RavishingRickRudo

Have they been WWE events?

I can't recall Angle ever cutting a money promo. He certainly hasn't done any on the level of Austin or Foley. He has weird pacing and kinda talks funny and is way too expressive in his head movements. He has a tendancy to repeat words, especially names. There was one instance with Lesnar where in every sentence he said "Brock". "You know something, Brock? I am going to kick your ass Brock. At Wrestlemania Brock, it's going to be you and me Brock." There is one positive that hasn't been mentioned and that's Kurts pacing/timing, which is something that Shawn Michaels also excelled at. This is why people mistaken them for great wrestlers, because they work on and off of excitement at the expense of psychology, which makes you go "YEAH!! WOW!!! THAT WAS GREAT!!* ( Brian Alvarez), even though it doesn't play along with the story of the match. The Benoit/Angle match is a perfect example of it, but they do such an amazing job of getting the dead audience to respond and they do it systematically and build off of each heat spot that -though it lacks certain elements- it's still a great match, because it plays up those other elements better than most great matches. If you define the purpose of a wrestling match as something to get the fans cheering, then Kurt Angle does his job very well. The WWE works under this premise, and someone like Meltzer would say that since that's the objective of a WWE match, and if Kurt Angle is great at doing it, then Kurt Angle is a great wrestler. I don't agree with that. Being good at wrestling a bad, flawed, style doesn't cut it with me. I appreciate getting a crowd reaction through storytelling more than through spots; what Kurt, and by extension the WWE, does is the equivalent of poop jokes, boob shots, or footballs to the groin. The pop-up suplex, or in HBK's case the nip up, is an old rich man getting hit with a pie. There's some points in how they build to the spot and arrange it, but it's a spot nonetheless. Can we, like, frame this? Maybe make it the Smartmarks slogan?

Not to mention there really is no point to this. The Angle debate was in 03 when he was being voted for in the WON HOF. Maybe if he got into WHY people overrate him (and Shawn Michaels for that matter, I believe the same reason applies), then there'd be something new to discuss.

And a few comments: 1. Consider your audience: You don't need to write openings detailing Kurts history. We know it. Right off the bat, in the first 3 sentences, say what you're going to be talking about so we, the reader, don't have to go through a huge paragraph just to find out what the next few huge paragraphs are going to be about. You lose readers that way, so stop jerking off in your writing and get to the point. Your writing is a HHH promo. 2. You exaggerate. A lot. You use too many adjectives and fluff words. You don't get credibility as a writer by writing huge articles, you get credibility by being focused and conserving your words. You throw around "astounding" "great" "amazing" "wonderful" "exceptional" "unprecidented" in almost every sentence. So how are we to guage what is good and what is great and what is astounding when EVERYTHING is astounding? Don't bother responding word for word, I only have the interest in doing this once. These are suggestions, because I think your content was fine but your presentation was horrible. The questions are rhetorical. If it is well documented, then why are you going to go over it? This is a silly quote, because while he was one of the most recognized athletes coming in, I would question his passion for it since he has said it (pro wrestling) initially was a financial decision. Actually, the amateur background hurt wrestling-wise because he had to lose the instincts he developed. Amateur Wrestlers are trained never to get put on your back, so you can imagine how the transition must have been. In terms of training, determination, work-ethic, reputation etc. his amateur career was an asset. You have already said he was an amazing athlete and we know he is, so this quote has me rolling my eyes. If everything is obvious and has been said before, then why are you saying it? "He surely didn't dissapoint" Spelling aside, this is fluff. It took a few months before Angle started to get praised, and I wouldn't say that expectations were too high for him - he was being brought in as a heel. You can say "He achieved too much in his first year." and the point would have been the same. Right now, you are annoying me. None of these words are needed. How many times are you going to bring up his athleticism and mat work? For one, we already knew coming into this post that Angle was athletic. And if we didn't, we would have known by now. "disposed of his adversary's"??? Jesus Christ.. That's not a fact. Jumbo Tsuruta and Owen Hart have been heralded as great starters, and Benoit in the later-part of his first 5 years was amazing. Praising the guy for the quality of his matches and then below saying "Well, not really because here's what was wrong" is, again, wasteful writing. You. Have. No. Idea. What. You. Are. Talking. About. Do you know who Kyoshi Tamura is? Nobuhiko Takada? Angles "mat wrestling" isn't on par with those guys. Volk Han? All Kurt does is ride guys, THAT'S IT. Mat Wrestling is more than spinning around on top of someone. Lesnar utilized his "mat wrestling" more effectively than Kurt did. Watch some MMA, see how its "really done" - watch Sakuraba vs. Carlos Newton - and then compare it to what Kurt does. In one lengthy paragraph, you have made 5 points. "Kurt is really athletic", "Kurt's amateur wrestling made him a great mat wrestler", "Kurt Achieved alot" "Kurt put on great matches" "Kurt is overrated". What could have been said in 5 sentences was said in 15 (or 20, or 25...). Why 15? Because you've said 4 of these points over and over and over again. Why is this in here? You are telling the reader that you still aren't sure of anything. Why should they have confidence in what you write when you don't? "The positives regarding his ringwork are astounding" I mean fuck, dude, you need to stop this. You don't need this as a transition into the next part, and it doesn't work well with the first sentence. If you lead-in with "People have opened my eyes...", then you follow it up with what those things are. And let us judge whether or not it's "astounding". Your continual praise and exaggeration don't help you here; you sound like a fanboy. It is obvious, now, that you are trying to sound smart. We are all guilty of it, but you have to be the worst offender. And the worst part is what you are saying isn't smart at all - you are repeating yourself. It's very sloppy writing. You only need to say it once, if at all. I won't even get into the fact that Angle has injured more than one opponent in his career (most recently the tough enough kid... ok, I just did), but what does this mean? Stiffness, athleticism, tenacity, speed, power, "presense", credentials, athleticism. I see it as making Angle "real". But you will contradict this later-on, so why say it now? It doesn't serve a purpose. 1. Kurt Angle was a Freestyle wrestler. Not Greco Roman. 2. There is no such thing as a Greco Roman submission. There are locks and holds which are used to gain leverage, but the objective in wrestling is not to make the other guy submit. 3. There is nothing innovative about any of Kurt Angles moves. They've been done forever in Judo and Juijitsu. You really need to either learn more about wrestling or stop talking out of your ass. You have been getting caught way too much. *snip, I've gotten bored here and am starting to think this is an elaborate work on the board, because no one can be this bad unintentionally.* Are you JR? WWE-speak is bad. And this is your conclusion? We've been pondering that?

Hart's reasoning is that those moves always worked for him, so that's why he does them. As opposed to Ric Flair going to the top rope, where it has failed more than it worked.

I imagine the US government will donate more when the money can be used more effectively and pointedly. They may spend less in the recovery phase and more in the rebuilding phase. Or they are assuming private donations and assistance will be made or that The World's donation will be sufficient. I can see why an immediate huge donation would be impractical, so I won't condemn the USgov for it quite yet.

1) Stefan Leko vs. Ikuhisa Minowa Leko looked horrible against Ogawa, so unless that was a work I can't see this being any different. Minowa will take him down and pound him. Leko will give his back. Minowa, Rear Naked Choke, Rd1 2) Giant Silva vs. Choi Mu Bai They're trying to create a superstar with the CMB, they've gone so far as to create a Korean website. I see no reason why he doesn't take this. Hopefully this won't air on the PPV. Choi Mu Bai, Decision. 3) Ryan Gracie vs. Yoji Anjo Anjo is going to get destroyed. He took a really good beating from Tank Abbott a few years ago at UFC Japan, but Gracie does more than just pound. Unless Gracie gets injured in a freak accident, Ryan Gracie, Armbar, Rd1 4) Anderson Silva vs. Ryo Chonan That loss to Takase did a number on Silva. Horn, Newton, Steibling, Sakurai, Murray... an impressive list of names which should override that one loss, but I can't help but shake it. I need to see an impressive win from Silva to have some confidence in him. This is a toss up, Silva should win it by decision at least. If I had to choose, Silva via KO Rd 1. 5) Makoto Takimoto vs. Sentoryu Let's not dignify this, k? 6) Rulon Gardner vs. Hidehiko Yoshida Gardner has size and strength against Yoshida, but I don't really see any finishing skills on him. If Silva couldn't finish Yoshida, I don't see how Garnder can. Hunts size didn't stop Yoshida from tapping him out and I don't see Gardner being able to avoid them either. Yoshida, armbar, Rd1 7) Kevin Randleman vs. Mirko Cro Cop The punch was no fluke, but it was a once in a life time shot that will never happen again. If that makes sense. Randleman can still take Cro Cop down and has shown the power to KO him. But I will still go with Mirko. Cro Cop, KO, Rd 2. 8) Dan Henderson vs. Yuki Kondo This match will suck. Only because the last 2 Hendo matches which should have ruled sucked. Henderson, Decision. 9) Jens Pulver vs. Takanori Gomi Oh man. I don't want to jinx this match. Gomi, Decision. 10) Wanderlei Silva vs. Mark Hunt Shit, I would have put Leko vs. Silva, because this is a tough one for Wanderlei. Silva is prone to a good uppercut and Hunt can deliver one. This is not a good match. I can't believe I'm betting against Silva. Hunt, KO, Rd 1 11) Fedor vs. Nogueira Noguiera showed the right strategy vs. Fedor, but now Fedor knows that strategy and will have a counter for it. Their first match was one of my favourites, the second one was going great until the cut, this is one of 4 awesome matches on this card that could provide MOTYC's. I don't want to call this.

But the whole _point_ of a press conference is to be press-friendly.

Oh Jesus fucking Christ guys... ... Dark Age isn't coming?? *Rips up ticket*

Then there's Lita The Raw in Toronto show is actually well-placed. It's wedged inbetween the NYR fallout and the RR hype show. ... and am I to assume that you are all not going?

... So you're NOT going? There are many ways to trick security if you are "caught". "It's for my daughter", "I have a psychological attachment to it" "Here's a 20.." etc. OR would could go the more cost-effective and simpler route and just bring coat-hangers. Vince has wasted more money or worse things, btw.

Alright, who is going? Curry and I was talking about this, while watching the Rise and Fall of ECW DVD -specifically the Al Snow part-, and the idea came up of bringing toy babies to the show and throwing them in the ring when Snitsky is wrestling ala the ECW fans throwing in Head. Of course, it would be impossible to recreate the effect of the first one, but it's something to think about. We got about 3 weeks to formulate a plan

I actually don't, and haven't in the past 3 years. I've really been bullshitting this entire time, just because I love to bitch about the WWE so much but don't want to have to suffer through their shitty shows. I know for a FACT that 1/2 the people here don't watch it either, and the other half may very-well-be just figments of my imagination.

The WM X image is the entire (face) locker room coming out and putting Bret on their shoulders as a hero. Go back and read the rest of my posts, I covered everything you said above.

So what, would it have been better if he came in #28 and won it? It really wouldn't have meant any different to anything other than the live crowd in the arena. It's just not impressive when other people have done it. What's the difference between 60 minutes and 65 minutes? After a while it all just becomes "a long time". It's like Armstrong and the Tour De France. After the first 3 wins, him winning it really isn't exceptional or impressive, it becomes *expected*. Benoit going the distance was expected. Shawn Michaels may have won from #1, but that Rumble was only 30 mins. And technically Vince won from the start (well, #2), but for how long was he actually in the ring? Benoit wrestled from the beginning and won by eliminating the guy that 6 wrestlers working together couldn't get rid of. Until they get the #1 entrant to eliminate all 29 wrestlers, ain't nobody gonna be put over more strongly. You guys don't know wrestling if you constantly think these things are the pinnacle of being put over. Benoit eliminating show could have been done as entrant #28 as well, and would have had the same effect. QUOTE Man, I wouldn't have traded that moment for anything. I would have traded it for a Royal Rumble win over Brock for the WWE title. When all's said and done, people are gonna remember WM XX more than any of those meaningless Raws. His reign could have been so much more, but at least it happened at all. At the very least, I'd consider Benoit credible enough as a top tier guy to main event pay per views down the line when they need him. When all is said and done, Benoit will be an asterix.

RE Benoit's celebration: You should have been at Mania, it was all about Benoit. Yeah Eddie was there, but the whole end of the show was about Benoit finally reaching his goal. I saw the PPV, as did the majority of fans. What was presented on the show was a shared moment. You seem overly negative about Benoit's title win for some reason. I wanted better. I wanted something with meaning. Not just a pat on the head. Benoit deserved better. They had him go through everyone in the Rumble and he made the top guy (according to the WWE) in the company tap out in the final match on the "biggest show of all time". Its hard to do better than that. It's easy to do better than that. Make the guy the most important wrestler on the show.

uhhhh yeah I could: Benoit got a bunch of wins on TV and PPVs and headlined most RAWs. He didn't lose during that time period, and they didn't have him do stupid crap like hang out with Eugene. Afterwards they pushed him down the card and he was treated like an after thought. But as I said, for a short period of time, I thought they were booking him really well. Its not that hard to comprehend. Uuuh, you have to do better than that. I'll put the effort in completely shooting whatever you say down, when you put the effort in trying to say it. What wins? What position of the card were they? How many promos did Benoit get to cut? Was Benoit the most important guy -the central guy- on these shows? Was JR going on and on and on about Benoit when other guys were wrestling, like he does with HHH? What period of time are you talking about?

to RRR, you're dealing with a lot of opinion and personal perception when you make some of the statements you make. The fact is most people saw that match as *****, and nobody I know thinks of Benoit as "that other guy." Most people are dolts and don't know their ass from their elbow. That match wasn't close to *****, there have been better _this year_, and there have been MUCH better matches than that in the past as well. People who would give that match ***** are people who (i)Don't get what "*****" means, and (ii)Can't explain why they have the match "*****". Benoit _was_ the other guy. HHH and HBK faced each other at the Royal Rumble, Benoit got involved and complicated matters, HHH and HBK faced each other at Bad Blood (main eventing, btw). If Benoit _wasn't_ "the other guy", why didn't their feud end at Backlash, or Mania? Ask your friends that. I respect your opinions, but I don't necessarily think they're very accurate here. You may think of Benoit as "that other guy" but most fans don't. And yes, he did have nuclear heat. Watch any RAW where he walked out on the stage with the belt. Did he get the same pops as The Rock would have? Hogan? Hell, he didn't get the same reaction as HHH fer christ sake. I don't respect your opinion and THIS is why. The WMXX match was *****? Benoit was getting nuclear heat everytime he walked out after he wont the title? Why should I take anything you say seriously when you exaggerate things that you can't back up. Is there anything hotter than "nuclear heat"? Is there anything better than *****? Yet I can name a dozen matches better than the three way, and I can name dozen guys who have gotten a better crowd reception than Benoit. There have only been a few times Benoit ever got what would be considered "nuclear heat" and you know what? I'd say all of those times were before his run with the belt. I do completely agree with you on one thing, that his reign, after Backlash, didn't get the respect it deserved. Well that's good. Benoit had that month to have a good reign... which is still fucking ridiculous because he still had to feud with HHH and HBK and couldn't headline a PPV in his hometown on his own. How the fuck is that giving Benoit "respect"? The match was sold on being "The Rematch to their WMXX match", rather than "Benoits first defense" or "Benoits homecoming" or anything, you know, Benoit-centric. Really respectful. Involving Eugene, as much as I personally dislike the character, served to further endear Benoit to the fans, to show his human side, and it worked, but the degree to which they went to serve that end was absurd. How did it *work*? Do women now swoon at Benoit for being such a compassionate soul? Did he get "hotter than nuclear" heat after it? I just have a hard time believing Benoit would have gotten any better treatment on SD!, if anything he would have been the one to drop the belt to JBL. The crowd was hotter for Benoit in the match with Brock. The match with Brock was better than the WMXX match. The feud with Brock made sense. The title was the right one to go after. The history was there. The crowd was reacting to it. Benoit had Angle and Eddie as possible challengers to his title (for those saying Benoit/Angle was overdone, the only problem with Benoit/Angle was that they often were fighting with no reason, this was perfect because of Kurts RR03 win and tap out of Benoit, and Benoit was the champ this time) and a JBL match(es) would have been better than Kane matches. Besides, if Benoit didn't leave Smackdown, they wouldn't have had an empty spot that they felt needed to be filled, which is why they bumped up Bradshaw. You're asking for the sun, the moon and the stars here. I am/was asking for Benoit vs. Brock for the WWE title at the Royal Rumble. Benoit wins. They push Benoit as the top guy on the show and treat him like a superstar, like they should with every champion. I am asking for something good here, where I don't have to make giant compromises -like forgetting logic, or worse, lowering my expectations- to enjoy it. You don't know what the sun, the moon, and the stars are, if you think *that* is what it is. So now we add that to you not knowing what a ***** match is, and you not knowing what nuclear heat is. Benoit was never going to be the guy to carry the company, we all knew (or should have known) going in that this was simply a nice title reign to reward him for his career, nothing more nothing less, and if you couldn't see even as far back as the first hints towards Lesnar that that would be the case you were delusional and in severe denial of what company you were watching. How is making Benoit a lameduck champion a reward? The whole *point* of wanting a guy to be the champ is to see him BE the one they turn to to carry the company. In this fictional world of wrestling, THAT, is something that is "real" and is why being "the champ" has value to the guys in the back. When you carry the company, it means the company believes you are good enough, that the fans like you enough, that you are capable of being the main focus of every show. So it was an INSULT when the company gave Benoit the title and still made HHH the focus of the show. Because that was them saying "You can't carry the show. The fans don't like you enough. We don't think you are good enough". That's a nice reward? Would I like him to be the guy to carry the entire company? Sure, but why even waste time thinking about things that will never happen? Some things just aren't realistic given that we're discussing the WWE, and that is one of them.... How many times do you have to do "this"?

Let's not get high and bring MNW into this. But the Eddie Docu was really good. I don't think they mentioned Art Barr in it, so to that.

Could this be considered flame-baiting? Seriously. The Hassan vignettes were well done. I think they improved their website a lot. The McMahons haven't been on TV nearly as much as they were last year. The stuff with Orton/Benoit/HHH/Edge/Batista is pretty good. I like when they open up the field, rather than sticking with 2 guys. The Foley/Orton feud was really good. The Benoit DVD I loved. That was probably the best thing they did, really. They got New Japan footage, and spread out his career rather than focusing it all in the WWE. I haven't seen the ECW DVD, but from what I hear they did a good job on that as well. They're using their video library more, that's good.

The 6 hour show is definitely worth getting. I'd get it if I didn't already have most of em on tape or DVD. When all is said and done, the period of time that this show chronicles could be considered the UFC's prime, because they had an outstanding run of shows. In regards to KOTC, if you can find cheap MMA dvds, get em. Even if the shows all suck (which they won't), you, at the very least, get to see some guys who might be debuting on a card in the next year and you can have a reference point.

Well yeah, not to mention he'll then turn heel and face again in the same day. And he won't actually "turn" either, he'll just one day be a face or heel and the fans accept it.

He had a good match with Albert on Velocity before his JBL push began. Big Show being credible is hilarious. They have him squash the entire roster and you know what? I still don't see him as a killer.

Heavyweight Title Division: 1. Jumbo Tsuruta (1988) 2. Stan Hansen (1993) 3. Hulk Hogan (1989, or 1987) 4. Gary Albright (1995) 5. Mitsuharu Misawa (1994) 6. Randy Savage (1992) 7. Nobuhiko Takada (1993,94) Junior Title Division: 8. Jushin Lyger (1993) 9. Chris Benoit (1995) 10. Eddie Guerrero (1997) 11. Rey Mysterio (1997) 12. Shinjiro Ohtani (1996) 13. American Dragon (2004) 14. Kiyoshi Tamura (1996) Tag Title Division: 15/16. Steve Williams/Terry Gordy (1989) 17/18. Toshiaki Kawada/Akira Taue (1995) 19/20. Kenta Kobashi/Tsuyoshi Kikuchi (1993) (Of course, matches are not limited to their divisions. Benoit/Ohtani can be a team, Kawada can challenge Misawa, Tamura can face Takada)

And the Bashams need to adopt, AT LEAST, 2 of the stylish features below (one must be the 'staches). And JBL has to be increasingly anal about their appearances ("What did I tell you two? Huh? What? I said tie some goddamn rope around your waist and trim those goddamn shirts! What am I payin yall for if ya don't listen!?").