King Kamala

Quick everybody, let's start a CTDWAT and give one word responses to the TSM Town Hall questions!

The local UHF station/UPN affliate used to air a Three Stooges marathon every New Year's Eve back when I was a lad. Every year, we'd order Chinese food and watch that marathon for hours until the countdown and then we'd flip back after the countdown. I wish they still had that. Fuck a bunch of Dick Clark. I think Moe was my favorite. I'm not sure he was ever the funniest but he was the glue of the group. The same reason Moe is my favorite Stooge is the same reason Dan Aykroyd and Phil Hartman are my all-time favorite SNL castmembers.

You know I don't hate the new ECW. There I said it. Maybe it's because I never felt much of an attachment to the original ECW, here in the boondocks we didn't get it until it came on TNN and by then, the end was already in sight. Don't get me wrong, I like ECW and really should see some more of it but I don't hold any great affection for it and I wasn't nearly as upset by its demise as I was with WCW's. WWECW (lawlz) is what it is. A solid enough B show. It's not appointment television for me but I always know there'll be a good TV match or two when I do tune in. Actually, that kind of describes ECW on TNN as well... I think the biggest mistake with the new ECW was calling it ECW, by any other name, I think the IWC's opinion of it would be generally favorable. I mean does anybody really think CM Punk would be where he is today if he had started on RAW or Smackdown? He'd probably be paired in a comedy tag team with Funaki or something. And while the treatment of the originals has been shoddy at best, I commend them for putting guys like Tommy Dreamer and Stevie Richards on television on a regular basis. Anyways, onto the questions... 1. Would things had gone differently for the brand -- i.e. would the brand look different altogether today -- had RVD and Sabu not been pulled over for drugs, with Van Dam having to give up both Heavyweight Championships only a few days later? I think the federation would have had a definitive #1 guy in RVD. RVD was one of the only guys on the early WWECW roster who could credibly main event on RAW or Smackdown! Heck, he's probably one of the only guys in the brand's short history who could make that claim. RVD's departure definitely hurt the show and basically made it a C show until the SD/ECW brand exchange bumped it up to a weak B show. So in summary, I think the difference would have been more starpower. The ECW World title may have felt like a World title rather than a secondary one. 2. Do you feel making an established WWE star in The Big Show the unstoppable heel ECW Champion helped or hindered the brand in its developing months? I think it helped it. Who exactly did they have for heels from the ECW original roster? And even if they did have a former big ECW heel, it would take time to build them up for the WWE fan who doesn't remember ECW (and there are more than you would think). I don't think Big Show was a good permanent solution but as a temporary one, he was servicable. 3. Would adding a secondary singles title and tag titles make the brand more legitimate in your eyes? Would it help you place ECW on the same level as Raw or Smackdown? I think it would definitely help the brand. But I don't think it'd put them on the level of the other two brands. The problem with ECW, is there are too many storylines with seemingly nothing at stake. I think the Mike Knox-Stevie Richards feud might have meant a half shit if there was a TV title at stake or something. 4. Do you think young wrestlers like John Morrison, CM Punk, and Elijah Burke would be more prevalent or less prevalent in the WWE if only Raw and Smackdown existed? Would they even still be in the federation at all?Less prevelant to an extent for all of them.Morrison would probably be a mid-carder if ECW never existed. Sometimes shifting up to the upper midcard and sometimes shifting down to the lower midcard. CM Punk would probably be suffer the same fate as London and Kendrick. I'm sure he'd still be on the roster but he wouldn't have been in any Money in The Bank matches let alone have won one. Burke would probably be a JTTS or released by now if there wasn't an ECW. 5. Has this reincarnation of ECW ultimately sullied the legacy of the ECW of the 1990s in your mind? Nah, the original ECW's legacy was long cemented by the time Vince stuck his greasy paws on it.

They never had milkmen in Canada? They were fairly common in the States around forty or fifty years ago (so my elders tell me)

What he said. His persona is getting very played out but he did some very good work on SNL and Anchorman will forever be a comedy classic in my book. And Stranger For The Fiction showed he can do more subtle, somewhat dramatic roles very well.

1. Would you say this is one of the worst matches in WWF history?In pro wrestling history? There's really no way to tell what is the worst pro wrestling match in history given the hundreds of shitty obscure indy and regional promotions but even so, I doubt it was the worst match in history. In WWF history? It's certainly Top 10 but at the same time, The Undertaker has had comparably bad matches with Gonzalez and other assorted hosses. 2. In a similar vein, where would you rank Giant Gonzalez among the worst pro wrestlers of all time? Again like the first one I can't really say but he's certainly the worst I've ever seen. I'm not sure if I've ever seen him pull off an actual wrestling move other than a rather poorly done chokeslam on some 200 pound jobbers. Just terrible. The best I can say about him at least he had different facial expressions unlike Khali even if only had three (awkward smiling as a babyface, the vaguely menacing look he had, and the look he had where he was selling where he sorta looked like he was being sodomized) 3. In the past decade, do you think The Undertaker has dramatically improved or do you think he was just hindered in the early to mid 90s by a string of bad opponents? Both, but probably moreso the latter than the former. Like King said, the Undertaker is still capable of an absolutely shitty match given the wrong opponent. In his first five or so years in the WWF, he was given almost nothing but the wrong opponents. The zombie gimmick as many stated certainly didn't help. But 'Taker was always capable of decent matches. Heck, he had a surprisingly good match with Luger at a WCW PPV as Mean Mark Calloway before his WWF days. I will say though that since MMA started having an influence on his style in '02ish, his workrates has kicked up a notch.

Yeah, at best, I'd probably register as a 2 out of 10 on the freak scale. So fuck you Milky! And I hope I never have to type the words freak scale again.

No, this match was from before Russo's return so there's no worked shooting here. But Scott Steiner does loudly yell "fuck you" at Hogan. That alone makes it worth watching that YouTube clip.

Ah but they did face off! The Nitro after Great American Bash '00. The match also featured a nonsensical Kidman face turn (who was heel guest refeering and had faced Hogan the night before tried to take a spear for Hogan from the interfering Goldberg) and a foreshadowing of future events (G.I. Bro made the save for Hogan from the heels). It's depressing that I remember all of that. I tried to find said match on YouTube but the best I could do was a Hulk Hogan and Sid Vs Scott Steiner and Jeff Jarrett match featuring hilarious Scott Steiner antics and another SHOCKING! turn.

Nah, I don't agree with that at all. Taker's matches with Khali are better than his matches with Gonzalez. Saying that is kind of like saying I'd rather have my chest waxed than my balls though. But honestly, for what it was, the Last Man Standing match between 'Taker and Khali on Smackdown! a couple years back wasn't all that bad for what it was.

Quick question; can someone explain why they moved the 24/7 subfolder to WWE? IMO, It really makes no sense that it's there instead of General Wrestling.

Welcome to the first edition of Behind The Match:Old School. Today, we'll be looking back at one of the worst matches on one of the worst WWF shows of all time. We're talking about The Undertaker Vs Giant Gonzalez from WrestleMania IX. The story behind this match begins at The 1993 Royal Rumble when Giant Gonzalez made his "surprise" debut attacking The Undertaker and eliminating The Undertaker. IIRC, Giant Gonzalez was brought in by Harvey Whippleman as revenge for 'Taker squashing Kamala at SummerSlam '92 and Survivor Series '92 (Remembering that makes me glad we never saw a Gonzalez-Kamala bout *shudders*).. Though they had a string of rematches, their match on wrestling's biggest stage is considered by most to be their worst and possibly one of the worst matches in WWF history. After their feud ended, The Undertaker was saddled with a string of lame opponents (Yokozuna, Fake Taker, Yoko again, King Kong Bundy, Kama, Mabel) that threatened to replace Gonzalez as the worst opponent of Taker's career. Luckily for Taker, the streak ended when Mankind arrived in the WWF and 'Taker enjoyed a career renaissance. Strangely enough, 'Taker has remained in the upper-echelon of the WWF ever since. Meanwhile, Gonzalez went on to do a forgettable face turn and have an even more forgettable aborted feud with Whippleman's new protege Adam Bomb. Shortly after, Giant Gonzalez retired to his native Argentina where he lives today, allegedly bound to a wheelchair. For those who haven't had the distinct pleasure of seeing it, here's the match; Part One Part Two Some Questions to Consider 1. Would you say this is one of the worst matches in WWF history?In pro wrestling history? 2. In a similar vein, where would you rank Giant Gonzalez among the worst pro wrestlers of all time? 3. In the past decade, do you think The Undertaker has dramatically improved or do you think he was just hindered in the early to mid 90s by a string of bad opponents?

That has to be a huge disapointment then again were they really expecting a lot of people to flock to a 1930s screwball comedy throwback?

I think the number of wrestling fans who also watch MMA is often overestimated. I don't know I always just thought Shamrock had that intangible "It" factor. This is verring off topic a bit but speaking of late 90s guys, whatever happened to the rumors swirling around about D Lo Brown returning to The 'E? I'd enjoy seeing him make a comeback even if he was cannon fodder like Val. For some reason, I think he'd make a great addition to the ECW/Smackdown roster

That's true. You know I think if we're going by quasi mainstream recognition and if we're counting non-wrestlers (Hell, I counted Vince) then Mean Gene might be a legend. He's notable enough to have been reference on MST3K and gotten a cameo in Repossessed!

Call me a sucker for nostalgia but I'd enjoy seeing a Ken Shamrock comeback in a few years, provided he isn't too banged up (career wise and injury wise) from all of the recent asskickings he's taken in MMA.

Well he teamed with Booker T and Nash at Backlash '03. But if you're asking if they ever faced each other, I don't know but I doubt it. They always seemed to be either on different brands or both faces during the time they were both in WWE.

IIRC, those two never really merged, they formed an unsuccessful alliance to end Hulkamania and then feuded with each other after Hulk went on one of his six month vacations. This thread has not only managed to bring up bad memories of '99 WWF but late '95/early '96 WCW, thanks assholes!

I'm trying to come up with a looks like Test failed the sobreity test joke without sounding lame but I really can't.

You know what? I'm not going to lecture Exslade anymore. Besides I'm not entirely qualified to seeing how I liked Pootie Tang.

I don't think it was bad as you do but it was a real disappointment outside of The Walkens (and even that went too long).

Ripper=Rodney Mack?

I'll put in my two cents here seeing how I indirectly helped start this topic. IMO, with any sport there are icons and legends. Legends are well regarded by the sports fans and recognized by even the most casual fans. Icons are known by virtually everyone regardless of whether they watch the sport or not. Again I'd say the icons of the sport are Hogan, Austin, The Rock, Vince, and Flair is borderline. There are very few Icons but there are a dozen or so perhaps even twenty legends.

Exslade- I hope one day you'll learn that life is too short for bad movies or just going to the movies for the sake of going to the movies.

In a similar vein, whatever happened to The Rick?