UFC 94 - Georges St. Pierre vs. BJ Penn II

[Mik 0]

74 days left until the fight. Let's not escalate this situation too quickly.

 

Don't get me wrong... I want tons of trash talk but it may be a bit too early and we might burn ourselves out before the fight.

[The Niggardly King 0]

GSP, Decision

[HollywoodSpikeJenkins 0]

Trash talk?

 

 

I thought Curry was making a joke.

[Mik 0]

No no no... nothing here was bad or out of line.

 

I think that it just really hit me how far away this actually is and if we start going nuts now we might be sick of it by fight time. Just a suggestion but by all means carry on.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

So long as it's cordial and nothing racist/untrue is said about either fighter it's all good. Just rember what happened to the last guy that called GSP Frenchie

[HollywoodSpikeJenkins 0]

He knocked GSP out cold and then went into the rematch with a back injury and lost to knees to the back?

 

 

Long Island represent.

[NoCalMike 0]

It does kind of suck for KenFlo that he didn't get his oppurtunity against Penn, but I am sure that fight is happening next regardless of the outcome of Penn/GSP. Penn isn't staying at 170 regardless of the outcome. He is doing this to avenge his loss to GSP and to further solidify his status as one of the all-time greats in this sport. As is probably why GSP is taking this fight. That, and the money involved will probably be swell.

 

Kenny Florian aint going nowhere and he will be ready for BJ after this super-fight. Penn/Florian is going to happen, I just hope Florian is absolutely ready for what he is begging for.

 

As far as the whole "leapfrogging" thing. When you achieve "icon" status in this sport, much like other sports, people want to see the icons fight each other. It is a fight that a hell of a lot of people want to see between two current icons of the sport, with the winner possibly breaking through to the next level and becoming an all-time legend of the sport.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

He knocked GSP out cold and then went into the rematch with a back injury and lost to knees to the back?

 

 

Long Island represent.

 

Also the complete and utter decimation that preceeded the knees to the ribs (not back). I'm sure you leaving that out was a complete accident.

[Hawkius Maximus 0]

Trying to downplay the beating Matt Serra took in the second fight is hilarious. Serra got whooped up on. Simple as that. Just like how GSP got whooped up on in the first fight.

 

I don't remember either making many excuses (GSP did claim mental, but he didn't actively say he lost because of it, and his subsequent wins have proven him correct), because both knew they were beaten. Fans shouldn't make excuses for their fighters.

 

And when did BJ Penn achieve "icon" status? To me, that's like...Chuck Liddell, Wanderlai Silva, Randy Couture, Fedor, Nog, Hughes, etc, etc. Guys who have dominated or become unthinkable to not think of when you picture a great champion. I don't put BJ Penn OR GSP in that stratusphere. BJ Penn was on a helluva run in UFC, but then vanished. He returned and lost twice in the UFC, and won three. I dont' see "icon" there. I see "Good fighter".

 

GSP hasn't been tested enough. Beating Hughes twice helps, but he too has only defended his unified title once. He hasn't shown himself to be a fantastic champion. He's on the path, but he isn't there yet.

 

And yes, I realize I'm splitting hairs.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

I agree that neither of them is there yet, having said that if we're going by resume's and quality of opponents beaten I think GSP wins slightly.

[The Niggardly King 0]

But BJ has held the title in two different divisions... only other guy who has done that is Couture. I think that should put him a notch or two above GSP at the moment.

[HollywoodSpikeJenkins 0]

I agree that neither of them is there yet, having said that if we're going by resume's and quality of opponents beaten I think GSP wins slightly.

 

 

Get the hell out of town. GSP above Penn based on their resumes alone? Seriously?

 

 

GSP is a talented fighter. BJ Penn is World Class. Huge difference.

[Mik 0]

Jon Fitch vs. Gono bout agreements are out to both fighters. Should have happened already if not for an injury to Gono.

 

Nice addition.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

If anybody feels like comparing GSP's five straight against Miller/Trigg/Sherk/Penn/Hughes against anything BJ has done his his career, feel free.

 

Also, it's really sad to see Spike's GSP bias slowly trickling out here. I mean, at the very least save it for a couple weeks before the fight. Now it's just premature bjeaculation.

[HollywoodSpikeJenkins 0]

Oh please. I think your man-crush on GSP is blinding you from the ability of BJ.

 

Yes, please, lets compare GSP's wins over Miller, Trigg, Sherk and Hughes to BJ's record? Wins over Gracies, Hughes, Sherk, Gomi, Din Thomas, Pulver, amongst others. Lets not forget BJ being only the second man in history to hold a championship in two different weight classes (and soon will hold two championships in different weight classes at the same time). Also, lets forget about all the Jiu Jitsu credentials, which include receiving his black belt after only 5 years of training and winning at The Worlds.

 

What was GSP doing when all of that was going on? Walking around backwards while doing a handstand?

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Your scouting of other members posts is mediocre at best. I have said on multiple occasions that GSP, if he were to lose to anybody that it would be BJ who would give him problems. Stop acting like I am somehow refusing to give Penn his props. Have he shown himself to be a serious prick on prior occasion? Not even debateable. Is he an extremely decorated fighter who's one of the best in the world? No doubt.

 

If we're going by parallel victories GSP holds TWO over Hughes and though they were more drawn out the domination was none the less on par with anything BJ did in his fight. I was tempted not to mention how GSP destroyed Sherk way worse then BJ because that would indicate that GSP showed actual versatility in his fight with Sherk whereas BJ was content to throw jabs and hooks for almost four rounds whereas it took GSP a round and two minutes to showcase his dominance.

 

But to answer your question I think while BJ was earning all of his pretty accomplishements GSP was doing........nothing? Kyokoshin Karate, maybe?

 

I imagine that's what frustrates BJ more then anything. Somebody out there other then him took to doing this more naturally.

[Hawkius Maximus 0]

...My god. What have I done by claiming that I didn't particularly care for this fight?

 

Instead of focusing their hate on me, the war has begun.

 

I have begun the end days of this folder.

[Lei Tong 0]

I imagine that's what frustrates BJ more then anything. Somebody out there other then him took to doing this more naturally.

 

I think that's a pretty debatable argument. You could argue the versatility of either fighter being greater all day, but it's not a hands down win for either guy. I don't think anyone would argue that BJ's jiu-jitsu will likely always be better than GSP, they're striking is comparable, and Georges' wrestling is superior. However, on the idea of "natural" talent, I don't see how you could not give BJ credit for being a Top 5 caliber fighter in TWO divisions. Whereas St. Pierre is among the biggest and strongest welterweights around, BJ has essentially been a chubby lightweight who fights at welterweight (or even middleweight and light heavyweight) on a whim. I'm doubtful GSP could be competitive with a Top 5 MW, personally.

 

Weight jumping isn't NECESSARY for a fighter to be considered great, but to downplay the few who can do it with some success (Penn, Yamamoto, etc.) is doing them a disservice.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Weight jumping isn't NECESSARY for a fighter to be considered great, but to downplay the few who can do it with some success (Penn, Yamamoto, etc.) is doing them a disservice.

 

Agreed, he never seems to understand the significance of weight class moving, especially in terms of its effects on P4P rankings.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

I can't see GSP fighting Lyoto Machida at a catchweight match and giving him an extremely tough fight. BJ won that fight narrowly IMO.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

I imagine that's what frustrates BJ more then anything. Somebody out there other then him took to doing this more naturally.

 

I think that's a pretty debatable argument. You could argue the versatility of either fighter being greater all day, but it's not a hands down win for either guy. I don't think anyone would argue that BJ's jiu-jitsu will likely always be better than GSP, they're striking is comparable, and Georges' wrestling is superior. However, on the idea of "natural" talent, I don't see how you could not give BJ credit for being a Top 5 caliber fighter in TWO divisions. Whereas St. Pierre is among the biggest and strongest welterweights around, BJ has essentially been a chubby lightweight who fights at welterweight (or even middleweight and light heavyweight) on a whim. I'm doubtful GSP could be competitive with a Top 5 MW, personally.

 

Weight jumping isn't NECESSARY for a fighter to be considered great, but to downplay the few who can do it with some success (Penn, Yamamoto, etc.) is doing them a disservice.

 

I've never said that BJ isn't a top P4P fighter. IMO it's him, Fedor, Silva and GSP then there's a huge drop-off for the others.

[Lei Tong 0]

But you insinuated (if not outright stated) that GSP had more natural talent than BJ, which is a very debatable statement. My point is that when BJ comes into a welterweight fight out of shape and still manages to hang with bigger, world class fighters, I'd say that natural talent is a large part of what makes him able to compete.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

You're right, I should have used "evolved quicker" rather then possesing natural talent because GSP has been doing this for a shorter period of time then BJ and every single fight made leaps and bounds in terms of improvement.

 

Was BJ a grappler before he turned to MMA?

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

About the grappling thing? Or the whole thing?

 

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

But BJ can put his legs behind his head WITH NO HANDS.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

About the grappling thing? Or the whole thing?

 

The grappling thing. Not trying to be a dick, but you've made outlandish statements in this thread for the sole purpose of being a dick, so I thought you were being sarcastic in order to prove some point that I missed.

 

Anyway, he was a grappling phenom blah blah blah first american black belt, first to reach it in four years blah blah first american to win the bjj championships at the black belt level. Basically a legit grappler before there was any talk of MMA.

 

But the guy was always a fighter, and wanted to make the jump into MMA. So he did something unprecedented at the time, especially since the Zuffa era had just started; he made his pro debut in the UFC. While he was still just a grappler who got all striking training from street fights until he actually made his MMA debut, he still managed to knock out Din Thomas and Kaoru Uno in two of his first three fights. Two solid professionals like that is crazy considering he was a 22 year old kid at the time, who was just supposed to be a "grappler". Anyway, he got over-confident vs. Jens Pulver, learned from it and you know the rest.

[HollywoodSpikeJenkins 0]

February 1st, this board is going to explode no matter what the outcome is.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

I'll be up-front and say that BJ winning will not surprise me in the least. Fuck, when GSP fights I always think he's going to lose so that if it does happen I won't be so shocked and to me that's what good about this fight. Regardless of who you're cheering for I think even the most ardent BJ or GSP fans will admit that the other fighter has a shot.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

I'll be up-front and say that BJ winning will not surprise me in the least.

 

Good.

 

So if I hear anymore shit talking from you... I'm going to use this post for evidence