Let's Talk About....WrestleMania IV

[King Kamala 0]

OK, we discussed this show recently and I decided that it'd be a good springpoint for a Let's Talk About thread.

 

This show holds a lot of sentimental value to me. It was the first wrestling tape I ever "owned". Actually, my parents bought the first tape of the two tape set at some yard sale and gave it to me around the time I was starting to get into wrestling. Needless to say I was enthralled cause when I was a mark I liked pretty much anything. I didn't actually see the full show until four or five years later when I smarkened up a bit and man, did I hate it. At that point, I'd probably rank IX, XV, and XIII below it.

 

Then I saw the show last year and it really wasn't all that terrible just incredibly, unbearably long. It's downright near impossible to watch that beast in one sitting. And the crowd is dead for every match except Hogan/Andre (Which has to be the worst match of the night ironically). But there is some good stuff in there (Steamboat/Valentine, Savage's run to the title, the Tag Team titles match). If you watch it in two sittings with a break, it's not a great show or even a good one really but a watchable nostalgiac jaunt but I don't think I could ever sit through it in one sitting again.

 

 

[cabbageboy 0]

Amen. WM IV has always been one of my favorite shows. It was the first WM when I started watching wrestling in late 1987/early 88. I didn't get the PPV at the time (my parents refused to buy wrestling shows, thus I watched Clash of the Champions) but saw it on VHS later. Sure, the show is long as hell but the lame stuff is at least short for the most part and there's some nice solid matches in the tourney.

[MillenniumMan831 0]

I think the show would have been remembered MUCH more fondly if Steamboat was allowed to square off w/ Savage and do the job. Steamboat could have easily shaken his hand afterwards and gesture that Savage is the better man. Would have been a much nicer sendoff than beefing w/ Hebner before losing to Valentine.

[PILLS! PILLS! PILLS! 0]

- I loved the Battle Royale. Everything about it. From George Steele never getting in the ring, to Bret and Bad News double-teaming JYD (I hardly knew anything about their history together in Stampede until recently) to Bret Hart destroying the trophy en route to turning babyface.

 

- Bob Eucker. They really should have inducted him into the celebrity wing of the HOF last year, but it's not too late. His quest for Vanna throughout the course of the show was terrific. And the iconic clip of Andre's enormous hands around Eucker's neck will stay with me until the day that I die.

 

- Anybody remember DiBiase "sacrificing" Virgil and running off, leaving him to get suplexed on the floor of Trump Plaza?

 

- Demolition getting the Tag Team Titles was great, but I was disappointed that Beefcake did not come out of the show as the champion, as I was a HUGE mark for him.

 

- This was one of the few Manias where the celebrity appearances truly added to the event. Robin Leech reading the scroll at the outset of the tournament and the Eucker/Vanna saga were both great.

 

- DiBiase and Savage worked hard throughout the night, but the main event wasn't particularly amazing. They certainly had to keep it a little low key considering that they had already wrestled several matches apiece earlier in the evening. I still enjoyed the happy ending, though, and the subsequent (and subtle) build towards the Mega Powers exploding in the same building one year later.

 

Quick question: Without cheating, can anybody map out the bracketing by memory?

[King Kamala 0]

There was

 

Jim Duggan

Ted DiBiase

 

Don Muraco

Dino Bravo

 

Bam Bam Bigelow

One Man Gang

 

Jake Roberts

DRAW

Rick Rude

 

Ricky Steamboat

Greg Valentine

 

Randy Savage

Butch Reed

 

Second Round

 

Hulk Hogan

Draw

Andre The Giant

 

Ted DiBiase

Don Muraco

 

One Man Gang gets a bye due to Roberts/Rude draw

 

Randy Savage

Greg Valentine

 

 

Semi-Finals

 

Randy Savage

One Man Gang

 

DiBiase gets draw due to Hogan-Andre draw

 

 

Finals

 

Randy Savage

Ted DiBiase

 

Yep, I'm a dork for doing that in under five minutes off the top of my head.

[MillenniumMan831 0]

IIRC, Muraco/DiBiase was a damn fine little match.

[StrapFinlay 0]

Am I imagining things or did Hogan slam Andre at the end of/after their match? I just seem to recall it when Hogan mentioned WMIII was a "one and only" thing (which, of course, it wasn't!).

[MillenniumMan831 0]

He slammed him after the match. They played his music immediately after and he posed for 5 minutes despite being canned from the tournament.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Of course, you had Elizabeth wearing a different outfit for every match.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Of course, you had Elizabeth wearing a different outfit for every match.

[bob_barron 0]

And it rocked, IIRC

[King Kamala 0]

Don't forget Savage wearing four different outfits.

[MillenniumMan831 0]

They were color coordinated . . . but then again so were Muraco and Graham.

[Bruiser Chong 0]

I could go on for days about this show. I've probably seen it more times than any other wrestling show with the possible exception of Survivor Series '89. Certain matches, interviews, introductions and lines from the show are synonymous with my childhood. One of the simple pleasures I had as a child was renting the cool as two-VHS set of this and having a couple slices of pizza. If I ever wind up getting it on DVD, I'll surely attempt to recreate that.

 

And the show should get love if for no other reason than the badass intro I believe was exclusive to Coliseum Video.

[MillenniumMan831 0]

I do remember my dad's friend having it on tape (ppv version). He gave it to me to keep a little after WMV. I thought it was the coolest thing ever. A FREE WrestleMania. I've seen that battle royal probably more times than any match that jumps to mind since I'd often would try to watch it from the beginning in one sitting (as I was/am a battle royal mark). Come to think of it, the WM2 battle royal is probably my most frequently watched match.

 

It was a nice touch to have Okerlund interview the faces and stick Eucker w/ the heels.

[King Kamala 0]

And the show should get love if for no other reason than the badass intro I believe was exclusive to Coliseum Video.

 

 

The one where the WWF logo is flying through the mountains and shit? Good lord, that was badass

 

 

I also am a fan of the opening battle royal. I'm a battle royal mark and that's one of my favorites even if it is a bit jobberific.

[cabbageboy 0]

It's funny, but I read all the time about how much better of a show the Clash of the Champions was than WM IV. Having just watched that Clash for the first time in 20 years I can safely say I don't like it anywhere near as well as WM IV. Yes, some of the in ring wrestling is better on the NWA show, but guess what? The booking sucked and it made me roll my eyes as a kid, and made me roll my eyes watching it last week.

 

I mean the NWA gave you Flair and Sting in a "There must be a winner!" title match that went 45 minutes, had judges, and still didn't produce a winner. The WWF gave us Randy Savage over Ted DiBiase in the tourney finals, and the official formation of the Megapowers.

[MillenniumMan831 0]

While others recreate epic puro matches in Fire Pro Wrestling Returns, one of my first orders of duty was to recreate the battle royal w/ Bret Hart, Bad News Brown, JYD, Ken Patera, The Bolsheviks, Hillbilly Jim, and Harley Race.

 

Eucker: USA IS IN! YESSIR!!!

*Patera gets heaved out*

Ventura: Yeah, there goes USA Eucker.

Eucker: Ah well.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

My neighbor had some family friends that used to order all of the WWF ppvs and they would then send the tape over to us the following week. They started with WMIV and kept the practice going until well into 1991. So this show has some nostalgic value to me (I think my WWF mag subscription kicked in with the WM recap as well).

 

That being said, I was never a huge fan of this show. Now remembering what I didn't like from a show I saw twenty years ago is somewhat difficult, but I remember being confused by the fact that all I wanted at the time was for Savage to kill HTM and Hogan to vanquish Dibiase and neither happened. The whole tournament sort of diverted attention from the feuds that needed to blown off. Granted I didn't know a damn thing about booking as a 6 year old, but I know the whole finish seemed out of nowhere.

 

I liked Bret in the battle royal and Demolition getting the belts. The rest of the show is something of a blur to me, but remember it being mind-numbingly long. In hindsight, I know the Savage title win was a huge success, but I still feel the right move was Dibiase beating Hogan for the title in the main event and saving the Savage program for the summer.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

I've never liked that Bigelow lost in the first round. I know they had to keep the stupid face vs. heel garbage...and Gang was getting a bye into the semis....

 

But damn. Doing the boring draw with Jake/Rude sucked too.

 

I wouldve loved a nice little Bam Bam/Rude match followed by (what would have been sweet) Rude vs. Savage match...

 

...

 

And Steamboat/Savage goes without saying.

 

I'm getting in my time machine and fixing all this...in the altered reality Savage has beaten Reed/Steamboat/Rude/DiBiase to win the title. Plan accordingly.

 

 

[Guest]

Sometimes I like this show. Sometimes I don't. Right now, I like it. Honestly, part of the reason I like it is that it was so LONG. For some reason, a longer show has an easier time holding my interest. I don't know why.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

I've seen enough. It's Uecker, u before e.

[MillenniumMan831 0]

Right, Eucker. That's what I said.

[Black Lushus 0]

maybe they felt Steamboat/Savage would overshadow anything else they do and decided they better not go with it? Also, it would be face/face and you know how gunshy they were about doing that sorta thing back then.

[PILLS! PILLS! PILLS! 0]

I've never liked that Bigelow lost in the first round. I know they had to keep the stupid face vs. heel garbage...and Gang was getting a bye into the semis....

 

Bigelow was injured at the time (I think his back was hurt) so they had to keep his duties short and sweet.

 

Also, Steamboat had already given the company his notice before the show, so perhaps they did not want to have him going over anybody on this show.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Question: Do you like that the championship tournament that was the main focus of the show or would you have preferred a card with Hogan/Dibiase and Savage/HTM?

[Black Lushus 0]

Savage was beyond Honky and the IC title at that point. He was ready for the world championship run...and this way, Hogan doesn't have to do the job. Also, I would imagine Hogan felt he was too far above DiBiase to do a PPV level match with him. SNME? Sure. Not a PPV, though.

[cabbageboy 0]

I've never understood why some people feel that DiBiase should have won the title at this PPV. In WWF terms he had no real credibility as a wrestler at this point, mainly trying to use his money to buy wins or titles.

 

And also I can't imagine them ending a 4 hour+ PPV with a heel title win. Can you imagine a huge tourney like this ending with DiBiase pulling off some sort of screwjob for the title?

[CanadianChris 0]

Was there ANYONE Hogan didn't feel he was too far above at that point?

 

I could never say a bad word about this show, since RANDY SAVAGE WON THE MF'ING WORLD TITLE. That was easily my biggest markout moment as a kid. It was super-long, yes, but it served its purpose as far as storytelling goes. Savage having to win four matches, and having to defeat a guy who'd only wrestled once in the semis, and a guy who'd only wrestled twice in the final, was a great story. Shortening the tournament to three rounds, or something along those lines, wouldn't have had near as much impact.

[Black Lushus 0]

well, by that I mean Hogan was in Giant Killer mode at that point in his career and probably felt a match with the much smaller DiBiase wouldn't draw well. Who knows?