AboveAverage484 Posted October 10, 2003 Report Posted October 10, 2003 Hey, Cancer Marney. Shut the Fuck Up! SpiderPoet seems like a decent enough guy around the board, so get off his fucking nuts about something he believes in you facetious bitch. I think if I worked with you or went to school with you, you would have been bitch-slapped by me by now. States with most Civil War battles: 1. Virginia: 2,154 2. Tennessee: 1,462 3. Missouri: 1,162 4. Mississippi: 772 5. Arkansas: 771 I think I should make it a point to include a Civil War fact in all my posts.
MrRant Posted October 10, 2003 Report Posted October 10, 2003 ^^^ Post of the Day. And the first line is going in my sig.
Your Paragon of Virtue Posted October 10, 2003 Report Posted October 10, 2003 I was gonna say something, but decided not to. I'm still waiting for Marney to reply to what I said before. I will keep my hands clean of this one.
Jobber of the Week Posted October 10, 2003 Report Posted October 10, 2003 SpiderPoet seems like a decent enough guy around the board, so get off his fucking nuts about something he believes in you facetious bitch. I think if I worked with you or went to school with you, you would have been bitch-slapped by me by now. Wow, a Tough Man! Laying the throwdown makes you HARDCORE, buddy! You must be a high-ranking karate master or a strongman or something to talk so confident! Oh wait. It's the internet, so nevermind.
Firestarter Posted October 10, 2003 Report Posted October 10, 2003 The Christian thing is basically that I wouldn't get why you seem to show most hostility towards other Christians, and seem to argue against the existence of God when such a debate comes up. Because most other Christians denigrate my religion through association, by their stupidity, their intractability, and their dishonesty. And I don't argue against the existence of God because it can neither be proven nor disproven. I sometimes express my reasons for doubt but I have few firm convictions either way. Just a lot of questions. Einstein also said that: "The more I discover about the Universe, the more I feel that a higher power exists." He might've said God I don't remember, I'm just pointing out that he believes in something, whether it be the Christian version or not. "It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it." - Albert Einstein: The Human Side, ed H Dukas, B Hoffman 1954 The New Testament is pretty reliable though. I stand by this. If by "reliable" you mean a fairly decent moral guide for the most part, I agree. If by "reliable" you mean "historically accurate and independently corroborated," I do not.
Firestarter Posted October 10, 2003 Report Posted October 10, 2003 Hey, Cancer Marney. Shut the Fuck Up! ^^^ Post of the Day. And the first line is going in my sig. Someone once called Bob Barron a vulture, piling on the bandwagon to attack posters whenever it seemed safe to do so - ie, whenever someone else was already on the front line. It seems to me that that description is at least equally applicable to you. If you've developed a problem with me since the time you were drooling over my every word, I suggest you take it up with me yourself.
Your Paragon of Virtue Posted October 10, 2003 Report Posted October 10, 2003 The Christian thing is basically that I wouldn't get why you seem to show most hostility towards other Christians, and seem to argue against the existence of God when such a debate comes up. Because most other Christians denigrate my religion through association, by their stupidity, their intractability, and their dishonesty. And I don't argue against the existence of God because it can neither be proven nor disproven. I sometimes express my reasons for doubt but I have few firm convictions either way. Just a lot of questions. Einstein also said that: "The more I discover about the Universe, the more I feel that a higher power exists." He might've said God I don't remember, I'm just pointing out that he believes in something, whether it be the Christian version or not. "It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it." - Albert Einstein: The Human Side, ed H Dukas, B Hoffman 1954 The New Testament is pretty reliable though. I stand by this. If by "reliable" you mean a fairly decent moral guide for the most part, I agree. If by "reliable" you mean "historically accurate and independently corroborated," I do not. Fair enough about your views on Christianity. I stand corrected about Einstein. I think that there is more truth to the New Testament than most people give it credit for. They generally give blanket statements without knowing most of the facts, for instance the thought processes that went into it, the actual facts about how long it took to write, etc. I assumed that since you're a Christian, that you would at least put some faith in it. I also think that it's affirmation is helped by Roman Records and that Josephus character, at least I think that was his name.
Firestarter Posted October 10, 2003 Report Posted October 10, 2003 Hey, Cancer Marney. Shut the Fuck Up! No. SpiderPoet seems like a decent enough guy around the board, so get off his fucking nuts about something he believes in you facetious bitch. I'm nowhere near his "fucking nuts," and beliefs, however strong, are not immune to criticism. If he continues to make his beliefs his central argument against evolution I will continue to address his beliefs in detail and the shameful ignorance in which they have developed. (By the way, try not to use words you can't define. "Facetious" makes no sense in context.) I think if I worked with you or went to school with you, you would have been bitch-slapped by me by now. In which case you would be missing an arm by now. What was the point of all that? "Excuse me, I'd like to suck SpiderPoet's dick; could you please stop kicking his ignorant ass around the rhetorical block for a few minutes?" Next time, just ask politely and I'll let you indulge your whimsy.
MrRant Posted October 10, 2003 Report Posted October 10, 2003 He may not be as ignorant and you like to tell him he is . In the grand scheme of things you may turn out to be more ignorant then he is. Of course we would need Armageddon so that way we can really prove who is right. And I'm not dying so you two selfish fucks can see who have the biggest proverbial dick.
Firestarter Posted October 10, 2003 Report Posted October 10, 2003 I think that there is more truth to the New Testament than most people give it credit for. They generally give blanket statements without knowing most of the facts, for instance the thought processes that went into it, the actual facts about how long it took to write, etc. Why, how long do you think it took to write? Everything I've ever read about it suggests that it began at least half a century after Jesus's death. I assumed that since you're a Christian, that you would at least put some faith in it. Faith is personal for me. And no, I don't mean that in the sense that I make an exception to my homosexuality for Jesus every Sunday. I'm not a female version of SpiderPoet. I mean simply that my faith is my business; I'm conflicted about it and I don't think my doubts lessen my faith. I think my doubts of, my confusion about, and my anger towards God make my faith stronger. I also think that it's affirmation is helped by Roman Records and that Josephus character, at least I think that was his name. As far as I know, the Roman records don't mention Jesus even once.
Firestarter Posted October 10, 2003 Report Posted October 10, 2003 He may not be as ignorant and you like to tell him he is . In the grand scheme of things you may turn out to be more ignorant then he is. Anything may be possible. For any statement to be substantive you must offer and defend a probability. Of course we would need Armageddon so that way we can really prove who is right. And I'm not dying so you two selfish fucks can see who have the biggest proverbial dick. God isn't important enough for me to wish for Armageddon.
Firestarter Posted October 10, 2003 Report Posted October 10, 2003 I detest when Christians get so caught up in themselves that they forget their own burden of sin. Rather than wallowing in it as you do, I suppose. Not really a more attractive image. I search for Christian answers because secular conclusions are already out there and widely known. Conclusions that try to tie what's out there with a biblical world view are what I'm after Now we get to the crux of it, if you'll excuse the expression. You're searching for evidence to prove your preconceived notions, your religious beliefs, your ideology correct. You're not after the truth. Thank you; I think that says it all.
AboveAverage484 Posted October 10, 2003 Report Posted October 10, 2003 Hey, we can take this to NHB, no problem. And bring your buddy JobberoftheWeek, who you're probably fucking on the side, with you. Laying the throwdown makes you HARDCORE, buddy! You must be a high-ranking karate master or a strongman or something to talk so confident! Hey, I've got a whole day before K-1 comes on, so fucking with a couple of asshole, proverbial anti-Christ keyboard warriors can burn some time before then. I can see this thread is close to closure. Odds of getting killed in the Civil War if you served in a combat-ready unit in the Union Army: 1:42.7
Firestarter Posted October 10, 2003 Report Posted October 10, 2003 And if I knew you Jobber, I would have probably beat your ass bloody, pounded you in the pavement, and then pissed on your visceral remains, all the while laughing and humming "Pay the Price" by Sick of It All... Odds of getting killed in the Civil War if you served in a combat-ready unit in the Union Army: 1:42.7 I think that's just about enough. I can see this thread is close to closure. Possibly. Personally, I think you're a lot closer to a ban.
AboveAverage484 Posted October 10, 2003 Report Posted October 10, 2003 I edited the graphic part, which I readily admit, was goinga little too far. I think that's just about enough. Speak for yourself, I'm not the one degrading a man's own personal beliefs, and ones that he feels very strongly about at that. From what I've seen, SpiderPoet has been less inflammatory towards your opinions than you have to his. 47 Union generals were killed in action compared to 77 on the Confederate side.
Dr. Tom Posted October 10, 2003 Report Posted October 10, 2003 Benoitrulz4life, take this to NHB if you wish to continue it. Your threats, whether facetious (note: word used correctly) or not, are welcome neither there nor here, so I'd dispense with them entirely if you wish to continue posting here. This will be your only warning.
AboveAverage484 Posted October 10, 2003 Report Posted October 10, 2003 It's finished, Doc. Note: I have a vague idea of what facetious means, I just wanted to sound smart by using it.
Firestarter Posted October 10, 2003 Report Posted October 10, 2003 I'm not the one degrading a man's own personal beliefs, and ones that he feels very strongly about at that. As I have already stated, beliefs, however strong, are not immune to criticism. SpiderPoet himself freely and deliberately brings his beliefs into the debate. In fact, his beliefs usually form the crux of his arguments. As such they are central to any argument brought forward against him. Arguing against science through one's faith is not only bad science and poor logic, it is worse theology. From what I've seen, SpiderPoet has been less inflammatory towards your opinions than you have to his. Irrelevant. My beliefs and opinions have nothing to do with my arguments. Evidence and its analysis do.
chaosrage Posted October 10, 2003 Report Posted October 10, 2003 Hey, Cancer Marney. Shut the Fuck Up! SpiderPoet seems like a decent enough guy around the board, so get off his fucking nuts about something he believes in you facetious bitch. I think if I worked with you or went to school with you, you would have been bitch-slapped by me by now. Do you even know what we're talking about? It doesn't matter what he believes. Evolution is a fact, get it? If you don't understand that, then you *really* need to stop talking. Fast. And take a biology course.
AboveAverage484 Posted October 10, 2003 Report Posted October 10, 2003 As I have already stated, beliefs, however strong, are not immune to criticism. SpiderPoet himself freely and deliberately brings his beliefs into the debate. In fact, his beliefs usually form the crux of his arguments. As such they are central to any argument brought forward against him. Arguing against science through one's faith is not only bad science and poor logic, it is worse theology. Irrelevant. My beliefs and opinions have nothing to do with my arguments. Evidence and its analysis do. Speaking of irrelevant, did anyone else think of Shockwave from Transformers when they read this? *Looks around, and sees nobody else in thread. Quietly leaves.* BTW, I'm not one to carry a grudge, so consider the hatch buried between me and Marney/Jobber as far as I'm concerned. (Yes, the threat of being banned had a little to do with as well, so go ahead and call me a pussy.)
Guest Agent of Oblivion Posted October 10, 2003 Report Posted October 10, 2003 Did you even have a point before posting in this thread? ANYWAY, regarding the same thread we've had a billion times before: Scientific understanding requires both facts and theories that can explain those facts in a coherent manner. Evolution, in this context, is both a fact and a theory. It is an incontrovertible fact that organisms have changed, or evolved, during the history of life on Earth. And biologists have identified and investigated mechanisms that can explain the major patterns of change. The Above is taken from Dr. Richard Lenski's website. Then there's - R. C. Lewontin "Evolution/Creation Debate: A Time for Truth" Bioscience 31, 559. "It is time for students of the evolutionary process, especially those who have been misquoted and used by the creationists, to state clearly that evolution is a FACT, not ("only a" - ed.) theory, and that what is at issue within biology are q estions of details of the process and the relative importance of different mechanisms of evolution. It is a FACT that the earth with liquid water, is more than 3.6 billion years old. It is a FACT that cellular life has been around for at least half of that period and that organised multicellular life is at least 800 million years old. It is a FACT that major life forms now on earth were not at all represented in the past. There were no birds or mammals 250 million years ago. It is a FACT that major life forms of the past are no longer living. There used to be dinosaurs and Pithecanthropus, and there are none now. It is a FACT that all living forms come from previous living forms. Therefore, all present forms of life arose from ancestral forms that were different. Birds arose from nonbirds and humans from nonhumans. No person who pretends to any understanding of the natural world can deny these facts any more than she or he can deny that the earth is round, rotates on its axis, and revolves around the sun. The controversies about evolution lie in the realm of the relative importance of various forces in moulding evolution." I don't care how hard anyone believes it to be otherwise, evolution's on the money. Whether this is the grand scheme of an omnipotent intangible creator is up to theologians, but the scientists are doing their jobs.
Guest SP-1 Posted October 10, 2003 Report Posted October 10, 2003 benoit, Marney's generally allowed to do and say whatever she wants, regardless of whether it's flaming in the wrong places or not. Most of us can't quite figure out WHY she's allowed to do so, but she is. It's really something that anyone active in the CE folder and elsewhere on the board has to accept until a Mod or Admin is motivated enough to pin her on it. But don't count on that happening anytime soon. *shrug* Also, I believe DH has provided evidence of Roman records indicating the trial and crucifiction of Jesus. Though he would have to show up and talk about that since I'm not going to go searching for the thread right now. At any rate, once I have the time to sit down and look into the earlier arguments, I'll tackle it in another thread elsewhere on the board (not NHB, because I'm not going to give anyone the chance to take it beyond actual discussion just because they can in there). Interestingly enough to me, I recently found out that I may have had an ancestor that fought in the civil war or was severely affected by it. I don't think that memorials should be offensive, as there were other circumstances surrounding the war (as have been laid out above better than I'm able to do so right now) and it wasn't merely about slavery. Good men fought and died, and should be remembered. In my opinion, anyway.
Ripper Posted October 10, 2003 Report Posted October 10, 2003 benoit, Marney's generally allowed to do and say whatever she wants, regardless of whether it's flaming in the wrong places or not. Most of us can't quite figure out WHY she's allowed to do so, but she is. It's really something that anyone active in the CE folder and elsewhere on the board has to accept until a Mod or Admin is motivated enough to pin her on it. But don't count on that happening anytime soon. *shrug* Also, I believe DH has provided evidence of Roman records indicating the trial and crucifiction of Jesus. Though he would have to show up and talk about that since I'm not going to go searching for the thread right now. At any rate, once I have the time to sit down and look into the earlier arguments, I'll tackle it in another thread elsewhere on the board (not NHB, because I'm not going to give anyone the chance to take it beyond actual discussion just because they can in there). Interestingly enough to me, I recently found out that I may have had an ancestor that fought in the civil war or was severely affected by it. I don't think that memorials should be offensive, as there were other circumstances surrounding the war (as have been laid out above better than I'm able to do so right now) and it wasn't merely about slavery. Good men fought and died, and should be remembered. In my opinion, anyway. I still don't see how people can't tell the difference between A: Insulting your opinions in CE(which is the purpose of the folder and what Marney does) and saying "I'd your ass you little twat cock ayass." All insults aren't flames. Me saying "Dammitt you are stupid" and then providing reason for why I believe you to be stupid(ie. beliefs that you expressed) isn't flaming. Saying I'd kick your ass cause you're a asshole...flaming.
Your Paragon of Virtue Posted October 10, 2003 Report Posted October 10, 2003 I think that there is more truth to the New Testament than most people give it credit for. They generally give blanket statements without knowing most of the facts, for instance the thought processes that went into it, the actual facts about how long it took to write, etc. Why, how long do you think it took to write? Everything I've ever read about it suggests that it began at least half a century after Jesus's death. I assumed that since you're a Christian, that you would at least put some faith in it. Faith is personal for me. And no, I don't mean that in the sense that I make an exception to my homosexuality for Jesus every Sunday. I'm not a female version of SpiderPoet. I mean simply that my faith is my business; I'm conflicted about it and I don't think my doubts lessen my faith. I think my doubts of, my confusion about, and my anger towards God make my faith stronger. I also think that it's affirmation is helped by Roman Records and that Josephus character, at least I think that was his name. As far as I know, the Roman records don't mention Jesus even once. I've heard anywhere from thirty to sixty years after his death, just like you said. While most use this as something that would deny the existence of Jesus, in actuality it only strengthens the case. This is actually fairly soon for biographical information to be recorded about someone else, as most other books around the time period have books written about 200 years later at the least. The most glaring example would be the first known biography of Alexander the Great, which from what I remember offhand is about six hundred years later. Thirty years, or sixty, whatever, is considerably shorter than the norm of that period. To deny the bible would be to deny most accounts of history from the period, biographical or not. Questioning it only makes it stronger, that is true. I never debate or question another person's faith, which is pretty much a personal thing. That's why I have no right to go up to someone and deny their beliefs in God, or lack thereof. Roman Records do have "Jesus of Nazareth" in there, as they kept records of pretty much everything during their rule, which is pretty much the first time that any civilization has kept specific records of everything that have gone on. Skeptics would rather challenge the issue of whether or not "Jesus of Nazareth" would be the same Jesus that we depict in the Bible.
chaosrage Posted October 10, 2003 Report Posted October 10, 2003 benoit, Marney's generally allowed to do and say whatever she wants, regardless of whether it's flaming in the wrong places or not. Most of us can't quite figure out WHY she's allowed to do so, but she is. It's really something that anyone active in the CE folder and elsewhere on the board has to accept until a Mod or Admin is motivated enough to pin her on it. But don't count on that happening anytime soon. This is sad. Who the heck is "most of us"? Most of us seem to be in agreement that you're a complete fool and you deserve the flaming. I think she's too easy on you myself. You come off sounding really arrogant , while at the same time you hardly ever back up anything you say. Oh, but don't let that stop you from whining and crying for an admin though, like some little kid who lost his toy. If you want to cry, go ahead and cry. Does she hurt your feelings? Do you need some kleenex? Or maybe.... you can grow the fuck up and just deal with it.
chaosrage Posted October 10, 2003 Report Posted October 10, 2003 I still don't see how people can't tell the difference between A: Insulting your opinions in CE(which is the purpose of the folder and what Marney does) and saying "I'd your ass you little twat cock ayass." All insults aren't flames. Me saying "Dammitt you are stupid" and then providing reason for why I believe you to be stupid(ie. beliefs that you expressed) isn't flaming. Saying I'd kick your ass cause you're a asshole...flaming. Seriously, I think it's more like he's just trying to make a way out for himself. Because if he's comes back from asking his fundie friends about evolution and he doesn't find anything to refute the arguments on the thread, he could just say that he's tired of being insulted and drop out. That's what I got out of it anyway.
Guest SP-1 Posted October 11, 2003 Report Posted October 11, 2003 I can recall saying something to an Admin. a grand total of . . . once. And she deserved more than she got for her comments, likening me to a 9/11 terrorist simply because I stick to my guns on my core beliefs. But, I'll give it to her that she commands the English language supremely well and can generally manage to skate her way around things in her wording so as to both build and destroy a case against her. I fail to see how I've "cried" or why I would see the need to. The comments of someone that has long made herself a vocal opponent of mine on an internet message board are hardly grounds for one to get quite so upset over (unless it's as heavy a subject as building an analogy between a poster and a terrorist, though once my complaint was shot down I let it go with no further comment and it serves now only as a brief encounter that defined just how important the rules of the board really are). Though, it is kind of fun to see you running in to serve as Marney's lackey in this particular discussion. Don't get so worked up, bro. Save your keystrokes for a worthwhile endeavor. I assure you, she's more than capable of operating without backup. As for talking to my "fundie buddies", if you mean "buddies" as in the staff of respected, rounded professors available to me here (and yes, Christian professors can be rounded: CS Lewis was a believer in Evolution), as well as researching the subject across several mediums and views then . . . sure, you could call it that. But, I'd suggest learning the definitions of the words "fundamentalist" and "buddy" and try to re-word your claim, because as-is, it would be faulty and a lie.
Jobber of the Week Posted October 11, 2003 Report Posted October 11, 2003 Hey, we can take this to NHB, no problem. That usually implies back and forth namecalling. I just like to take whatever arguement people post and prove them wrong, then watch them try and pull unproven half-facts or careless assumptions to make their case. Problem is you did little in that post but talk smack. proverbial anti-Christ keyboard warriors There's a joke in there, but I'm too tired to pull it out. Speak for yourself, I'm not the one degrading a man's own personal beliefs Okay, now understand this: Creationism isn't just a "belief," but it might as well be. It's junk science. But the problem is that there's people who think it should be included in schools. Not only does that tiptoe close to legalized preaching in schools, but there's little to no fact involved. It's balogna, and it shouldn't be in science books. Anyhoo, that's my rebuttal to that. Case closed. And SP, if you can't take the , get out of the oven.
chaosrage Posted October 11, 2003 Report Posted October 11, 2003 I can recall saying something to an Admin. a grand total of . . . once. You mean besides your last post where you were practically begging an admin to step in? Are you telling me you actually PMed one to complain before? Heh. That's..... well pathetic beyond words. And she deserved more than she got for her comments, likening me to a 9/11 terrorist simply because I stick to my guns on my core beliefs. How's about standing up to her yourself. Or if you can't do that, then you could ignore it. Or you could sit there and whine to people about it I guess... But anyway, am I supposed to believe you have the time to go on and on for paragraphs but you don't have enough time to look up the questions I asked you? Though, it is kind of fun to see you running in to serve as Marney's lackey in this particular discussion. Don't get so worked up, bro. Save your keystrokes for a worthwhile endeavor. I assure you, she's more than capable of operating without backup. I'm more making fun of you for being a baby than I'm coming to Marney's defense. You're right, it's obvious she doesn't need help in getting under your skin. But since I am here and do feel like commenting, I did. As for talking to my "fundie buddies", if you mean "buddies" as in the staff of respected, rounded professors available to me here (and yes, Christian professors can be rounded: CS Lewis was a believer in Evolution), as well as researching the subject across several mediums and views then . . . sure, you could call it that. But, I'd suggest learning the definitions of the words "fundamentalist" and "buddy" and try to re-word your claim, because as-is, it would be faulty and a lie. I meant the people that you're actually going to ask. Or else it wouldn't make a difference to you whether they were Christian or not. See how that works?
Guest Agent of Oblivion Posted October 11, 2003 Report Posted October 11, 2003 Well, when everyone gets the sand out of their particular orifices, can we get a counterpoint to evolution being a fact? I've never seen one that wasn't biblical text.
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