?

[Guest Rambo1]

why is the april 28th and may5th nitros both only 1 hour?

[Guest heyguesswhatidid]

why is the april 28th and may5th nitros both only 1 hour?

 

Basketball.

[zappafrank 0]

Is Starrcade '92 up yet? I've been getting all my updates, although this last week, the 2 parts of Starrcade '98 were located in 2 different sections (The Big Ones and I think TV Classics).

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

Next week.

[Darth Pipes 0]

If it was censored on the original broadcast or the master tapes, they might just go with it. It's likely not worth their trouble to undistort something.

 

If it were originally censored, then that's fine. That's preserving the original television content. Otherwise, it's stupid.

 

I never felt the Undertaker was being ignored during this title reign when I originally watched it but I see your point. He was an active participent in the Hart/Austin feud and was basically making guest appearence in it. He would have the storyline with Paul Bearer starting up and had a couple of big title matches over the next few months though.

[cabbageboy 0]

Yeah, the Bearer stuff heats up a while later but it was puzzling because Bearer does his big promo saying UT killed his parents and that Kane was alive, etc. Then they just ignore this for quite a while due to the Bret/UT feud. In fact I thought originally that they were embarrassed about featuring death in an angle and just dropped the whole thing, but then Kane debuted and cost UT the HIAC match.