Let's Talk About: The NWO

[dubq 0]

And Bischoff was just some shitty announcer who got lucky that Ted Turner basically gave him a blank check which allowed him to sign everyone under the sun. Who's he to criticize anyone? The one good idea he had was ripped off from Japan.

 

How's that?

 

Bischoff came up with the idea during a trip to Japan (ie: to have a legit other organization kayfabe invade WCW).. but I don't think any Japanese league was doing an angle similar to that beforehand.

[The Buzz 0]

I thought it was due to the UWF/NJPW joint shows or something.

[dubq 0]

Weren't those really just interpromotional matches/cards, though? I don't think there was a storyline of one "invading" the other.

[Diamonddust 0]

I thought it was due to the UWF/NJPW joint shows or something.

 

Invasion angles had been done numerous times (UWF vs. JCP for example, and may we not forget the actual Invasion). They were just usually botched so badly because of the politics and ego involved (Well, I'm not losing to that guy... he came from a LESSER territory/group so I'm going to have my wife beat him up). At least Bischoff was able to create a rival group from his own talent and play it off as an invading force. Say what you want about the guy, but when the NWO angle was over... it was white-hot.

[Thanks for the Fish 0]

Bischoff allowed two WWF wrestlers to come in and essentially dominate his whole roster, whereas when Vince bought and owned WCW he still couldn't allow any of "his" guys to lose to "WCW" guys in any meaningful way to better sell the drama. It's just too bad Bischoff didn't know how to end it - maybe his ego got involved there and he couldn't put a bullet in his greatest professional success.

[cabbageboy 0]

The NWO angle had a few good months before it got really stale, I can say that from watching the old Nitros on 24/7. By early 1997 it was already stale as hell compared to the WWF's crazy new direction. Bischoff put all his eggs in that Starrcade 1997 basket. Most of 1997 was filler to get to that show. When you're a booker and you do that then you better deliver big on that show, and he certainly did not.

 

Here's what a lot of people never got about the WCW invasion: There was a total lack of suspense behind it. By early 2001 WCW was a dead in the water brand name. These guys weren't on the WWF's level, so what could Vince really do with that group if they invaded? No one wanted to see that proposed scenario where WCW would take over Raw and make it Nitro. That idea would have sucked and pissed off TNN to no end as well.

[fisticuffs 0]

The NWO angle had a few good months before it got really stale, I can say that from watching the old Nitros on 24/7. By early 1997 it was already stale as hell compared to the WWF's crazy new direction. Bischoff put all his eggs in that Starrcade 1997 basket. Most of 1997 was filler to get to that show. When you're a booker and you do that then you better deliver big on that show, and he certainly did not.

 

Here's what a lot of people never got about the WCW invasion: There was a total lack of suspense behind it. By early 2001 WCW was a dead in the water brand name. These guys weren't on the WWF's level, so what could Vince really do with that group if they invaded? No one wanted to see that proposed scenario where WCW would take over Raw and make it Nitro. That idea would have sucked and pissed off TNN to no end as well.

 

Bischoff and WCW could have rebounded big in 1998 if they hadn't given away on free TV the biggest money match the company had in Hogan/Goldberg. They could have started the slow build to that match the night in July that the match actually took place. They could have at least dragged it out until Halloween Havoc, if not Starrcade '98.

[The Tino Standard 0]

The NWO angle had a few good months before it got really stale, I can say that from watching the old Nitros on 24/7. By early 1997 it was already stale as hell compared to the WWF's crazy new direction. Bischoff put all his eggs in that Starrcade 1997 basket. Most of 1997 was filler to get to that show. When you're a booker and you do that then you better deliver big on that show, and he certainly did not.

 

I've kinda wondered how they would've booked the end of Starrcade had the whole Montreal thing not gone down. Bret Hart was a goner from WWE after Survivor Series, regardless of how his match with Shawn Michaels plays out, but let's say things between Hart and the WWE end amicably. This changes a number of things:

 

1. WCW likely never gets the idea for the false finish in the Hogan-Sting match with the 'fast' count.

2. There isn't nearly the sense of urgency to rush Bret Hart onto WCW TV, forcing him into the Hogan-Sting match where he didn't really fit and wasn't needed.

 

They probably still would have royally screwed up Hart's run with the company, but the booking for the Starrcade main event absolutely would've been different. And there's pretty much no possible way they could've booked a Sting victory any worse in that situation... right?

[johnson316cane 0]

The NWO angle had a few good months before it got really stale, I can say that from watching the old Nitros on 24/7. By early 1997 it was already stale as hell compared to the WWF's crazy new direction. Bischoff put all his eggs in that Starrcade 1997 basket. Most of 1997 was filler to get to that show. When you're a booker and you do that then you better deliver big on that show, and he certainly did not.

 

I've kinda wondered how they would've booked the end of Starrcade had the whole Montreal thing not gone down. Bret Hart was a goner from WWE after Survivor Series, regardless of how his match with Shawn Michaels plays out, but let's say things between Hart and the WWE end amicably. This changes a number of things:

1. WCW likely never gets the idea for the false finish in the Hogan-Sting match with the 'fast' count.

2. There isn't nearly the sense of urgency to rush Bret Hart onto WCW TV, forcing him into the Hogan-Sting match where he didn't really fit and wasn't needed.

 

They probably still would have royally screwed up Hart's run with the company, but the booking for the Starrcade main event absolutely would've been different. And there's pretty much no possible way they could've booked a Sting victory any worse in that situation... right?

 

Totally agree with that point. I think they would’ve gone with the scenario that everyone wanted to see which was Sting destroying Hogan. Then again, it was WCW so who knows. Also, if that match goes differently and Sting does indeed dominate Hogan and controls the belt for a while, what would that have done to Goldberg’s big push in hindsight? Does Sting take Hogan’s place in that match in the Georgia Dome against Goldberg or does Goldberg’s push to the belt get delayed while Sting fights off the nWo throughout the year?

 

[FroGG_NeaL 0]

They could have had Sting go over huge at Starcade, and keep battling the nWo throughout the year while Goldberg builds his streak.

 

Then have Sting, Goldberg, DDP, with Bret Hart coming in to finish out the team to go against the nWo in Wargames.

 

WCW goes over, then Sting vs. Goldberg at the next Starcade.

[LividLiquid 0]

They could have had Sting go over huge at Starcade, and keep battling the nWo throughout the year while Goldberg builds his streak.

 

Then have Sting, Goldberg, DDP, with Bret Hart coming in to finish out the team to go against the nWo in Wargames.

 

WCW goes over, then Sting vs. Goldberg at the next Starcade.

The who would Hogan face? Because things were all about him. Now in reality, he was off pretending to run for president so the fingerpoke of doom could take place, which I still insist could have been great if done properly.

[tobin 0]

They could have had Sting go over huge at Starcade, and keep battling the nWo throughout the year while Goldberg builds his streak.

 

Then have Sting, Goldberg, DDP, with Bret Hart coming in to finish out the team to go against the nWo in Wargames.

 

WCW goes over, then Sting vs. Goldberg at the next Starcade.

The who would Hogan face? Because things were all about him. Now in reality, he was off pretending to run for president so the fingerpoke of doom could take place, which I still insist could have been great if done properly.

 

Sting-Goldberg and Hogan-Hart could have been a tremendous double main event for Starrcade 1998. In an ideal world that would have been the end of Hollywood Hogan as a full-time act, and then we could have just had occasional nostalgia appearances and matches from red and yellow Hulk Hogan.

 

[cabbageboy 0]

There were so many places where WCW could have drawn money, and several were mentioned right in this thread. Bret/Hogan was a political nightmare though, I don't know how they would have booked it.

 

Glad someone else shares me views regarding the Fingerpoke angle. It was a goofy way to reunite the NWO and get the belt back on Hogan, but it could have worked considering what it had set up: Goldberg ripped off, now fighting tremendous odds, has to go through the NWO guys and get to Hogan. The problem is that WCW went too far with the Flair/Hogan angle. For this angle to work, Flair needed to be beaten down yet again by the NWO and not get the title, and certainly not do the idiotic double turn with Hogan. It was almost like they disregarded Goldberg in order to push a 50 year old Flair, which is a curious decision. Then later they disregarded Goldberg to push a heel turned DDP, which was even odder.

[Garbageman 0]

I seem to recall back in early 99, there were rumours of WCW prime time specials on NBC. The first one would go head to head with the WWF's St. Valentines Day Massacre PPV, and the rationale for giving Hogan back the title was so he could have the rematch with Goldberg on that event.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

No, no, no...the finger poke was freaking terrible. Even the biggest WCW marks at the time hated it. It made no sense...why would a main eventer like Kevin Nash want to give up the World Title to Hulk Hogan? It just made no sense. Trying to say this angle had potential is just fantasy booking revisionist non-sense.

[The Buzz 0]

Hell, WCW gave away two big money matches for free in 98. Sting vs Goldberg and Golberg vs Hogan were both on editions of Nitro in 98.

[PILLS! PILLS! PILLS! 0]

No, no, no...the finger poke was freaking terrible. Even the biggest WCW marks at the time hated it. It made no sense...why would a main eventer like Kevin Nash want to give up the World Title to Hulk Hogan? It just made no sense. Trying to say this angle had potential is just fantasy booking revisionist non-sense.

 

Thank you!

[cabbageboy 0]

To clarify my position on the Fingerpoke....of course it was terrible. I was incredibly pissed off when it happened. In fact I recall reading on Scoops weeks before Starrcade 98 that they might do such an angle and dismissed it, feeling no one would be that stupid.

 

I'm just saying that they could have minimized the damage done. As in Nash's main event career would be over, but they could at least go with Goldberg trying to challenge the NWO to get to Hogan. That aspect was a decent idea, they just tried to get to that point in the worst way imaginable.

[CubbyBr 0]

There were so many places where WCW could have drawn money, and several were mentioned right in this thread. Bret/Hogan was a political nightmare though, I don't know how they would have booked it.

 

Hollywood Hogan vs. Bret Hart I - Hart goes over a heel Hogan sending Hollywood into a long hiatus.

 

Hogan vs. Hart II - Hart eventually turns heel, starts bragging about how he ran Hogan out of the company, etc, etc. Hogan eventually comes back in the red and yellow and gets his victory back.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

That reminds me, I would love for someone at WWE to recover the supposed photos of Hart and Hogan that were taken to build to their match in WWF that never happened. Those would be surreal to see, even today.

[NoCalMike 0]

The nWo worked initially because marks were on the cusp of actually believing Hall & Nash were WWF guys invading WCW. And then Hall & Nash did enough smarky things to entertain smarks.

 

I just listened to the Scott Hall shoot and apparently Sting was originally supposed to be the 3rd member, but since Hogan had creative control, he decided to gravy train the nWo angle and become the third member.

 

nWo worked best when they were looked at as outsiders invading. They lost pretty much all luster when it seemed at one point half the WCW roster was in one of the nWo groups.

[HollywoodSpikeJenkins 0]

I never understood why they brought in DiBiase to join the NWO. He was like, the fourth or fifth member! TED DIBIASE!

[Dobbs 3K 0]

I never understood why they brought in DiBiase to join the NWO. He was like, the fourth or fifth member! TED DIBIASE!

 

I think that was just to give a kayfabe explanation of how the nWo was getting their money to recruit new members, more than anything. Even though they couldn't call him "The Million Dollar Man", they were hinting that he was bank rolling the operation.

[King Kamala 0]

I think we can all agree that the nWo started off great in the first three or four months of the angle and then slowly and surely went downhill and basically became a joke by the time of the Wolfpac Vs Hollywood angle.

 

Was there ever a formal ending to the nWo angle? I remember Wolfpac and Hollywood reunited in January '99 after The Fingerpoke of Doom and it seemed like the nWo was going to remain the top heel group but then it just sputtered out to the point where Stevie Ray and Vincent were fighting for leadership three or four months later.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

No, there was no definitive blow off to the group at all, which is pretty lame in retrospect.

[BruteSquad_BRODY 0]

Dibiase fit "Billionaire Ted" marvelously~!

[BruteSquad_BRODY 0]

No, no, no...the finger poke was freaking terrible. Even the biggest WCW marks at the time hated it. It made no sense...why would a main eventer like Kevin Nash want to give up the World Title to Hulk Hogan? It just made no sense. Trying to say this angle had potential is just fantasy booking revisionist non-sense.

 

Nash wanted to unite the 2 groups and made the sacrifice for the greater good.... keep your friends close and your enemies closer

[johnson316cane 0]

I never understood why they brought in DiBiase to join the NWO. He was like, the fourth or fifth member! TED DIBIASE!

 

I think that was just to give a kayfabe explanation of how the nWo was getting their money to recruit new members, more than anything. Even though they couldn't call him "The Million Dollar Man", they were hinting that he was bank rolling the operation.

 

Also, wasn’t he supposed to be DDP’s mysterious benefactor; giving DDP money to entice him to join the nWo?

 

[PILLS! PILLS! PILLS! 0]

I think we can all agree that the nWo started off great in the first three or four months of the angle and then slowly and surely went downhill and basically became a joke by the time of the Wolfpac Vs Hollywood angle.

 

I think that it was pretty good for the first two years. I even liked the schism between Hollywood and Wolfpac, though having guys like Sting and Luger joining up was kinda dumb, in my opinion. And there definitely should have been a blowoff sometime in late '98. Instead WCW just let it atrophy to the point where it would never recover as a compelling commodity again.

[cabbageboy 0]

Hogan's injury in April 1999 was a problem for the NWO. The group never really recovered from it and a bunch of others just sputtered around doing nothing.