Broadway Brett beats retirement!

[Guest Vitamin X]

I think we can just say he's arguably one of the best, and leave it at that. The whole "BEST QB EVAR~!!1" debate comes up every year, and no one can ever come to a clear consensus on who that really is, there's just way too many factors to consider for each QB, as to their competition, the era in which they played, etc. etc.. It's too difficult to place Favre as the consensus #1 best of all-time because of all those picks, but he's definitely an icon and well, frankly now that the news is kind of settling in and all, I'm coming to accept it and it's just going to be so strange this year for me since I might actually watch a Jets game or two out of habit. I've watched Favre as my quarterback for the entire time I've been into football, I think he's a hell of an entertaining player to watch, so Jets fans will have something to look forward to regardless, I think. I might even get tickets to the Seattle game where the Jets come to visit, because I always wanted to see Favre play live, but I missed my chance back in 2006 because I was saving up to move here. But my loyalty to the Packers isn't going to override how I feel about the situation.

 

EDIT: That's TWO things bob and I agree on. Whoa-uh!

[snuffbox 0]

Three consecutive MVP awards isn't a lifetime achievement thing.

[Mike wanna be 0]

There's apparently some language in the trade that makes it prohibitively costly for the Jets to trade him to the Vikings or anyone else. So Favre is and will continue to be a Jet unless he decides to retire again. Chad Pennington will be cut soon.

 

The Jets would have to give up three first round picks if they trade him. Who the fuck would agree to that?

What if they release him...same deal? Not that they would, but, y'know, just wondering.

 

[Matt Young 0]

Three consecutive MVP awards isn't a lifetime achievement thing.

 

Indeed.

 

I agree that Manning and Brady will likely surpass Favre by the ends of their careers, but time will tell.

[Kinetic 0]

There's apparently some language in the trade that makes it prohibitively costly for the Jets to trade him to the Vikings or anyone else. So Favre is and will continue to be a Jet unless he decides to retire again. Chad Pennington will be cut soon.

 

The Jets would have to give up three first round picks if they trade him. Who the fuck would agree to that?

What if they release him...same deal? Not that they would, but, y'know, just wondering.

 

I don't think the Packers would have any recourse there, but the Tangini consortium, already unpopular in some league circles because of last year's Spygate debacle, would have enemies for life in Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy. Plus, it wouldn't make any sense.

[KingPK 0]

Actually, reading the stories again, it's apparently only if they trade him to the Vikings, so it's probably in there as more of a "There ain't no fucking way you are getting him" move towards Minnesota.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Watch the Bears try to get him. Now that would be something.

 

And for anyone who has any doubts about Pennington leaving, check out the Jets' website. It all but seals his fate. My idea? Drop Matt Flynn and pick up Pennington as a backup to Aaron Rodgers. Essentially that would mean the Packers traded Brett Favre for Chad Pennington and a conditional 3rd round pick, but seeing as how I thought, along with a lot of other people, that Pennington was easily a top 5 QB a few years ago before injuries sidetracked his career, I think it's excellent insurance if Rodgers gets injured or struggles, and I'm afraid going into the season with the rookie Brohm as a backup.

 

Apparently one thing that is encouraging is McCarthy said that no one has ever picked up the playbook as easily or as fast as Brohm has, and has looked pretty impressive in practice. We might even see the guy starting later this year if Rodgers sucks.

[Nightwing 0]

Three consecutive MVP awards isn't a lifetime achievement thing.

 

No, though most of his records are, which is what I was talking about.

 

I agree that Manning and Brady will likely surpass Favre by the ends of their careers, but time will tell.

 

I'm not convinced he surpassed Johnny Unitas, among others. Again, he's certainly a legend, but I think he's a Top 5 at best, Top 10 at worst. Definitely not the Greatest ever.

[TheOriginalOrangeGoblin 0]

Barring injury, Manning will break basically every record Favre has outside the INT one. And Brady has him beat with the team success. Both guys will end up universally rated higher than him barring unforeseen occurrences.

[cabbageboy 0]

I think Elway has to be above Favre as well, considering he beat Favre head to head in a Super Bowl to give him 2 rings to Favre's 1. Elway also carried some fairly mundane Denver teams in the 1980s to the Super Bowl.

[jimmy no nose 0]

Do people think the Jets offensive line is improved enough this year to actually protect Favre? Favre played behind a Packers line where he got sacked 15 times last year. The Jets line gave up 53. I know Faneca's an upgrade at left guard and still had a good year last year, but he was still part of the Pittsburgh line that gave up 47 sacks. They brought in Damien Woody to play right tackle after 5 games there last year for the first time in his career. It just doesn't seem like they've really significantly upgraded it.

[Guest Cal Moriarty]

I think a lot of this board is heavily devaluing Brett Favre's career, but we're in Virtual Boston here, so I don't know what else I expected. Of course he's one of the very best ever. Come on.

 

Well, here we are. Ted Thompson has really put his ass on the line here. Even if the rest of his moves have been great ones, if Brett Favre is anything more than an abject failure in New York, and Aaron Rodgers is anything less than a huge success in Green Bay, it's curtains for him. I don't know all the ins and outs of Packers ownership, but if it's up to the shareholders to give a vote of confidence on their executives, he's gone under the aforementioned circumstances. While I feel the Packers are completely entitled to make their own decisions w/r/t football ops, unencumbered by the wishes of a prima donna superstar or a meddling tyrant of a commissioner, that doesn't necessarily mean they made the right decision here. This has the potential to be a really crippling public relations disaster. I don't think manny Packers fans are going to remark that they're wicked bettah off withatt him. When the reality sets in that after 16 years, the greatest Packer in history is playing for somebody else while some draft-plummeting unproven commodity is running their team, and it didn't even have to be this way, there could be a huge backlash, again, under the aforementioned circumstances. That's just what I think, though.

[KingPK 0]

I think a lot of this board is heavily devaluing Brett Favre's career, but we're in Virtual Boston here, so I don't know what else I expected. Of course he's one of the very best ever. Come on.

 

I'm not. He's got the stats, but he is the (not one of, THE) biggest negative play machine in NFL history as the active leader in sacks and the career leader in INTs and fumbles, saving his biggest blunders for the biggest moments. It's just that a lot of people choose to selectively forget those things when they should play a pretty big bearing on the legacy he will leave.

Edited August 8, 2008 by KingPK

[HarleyQuinn 0]

I think a lot of this board is heavily devaluing Brett Favre's career, but we're in Virtual Boston here, so I don't know what else I expected. Of course he's one of the very best ever. Come on.

 

I'm not. He's got the stats, but he is the (not one of, THE) biggest negative play machine in NFL history as the active leader in sacks and the career leader in INTs and fumbles, saving his biggest blunders for the biggest moments. It's just that a lot of people choose to selectively forget those things when they should play a pretty big bearing on the legacy he will leave.

 

And to add onto this... Favre played in an extremely friendly offense for most of his career that helped pad his stats. People complain that a QB coming out of college padded his stats but that's exactly what Favre did too.

 

He's had 6 seasons with 570+ pass attempts! He had a career high of 607 and then 613 in 2005 and 2006 (Where he added 38 TD and over 7,000 yards to his totals).

 

His career low in attempts is 471... 1992 and 2003.

[Guest Vitamin X]

The argument for all the sacks is the same argument that's being made for his other records: longevity. You play long enough, you see enough and you get knocked down enough. The interceptions are inexcusable though, and all I can think about is the 7 INT game against the Rams in 2001, the 4th and 26 lame duck pass in OT, the goofball throw ahead of the line of scrimmage against the Vikings (HE'S JUST HAVIN FUN OUT THERE.. and losing a fucking home playoff game!), and then of course, last year's NFC Championship OT pick which sent the Giants to the Super Bowl.

 

However the pass-happy offense came because the Packers never had a reliable, injury resistant running back and MANY times- often in the season where you'll see Favre throw the most interceptions- he had to carry the team on his shoulders and the Packers' win-loss record was entirely dependent on Favre. Dude didn't just have a "pass happy" offense- he WAS the entire fucking offense. Instability, injuries, turnovers, and holdouts at both the receiver and running back positions contributed to a lot of those pass attempts, and all you have to do is look at the beginning of the 2007 season when the Packers had virtually no running game going, but still had Favre to throw the ball around to 4 and 5 receiver sets since our receiving corps was and still is very deep. Now we have a very deep and talented arsenal of both running back and receivers.

 

And to further flame the fire, before pointing fingers at Favre's pass-happy stats, look at your boy Brady's: his career low in attempts was in 2004 as a 16-game starter with 474 (when they had their most balanced attack) and he's had seasons of 601, 578, and 530 attempts in 6 seasons as a full time starter (7 if you count 2001). Peyton Manning has had 5 seasons out of the 10 he's played in where he threw over 550 passes. 570+ is not a big deal in the NFL, especially when you play every fucking game and you're the only weapon the offense has for some of those years.

[HarleyQuinn 0]

Dude didn't just have a "pass happy" offense- he WAS the entire fucking offense. Instability, injuries, turnovers, and holdouts at both the receiver and running back positions contributed to a lot of those pass attempts, and all you have to do is look at the beginning of the 2007 season when the Packers had virtually no running game going, but still had Favre to throw the ball around to 4 and 5 receiver sets since our receiving corps was and still is very deep. Now we have a very deep and talented arsenal of both running back and receivers.

 

And to further flame the fire, before pointing fingers at Favre's pass-happy stats, look at your boy Brady's: his career low in attempts was in 2004 as a 16-game starter with 474 (when they had their most balanced attack) and he's had seasons of 601, 578, and 530 attempts in 6 seasons as a full time starter (7 if you count 2001). Peyton Manning has had 5 seasons out of the 10 he's played in where he threw over 550 passes. 570+ is not a big deal in the NFL, especially when you play every fucking game and you're the only weapon the offense has for some of those years.

 

1994 - 582 PA. Edgar Bennett/Reggie Cobb combine for 1,202 yards (15 and 13 starts).

1995 - 570 PA. Edgar Bennett runs for 1,067 yards on 316 carries.

1999 - 595 PA. Dorsey Levens runs for 1,034 yards on 279 carries (14 starts).

2000 - 580 PA. Dorsey Levens/Ahman Green combine for 1,399 yards (5 and 11 starts).

2005 - 607 PA. Ahman Green/Samkon Gado combine for 807 yards (5 and 5 starts).

2006 - 613 PA. Ahman Green runs for 1,059 yards on 266 carries (14 starts).

 

They did have some running threats but more often than not, they had a piss poor run blocking offensive line so Favre "carried" the Packers on his shoulders because there was no depth to the running backs and the offensive line was bad. Couple that with the play calling and of course the assumption becomes that the Packers had a poor running game for the majority of the time.

 

Even in their 1996 Super Bowl run, Brett threw 543 passes. Edgar Bennett had 15 starts and a 4.0 YPC... only had 222 carries. Dorsey Levens only started 1 game but had a 4.7 YPC and 121 carries.

 

543 Passes vs. 343 Carries* (61% Passing) in 1996 despite having two running backs over 4.0 yards per carry. *Combo of Bennett/Levens.

 

As for my "boy" Brady...

 

2001: 413 Passes vs. 287 Carries by Antowain Smith (1157 Yards)

2002: 601 Passes vs. 252 Carries by Antowain Smith (982 Yards)

2003: 527 Passes vs. 360 Carries* (1,280 Yards) *Combo of Antowain Smith & Kevin Faulk

2004: 474 Passes vs. 345 Carries by Corey Dillon (1,635 Yards)

2005: 530 Passes vs. 314 Carries* (1,123 Yards) *Combo of Corey Dillon, Patrick Pass, & Kevin Faulk

2006: 516 Passes vs. 374 Carries* (1,557 Yards) *Combo of Corey Dillon & Laurence Maroney

2007: 578 Passes vs. 332 Carries* (1,484 Yards) *Combo of Laurence Maroney, Sammy Morris, & Kevin Faulk)

 

Favre has had 5 seasons over 580 pass attempts. Brady has had only 1 season over that amount and last season in his record breaking year, he threw 578 passes total. Brady may pass a bit but nowhere near Brett's numbers (I'm not even including his other 550+ attempt years!) even with seasons where the Patriots had to rely on RB combinations due to injuries (Much like Brett).

 

As for Peyton

1998: 575

1999: 533

2000: 571

2001: 547

2002: 591

2003: 566

2004: 497

2005: 453

2006: 557

2007: 515

 

Peyton has only had 1 season over 590 attempts and 2 other seasons over 570 attempts. Again, Brett has had 5 seasons over 580+ attempts. Peyton came close in his rookie year and third year but that's it. He hasn't even come within sniffing distance of 580+ attempts since 2002.

 

Dan Marino only had 6 seasons over 560 attempts with 3 over 600 and one could argue he was in a similar boat as Brett in terms of the lack of a running game.

 

You can make the argument that Brett had to carry that offense due to a poor running game but the fact is, he still played in an offense that greatly benefited his totals.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Thanks for proving my point for me using the exact same stats that I was looking at, Harley. 1,000 yards is not that great in today's NFL where there's 16 games (a running back only needs to average 62.5 YPG for that), and with the exception of 2000 where the Packers had an abysmal defense and were playing from behind a lot, all six of those seasons you highlighted Bennett/Levens/Cobb/Green/Gado (SERIOUSLY?! You're bringing Samkon fucking Gado into this? The 5 game wonder?) the running game COMBINED to break just over 1,000 yards.

 

They did have some running threats but more often than not, they had a piss poor run blocking offensive line so Favre "carried" the Packers on his shoulders because there was no depth to the running backs and the offensive line was bad. Couple that with the play calling and of course the assumption becomes that the Packers had a poor running game for the majority of the time.

 

This is true. The years that we had one of the best offensive lines in the league (That would be Clifton, Rivera, Flanagan, Wahle, and Tauscher) was the chunk of the Mike Sherman/Ahman Green era from 2001-2004, characterized by shitty play-calling and an awful secondary, and taking a lot of the pressure off Favre. Also for a very, very, very long time- I'd say nearly a decade with occasional bursts of non-suckitude- the secondary has been awful and often times the only way the Packers could stay in a game is to throw the ball and force a shootout. To wit:

1994 - Ranked 15th in the league in passing yards defended, 12th in passing touchdowns allowed

1995 - Ranked 21st in the league in PYD, 20th in PTA

1999 - Ranked 18th in league in PYD, 15th in PTA

2000 - Ranked 19th in PYD, 29th in PTA

2005 - Ranked 1st in PYD (total abnormality, because the run defense was so horrible-23rd in the league bad), and 23rd in PTA

2006 - Ranked 17th in PYD, 27th in PTA

 

I guess I can't make the same excuse in Manning's situation, because he had a bad passing defense for a long time, but the offense had to rely on Favre's arm since it was put in a tough spot often times by the play in the secondary. As for Brady? (and I'm not counting his 2001 year because he didn't start like 5 games of them or so, so the attempts number is going to be low regardless) New England has been ranked in the top 10 for defense in both yards and points in 2004, 2006, and 2007. Their worst years defensively were 2002 and 2005, and that corresponds to Brady's top two seasons for passing attempts, with the exception of 2007 in which the Patriots were running up the score on a lot of their opponents.

 

The point there is that bad defense and an inconsistent or underperforming running game will force you into a spot in where you have to throw the ball more to come back. You think there's any other reason why Favre is idolized so much in Green Bay? It's because he put the team on his back and carried it to a .500 record or above in every year but 2005, and to the playoffs 11 out of 16 years, including a six year run from 1993-1998, and a four year run from 2001-2004. And let's not forget that as a result of all that, he's also the NFL leader in wins which is, to paraphrase snuffbox, not a fucking lifetime achievement award.

[TheDevilAndGodAreRagingInsideMe 0]

Didn't this windbag JUST say that he wasn't here for "Broadway" and he "just wants to play football" ?

 

 

I guess that's his twin brother posing at city hall with the mayor of NYC, right?

[Brett Favre 0]

He was invited. What was he supposed to say? No??

[Guest Vitamin X]

You know what, fuck all that shit I said. I don't have to defend this prick.

“I think to the fans, I would say, ‘Continue to be Brett Favre fans,’” said the three-time league MVP, who retired this past March only to change his mind. “There may be some who say ‘no.’ And for those people, maybe they were not die-hard Brett Favre fans to begin with.

 

“Packer fans are Packer fans, there’s a 40,000-or-more waiting list for a reason and that will continue. It’s a great tradition. I’m thankful that I was a part of it. I’m not a traitor. I never will be. It’s a business and that’s the way it works. I gave everything I possibly could give while I was there - and I don’t think people will question that - and I hope that the Jet fans see the same thing and so I hope I continue to have fans all over, that’s what we play for.”

 

Not who, but what. As in, "I play to have fans who follow me, not my team." Fuck you, Brett Favre.

[bob_barron 0]

Didn't this windbag JUST say that he wasn't here for "Broadway" and he "just wants to play football" ?

I guess that's his twin brother posing at city hall with the mayor of NYC, right?

 

Of all the things to knock Favre for, this one is really stupid.

 

[KingPK 0]

As for Brady? (and I'm not counting his 2001 year because he didn't start like 5 games of them or so, so the attempts number is going to be low regardless) New England has been ranked in the top 10 for defense in both yards and points in 2004, 2006, and 2007. Their worst years defensively were 2002 and 2005, and that corresponds to Brady's top two seasons for passing attempts, with the exception of 2007 in which the Patriots were running up the score on a lot of their opponents.

 

To clarify, he started from Week 3 to the end, so you could say he played almost a complete season in '01.

Edited August 9, 2008 by KingPK

[Guest Vitamin X]

Ah, this is true. Brady had less than 3000 yards and only 18 TD's that year, though, so I'm trying to compare complete seasons (since Favre never had less than a 16 game season except in 92 and 93. Ultimately, what matters is this:

 

Brady's postseason record: 14-3. (.823)

Favre's postseason record: 12-10. (.545)

[Obi Chris Kenobi 0]

You know what, fuck all that shit I said. I don't have to defend this prick.

“I think to the fans, I would say, ‘Continue to be Brett Favre fans,’” said the three-time league MVP, who retired this past March only to change his mind. “There may be some who say ‘no.’ And for those people, maybe they were not die-hard Brett Favre fans to begin with.

 

“Packer fans are Packer fans, there’s a 40,000-or-more waiting list for a reason and that will continue. It’s a great tradition. I’m thankful that I was a part of it. I’m not a traitor. I never will be. It’s a business and that’s the way it works. I gave everything I possibly could give while I was there - and I don’t think people will question that - and I hope that the Jet fans see the same thing and so I hope I continue to have fans all over, that’s what we play for.”

 

Not who, but what. As in, "I play to have fans who follow me, not my team." Fuck you, Brett Favre.

 

haha Sweet the New York Farves - he's his own Franchise!

[bob_barron 0]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=txje...t&type=lgns

 

James "Bus" Cook

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

Holy shit...this is the old thread.

 

We made 12 pages of this?

[bob_barron 0]

I think much of it was his comeback.

 

I wonder who starts in QB for the Jets?

[bob_barron 0]

Can a mod merge the two Favre threads?

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Or, can we just forget about this one and let it fall off the page since it involves a six-month old news story will little relevance to today's news.

[bob_barron 0]

Why? It's part of the ongoing saga of Brett Favre, and I posted the news before you started the thread