workers who get called great but you disagree

[chrislatimer 0]

Sort of a spinoff of other topics, but i am basing this topic on my view of dusty rhodes. Where did he get his repuation for being great from. i have saw a lot of his work and most of it bored me to tears. To me he will always be a fat poor mans hulk hogan.

 

now whose some workers who get called great who your not so keen on.

[King Kamala 0]

How the heck can Dusty Rhodes be a poor man's Hulk Hogan when he debuted almost a decade before him?

[bob_barron 0]

Why are your topics written in lower case? Your post and topic title need more usage of the shift button.

 

Also, no one considers Dusty a great technical worker, but he knows how to work a crowd and get them involved in a match, which is half the battle right there.

[chrislatimer 0]

firstly i got banned of 3 forums for my love of the upper case so i dont do it any more.

 

Now for dusty of course he can be compared to hogan its the advantage of history

 

And i personally think shaking your fat ass in the ring and hitting a lot of elbows does not make you great. Theres been better then dusty at getting the crowd involved in a match and they are not considered in his league.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Dusty is unfortunately best known for the mid to late 80s, when he got older and hung on to the top too long. In the 1970s, he was the national #2 babyface behind Andre the Giant.

[bob_barron 0]

Firstly I got banned of [sic] 3 forums for my love of the upper case so I dont do it any more.

 

Well if it was for POSTING LIKE THIS, of course you'd be banned. doesn't mean you have to post like this.

 

Now for Dusty of course he can be compared to Hogan its [sic] the advantage of history

 

Dusty came before Hogan though, so you can't really call him the poor man's Hogan. Also, Dusty drew tons of money, so obviously something about him worked.

 

And i personally think shaking your fat ass in the ring and hitting a lot of elbows does not make you great.

 

But no one considers him this amazing technical wrestler who put on **** matches. Dusty was great at making the crowd care about him and storylines from his charisma, promos and ability to work a crowd. He had "it".

 

Theres been better then dusty at getting the crowd involved in a match and they are not considered in his league.

 

But how many have had the run at the top like Dusty did and drew money?

[Burning Pirate Ship Sex 0]

firstly i got banned of 3 forums for my love of the upper case so i dont do it any more.

 

Now for dusty of course he can be compared to hogan its the advantage of history

 

And i personally think shaking your fat ass in the ring and hitting a lot of elbows does not make you great. Theres been better then dusty at getting the crowd involved in a match and they are not considered in his league.

 

As opposed to tearing your shirt and wagging your finger?

 

Neither Hogan nor Dusty were great wrestlers compared to the best ones of their era. However, what they did do worked, and they were smart to play to that. Which, is the hallmark of a great, smart worker. Both had unbelievable charisma, could cut money promos on a dime during their peak, and could sell a beating incredibly well, so that when it was time to make the comeback and go home, the fans would buy it hook, line and sinker.

 

Good wrestlers? No. Great workers? Yes.

[Diamonddust 0]

firstly i got banned of 3 forums for my love of the upper case so i dont do it any more.

 

Now for dusty of course he can be compared to hogan its the advantage of history

 

And i personally think shaking your fat ass in the ring and hitting a lot of elbows does not make you great. Theres been better then dusty at getting the crowd involved in a match and they are not considered in his league.

 

As it's been already said but it needs repeating, Dusty drew ridiculous amounts of money and was only behind Andre the Giant in terms of national popularity in a time when wrestling was at its most regional.

 

Calling Dusty a "bad worker" is ludicrous. He knew how to work a crowd to the building, and he knew how to work them when they were in the seats. Being a great "technical" wrestler is so vastly overrated, it's not even funny anymore. If you can generate money, which Dusty did, that's ALL that matters. Period. Dusty had "it" as did all the other great draws that might not be consider great "workers".

[chrislatimer 0]

Dusty came before Hogan though, so you can't really call him the poor man's Hogan. Also, Dusty drew tons of money, so obviously something about him worked.

 

I never said he did not draw money and it is only my opinion about him

 

But no one considers him this amazing technical wrestler who put on **** matches. Dusty was great at making the crowd care about him and storylines from his charisma, promos and ability to work a crowd. He had "it".

 

I am not mentioning techicnical wrestling. i am mentioning the all around package. And about the crowd caring for him he did have that ability yes.

 

But how many have had the run at the top like Dusty did and drew money?

 

Ah here comes the best point of all. Give me some examples of when he was truly on top when he was not booking or was not in the bookers ear. The only one that comes to my mind is his brief run in new york with billy graham. The thing was dusty booked dusty at the top its a fact he loves himself that god damn much. Am not knocking dusty's booking ability as he was and still is a genius when it comes to creating and booking wrestling related stuff. But his main flaw was that Dusty booked himself mega strong.

[Burning Pirate Ship Sex 0]

As an addendum, having a wrestler who is a great technician, as well as being charismatic, cutting money promos, and being able to master the crowd is extremely rare, both now and then. That's what made someone like Flair so damn special-he had everything down. However, are there guys who, overall, can compare to Flair in terms of being a great worker? Yes. Dusty, Hogan, Andre, etc are all up there with Flair as being great workers, despite paling in every respect when it comes to wrestling ability.

[Burning Pirate Ship Sex 0]

Ah here comes the best point of all. Give me some examples of when he was truly on top when he was not booking or was not in the bookers ear. The only one that comes to my mind is his brief run in new york with billy graham. The thing was dusty booked dusty at the top its a fact he loves himself that god damn much. Am not knocking dusty's booking ability as he was and still is a genius when it comes to creating and booking wrestling related stuff. But his main flaw was that Dusty booked himself mega strong.

 

It doesn't matter if Dusty was booking or had the booker's ear. He drew, period. How many wrestlers have either been booker or had the booker's ear and not drawn a dime? Plenty. But, Dusty did, and that's all that matters. In fact, I'd argue that the main reason Dusty could get into the booker's ear was the fact that he WAS a draw, and used that power to gain influence backstage.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Ah here comes the best point of all. Give me some examples of when he was truly on top when he was not booking or was not in the bookers ear. The only one that comes to my mind is his brief run in new york with billy graham. The thing was dusty booked dusty at the top its a fact he loves himself that god damn much. Am not knocking dusty's booking ability as he was and still is a genius when it comes to creating and booking wrestling related stuff. But his main flaw was that Dusty booked himself mega strong.

 

In the 1970s, he toured. He main evented in the AWA, Florida, Georgia, Mid South, St. Louis, Kansas City, All Japan, WWWF, to name a few. Either he had every promoter's ear or he was really, genuinely popular.

[bob_barron 0]

I am not mentioning techicnical [sic] wrestling. I am mentioning the all around package.

 

Besides the fact that he couldn't work MOTYC, he could talk, he had charisma, he could control the crowd and he drew money. That's all you ask for.

 

Give me some examples of when he was truly on top when he was not booking or was not in the bookers ear.

 

I don't know about the Florida scene in the 70s, but as Leonard points out, it doesn't matter. The guy drew.

 

The thing was dusty booked dusty at the top its a fact he loves himself that god damn much.

 

But it worked!

[chrislatimer 0]

Ah here comes the best point of all. Give me some examples of when he was truly on top when he was not booking or was not in the bookers ear. The only one that comes to my mind is his brief run in new york with billy graham. The thing was dusty booked dusty at the top its a fact he loves himself that god damn much. Am not knocking dusty's booking ability as he was and still is a genius when it comes to creating and booking wrestling related stuff. But his main flaw was that Dusty booked himself mega strong.

 

In the 1970s, he toured. He main evented in the AWA, Florida, Georgia, Mid South, St. Louis, Kansas City, All Japan, WWWF, to name a few. Either he had every promoter's ear or he was really, genuinely popular.

 

One thing main eventing but in at least a third to half of them places he didnt draw as much as people think he did. And i already said he drew in the wwf/wwwf.

 

And for the record am not calling him a bad worker. i just find it weird hes compared to true greats like funk. flair. sadly hogan. harley race, andre.

 

Oh and a reason for hogans greatness was that he carried 2 different company's on his shoulders as the main star. Dusty couldnt of carried a terrority on his back without booking himself or having eddie graham doing it for him.

[Burning Pirate Ship Sex 0]

And for the record am not calling him a bad worker. i just find it weird hes compared to true greats like funk. flair. sadly hogan. harley race, andre.

 

Oh and a reason for hogans greatness was that he carried 2 different company's on his shoulders as the main star. Dusty couldnt of carried a terrority on his back without booking himself or having eddie graham doing it for him.

 

He's compared to the "true greats", because he's one of them.

 

And again, it doesn't matter if he was booking or if the booker pushed him, he drew. Would any of the workers you mentioned drawn unless the bookers put them into a position to draw? No. Not any one of them. The reason they drew is that they were given a chance to, and once there, could leverage that ability to draw in other places, and influence bookers in other territories or companies.

[chrislatimer 0]

I understand your points , but i have never been able to see the greatness in dusty rhodes

[Burning Pirate Ship Sex 0]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Y1TsNzT0MU

 

Take a look at this promo. Don't think its great? Don't think that you do this in any promotion, it's going to resonate to the viewing audience?

 

This is only one of the reasons Dusty was a great worker. Hell, that promo TODAY would draw money.

[Maztinho 0]

Even watching Dusty in his old flabby polka-dot wearing days, he got me to care. He made me care about Sapphire, man... Sapphire. Then I went back and saw what he was before that, wow.

 

He's like a Mick Foley, doesn't do a whole lot in the ring, doesn't have "the look" but the guy made you care. He made me care about Lex Lugar as a heel... that alone makes him a great.

 

If you list Hogan as an All Time Great you have to list Dusty because they are the same wrestler (limited moveset, great promo) only one is more Deep Fried and Double Wide than the other.

[PILLS! PILLS! PILLS! 0]

Brody, did you recruit this guy?

[King Cucaracha 0]

If you list Hogan as an All Time Great you have to list Dusty because they are the same wrestler (limited moveset, great promo) only one is more Deep Fried and Double Wide than the other.

 

Well, no. I'm not saying Dusty isn't an all-time great or anything like that. But, I own Hogan's DVD but wouldn't consider buying Dusty's, because I couldn't see myself watching a DVD with nothing but his matches. Even if his promos were fantastic and he drew money etc. etc.

 

It's personal opinion. Just like this guy's personal opinion that he never considered Dusty great.

 

 

Okay, I'll bite, so now you can all tear me a new one instead.

 

Harley Race.

[cabbageboy 0]

Ah, I see Cucaracha read my post in another thread where I too pondered the greatness of Race. As a kid I never got why he was supposed to be any good, since I mostly saw his WWF 1986-88 run where he was past his prime and doing the foolish King gimmick. However, through Flair's DVD I got to see the build to the first Starrcade and on 24/7 they had a bunch of Race stuff and I was much more impressed with him. I recall Ryne Sandberg's HOF speech where he said something like "If you saw me play once, you wouldn't think I was anything special. If you saw me play every day, then you might see something in me." Race also rarely used restholds in his matches, which to me epitomizes what workrate is all about: Do something in the ring, dammit.

 

Someone I mentioned in another thread that is often mentioned as a great but I disagree is Ted DiBiase. He was good, but I think it is silly to call him some sort of great worker. I couldn't tell you a great DiBiase match, although most of his Mid South work is harder to find. Really good gimmick of course, terrific voice and cackle, but was he ever really an all time great?

[Diamonddust 0]

Bret Hart would be mine. I liked Bret a great deal as a kid, but as I look back on it now... there really wasn't anything special to it. I did like Bret during the Hart Foundation run in '97, but Montreal left me with a bad impression of him.

 

I guess I have now progressed to looking at pro-wrestling with a business and economic viewpoint, and how that should be a determining factor when it comes to deciding who is called "great".

 

Flame away.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

The Dusty dvd is actually worth watching/buying, IMO. Most of the matches are fairly good.

[King Cucaracha 0]

To be fair, I felt the same way about both Piper and Jake's DVDs too and I'm more of a fan of them.

 

Looking it over again the match listing doesn't look bad. Just not 'spectacular', I guess.

 

Ah, I see Cucaracha read my post in another thread where I too pondered the greatness of Race. As a kid I never got why he was supposed to be any good, since I mostly saw his WWF 1986-88 run where he was past his prime and doing the foolish King gimmick. However, through Flair's DVD I got to see the build to the first Starrcade and on 24/7 they had a bunch of Race stuff and I was much more impressed with him.

 

I'd agree with that. Even the Flair matches though, obviously the matches are classics, but even from them I never came away from them thinking "Boy, Harley Race was one of the best ever" as I was expecting. I'll admit to my knowledge or viewing of pro wrestling pre-1980 being pretty slim, so maybe I just need to see more of him. But from what I've seen (admittedly more WWF than NWA probably), I just never 'got it' yet.

[Youth N Asia 0]

Chirs Hero is a good wrestler, who has good matches, but the internet fan praise him as a freaking legend

[CBright7831 0]

As an addendum, having a wrestler who is a great technician, as well as being charismatic, cutting money promos, and being able to master the crowd is extremely rare, both now and then. That's what made someone like Flair so damn special-he had everything down. However, are there guys who, overall, can compare to Flair in terms of being a great worker? Yes. Dusty, Hogan, Andre, etc are all up there with Flair as being great workers, despite paling in every respect when it comes to wrestling ability.

I'm about to go off-topic a little, but did Flair ever wrestle Andre?

[Diamonddust 0]

As an addendum, having a wrestler who is a great technician, as well as being charismatic, cutting money promos, and being able to master the crowd is extremely rare, both now and then. That's what made someone like Flair so damn special-he had everything down. However, are there guys who, overall, can compare to Flair in terms of being a great worker? Yes. Dusty, Hogan, Andre, etc are all up there with Flair as being great workers, despite paling in every respect when it comes to wrestling ability.

I'm about to go off-topic a little, but did Flair ever wrestle Andre?

 

This tape lists a tag-match featuring Flair and Andre on opposite ends:

http://www.wrestletapes.net/bestofricflairvol1.html

 

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

As an addendum, having a wrestler who is a great technician, as well as being charismatic, cutting money promos, and being able to master the crowd is extremely rare, both now and then. That's what made someone like Flair so damn special-he had everything down. However, are there guys who, overall, can compare to Flair in terms of being a great worker? Yes. Dusty, Hogan, Andre, etc are all up there with Flair as being great workers, despite paling in every respect when it comes to wrestling ability.

I'm about to go off-topic a little, but did Flair ever wrestle Andre?

They had a match in 1976 that finished as a runner up for Match of the Year in the Apter Mags.

[King Kamala 0]

Ric Flair fought Andre The Giant during Flair's first NWA U.S. title run in 1977. One of their matches won 2nd Runner Up for PWI Match of The Year. I'm not sure if the match is on tape but I vividly remember seeing a picture of Flair and Andre having a staredown at the beginning of said match during one of those "Remember When" columns in PWI or one of the magazines of that ilk.

[Star Ocean 3 0]

Chirs Hero is a good wrestler, who has good matches, but the internet fan praise him as a freaking legend

 

Every time I see him I feel embarrassed for him because he just looks so sloppy. I don't know why people like him.