Promoter

Sorry, didn't see the thread. I know it's not cancelled YET, but isn't the contract up next year?

I would just like to know how the wwe "made stars" in the first place in regards to not enough room. They have the same amount of hours as they always had during the attitude era and they found ways to make stiffs like Godfather an interesting character to draw. Anyways, it could just be a power play on Vince for shopping raw around. What should happen is all of those crappy B-Shows should be taken off the damn air. That would force Vince to use his roster better in exploiting the "lesser talent" instead of just throwing them on the weekend shows. If anything keep Heat something like Experience(without the repeats) since they multi-task the show for ppv anyways.

Well, JBL is quickly approaching one of the longest title reigns in the last decade, so there's the silver lining for Eddie

WM 15 got 800,000 buys, and WM X-7 got 950,000. The buy rate for WM 15 was 2.32, while it was 2.18 for WM X-7. While the number was higher for WM 15, WM X-7 was the one that got more buys. It's best year was 2000-2001. Points taken. Are those industry numbers or wwe numbers because I can clearly remember Vince Mcmahon saying in SI in 1991 that WM 4 had over 900,000 buys. Of course, he could have just been talking crap trying to sell WM 7(Monsoon kept on saying that it was the most watched Mania although it was impossible to know during THE BROADCAST and perhaps tried to save face moving from LA Coliseum and not getting the promoted "over 100,000"). I agree about 2000-2001 creatively, but financially is it so(especially 2001)?

Point taken, but it could also be that Eddie got pissed off at the whole situation on how his reign was handled as well. It doesn't mean he had a nervous breakdown and whatnot. Frustated maybe? I know I sure as hell would be.

I know I stated that in my first sentence. What I'm saying is create tension between the brands somehow and not give away all the interpromotional matches. In other words have the general managers battling for something like Vince and Eric were in the 90's with Vince Mcmahon being the central figure. Make things seem more like anything can happen. An example would have been raw vs. smackdown battling for rumble spots on house shows. Another example would be WM 21 having a best of series where the winning brand gets the first pick in the draft. Use the strengths that the wwe uses well and put it into both brands instead of deliberately weakening one to strengthen the other for any reason(which has been done imo for contract renewal and whatnot). I'm saying that smackdown getting cancelled should be embarassing to Vince and would make him want to improve the brand split. I'm sure they would get picked up on another channel, but it still doesn't look good that smackdown is rumoured to get cancelled business wise in the televsion industry(hard sell for 24/7 channel). It might be the kick in the ass he needs.

Funny, I seem to remember the buy-rate for WM 15 being a lot higher than WM 17 and it's not like it's that big of a difference in terms of availability/households when comparing to other generations. The ppv audience couldn't have expanded that much within 2 years such as WM 3's buy-rate which was whopping, but the availability was not the same(the argument is translating that buy-rate would have Hogan/Andre drawing over 1 million around WM 15-17). WM III got over 400,000 buys and it was only the 4th ppv to hit the air in wwf history at the time crushing the buy-rate of WM II, Survivor Series, and Wrestling Classic. This does not include the closed circuit television in arenas across the States. In terms of money it's also arguable because the price of everything goes up. Anyways, this was about comparing WM 15 and WM 17 as the peak of the attitude era. Wrestling was HOTTER in 1999 than it was in 2001 as the company added another A show in smackdown on UPN. The company made its most money in that year. They could have easily made that amount of money with WM 15 if they had put it in a large venue. I tend to see WM 17 as the closing show to the attitude era although the numbers presented if true don't lie(but the ratings were sagging around the time AND the show had the boost of the raw/nitro simulcast and possible wcw vs. wwf aura behind it). It just adds more to my belief that WM 17 was the finale of that era and not the peak.

I know that's what I mean. All this Eddie having a break-down and couldn't handle it at the top sounds like wwe propaganda to me. I mean I think the man has overcome much more serious things in his life and to lose his mind over being a champion sounds pretty strange.

It won't be healthy for the wwe to rejoin right now. We know the writers are lazy and will blow through all of the future blockbuster matches within a year or two. Look how they have rushed Cena and Orton. On the other hand I also do not buy the idea that the split allowed guys like Benoit and Guerrero to get to the top. Guerrero especially was getting very strong heat before they shoestrung the wwe title on the guy out of nowhere. The problem is creative and a thin roster on both brands. I also agree that the format has to change. Now this is not saying that they haven't done some minor changes even in the storytelling because they have with stuff like the Rumble winner getting the chance to choose which champion he wants to face in the main event of Mania. The big problem is that if they want the mainstream back they need to look like a new show with new life. Can an average Joe off the street really tell what the difference between raw and smackdown today compared to 5 years ago with the exception that they are two different rosters(even then some may say it's all the same)? The business was in the same situation in 1993-1994, but little changes started to happen with things like Nitro and by 1996-1997 Bischoff and company had a format that was completely crushing Vince's. Vince had to change his format. The format is tired again. They got a few things they can really turn things up with like the raw and smackdown interaction at the Rumble. They need to have both shows trying to outdo each other or something. There doesn't seem to be anything at stake unlike the 90's. I like the idea of incorporating the house shows into things. That is something new and different, yet they won't do it because of laziness. It will take a lot more work. They did do it in the 80's somewhat as storylines like Orton/Muraco's break-up were taped at house shows and showed in local markets and then it built up the blow-off on superstars or challenge. It's laziness now and the easy way out of trying to do things with hollywood writing. Look how they half-assed the rumble qualification matches on the house show circuit(not to mention the confusion). Another problem it encountered was the thin rosters. I don't know, but smackdown being cancelled might be the kick in the ass Vince needs. Maybe UPN heard the rumours that Vince turned smackdown into the grooming brand for raw. Hell, I read once that Vince does favour raw and would weaken smackdown in spite of it. If you were a tv company president and the talk was that Vince was short-changing you on a major timeslot what would you do? Take into account that the commercial slots get lower buys due to the nature of the business in tv land. Vince should get his weekend shows cancelled as well for laziness as well with all the damn repeats(adding to the over-esxposure of the same matches week in and week out that the split was supposedly created to prevent). The company's greed in the ppv market has also made the shows less anticipated for tv and the ppv schedule. I like the idea of seasons and I think what the wwe can do is create some kind of format where raw and smackdown are competing with each other and can interact with each other without throwing away all the potential matches on a yearly basis. Maybe the rotation of the champions and the general managers trying to keep them is a start. There needs to be some kind of bouncing back and forth without ruining the illusion of two leagues. It's obvious the wwe can't run each brand with its own identity without sucking dry the other brand. They might as well do what they do best on both brands, but have the brands compete with a central figure(such as Vince) that they answer to. Anyways, maybe all these rumours about the future of raw and smackdown will get Vince into kick-ass mode again. I mean he is about due for something great again isn't he? It's been what.....4-5 years?

I haven't completely stopped watching. I catch raw, but smackdown I catch when I catch. I think the poster that said he was fed up of getting burned is in my zone. I use to tape and watch like crazy until perhaps around King of Ring 2000. Seriously, I started to see the signs that things were going to crash, but I kept hope because 1999 was really unwatchable at times and they turned things around in 2000. This is what has caused my fanaticism for wrestling go down drastically.... Austin's heel turn had me believing he would one up Hogan's heel turn. It didn't. It kind of sucked actually except with some shining moments. Before that was the stupidness of Austin going over the edge "killing" Triple H. Again, I was hoping the heel turn would re-invigorate Austin and the company. WCW Invasion that followed. I'll just save space by not going over that debacle. Jericho being booked like a clown and the unification match being a huge letdown from years and years of fans wanting the dream match(I even hated the fact they kept saying undisputed champion). The nWo failure and ruining Hogan's comeback a month after WM 18. The whole damn split storyline....and so on and so on. It's just been a damn snowball effect with glimpses of hope dashed. I just watch out of habit now, but this constant repeat of the same damn matches on raw isn't helping.

Strange, I thought it was Vince just liking the fact that Bradshaw was gaining cheap heat in the media. A lot of the post is true, but Vince favours Bradshaw its rumoured because he reminds him of a 70's wrestler. It also doesn't hurt that he is kind of playing a wrestler Vince Mcmahon would be in the ring. Add to that that Bradshaw is most likely getting Brock's intended push as I read stuff that Brock was going to be put back into the title chase after feuding with Taker and win back his title. The signs are kind of there as Bradshaw has taken up Brock's "champion of champions" schtick(Brock was saying greatest champion of them all). If the wwe was really serious about Eddie as champion he would not have been put into midcard matches as champion against the likes of the Bashams for crying out loud. Eddie supposedly wasn't going to be transitional according to Meltzer, but how many real face champions win a major title on a minor ppv and reign long especially before WM? Eddie's reign was doomed once Brock left because most likely Eddie was going to look like gold as champion and Brock would return back to the top beating him. Bradshaw basically has Brock's push imo. They probably jettisoned the title on Bradshaw in hopes of creating shock on the minor ppv.

WM III is of mythic proportions for many reasons(Piper's real last "special match", the culmination of the Hart Foundation/Bulldogs feud*Savage/Steamboat). Even the debate about the crowd number is now folklore. Hogan and Andre was just the icing on the cake. In actual truth the biggest match since Hogan/Andre was the rematch on NBC. Rock/Austin was the closest thing since then and didn't Vince have promos about records being broken for WM 17 at the WM 16 ppv? Maybe it's true that Vince doesn't want to break the myth because that was the best time probably to do it. Actually, I think WM 15 was the REAL peak where Rock and Austin really had a divided audience and it was the "raging climax" of the biggest feud of the attitude era(Vince vs. Austin). Doesn't that ppv also have the record buy-rate?

I think we might see Vince and his family Aren't they the stars now as Vince said a few years back I guess that would be Z celebrities.

Well, we'll see what "blockbusters" Vince's company will create and then we'll see about material. I mean I'm sure we won't get anything like Rock being killed in a semi or Triple H screwing Kane's dead girlfriend One thing's for sure......Rock was right not to choose Vince Mcmahon's movies for his career I can't wait for John Cena's The Marine

I guess my videotaping and copying in the 80's has its advantages. I wish Vince would release stuff like the Rockers winning the wwf tag titles from Hart Foundation on snme. I actually hate seeing the wwf of old referred to as wwe. It just doesn't sound right.

Well, things like wrestlers fighting over their girlfriends instead of the wwe title on smackdown's main event storyline is pretty lame. I agree they need more surprises and less manufactured crap. During the monday night war, the above mentioned storyline would actually have some realism in it with the real life drama of the girlfriends of the wrestlers. As Flair always said during his "feud" with Vince...he takes one step forward and then takes two steps back. They will do something good and then do do something craptacular to make you forget the good. There was less of this during the war.

Don't forget about holding Vince up for money and wanting a Hogan schedule in 1991 when he did not prove himself as Hogan did as champion in 1990. Yep, I say him and Brock are in the same boat in those terms. Warrior's title reign wasn't all his fault imo, but the direction of the company in general. Brock was hindered by his title being split amongst other things.

I wonder if this DVD set will be as great as the History of WWE Championship and Bret Hart Ultimate Collection sets

You know that Bradshaw comment had me thinking!!!!! WrestleMania 21 Los Angeles California The Champion of Champion WWE CHAMPIONSHIP MATCH Bradsdhaw vs. "Hollywood" Hogan Storyline: Bradshaw bragging that he has never been pinned in a singles match in over a year and that he is the greatest of all-time. Hulk Hogan returns to proclaim he was the greatest. Winner: Bradshaw pins Hogan and everyone calls him the champion of champions *Bradshaw kissing the right ass in the wwe(Hogan and being Vince Mcmahon's clone in the ring) for this big moment I can see them REALLY doing this.

When I saw the title of the thread I immediately thought it was going to be about Rock/Hogan facing off against Hassan and Daviri(sp?)*although I got no clue if he can do anything worthwhile in the ring, but that hasn't stopped them before with the Mcmahons. IMO, that match can work storyline wise on many counts. The wwe would just be too dumb to the history to do it with their sitcom writers. Just have Hogan show up on raw one week to tell fans he will show up for the hall of fame for Mania and have Hassan attack him about being a "Real American" and representing "hollywood". The following week have The Rock show up in defense of Hogan due to their past and have Hassan go off on The Rock. You could even throw in Foley with their past. The problem comes with the jobbing, but they could get away with a cheap finish such as a DQ or countout. Hassan would still be made attacking Americana of Hulk Hogan. That is what's important for his character. The man will be a heat machine. As someone said Vince hasn't used Hogan properly as much as Hogan's business sense. I can see exactly why Hogan did not want to job to Brock Lesnar twice. I think Vince mis-used Hogan with Brock Lesnar. Hogan was just protecting Hulkamania at Madison Square Garden. I think Brock turning face against Hogan at Survivor Series in a passing of the torch kind of story would have got Brock to the super babyface position they wanted him in, but they gave the match away for free with little backstory on smackdown in the summer to build him up for The Rock(which Austin refused to do too). Anyways, we saw where Lesnar ended up and it was similar to Ultimate Warrior wasn't it?

Rock/Eddie could work with the right storyline. I would play it with Eddie as a heel, but that wouldn't last once Rock leaves. Boy the wwe has really screwed up here imo. I can't see anything remotely matching vintage Mania levels for the main event scene. Bradshaw really shouldn't lose the belt at this moment with his push(yuck), but he shouldn't be champion either. It's a crapshoot with him as I think Cena against JBL now will only hurt Cena in the Project Orton kind of way. They can pull it off, but not with their track record and Cena just being "there". Orton/HHH is DOA and because of that I think some fans may reject Batista if they don't be careful as raw this week the writers have started to change things with hitting us over the head with the tension. That was not there before. Now they are telling fans to choose Batista and that was Orton's downfall instead of letting it come naturally. I like Batista and all, but honestly how many people out in the masses won't think Triple H will eventually bitch him? This is their damn fault and what to do after Batista gets revenge on Trips if he does at all? Both title scenes look screwed and that is why I stated Edge/HBK for the title which could still happen. I liked the idea of HBK jumping ship to face off against Angle for the wwe title, but that just aint going to happen. HBK/Angle should definitely happen along with turning Orton heel against The Rock. Again, the natural thing to do with Orton is turn him on the fans who are rejecting him because he seems like a Rock clone. They got to stop all this manufactured crap people can see through. The world title scene is still okay, but smackdown's I don't got a damn clue how they can give something worthwhile where people will REALLY care afterwards. How is the wwe going to have both heel champions lose at Mania anyways? (sorry I forgot which company this was). I don't know I think having these two heel champions heading into Mania will suck them dry amongst the masses because they always seem to come out on top anyways.

Some good stuff here. They have done a good job with the Elimination Chamber match as it's the first time in a long time where people aren't up in arms about Trips regaining the title because he might not. Another scenario where this can lead is either putting the strap on Edge whom I hate or give it to Orton(whom is testing my damn nerves). Now hear me out. I think the boyhood dream idea being played again for Mania is a good idea. HBK heading in as champion defending against Edge has some oomph. It won't be any big seller, but it will help Edge and hopefully HBK will be in his making a star mode and crown Edge the champion at Mania. I mean a reversal where Edge gets his boyhood dream of winning the title at Mania(and they have the footage from WM 6) with fans throwing things at him would be hilarious and doing so against HBK who did it at WM 12 is a great story. Hell, they could even throw in a ladder and play off that WM history. They could also have HBK face off against Orton at the Rumble and win the title from interference from HHH which will increase the Orton/HHH heat hopefully since HBK is a hated foe of HHH, yet he still rather HBK be the champ than Orton. They could have Edge win the EC and go on to Mania to defend the title against HBK. I think leaving the title out of the Orton/HHH/Batista stuff will be better as all men cost each other the championship. However, we got the rumours of Orton going to smackdown as world champion and Cena coming to raw as wwe champion. If this is true how else can they build to this without having HHH regain the title with Orton taking it away from him? The question mark is the free tv match though where Orton went over Triple H. I think if it was Orton/HHH at Mania with Orton finally regaining the title it would have HHH winning on monday. They already gave away the babyface ending which is why I'm leaning towards Edge/HBK. Batista can't win the title because where would that go? Batista jobbing to Triple H at Mania? The possible reason why they want Orton switching to smackdown is to have him reign without any interruption from Trips. Things would be so much easier if Trips had the same kind of influence he did in like 1997 and 1998. Someone asked the question about Cena and Orton both winning titles at Mania and I think if the plan truly is for them to switch we might see Orton win the title on Sunday and they will have Cena crowned champion at Mania. I swear they are going to ruin Cena if that's the plan. You know the job would be coming. He will just be Benoit 2005, but this time he won't get away like Benoit did from the jobbing in 2004. Then again, when Batista turns if he turns what will happen to Trips' character? He will get new members for Evo?

I guess they feel they need a new Kane circa 1997. Maybe Kane asked to get out of the stupid storylines they put him into if he did the movie. Although that doesn't explain the Lita nonsense which ironically made him a face. Why not give faux Diesel 2 this time around and bring back Nash at WM 21 for the "money match". I'm sure 1990 Vince Mcmahon would love that

It's true that the creative team gives Cena some of this horrible material, but I also feel that he needs to work around it. Austin once said that today's guys wait for the staff to give them ideas instead of going home and thinking up stuff on their own. Who knows maybe Cena is coming up with stuff, but it's being nixed. Ever since they turned him face he has become more manufactured with finger rings(so 80's) and selling damn t-shirts. At least when Rock and Austin were being pimped to sell t-shirts they knew how to use it to advance their characters. Seriously, I can't believe Cena is coming up with some of these ideas like "Ruck Fules" that looks like a cheap black and white Austin carbon copy shirt. Another thing to consider is that maybe the wwe is telling him to wrestle the way he is. Remember the rumour that the staff told Heidenreich or was it Mordecai to not wrestle, but punch and kick because that's his character? Regardless, they have to do something with Cena before putting the big title on him or accept the reality of another Randy Orton disaster reign.

Ah, classic Vince! Still protects his property of "Stone Cold" jobbing in 27 seconds although he owns everything! Then again, he has "Hollywood" Hogan winning the title in 1984. Why not just use Hogan? Maybe he's trying to get the image of the heel Hogan into the history books to erase his popularity. Silly logic, but we are talking about wwe here