WWE 24/7 Discussion Thread - February 2008

[Bruiser Chong 0]

In other words, the Sting/Flair match has more historical value than actual content quality. Fair enough.

 

That suicide dive in the Luchadores match on Nitro was absolutely sick. If it was an adult instead of a kid in the seat where Super Calo did his dive, there would have been serious damage.

 

I think they showed this in the Shorties section in May. It's the one where he sails over the kid in the front row's head and winds up in the second row, right?

 

Oh, and Lushus, check your PM.

[cabbageboy 0]

I used to have that Harts/Strike Force tag title change on a Best of the WWF Vol. 15 tape. It's a fun match but it's not really a mega classic. And this is coming from a Strike Force mark, since the first wrestling match I ever saw was a Strike Force match vs. two masked jobbers (Shadows perhaps?).

[spman 0]

Did anyone check out the Boston Show from 86 yet? It was a pretty good Hart Foundation vs US Express match, which was a combination I don't ever remember having see before. The US Express work kind of a heelish style, and actually get put over pretty strong throughout the match, despite the fact that this was right at the end of Rotunda and Spivey's run in the WWF at that point.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

I enjoyed that show. George Steele was a bit of fun in the middle.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

By the way, any thoughts on doing a separate catch-all thread for 24/7 Online?

[MillenniumMan831 0]

I wouldn't mind that. Truthfully, I'd probably be more active in a thread like that (whether or not that's good or not is up in the air).

[Guest bp2007]

I agree. I don't get VOD...enjoy reading the comments but it would make more sense to hasve a 24/7 Online thread too.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

In regards to the scheduling confusion I was having with "Savage / Liz" being listed in week 2 and week 3, turns out this week's update is a Coliseum Video called "Savage and Liz".

[Bruiser Chong 0]

That's something of a treat, since it's one of the hardest Coliseum Videos of the era to find now. Unfortunate to see them dub over the original opening music, though. The original opener was one of the most distinct things about Coliseum Video in the 1980s.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

I haven't watched it but I recall seeing an 80s era Coliseum Video with the "5,000 years" intro and I really liked the music. I later learned via youtube it was not the correct music, but since that was the first time I had ever heard it, I liked it.

[10 Pounds 0]

I wonder why there is no NWA version of House Shows. I mean, the footage at the opening of WCW Saturday Night must come from somewhere right ? Just like the past NWA show with clips of the 60-minutes Flair/Garvin match for exemple, there is surely a tape of the full card in their library. It must be because of Saturday Night's format of having mainly squashes that makes all the stars bigger than they actually are (Hell, I'm actually interested in test of strength challenge between Ron Bass and the Barbarian) but it would be nice to see the blow-off or the big devellopements of the feuds.

 

I like the NWA shows but a few bigger cards here and there wouldn't hurt. If I would be a new viewer without any knowledge of wrestling, I'd be wondering why in the hell Dusty Rhodes is always the big hero of the show when he's doing nothing but interviews....even Flair wrestles once in a while.

[Darth Pipes 0]

The NWA shows do show footage from house shows featuring big-time matches like Flair/Nikita and Magnum/Tully. Flair breaking Dusty's leg and Dusty breaking Ole's were from house shows.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

The difference is that many of WWE's house shows aired on regional sport networks. MSG shows aired on the MSG Network, NESN carried shows from the Boston Garden, Prism carried the shows from the Philadelphia Spectrum. Those shows had announcers and were intended to air on television. NWA arena cards were videotaped but not given commentary or put through post-production. I can't see three hours of videotaped house show like that being entertaining.

[MillenniumMan831 0]

In regards to the scheduling confusion I was having with "Savage / Liz" being listed in week 2 and week 3, turns out this week's update is a Coliseum Video called "Savage and Liz".

 

Like Bruiser said, definitely a CV gem. I was wowed by the Santana/Savage MSG rematches as I really couldn't get into their 2 Boston matches for whatever reason. Just seemed like a helluva lot more emotion and action going on during the MSG matches. Plus, the crowds were insanely hot and sounded like they'd sacrifice the family dog for a Santana title win.

[cabbageboy 0]

Tito was one hell of a worker really, it's a shame a lot of people recall his post Strike Force job boy duties rather than his IC days feuding with Muraco, Valentine, and Savage.

 

The best match I've seen on any of these WWF house shows was from right before WM 3...Savage vs. Steamboat. From Maple Leaf Gardens I think. It was a longer match than WM and I swear it may have been even better.

[MillenniumMan831 0]

Yeah, that was definitely fantastic. I think a part of the reason a lot of people feel that the MLG match was better than the WMIII match is that a lot of us have seen the WM match many many times so when viewing the Toronto match, it seems much fresher. Plus, I think Savage getting color helped as well. IIRC, Steamboat also got to be enraged since Savage continuously used Liz as a shield whereas at WM, he was pissed because of his throat. But yeah, you can't lose w/ either match.

[Guest bp2007]

Yeah, that was definitely fantastic. I think a part of the reason a lot of people feel that the MLG match was better than the WMIII match is that a lot of us have seen the WM match many many times so when viewing the Toronto match, it seems much fresher. Plus, I think Savage getting color helped as well. IIRC, Steamboat also got to be enraged since Savage continuously used Liz as a shield whereas at WM, he was pissed because of his throat. But yeah, you can't lose w/ either match.

 

Was the Maple Leaf Gardens match the one they aired on 24/7 Online because I was going to add how I thought that match was even better even if they ended it in a countout I think.

[cabbageboy 0]

It may have been online but the one I saw on 24/7 cable was Macho getting a somewhat sneaky roll up win over Steamboat.

[Black Lushus 0]

I may be off base here, but a question: Was Shawn Michaels of 1997 (pre-DX) John Cena before John Cena was John Cena, STRICTLY on the way fans react to him? I think Cena gets more 50/50 reaction, but it seems to me Shawn got quite a bit himself back then.

[Guest]

Sorta. It's hard to say, because during his only run on top before '97 he was programmed with guys who were very easy to hate. Since the product was in the shitter as a whole, they didn't run big markets very often. When they ran MSG, Shawn was booed to all hell.

 

And their audience was mostly kids, so I think that says enough about how young adult males felt about Shawn. Which is to say, they didn't really like him or the WWF in general at all. It's different with Cena, because that demographic always makes it to the show and boos the shit out of him.

[Black Lushus 0]

I almost forgot Shawn was running that love me or hate me spiel a full decade before John Cena started clinging to it.

[MillenniumMan831 0]

It may have been online but the one I saw on 24/7 cable was Macho getting a somewhat sneaky roll up win over Steamboat.

 

Must have been a different match than the one shown on the online 24/7. That one had Steamboat win on a countout.

[cabbageboy 0]

Lushus, but eventually the WWF had the common sense to turn Shawn heel. Right now they are just going to keep Cena in this same stale role for eternity. Aside from the notorious Survivor Series 96 show at MSG where HBK was booed big time, there weren't that many instances of Shawn being booed out of a building.

[Bruiser Chong 0]

That Savage program is fantastic. Its only dud is the Steele match and that's brief. I tend to forgot how Santana could go during this time; I think it's easy for a lot of people who got into wrestling in the late '80s or early '90s to strictly remember Tito as the guy who never seemed to beat anyone of importance. But he put together some great matches with Valentine and Savage during his IC title days.

 

Seeing the string of Savage/Santana matches makes me think we'd be remembering Wrestlemania II a lot more fondly had they faced off on the show. I've resided myself to the fact that the Steele/Savage storyline was well done and remains a prominent angle of its time. But it's disappointing to think Wrestlemania that year could've housed the series' first single's classic with Savage and Santana.

[MillenniumMan831 0]

Definitely agree on the Santana comments.

 

From the entertainment aspect, Savage's "tennis elbow" comment to Gene during the At Home segment got a big laugh out of me.

[Darth Pipes 0]

I'll further agree on the Santana comments. The footage of their MSG matches was amazing and the crowd was old school red-hot. They had a big house show feud...even read about a tag match where Tito got Savage to submit to the figure-four.

 

I've been really impressed with pre-jobber Tito. I saw two matches he had with Greg Valentine, a curfew draw in November 1984 and an LA house show in December 88 that were both amazing. It's a shame how he was totally jobbed out at the end but Tito, ever the pro, did that well. I think a Tito/Flair program would have been a damn good one.

 

The Savage video was really good. Not only do you get the great action (and epic Savage bloodbaths) but his interviews were a riot because they were so bizarre. One funny thing, during the video they show a "couple" that wanted to meet Savage and for a few moments, I thought the woman was the actress who played Marcy Darcy on Married with Children.

[cabbageboy 0]

I watched the Clash last night and it was your typical NWA show of the time period...namely very solid ring work and insane booking that wrecked the company. As a kid I wondered why on earth they would start a major show with an Amateur Rules match that went to a 1 count. This is a show where in theory they are trying to attract new viewers and they begin with THAT? Then follow with a hell on wheels US tag match that had a goofy Dusty Finish that pissed me off as a kid. I did quite like the Windham/Luger vs. Horsemen match. Then they also take 20 mins. to set up this barbed wire for a match that lasted all of about 5 minutes. Oh, and a main event title match that went 45 mins. and then the judges had a split decision. Gotta love the judges: Gary Juster (a WCW promoter), Sandy Scott (retired wrestler), some Penthouse Pet chick (!?), Jason Hervey from the Wonder Years, and some dude from a Leave it to Beaver show. Actually it turned out that Hervey and the one Beaver dude weren't judges, though I dunno why since they were sitting at the table.

 

Obviously the Penthouse chick picked Flair. He probably nailed her in the back before the show. Is it any wonder Jim Crockett was going under and had to sell to Turner?

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

I too thought it was a bit odd that they had Jason Hervey and Eddie Haskell sitting at the judges table if they weren't going to do anything, but I guess TBS had to let the folks know that the new Leave it to Beaver was on the way and Jason Hervey was just a big wrestling fan.

[Darth Pipes 0]

I watched the Clash last night and it was your typical NWA show of the time period...namely very solid ring work and insane booking that wrecked the company. As a kid I wondered why on earth they would start a major show with an Amateur Rules match that went to a 1 count. This is a show where in theory they are trying to attract new viewers and they begin with THAT? Then follow with a hell on wheels US tag match that had a goofy Dusty Finish that pissed me off as a kid. I did quite like the Windham/Luger vs. Horsemen match. Then they also take 20 mins. to set up this barbed wire for a match that lasted all of about 5 minutes. Oh, and a main event title match that went 45 mins. and then the judges had a split decision. Gotta love the judges: Gary Juster (a WCW promoter), Sandy Scott (retired wrestler), some Penthouse Pet chick (!?), Jason Hervey from the Wonder Years, and some dude from a Leave it to Beaver show. Actually it turned out that Hervey and the one Beaver dude weren't judges, though I dunno why since they were sitting at the table.

 

Obviously the Penthouse chick picked Flair. He probably nailed her in the back before the show. Is it any wonder Jim Crockett was going under and had to sell to Turner?

 

What I find funny is the idea of Flair having any chance at winning a judges decision. A typical Flair match had him being dominated for almost the entire time and the Sting match was no exception. No way in hell could anyone look at that match and say that Sting didn't win easily if judging it on points.

 

I agree with whoever said Savage and Tito should have been at Wrestlemania. That made a lot more sense (so did having Tito wrestle Valentine at the first WM) and it would have been a great match. I remember reading in a review of the Bret Hart DVD that they considered going with Bret and Ricky Steamboat at WMII but they went with Hercules because they thought he had a bigger upside. Given Vince's fetish for big men and the idiotic booking mentality of the 80s, it's probably true. But still, imagine a WM 2 where Savage and Tito wrestled for the IC title and Bret Hart took on Ricky Steamboat? Would have been like an NWA show.

 

Speaking of the Savge/Tito matches, one thing that annoyed me on that video was the MSG re-match where it was clearly announced that the match had no disqualification. Yet Gorilla Monsoon, Lord Alfred Hayes, and Ernie Ladd (who was a terrible announcter) are all screaming that Savage should have been DQ'd for punching the ref. 80's WWF wrestling for you.

 

I have to say that I'm enjoying the build for WMII during all these old Tuesday Night Titan segments. The Piper stuff showed me how much he buried Mr. T during that feud.

 

[cabbageboy 0]

Flair actually did control quite a bit of the middle of that match. Besides, this is wrestling....can you imagine a judge actually awarding a belt to someone on such a decision without pinning the champ or making his submit?

 

The single dumbest booking on that note was RVD/Lynn from Living Dangerously 99. Very good match but the booking was mindnumbing. The time limit expired and the ref was just going to give Jerry Lynn the ECW TV title, just because he thought in his own mind Lynn was ahead on points. I was watching this with a group of people and at first everyone was puzzled as to why Lynn was almost awarded a belt he in no way had won, then once Styles chimed in that the ref simply thought Lynn had been more dominant in the bout everyone in the room was like "This is fucking stupid! He can't just give Lynn the belt for the hell of it!"