Heaven and Hell...

[rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0]

Nope.  Not in the slightest.  Heaven and Hell are inventions of early religious leaders who used them as tools of behavioral control.  When we die, we spend "eternity" rotting in a wooden box.

I respect your opinion, but your theory, as the theories of others, really can't be proved. We all must have faith in what we believe.

An atheist really can't have faith, can they?

 

Hell yes I believe there's a heaven and hell.

I have faith that there isn't a God...

[Guest SP-1]

Yes, naturally. I don't believe living a good life gets you into Heaven because everyone does alot of screwed up stuff, too, and that can't just be discounted. Everyone sins, even the Pope and Mother Teresa.

 

I'd be happy to discuss the way to get there with anyone interested, but I'm not of a mind to throw the whole damn board into dissaray by simply stating what I believe.

[KanadianKrusty 0]

I don't really beleive that heaven & hell stuff, animals live, die, and rot, humans are no different because we ARE animals, I don't think that the fact that we believe in some religion will take us anywhere after life.

 

BTW: SP, I'd like to hear what you have to say about the "way to get there".

[Big McLargeHuge 0]

I believe in an afterlife. There's gotta be more than this right? It's kinda sad if we just 'stop being'.

[Chuck Woolery 0]

I'm not of a mind to throw the whole damn board into dissaray by simply stating what I believe.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I highly doubt your faith will throw the whole board into disarray.

[caboose 0]

I hope there is a heavan and hell otherwise I'll be pissed there is no decent pay off to the storyline that is my life.

[rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0]

I believe in an afterlife. There's gotta be more than this right? It's kinda sad if we just 'stop being'.

It's more than sad. It's immensely tragic. Which is why some guy a few thousand years back decided to create "Heaven and Hell". And I'm not talking about God.

[Giuseppe Zangara 0]

I believe in an afterlife. There's gotta be more than this right? It's kinda sad if we just 'stop being'.

It's more than sad. It's immensely tragic. Which is why some guy a few thousand years back decided to create "Heaven and Hell". And I'm not talking about God.

Ozzy Osbourne?

[caboose 0]

Dying and discovering there is no Heavan or Hell would be like Savage pinning Steamboat after 30 seconds at WM3. It's a crock of shit.

 

On the other hand, if there isn't a heavan and hell or afterlife, and we in fact just die, I'm not really going to notice.

 

Oh please let there be an afterlife!

[Guest Insanityman]

Now I figure I'm going to sound pretty ignorant and naive... but still. Even though we are humans, at least we are superior in some way. I mean, there's no penguins typing out their opinions right now- okay, that may be from lack of fingers but you catch my drift. So really to say we're just organic matter is true... but we're really really cool matter (god I sound retarded), so us having some form of an afterlife isn't completely far-fetched.

 

I'm agnostic, not really swaying to Christianity or atheism- but though this place of eternal damnation or bliss seems rather "out there" so does not thinking it exists. I can understand where one would believe there's some greater power, but there's no place a soul travels or the body goes- it just rots.

 

I mean, just think about it- it's almost hard, if not harder, to imagine if there was no God. That somehow all these elements came into alignment and formed the Universe and slowly changed into planets. From the planets bacteria and whatever esle became simple fish to fish to animals all the to humans. How could that really work out without some form of higher power making it happen.

 

Granted Heaven and Hell very well could be a way of keeping the humans in line- kinda like Santa Claus but without reaping the benefits of gifts with little kids... but I can't fathom there being absolutely no higher power.

 

Oh and about "how would you get there? Rent a convertible? *snort snort snort*" I mean, hell, if there was a God... he created this whole (supposedly) infinite Universe and then created life yadda yadda yadda- something tells me uplifting a soul into where ever his dude wants isn't much of a challenge.

[rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0]

Now I figure I'm going to sound pretty ignorant and naive... but still. Even though we are humans, at least we are superior in some way. I mean, there's no penguins typing out their opinions right now- okay, that may be from lack of fingers but you catch my drift. So really to say we're just organic matter is true... but we're really really cool matter (god I sound retarded), so us having some form of an afterlife isn't completely far-fetched.

I know what you're saying, but the fact is we're no different from monkeys, dolphins, cats or dogs. We're made of the same chemicals. We've got the same basic brain structure. We do many things for the same reasons. If there is a soul, every animal on the planet has got one and has got an afterlife. And if that's the case, and animals aren't inteligent to consciously sin, does that mean they're all going to heaven? Or are they all going to hell for not praying? Dammit, Christianity's too complex for me.

[Guest Insanityman]

Well I'm no SpiderPoet or priest or anything close. But I can't really remember a time when I've heard that animals are damned to Hell or subjected to no afterlife. Hell, I wouldn't mind being a cute dog if I got a free ticket to Heaven. Someone will correct me on this, I'm sure. But I have Operation Ivy in, I'm too happy of a mood to really go into deep thought- and my answer is undecided since I never made it obvious.

 

I've been Irish Catholic and I've been the Anti-Christ, so I know the debate from both sides. Religion overall seems like insurance to me. Considering, at least my priest Uncle said, that if you live a life with morals and make mistakes yet forgive you're gonna' be fine. So that limits me on massive orgies and killing sprees- but hey those never seem to be in the cards since seeing other blood makes me nervous and catching green froth drip in a paper cup doesn't appeal to me. If there's no afterlife then you've maybe wasted a good amount of hours at church and prolly more hours at confession (kidding) but there's no REAL loss. I'm just too lazy and not quite willing to throw in the towel and call myself Catholic again.

[Nighthawk 0]

You know... all dogs go to heaven.

[rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0]

You know... all dogs go to heaven.

What about the evil ones?

 

You know. Poodles.

[Guest Insanityman]

...And the Taco Bell dog, and while we're at it the dog who chased me for a block and it ended with it smashing head first into a electrical box. True story, in retrospect- I should of stopped and seen if it was okay, instead I skated away laughing.

 

I think this whole going to Heaven thing may be a moot point from that experience.

[Vern Gagne 0]

Checkers and the Lassie that mauled Timmy.

[rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0]

Santos L Halper.

 

And Hitlers evil dog that used to make fun of dalmations.

[Guest El Satanico]

dalmations would go to hell...they are quite insane...and as we know the mentally ill or challenged will go to hell.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

How the hell are you burning in flames but it is DARK.

 

You can accept that after you die, your soul travels to a place that no one can see and lives there for all eternity, but you can't accept that in these places, the laws of physics would be altered? That's kinda...odd.

 

If there is a soul, every animal on the planet has got one and has got an afterlife.

 

You're basing that on what, exactly?

 

I might not be a thelogian (Hell, I doubt I even spelled the word properly) but look at it from this angle: Accept, for the sake of argument, that there is a God, and he created this planet and all the creatures on it.

 

Of all those creatures, God made ONE type in his own image. God gave ONE type of creature the mental capacity to do what humans do. And God sent His son to save ONE type of creature - Jesus didn't come because some dogs were being mean to each other.

 

God made man with a soul, and man alone. Dogs don't have one, sheep don't have one, birds don't have one - only people, because God made them that way. At least, that's what I've always been told, and my home is quite Catholic.

 

I don't see how accepting that there is a human soul means that all creatures have them.

 

Also, oddly enough, the prospect of an afterlife kind of frightens me, because I simply cannot comprehend ANYTHING lasting for all time. I don't know if I'd WANT to exist for all time. I mean, think about it - a million billion trillion years is NOTHING compared to infinity.

 

I dunno, infinity and the prospect thereof is one of those things that always kind of worried me.

[Guest Ten Ton Lid]

I hope that there is an afterlife, provided that the one true faith turns out to be the worship of some unknown diety that like three people believed in five thousand years ago. The looks on everyone’s faces in Hell would be worth it.

[rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0]

If there is a soul, every animal on the planet has got one and has got an afterlife.

 

You're basing that on what, exactly?

 

I might not be a thelogian (Hell, I doubt I even spelled the word properly) but look at it from this angle: Accept, for the sake of argument, that there is a God, and he created this planet and all the creatures on it.

 

Of all those creatures, God made ONE type in his own image. God gave ONE type of creature the mental capacity to do what humans do. And God sent His son to save ONE type of creature - Jesus didn't come because some dogs were being mean to each other.

 

God made man with a soul, and man alone. Dogs don't have one, sheep don't have one, birds don't have one - only people, because God made them that way. At least, that's what I've always been told, and my home is quite Catholic.

 

I don't see how accepting that there is a human soul means that all creatures have them.

What are the signs of having a soul? Everything we do or feel is mirrored in animals. Of course, you are putting forward the idea that God made humans in his image, and animals for some random reason, but without a soul, surely animals would be evil, right?

 

The basic idea that only humans have souls comes from the idea that humans are better than animals, set apart from them. While that is the Christian viewpoint, you cannot argue that basic animal morphology and chemistry show that we are the same as other animals, even if we are more inteligent.

 

The whole logic behine the idea that humans have souls, but animals dont is because God created humans in his image, but not other animals. But everything that makes us alive is there in other animals. Where in the Bible does it say that humans have souls but not other animals? If it does, how can you be sure that it's not the work of years of chinese whispers and put there by God-fearing scholars who think they're better than their pets?

 

Religions older than Christianity believe all animals have souls. Zoological science has shown that animals and humans are related and that if there is a soul, both have them. When I look into my cats eyes, I can see she's not soulless. I don't understand why Christianity should make me believe otherwise.

[rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0]

I hope that there is an afterlife, provided that the one true faith turns out to be the worship of some unknown diety that like three people believed in five thousand years ago. The looks on everyone’s faces in Hell would be worth it.

Thats a good reason to wish eternal damnation on the entire Earths population

[Guest Ten Ton Lid]

I hope that there is an afterlife, provided that the one true faith turns out to be the worship of some unknown diety that like three people believed in five thousand years ago. The looks on everyone’s faces in Hell would be worth it.

Thats a good reason to wish eternal damnation on the entire Earths population

And it's only #517 on my list, too.

[Spicy McHaggis 0]

What are the signs of having a soul?

Reason.

[Guest Ten Ton Lid]

What are the signs of having a soul?

Reason.

"Hey! Something I can eat!" = Action 1

"Hey! Something I can fuck!" = Action 2

"Hey! Pain!" = Action 3

"Hey! Known source of pain!" = Action 4

 

There's your basic operating instructions for every animal. Abstract this slightly, add a few cute stories so we don't scare ourselves shitless beyond function with the one relevant, unique piece of information that we do have (advance knowledge that we're going to die), and there's human reason. Forgive me if I don't think that makes us all that special, especially to the point of having eternal existence.

[Guest El Satanico]

I hope that there is an afterlife, provided that the one true faith turns out to be the worship of some unknown diety that like three people believed in five thousand years ago. The looks on everyone’s faces in Hell would be worth it.

Thats a good reason to wish eternal damnation on the entire Earths population

And it's only #517 on my list, too.

:imagines Richard Dawson at the gates of heaven:

 

Ok we're ready...we're gonna go with God

 

Shooow me god....

 

:buzzer sounds:

 

nooo

[Use Your Illusion 0]

Nope.  Not in the slightest.  Heaven and Hell are inventions of early religious leaders who used them as tools of behavioral control.  When we die, we spend "eternity" rotting in a wooden box.

I respect your opinion, but your theory, as the theories of others, really can't be proved. We all must have faith in what we believe.

I, too, respect your opinion.

 

I am interested in what you believe proves the theory of Heaven and Hell. I am not challenging your belief system, or proclaiming to have the correct point of view. I am, however, highly interested in the events that have occurred during your lifetime that proves to you there is an afterlife.

 

UYI

[The Metal Maniac 0]

and animals for some random reason, but without a soul, surely animals would be evil, right?

 

Having a soul does not automatically make you good - after all, many people are evil.

 

Zoological science has shown that animals and humans are related and that if there is a soul, both have them.

 

I won't deny that humans are simply just a more intelligent type of creature - but how can ANYTHING show that if people have a soul, animals have one too? I really don't understand this.

 

Religions older than Christianity believe all animals have souls.

 

So? As is my understanding, we're discussing the Christian Heaven and Hell. What difference does it make what other religons believe?

 

Now, honest question - Are animals capable of abstract thought, or are they only capable to consider things that they know to exist (IE, where their food is)? Because if they're not capable, then that sets us apart.

 

Also, somehow I doubt animals have a concept of good and evil - Again, set apart.

 

Is it much of a difference? Probably not. Does that difference leave the potential for people to have souls, while animals don't? I'd say so.

 

Oh and for the record, I've been browsing through the Bible (Like I said, Catholic home) and while I can't find anything specific, I can see that God "blessed" humans, which he didn't do to animals, and God also TOLD humans that we were to rule over the creatures of the land, sea, and sky.

 

Somehow, I can't see God telling us that we're allowed to boss around all animals if they, indeed, did have souls.

 

But then again, this Bible is all fragged up. Apparantly God created the animals twice...damned illogical Bible.

 

But anyway, I stand by my original point - Because people have souls is no reason to assume that animals have souls, even if we aren't very different genetically.

 

Because while genetically we may be similar, in God's eyes, we're obviously two totally different things. And what He says goes, really.

 

Arg...my head hurts...I think I spent way too long trying to write this coherently...

 

Oh, and to slide off-topic for a bit...UYI, are you back here now, or just making a few posts, or what? I thought you vanished somehwere...

[Use Your Illusion 0]

I'm back for now, MM. I had some issues that needed to be dealt with and I've been away from here for a good 6 - 8 months or so.

 

But I'll be hanging around for a while longer, whenever I have the spare time.

[Rendclaw 0]

I believe in reincarnation and i have since I was a kid. It makes more sense that if there is some sort of afterlife, you are born, you live, you die, you turn around and are sent back into the "game" with but a shadow of your experiences and memories from your previous life/lives.

 

We can debate religion, Christianity in particular from now until we find out for sure what happens when we die, people, but I refuse to believe in a religion or set of religions over which more blood has been spilled than the two World Wars and all of the other of Earth's conflicts combined.

 

Think about that the next time you think your religion being the one true way, and the millions of people that died and continue to die because of it.