MMA Comments that Don't Warrant a Thread

[Lei Tong 0]

- Sakuraba did have a good amateur career, although I don't know to what extent.

 

- Renzo has some good wins to his ame, but he fought a higher level of competition than Royce and his record refelcts it. As far as pure grappling, Renzo's definitely the better of the two. He has many BJJ titles to his name, plus has done well in Abu Dhabi and can tap many of the other memebers of the family, including larger guys like Ryan.

 

- People think what ken did was a little dramatic and a way of saving face. if he had the strength and lung capacity to yell "PETEY, MY HEART!," then he could've easily said "I quit," or simpkly tapped on Fujita's body or his own. Having Williams throw in the towel seemed more like a way of looknig like he wasn't REALLY quitting.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

I knew about why he became so popular, but what I meant by aura (bad choice of words admittedly) was how in the hell did a pro wrestler become so good at fighting? I vaguely remember hearing that Saku was like a national amateur champ, don't know the truth to that though.

The answer to that would be his amature training along with the BJJ and kickboxing. He was highly skilled at submisions and the mat game, and was a capable at striking as well.

 

I've heard that Renzo rivals Royce, although I don't know how much truth there is to that, and I've seen old BJJ instructions from the Gracies where Royce was the dummy, as opposed to the guy teaching, which was the Gracie with a porno moustache, don't know his name.

It's true that Renzo has taken on more dificult opponents, but he's it's also hard for me to buy him as being at Royce's level with Akira Shouji taking him to a draw and Tamura beating him.

 

What was the story with Ken at PRIDE 10? Why the towel, why the hard feelings after the fight. He was *dominating*. I know a lot of people don't like him, but you can't take away the fact that he's a smart fighter, and that he is pretty well-rounded. He couldn't knock Fujita out, but who has?

I've heard that he took a low blow that might have added to him gasing out. I haven't watched the fight in some time, though, so I'm not sure of it.

 

Heart palpalations or not, Shamrock was obviously gassed by the time he panicked and had the towel thrown in, so it would seem that his decision to do so was indeed just an attempt to look good in loss.

[Lei Tong 0]

Shoji is one thing, but I don't think there's any shame in losing to Tamura. When matched up with someone also near 185-190, he's a very tough guy to beat.

[Guest Fear]

I've heard that Renzo rivals Royce, although I don't know how much truth there is to that, and I've seen old BJJ instructions from the Gracies where Royce was the dummy, as opposed to the guy teaching, which was the Gracie with a porno moustache, don't know his name.

 

It's true that Renzo has taken on more dificult opponents, but he's it's also hard for me to buy him as being at Royce's level with Akira Shouji taking him to a draw and Tamura beating him.

 

Kiyoshi Tamura is a good fighter. And it was a close fight, too.

 

Overall, Renzo displays more skill in his fights than Royce does. Far better stand up, and his grappling is usually more dangerous than Royce's. I don't know that Royce has competed in ADCC. Renzo has had some success there.

 

If the two ever fought professionally, I'd put my money on Renzo.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Tamura is indeed a good fighter, but I would consider Royce at a level above him. However, my belief of that is dependent on a few things:

 

a) that Tamura/Yoshida was a shoot and Tamura lost fairly to Yoshida.

 

b) that even though Royce "lost" the first fight against Yoshida, he kicked the snot out of him in their rematch, even though that fight's goofy rules prevented him from winning.

 

I'll concede that Renzo's stand-up is far better, but his grappling? When has it been more dangerous than Royce's?

 

I'm actually not aware of what the ADCC is, either.

[the pinjockey 0]

Semmy Schilt vs. Gan McGee will round out the field of 16. Pride Site

[AboveAverage484 0]

ADCC is a grappling only organization, a lot of "dream matchups" by MMA standards have taken place there, including:

 

Tito Ortiz vs. Ricardo Arona

Ricco Rodriguez vs. Murilo Bustamante

Nogueira vs. David Dodd

Carlos Newton vs. Rodrigo Gracie

Caol Uno vs. John Lewis

Matt Serra vs. Dan Gilbert

Royler Gracie vs. Jaun Valles

Jean-Jacques Machado vs. Tsuyoshi Kohsaka

Carlos Machado vs Arystos Aleksandridi

Schembri vs Salexander Savko

Mark Kerr vs Josh Barnett

Vitor Belfort vs Genki Sudo

Ricco Rodriguez vs Antonio "Minotauro" Nogueira

Matt Hughes vs Tito Ortiz

Jean-Jacques Machado vs Ricardo Arona

Rumina Sato vs Vitor "Shaolin" Ribeiro

Fabiano Iha vs Joe Hurley

Roberta "Roleta" Magalhaes vs Rodrigo "Cumprido" Medeiros

Baret Yoshida vs Wellingoton "Megaton" Diaz

Eddie Ruiz vs Hayoto "Mach" Sakurai

Mario Sperry vs Larry Parker

 

Eddie Bravo actually beat Royler Gracie last year in one of these competitions.

[AboveAverage484 0]

SICK SICK SICK SICK SICK (!!!!) knee at the end there. Andre looked DEAD. Pretty boring up to that, but the finish totally made it worthwhile.

 

Was it sicker than this: http://216.40.244.4/k1/k12001final/k12001f...v_vs_pettas.zip

[Guest Fear]

b) that even though Royce "lost" the first fight against Yoshida, he kicked the snot out of him in their rematch, even though that fight's goofy rules prevented him from winning.

 

Royce insisted on those rules, btw.

 

I'll concede that Renzo's stand-up is far better, but his grappling? When has it been more dangerous than Royce's?

 

Since 4/7/1994. That's when I'd say that it became clear Royce's style was out-dated. Renzo is keeping up with trends, his grappling is more offensive than Royce's, his strategy is to end the fight rather than hope that your opponent makes a mistake (which has always been Royce's strategy). As Shamrock, Takada, Sakuraba and Yoshida have demonstrated, if you don't give Royce your arm or back on a plate, he struggles to submit you.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

b) that even though Royce "lost" the first fight against Yoshida, he kicked the snot out of him in their rematch, even though that fight's goofy rules prevented him from winning.

 

Royce insisted on those rules, btw.

 

I'll concede that Renzo's stand-up is far better, but his grappling? When has it been more dangerous than Royce's?

 

Since 4/7/1994. That's when I'd say that it became clear Royce's style was out-dated. Renzo is keeping up with trends, his grappling is more offensive than Royce's, his strategy is to end the fight rather than hope that your opponent makes a mistake (which has always been Royce's strategy). As Shamrock, Takada, Sakuraba and Yoshida have demonstrated, if you don't give Royce your arm or back on a plate, he struggles to submit you.

Royce insisting on those rules is a big misconception. He was initially told that the fight would have no time limits and that there would be a finish, where all of a sudden they changed it to a time limit with a finish being an automatic draw. It's just that it annoys me when people call Royce a bitch just because of the "special rules" thing, when in most cases it's not even his own doing.

 

There's another one, Semmy Schilt "beat" Hoost before, you'd imagine he'd be a great K1 fighter.

[AmericanDragon 0]

Semmy Schilt vs Gan Mcgee is the 8th fight in the grand prix.

[AboveAverage484 0]

Well, Semmy has beaten Bonjasky, Michael McDonald, and Musashi and drew with Hoost, which is as impressive a first four fights I've seen. (that sounded awkward, but you catch my drift)

 

He was scheduled to fight in the 2002 GP, but was "hurt" and withdrew, with Hoost taking his place. Plus, he's kind of boring in K-1, I'd rather see him in MMA.

[Guest Fear]

Royce insisting on those rules is a big misconception. He was initially told that the fight would have no time limits and that there would be a finish, where all of a sudden they changed it to a time limit with a finish being an automatic draw. It's just that it annoys me when people call Royce a bitch just because of the "special rules" thing, when in most cases it's not even his own doing.

 

Royce insisted on no judges, Your Paragon of Virtue. It's a fact. He was obviously convinced that no judge working for Pride would score the fight in his favour. Which is a shame for him, because no judge outside of a US boxing match would've judged Yoshida the victor in that fight. The automatic draw was Royce's demand.

 

Regarding the time limit/two rounds change: If Royce had ANY doubts about it, any suspicions, he would have pulled out of the fight or demanded the rounds be altered.

 

After the fight, Royce raised his arms and was paraded around the ring. He looked very pleased with himself. I can't remember reading any interviews where he's complained about the rules (could you link me if you know of any?). Royce wasn't upset with the rules or outcome of the fight, rather he was rightly proud of the fight and happy with how it all went down - a pretty clear indicator all went according to his plan.

 

I'm certainly not calling Royce a bitch, and I don't like it when people (read: Sherdog.com members) whinge about him altering rules. But it shouldn't be denied that he uses his influence and drawing power in very practical ways. Royce himself makes no bones about it. It's just one of those things in life in general - people with power and influence use said qualities to benefit themselves. MMA is no different to any other sport in that respect. Royce isn't the only guy who does this (a fact lost on many Sherdog.com members).

 

There's another one, Semmy Schilt "beat" Hoost before, you'd imagine he'd be a great K1 fighter.

 

He is pretty good. But I agree with benoitrulz4life, he's also boring.

[Guest Pop-Up Pirate]

Maybe some of this stems from the early days of UFC, when Rorion made sure Royce had a nice easy trip to the final. Who knows? But as far as I've read, the special rules in Royce-Yoshida 2 came from Royce's camp.

[AmericanDragon 0]

He is pretty good. But I agree with benoitrulz4life, he's also boring.

Yeah his K1 matches basically consist of a push kick and a jab, repeated for the entire match.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

--UFC 25, headlined by Tito Ortiz vs. Wanderlei Silva, airs on TSN tomorrow night at 11:30 p.m.

 

- WO.com

[razazteca 0]

Does anybody know how well sumo wrestlers have done in MMA? I would think they have a losing record.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I was watching "Making the Band 2" yesterday - something that I don't normally watch, I should note *cough* - and two of the band members got in a fight (3 fights actually) and it was pure MMA! Fight 1: Guy #1 shoots in for a takedown, Guy 2 sprawls and starts pounding at the guys ribs, Guy #1 turns and gives back, Guy 2 slaps on a Fedor-esque rear naked choke. Then in fight 3, they were fighting in the hall, and Guy #1 had double overhooks on Guy 2, then transferred into a front facelock/guillotine. Great stuff. I was marking out like crazy.

[razazteca 0]

I'm watching Pride 18 Cold Fury 2 and I am amazed by the skills of Alex Steibling. The way he escaped every attempt of submission by Allen Goes is awe inspiring, I mean he got out of the Kimera with a side leg hook and was patiently resting in a choke for nearly 3 minutes before he got out of it. Has Steibling done anything since Cold Fury 2 and has he had any big fights since then.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

He fought Wallid Ishmail at PRIDE 19, which was a pretty good match that featured some nice reversals IIRC - called himself the "Brazilian Killer" sometime around then, then lost against Anderson Silva (high kick which caused a nice big cut around his eye). He came back and had a really good match against Akira Shoji and lost that, but I thought he won it, personally.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

He fought Wallid Ishmail at PRIDE 19, which was a pretty good match that featured some nice reversals IIRC - called himself the "Brazilian Killer" sometime around then, then lost against Anderson Silva (high kick which caused a nice big cut around his eye). He came back and had a really good match against Akira Shoji and lost that, but I thought he won it, personally.

Most people did.

 

He's personally one of my favourite fighters that aren't in the big two right now, although after seeing him in Lytle's corner at UFC 47, I think there's a chance that they might pick him up. They should, he's got a very good ground game plus he can trade.

[razazteca 0]

I can't see Alex Steibling fighting in UFC because the ref would call the match the second the choke or submission last longer than a minute. I would'nt mind watching a Royce Gracie vs Steibling match with no time limit but the match would last for hours since neither fighter are offensive minded.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Since I don't wanna start a new thread...

 

What does everyone think of Mark Coleman? I really only got into MMA around late 2002-early2003, so I missed his glory days, so to speak. He seems purely one-dimensional, but his record is like that of Tito Ortiz in my opinion, whereas he has beaten guys that are clearly beneath him, yet gets beaten pretty badly when he is fighting someone of equal calibre.

 

He's also kind of boring, and he doesn't do anything but wrestle. Still, I'd like to hear what you guys think.

[razazteca 0]

Mark Coleman brought a new style to the stale MMA of lay on your back and roll around for 5 minutes. It used to be either all strikers or ground submission specialist in the UFC then Mark Coleman came and destroyed nearly everyone with his Ground & Pound style. He maybe past his prime now but he did win the Pride FC Grand Prix and several big UFC fights.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Mark Coleman brought a new style to the stale MMA of lay on your back and roll around for 5 minutes. It used to be either all strikers or ground submission specialist in the UFC then Mark Coleman came and destroyed nearly everyone with his Ground & Pound style. He maybe past his prime now but he did win the Pride FC Grand Prix and several big UFC fights.

His GP win was pretty lame though, considering how it all went down. I'd say that most of his UFC wins were against guys that don't fight anymore or don't make a name for themselves anymore, that should tell you about that. I don't know, I just don't think it's possible for someone so one-dimensional to succeed in MMA, no matter how good of a wrestler he is.

 

His fight against Minotauro was great, as he probably knew that he'd get subbed on the ground, and when he realized he could not stand with him, he was forced to take him down and the inevitable would happen. Of course, we didn't know that at the time, but still.

[razazteca 0]

Coleman did have some big loses in UFC also such as the overtime loss to Pete Williams of the Lion's Club and I'm not sure but I think he lost to Maurice Smith also.

 

I don't think Coleman is as one dimensional as Igor Vochachan who always looks for the KO.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Coleman did have some big loses in UFC also such as the overtime loss to Pete Williams of the Lion's Club and I'm not sure but I think he lost to Maurice Smith also.

 

I don't think Coleman is as one dimensional as Igor Vochachan who always looks for the KO.

I was watching PRIDE 10 the other day, and Igor's GnP is fucking sick. He doesn't really have the wrestling skills, but if he did he'd be an even bigger monster then now. He should train at like Hammer House or something, as his stocky powerhouse build seems ideal. It was like Nog v. Fyodor in a sense, as he just attacked Enson's triangle, without fear, and dominated him from it, slipping all of his submissions. Enson had a nice tennis ball-sized lump after the match, and couldn't even stand up on his own willpower.

[razazteca 0]

Igor Vochachen does have at least 2 wins by submission one of which is from Cold Fury 2 with a heel hook on Valentijn Overeem which caught the announcers by surprise. I think if Igor learned some Muay Thai from Bas Rutton his stand up skills would be unstoppable.

 

Coleman did use several submissions in the UFC when the fight went to the ground the one everybody remembers is the neck crank. I do remember some fights that finished with keylocks and armbars.

[AmericanDragon 0]

Coleman has never won a fight from any type of arm or leg submission.