MMA Comments that Don't Warrant a Thread

[AboveAverage484 0]

Shogun was VERY impressive against Rampage. I'm just saying that he's going to have to prove himself like Fedor did.

 

Beat a top 15 fighter (Schilt), beat a top 10 fighter (Herring), and then beat a top 5 fighter who was number 1 in the world (Nogueira).

 

One big win isn't going to make me surgically attach myself to his nutsack for the next 2 months.

[AboveAverage484 0]

Bah, shogun is starting to be overrated. Beating Jackson is impressive, but Jackson is so messed up at this point that it's hard to really gauge how much that matters. Shogun has REALLY sloppy standup, which he makes up for with a gas tank and agression. I can't believe you think that Silva would be "lunch meat".

 

I don't see him getting past the second round if he faces either of the BTT guys, which is what is most likely going to happen.

Here's another thing that's bugging me right now.

 

This infatuation people have with Quinton Jackson "sucking". He fights Ninja on short notice because of his rehab and then he gets his ribs broken a short time into his fight with Shogun. Oh, his religion, his new lifestyle, it's ruining his career. Well guess what rubes, remember the first fight he had after his "change," yeah, that's right, the one where he have Wanderlei Silva his toughest fight in years.

 

Rampage is just fine, don't worry about him.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

I don't think it's the religion/lifestyle, so much as the brutal KO from Silva in their second fight.

[AboveAverage484 0]

I don't think it's the religion/lifestyle, so much as the brutal KO from Silva in their second fight.

Wait a minute, are we having a conversation in the MMA thread? Most of the time people just post stuff here and nobody ever replies to it.

 

I doubt that has anything to do with it either. He looked like the same old Quinton at the weigh ins and in interview prior to the fight. He got caught in the ribs by a well placed knee from Shogun and that was it, he just covered up the rest of the fight. Actually he should have done the smart thing like Igor did when he fought him, tap out or verbally submit.

[Guest Brian]

http://mmaweekly.com/this_week/top10/index.html

 

The new rankings in the Fighters and Broadcasters Poll is out for the month of May. Here's how the numbers breakdown.

 

HEAVYWEIGHT DIVISION - (210-265 lbs.)

 

The first three remain the same. Arlovski has now flip flopped with Frank Mir, while Pedro Rizzo re-enters the Top 10.

 

1. Fedor Emelianenko - 100 Points (10 first place votes)

2. Minotauro Nogueira - 90 Points

3. Mirko Cro Cop- 75 Points

4. Andrei Arlovski - 69 Points

5. Frank Mir - 66 Points

6. Sergei Kharitonov- 49 Points

7. Josh Barnett - 47 Points

8. Tim Sylvia- 20 Points

9. Heath Herring - 17 Points

10. Pedro Rizzo - 15 Points

 

Others receiving votes - (12) - Alexsander Emelinanenko, (10) -Paul Buentello (9) Ricco Rodriguez

 

 

LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHT DIVISION - (205 lbs.)

 

Shogun and Noguiera leap frog most with impressive debuts in the Top 5.

 

1. Vanderlei Silva - 100 Points (10 first place votes)

2. Chuck Liddell - 89 Points

3. Randy Couture - 79 Points

4. Rogerio Nogueira- 67 Points

5. Mauricio "Shogun" Rua - 60 Points

6. Ricardo Arona - 32 Points

7. Igor Vovchanchin- 25 Points

8. Tito Ortiz - 23 Points

 

9. Babalu Sobral - 20 Points TIE 9. Dan Henderson - 20 Points 10. Quinton Jackson - 17 Points

 

Others Receiving Votes - Murilo Ninja Rua - 11, Murilo Bustamante - 10, Yuki Kondo- 8, Sakuraba - 5, Nakamura 2,

 

 

MIDDLEWEIGHT DIVISION - (185 lbs.)

A definite log jam for the Top 5 spots...

 

1. Jeremy Horn - 88 Points (4 first place votes)

2. Rich Franklin- 85 Points (2 first place votes)

3. Evan Tanner - 83 Points (2 first place vote)

4. Matt Lindland - 74 Points ( 1 first place vote) TIE with Anderson Silva - 74 Points (1 first place vote)

6. David Terrell- 49 Points

7. Ivan Salaverry - 44 Points

8. Ryo Chonan - 29 Points

9. Lee Murray - 17 Points

10. Nathan Marquardt- 15 Points

 

 

Others receiving votes - Amar Suloev - 10 Points , David Loiseau - 7 Dave Menne - 3

 

 

WELTERWEIGHT DIVISION - (170 lbs.)

BJ Penn holds steady at the top spot, but Matt Hughes is gaining votes.

1. BJ Penn - 97 Points (6 first place votes)

2. Matt Hughes - 95 Points (4 first place vote)

3. Frank Trigg - 71 Points

4. Georges St. Pierre - 70 Points

5. Charuto Verissimo- 55 Points

6 .Sean Sherk- 49 Points

7. Karo Parisyan- 31 Points

8. Nick Diaz - 26 Points

9. Jake Shields- 20 Points

10. Chris Lytle- 19 Points

 

Others receiving votes - Jason Black (12), Jason Mayhem Miller (7) Keith Wisniewski (6), Spencer Fisher (5) Dennis Hallman (3)

 

LIGHTWEIGHT DIVISION - (155 lbs.) - No much change in the Top 10 this month...

 

1. Takanori Gomi 97 Points (7 first place votes)

2. Yves Edwards - 80 Points (3 first place votes)

3. Vitor "Shaolin" Ribeiro- 75 Points

4. Joaquin Hansen - 70 Points

5. Tatsuyo Kawijiri - 60 Points

6. Genki Sudo - 45 Points

7. Josh Thomson- 33 Points

8. Jens Pulver- 26 Points

9. Hermes Franca- 22 Points

10. Caol Uno- 20 Points

 

Other receiving votes - Matt Serra - 13, Jorge Gurgel. 12, Marcus Aurelio - 11, Rich Clementi - (7) Ryan Schultz - (6)

[Lei Tong 0]

Like most other site rankings out there, those are complete and utter shit.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

BR4L

 

You would think that someone who's seen enough MMA as you RRR, would not be using the he beat a guy who another guy couldn't beat in a certain amount of time argument.

 

I always use that argument. And it stands. Cro Cop put a massive beating on Kanehara, and Kanehara took it. Cro Cop is generally considered to be the most dangerous fighter in the heavyweight division. What does it say about Shogun if he managed to put an even bigger beating on Kanehara and, infact, stopped him? Kanehara can take a helluva beating, and he couldn't take Shoguns. The man is a killer. An absolute killer.

 

The thing about Silva is that his recovery power is amazing, no one has the chance to take advantage of their hits on him. If motherfucking Mark Hunt can't knock Silva out with clean shots, no one can.

 

Hunt doesn't fight with nearly the same aggression that Shogun fights with. Shogun doesn't hesitate. He won't think twice about stomping your head in if you're on the ground. He flows so well. That's very dangerous for Wanderlei. Case in point: Vitor Belfort.

 

Paragon..

 

Bah, shogun is starting to be overrated. Beating Jackson is impressive, but Jackson is so messed up at this point that it's hard to really gauge how much that matters. Shogun has REALLY sloppy standup, which he makes up for with a gas tank and agression. I can't believe you think that Silva would be "lunch meat".

 

Yeah, Rampage is just a shitty fighter now. Fuck, wins over Arona and Liddell mean shit now that he's lost to The Best Fighter at 205 Wanderlei Silva and Shogun. Rampage is still a top 5er, he just doesn't fare well against Chute Boxe guys because they press the action and he just covers up when they get in close for the clinch. How have you not learned this yet?

 

Shogun has one of two styles that would fuck Silva up.  He also has the reach advantage and IMO he's more intense in the ring.

 

I don't see him getting past the second round if he faces either of the BTT guys, which is what is most likely going to happen.

 

If the BTT guys are going to beat Shogun, it will either be by decision or late-in-the-fight submission. Shoguns jiujitsu 2 years ago was very impressive, I can't imagine how much he has improved since then. You are underrating it.

[AboveAverage484 0]

And this is still based on one impressive win, and a bunch of other wins over cans and no names.

 

Shogun has fought no one that possesses stand up skills on a better than average level, with the exception of Babalu, and, surprise, he lost to him. On the other hand Wandy has stood with Cro Cop and Hunt, both arguably in the top ten all time of K-1. Wanderlei's no fucking Kanehara or Shoji either, he won't stand there and let Shogun stomp his head or soccer kick him. So Wand got KO'd by Belfort, big deal, that was five years ago, everyone gets knocked out sometime (excepting Fedor the machine).

 

And your argument about Shogun and Cro Cop and the whole Kanehara thing, it holds no weight, because every single fight is different. I suppose you think your new God Shogun could defeat Cro Cop now as well. I'm beginning to dislike Shogun and it's all your fault

 

[cartman mode]Also, Shogun's jiu-jitsu is hyah, while Arona and Rogerio's jiu-jitsu is HYAH[/cartman mode]

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

And this is still based on one impressive win, and a bunch of other wins over cans and no names.

 

Of course. And his performances against those cans were better than almost anyones against those same cans.

 

Shogun has fought no one that possesses stand up skills on a better than average level, with the exception of Babalu, and, surprise, he lost to him.

 

Babalu didn't stand with Shogun, the most notable thing he did standing was a front kick, he took Rua down - he knew better. Rampage outstruck Chuck Liddell, and also has a K-1 win over Cyril Abidi, wouldn't that put him "above average"?

 

On the other hand Wandy has stood with Cro Cop and Hunt, both arguably in the top ten all time of K-1.

 

Both of whom take conventional kickboxing approaches to stand up and take their time and pick their shots rather than rushing. Cro Cop was very hesitant against Silva because he was new to MMA and was worried about the takedown. Shogun is a different animal.

 

Wanderlei's no fucking Kanehara or Shoji either, he won't stand there and let Shogun stomp his head or soccer kick him.

 

It'll be kinda hard to stop Shogun after getting clocked. IIRC Hunt was able to do that to Wandy.

 

So Wand got KO'd by Belfort, big deal, that was five years ago,

everyone gets knocked out sometime (excepting Fedor the machine).

 

And Silva just-so-happened to get KO'd when someone caught him with a punch and kept on him... which is what I have been saying is the key to defeating him. Which is what Shogun would do. Big Deal indeed.

 

And your argument about Shogun and Cro Cop and the whole Kanehara thing, it holds no weight, because every single fight is different. I suppose you think your new God Shogun could defeat Cro Cop now as well. I'm beginning to dislike Shogun and it's all your fault

 

 

I do think Shogun could beat Cro Cop, because the key to beating Cro Cop is rushing him as well. Shogun is not unbeatable, it's just his style makes him very dangerous against guys who can't take him down.

 

I guess we can't do any pre-fight analysis using past fights as an indicator any more. Damn. And there I thought predicting Shogun would beat Jackson on the basis of Jackson having trouble with Silva and Shoguns similar aggression in other fights was the right call. Oops.

 

[cartman mode]Also, Shogun's jiu-jitsu is hyah, while Arona and Rogerio's jiu-jitsu is HYAH[/cartman mode]

 

I never said Shogun would sub Arona and Rogerio, he's good enough to avoid getting sub'd though, and he's hard to keep down.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

And fuck allyall haters. Bandwagon jumping is one of the best parts of being an MMA fan.

[Guest Brian]

And Vitor came at him quick, let the hands fly, and I can't recall anyone doing that with Wanderlei. I think Shogun has the ability to win, as do most top level guys.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

I never said Jackson was a shitty fighter, but mentally he's pretty messed up right now. You can't deny that. He is thinking of changing teams as well. He's at a crossroads in his career.

 

Shogun beating him is impressive. BUT one fight is just that, one fight. His standup from what I've seen is pretty sloppy, although you can't deny the results. I think Cro Cop would murder him, because the agression doesn't really mean much if you're all over the place. Cro Cop is a very technical striker, he'd pick apart the holes in Shogun's game pretty quickly. Hell, the reason Wanderlei survived with Cro Cop is not because he went after him, but because he was patient and picked his shots. It was his LACK of a ballsout style that caused the draw/win, depending on how you look at it.

[Lei Tong 0]

I'll just say this: All the steroids in the world won't make Shogun's punches any more accurate nor his takedown defense any less poo/Chute Boxe-esque.

[AboveAverage484 0]

I think you're arguments conflict with each other:

 

Shogun was able to finish Kanehara because of his balls out aggressiveness.

 

Cro Cop went to decision because he is more of a technical striker who picks his shots and doesn't get overly aggressive unless he knows his opponent is about to go down.

 

Shogun has great knees, but I think people are underestimating Rogerio Nogueira's standup skills. I think besides Wanderlei he would be the biggest challenge for Shogun in the tournament. I can't decide on Igor yet though, because I have yet to see him face a true Muay Thai fighter.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Lindland beat Baroni, who beat Menne, who beat Newton, who beat Pele, who beat Hughes, who beat Newton again, who beat Renzo Gracie, who beat Taktarov, who beat Dave Beneteau, who beat Carlos Barretto, who beat Kevin Randleman, who beat Cro Cop, who beat Sakuraba, who beat Rampage, who beat Liddell, who beat Bustamente, who beat Lindland.

 

This bit of MMAth explains why Lindland successfully Knocked himself out at UFC 43.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

In all seriousness, I think Overreem poses a big problem since he's rangey and is very technical, as opposed to Shogun who is sloppy. I also think Overreem is better on the ground than Shogun, which really isn't that impressive.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

BR4L, have you SEEN the Cro Cop/Kanehara fight? And the Shogun/Kanehara fight?

[AboveAverage484 0]

BR4L, have you SEEN the Cro Cop/Kanehara fight? And the Shogun/Kanehara fight?

I've seen both. You're point is?

 

This is getting bad when we're reduced to arguing over who's better based on their respective wins over a can.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Yes, I love your signature too much to go on.

 

In other news... BOOYEAH!

 

---------

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050503/nytu171.html?.v=8

 

Spike TV and the Ultimate Fighting Championship® Brand Announce Strategic Partnership for 2005 and 2006

Tuesday May 3, 10:21 am ET

Exclusive Deal Includes Two New Seasons of 'The Ultimate Fighter,' LIVE Fights, Plus 26 UFC Specials

 

 

NEW YORK, May 3 /PRNewswire/ -- Spike TV and The Ultimate Fighting Championship® organization have agreed to a two-year strategic partnership, it was announced jointly today by Doug Herzog, President, Spike TV and Dana White, President, Zuffa, LLC d/b/a Ultimate Fighting Championship®. The main components of the deal are new seasons of the highly-rated reality series, The Ultimate Fighter, which will premiere Monday, August 22 at 11:00pm ET/PT. In addition the deal includes six LIVE fight cards -- two this year and four in '06. The announcement comes on the heels of the finale of The Ultimate Fighter which drew 2.6 million viewers and more Men 18-34 than CBS's Masters golf tournament coverage on Saturday, April 9.

"The UFC® brand is a sports entity on the rise and we are thrilled to continue our already successful relationship with them," said Herzog. "The passion and dedication that Dana White brings to the sport of mixed martial arts and the brand is the driving force behind its success."

 

"We always knew that Spike TV would be an incredible partner to work with and one of the best places for our product to be viewed. We were right on both counts," noted White.

 

"The Ultimate Fighter is a show like none other and it found its audience like a heat seeking missile from the beginning. It continues to beat down the competition and we can't wait to produce the next two seasons," said Craig Piligian, the executive producer for the show.

 

 

The Spike TV deal includes the following:

 

* A second and third season of the highly successful reality series, The

Ultimate Fighter. Production for Season 2 will begin in early June and

consist of eight heavyweights and eight welterweights. Celebrity coaches

and a host are to be announced. The show will once again be taped in Las

Vegas where the company maintains its UFC® Training Center.

 

* Six LIVE fight cards featuring some of the well-known names from UFC

sporting events. Two will be in '05 and four in '06.

 

* 26 one-hour episodes of an untitled series of great moments from the

UFC® vast library of fight footage.

 

Season #1 (13 weeks) of The Ultimate Fighter averaged a 1.7 HH rating (1.5 million) with a 2.0 (1,015,000) in M18-49 a 2.4 (604,000) in M18-34 and an average audience of 2.1 million viewers. Forrest Griffin (light heavyweight) and Diego Sanchez (middleweight) were The Ultimate Fighter champions for the premiere season and each received a six-figure deal with the UFC® organization. Stephan Bonnar was also awarded a contract after his epic battle in the Finals versus Griffin. The audience peaked during the Bonnar/Griffin fight with 3.3 million viewers.

 

Craig Piligian of Pilgrim Films and Television, Frank Fertitta III, Lorenzo Fertitta and Dana Whiteof Zuffa, LLC are the show's executive producers. Jim Burns is Senior Vice President, Sports & Specials, Spike TV and serves as Executive in Charge of Production for Spike TV.

 

 

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Source: Spike TV

[Guest Brian]

More on the deal from MMAWeekly:

 

More Details on the Huge UFC-Spike TV Deal

 

by Ivan Trembow

 

On Tuesday came the announcement that MMA fans have been waiting years to hear: The UFC has signed a long-term deal to air live fight events on cable television on a regular basis. Not all of the details on the UFC's new deal with Spike TV were included in the press release, so here is the rest of the information that MMAWeekly has been able to obtain. This is essentially a three-component deal, with three different parts that are all complement each other but are still separate.

 

Component #1: The Reality Series

 

The first component of the deal is that the hit reality series "The Ultimate Fighter" has not only been renewed for a second season, but also for a third season. The second season's casting is being finalized in early May, filming is scheduled to begin in June, and the season premiere will be on Monday, August 22nd at 11:05 PM after WWE Raw. That much information was already known. What wasn't known was how WWE's exit from Spike TV would affect UFC programming.

 

When WWE programming leaves Spike TV and heads back to USA Network in late September, original episodes of The Ultimate Fighter will no longer air on Monday nights and will instead begin to air on Saturday nights. Though the replay schedules for each week's new episode of The Ultimate Fighter have not yet been disclosed, the debut airing of the first five episodes will be on Monday night at 11:05 PM. The next seven episodes of the series will debut in a new Saturday night timeslot that has not been announced but is believed to be in primetime (which would mean that each episode would start airing at either 8:00 PM, 9:00 PM, or 10:00 PM). The 13th and final episode of the second season will air as a live fight special on a Saturday night, just as the first season finale did.

 

The third season of The Ultimate Fighter will hit the airwaves sometimes in 2006, and it will also have 12 pre-taped episodes and a live season finale with live fights. It is expected to have the same Saturday night timeslot that the second season will eventually settle into, although there remains a small chance that the show could be moved to a different night for its third season.

 

Component #2: Live Fight Specials on Spike TV

 

In addition to the reality series and its live season finales, the UFC will also produce live fight specials that will air on Spike TV with original UFC fights. Two live fight specials are scheduled to air on Spike TV before the end of 2005, one of which is expected to be the live season finale of The Ultimate Fighter's second season.

 

Four additional live fight specials are scheduled to air on Spike TV in 2006. All of these live fight specials are scheduled to air on Saturday night, although no exact timeslot has been announced.

 

Component #3: Pre-Taped "Best of UFC" Shows on Spike TV

 

The deal also calls for the UFC to produce 26 different "Best of UFC" shows, with twelve years of fights dating back to UFC 1 that the UFC can use as material to fill these shows. The wording of the press release left the possibility open that some of the content on these shows might be highlights of past fights, in addition to showing complete fights from the past. The "Best of UFC" shows will air on Saturday nights in an undisclosed timeslot and will be one hour in length. A final name for the shows has not yet been decided.

 

In addition to all of the UFC programming that will air on Spike TV, Fox Sports Net will continue to air pre-taped "Best of UFC" shows, which have been among the most-watched shows on all of FSN in recent months.

 

Other than the first five episodes of The Ultimate Fighter's second season, all of the programming that the UFC is producing for Spike TV will debut on Saturday night. This has its advantages and its disadvantages. The advantage is that Saturday night is already established in much of the American public's mind as "fight night," with UFC and boxing pay-per-views almost always airing on Saturday nights.

 

The obvious disadvantage is that on the whole, Saturday night is the least-watched night of television by far every single week. However, the first season finale of The Ultimate Fighter on April 9th was still able to draw a strong 2.6 million viewers, despite this disadvantage, and it was the most-watched show on any channel (broadcast or cable) in the key demographic of 18 to 34 year old males.

 

All three components of the deal between the UFC and Spike TV run from now until the end of 2006, at which point the UFC will either A) Get renewed with a huge increase in rights fees in the best-case scenario, B) Get cancelled in the worst-case scenario, or C) Possibly have other cable networks bid on UFC programming if it proves to be successful on Spike TV over the next year and a half. In any case, the sport of mixed martial arts will get more mainstream exposure in 2005 and 2006 than it got in every year of the past decade combined.

[Guest Deft]

Why the hell are they moving new episodes to Saturday nights? Horrible decision...

[AmericanDragon 0]

http://s40.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2S3YJ8Z...8438EU8VRGME6M0

 

K1 max highlight if anyone wants it

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I just finished watching Superbrawl III, WOW! (Jan 97)

 

Pat Miletich vs. Jason Nicholsen

 

- This was a good fight, though Miletich dominated throughout. Lots of chain wrestling and changing positions. Pat kept going for the rear naked choke and Nicholsen had some really good defense on the ground which made it pretty active, but also pretty repetitive.

 

Ray Cooper vs. Taro Obata

 

- Cooper was a monster in this, pounding the shit out of Obata. Good for what it was.

 

Doug Murphy vs. Duke Pa'aaina

 

- This was awesome! Duke is a fisherman and is toooootally the greatest fighter to have ever fought once. Just balls-out all the way through, neither guy holding back or displaying a ton of technique. Short but sweet.

 

Pete Williams vs. John Renfroe

 

- I think a big distinction at this point in time in MMA between the skilled and the unskilled is shown here with Petey. The skilled will not only get the position, but hold it and make good use of it, whereas the unskilled will get it almost by luck and quickly lose it. Granted, the latter makes for funner fights, but the former makes for better fighters. Gotta take yer time in there. Today, the great fighters are able to get and hold the position, but be quicker in the execution of their technique. Not all that exciting of a fight, but Petey showed good technique. He goes on to win the heavyweight tournament since Murphy was injured and couldn't compete.

 

Ray Cooper vs. Jason Nicholsen

 

- Pat was injured and Nicholsen took his place. Cooper ran right through him and the towel was thrown in.

 

Danny Bennett vs. Jay R. Palmer

 

- YES YES YES!!!! OH. MY. GOD! One of the greatest knockouts EVAR~! JR Palmer was hyped as an undefeated fighter who got his wins like Wanderlei Silva, through stomping the shit out of his opponents. Danny Boy wasn't given much of a chance. There were some slow spots, and there were some really, really fun spots. And then there was the knockout. They were standing, JR was tired and hunched over and had his hands down. Danny Boy calmly walks up to him and KABLOOOOOOOOOOEY~! a right highkick to the chops and JR DOWN~! and OUT! Overall, a tremendous fight.

 

John Lober vs. Frank Shamrock

 

- Like the last fight, this one had some slow spots, but overall it was a really good fight. Shamrock showed some amazing technique on the ground but little standing as he got caught about 3 times by Lober and went down. Lober started off slow and boring, just trying to neutralize Shamrock and weather the storm. Shamrock kept going for a heel hook/leg bar/anklelock, but couldn't get it (he went for it like 6 or 7 times) and Lober did some damage in the meantime. Lots of stuff going on, and the crowd actually turns on Shamrock with a "Shamrock Sucks" chant.

[AboveAverage484 0]

Yeah, the Palmer/Bennett fight rocks your world. They had a couple of fights but the one you're talking about is the one where Palmer gets blasted almost out of the ring by a high kick, right?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Fuck yer. That was fucking amazing.

[AboveAverage484 0]

Palmer was so gassed by the end of the fight he didn't even had his hands up. He might as well have held a sign that said "Please kick me!"

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

This is the best thread eva! It's the fucking best! Fuck you lindland, my thread is the fuckin BEST!

[AboveAverage484 0]

This is the best thread eva! It's the fucking best! Fuck you lindland, my thread is the fuckin BEST!

I can't access this page, what's wrong?

[Lei Tong 0]

If the thread was even the slightest bit funny at a fighter's expense, it was probably deleted.

[AboveAverage484 0]

Well saying "Fuck you Lindland" in the title isn't going to help things.