France: Hamas, Islamic Jihad not terror groups

[Guest Anglesault]

Somewhat like Marney or Mike would know specific numbers, but you should also take into account the actual ratio of African Americans to whites in this country. If say (And this number is totally coming out of my ass) Black people make up 15% of the population, doesn't it make sense that they would have 15% of the top jobs?

[rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0]

Fair play.

[Guest JMA]

If Bush were black, would he be President?

I very much doubt it.

 

We've not had a competent black candidate for President yet

I believe Powell was once a candidate for President (he just didn't get the nomination). Are you calling him incompetent? Both parties want to win, sometimes at any cost. Therefore, of course they're going to nominate someone who is the same race as the majority. Both the Dems and Repubs do this.

[Justice 0]

We've not had a competent black candidate for President yet

I believe Powell was once a candidate for President (he just didn't get the nomination). Are you calling him incompetent? Both parties want to win, sometimes at any cost. Therefore, of course they're going to nominate someone who is the same race as the majority. Both the Dems and Repubs do this.

I'm quite sure Powell has never run for the Presidency before (Not even in the primaries). He's been asked to many times, but I'm quite sure that he's turned it down every time.

 

JMA, it's quite obvious he's referring to people like Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson or hell, even Alan Keyes. These people are A) Generally play on Racial politics to the extreme B) Are on fringe movements of their party or C) A & B. It's kinda stupid to play it up any other way.

[Firestarter 0]

Black people make up 15% of the population, doesn't it make sense that they would have 15% of the top jobs?

No. In racial terms, black people tend to have less education than white people. It makes no sense at all for them to be proportionally represented. In this administration, people are appointed to the top jobs because of their competence, not because the President wants to create a cabinet that "looks like America."

[rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0]

Black people make up 15% of the population, doesn't it make sense that they would have 15% of the top jobs?

No. In racial terms, black people tend to have less education than white people. It makes no sense at all for them to be proportionally represented. In this administration, people are appointed to the top jobs because of their competence, not because the President wants to create a cabinet that "looks like America."

I thought it evened out more in higher education.

[Firestarter 0]

there is a history of racism in your country comparable to anti-semitism in France, and to say that it's not still present is just naive.

And to claim that it is without any proof whatsoever is ridiculous.

[rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0]

there is a history of racism in your country comparable to anti-semitism in France, and to say that it's not still present is just naive.

And to claim that it is without any proof whatsoever is ridiculous.

Are you saying that there is no racism in America?

[Guest Anglesault]

Black people make up 15% of the population, doesn't it make sense that they would have 15% of the top jobs?

No. In racial terms, black people tend to have less education than white people. It makes no sense at all for them to be proportionally represented. In this administration, people are appointed to the top jobs because of their competence, not because the President wants to create a cabinet that "looks like America."

Well, you showed me.

 

And I guess I probably am more in favor of hiring the more qualified candidate, regardess of what he looks like. Hiring someone just because they're black (or white or Latino) can lead to disaster.

[Guest JMA]

Are you saying that there is no racism in America?

I don't think ANYONE would say that.

[Firestarter 0]

Are you saying that there is no racism in America?

Are you saying it's institutionalised, unpenalised, and commonly accepted, as it is in France?

[Justice 0]

there is a history of racism in your country comparable to anti-semitism in France, and to say that it's not still present is just naive.

And to claim that it is without any proof whatsoever is ridiculous.

Are you saying that there is no racism in America?

No, but it's not the massive movement you seem to think it is. Racism isn't very prevalent in our society today and there really isn't a comparison to France with Anti-Semitism.

[Guest JMA]

Slighty off-topic: I sometimes get confused with the concept of race. It seems very loosely based. For example, I myself always thought Italians were considered "white," but my mother's boyfriend (who is Italian) says they aren't. And some people think being Jewish means you're a different race (Hitler viewed Jews as a race, I believe). Then there is the fact that people with black skin and people with brown skin are both called "black." And why exactly are blacks called African Americans when humans themselves originated in Africa? What exactly makes someone a different race? Is it nationality, skin color, or both?

 

Edit: Had to change "racism" to "race."

[rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0]

Slighty off-topic: I sometimes get confused with the concept of race. It seems very loosely based. For example, I myself always thought Italians were considered "white," but my mother's boyfriend (who is Italian) says they aren't. And some people think being Jewish means you're a different race (Hitler viewed Jews as a race, I believe). Then there is the fact that people with black skin and people with brown skin are both called "black." And why exactly are blacks called African Americans when humans themselves originated in Africa? What exactly makes someone a different race? Is it nationality, skin color, or both?

 

Edit: Had to change "racism" to "race."

Technically, genetics.

[Guest Anglesault]

And why exactly are blacks called African Americans when humans themselves originated in Africa"

Or, more modern, why isn't an Egyptian living here an "African American"?

[rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0]

Are you saying that there is no racism in America?

Are you saying it's institutionalised, unpenalised, and commonly accepted, as it is in France?

I can only speak from personal experience, but I've always thought of the rise of the far-left in France as similar to the rise of the BNP.

 

Both are born out of a similar disenchantment to "foreigners" as the Nazi party. People see rising unemployment, and blame it on an influx of foreigners. In the UK, this is asians and africans, in France it is the Jewish and non-whites. Hell, they happened at the both times and coincided with a similar rise in hate crimes on both sides of the channel.

 

However, the rise of these parties do not coincide with the view of the nation. I pop over to France at least once a month (hell, it's less than $15 for a day return, cheaper than getting a train to London, and much more satisfying) and I haven't seen any signs of racism/ anti-semitism, such as grafiti, a lack of any particular race or the like. All the French people I have spoken to are disgusted by Le Pen's result in the elections in 2002. Hell, I went to one of the protest rallies, and that had a pretty good turn-out and no opposition.

 

From this, and the parrallels in Britain, I can honestly say that I do not believe France racism is "institutionalised, unpenalised, and commonly accepted" in France. It's certainly not a massive movement in France by any means, and it's never going to lead to a nationalistic government. If anything, it's a social faux pas to admit to anti-semitic views. And, from the Americans I've spoken to, it's very similar to the situation in the USA.

[Spicy McHaggis 0]

The higher levels of American Governments are controlled by white middle-aged males.

Like the State Department? And the National Security Council? I'll relay that to General Powell and Dr Rice. I'm sure they'll be very interested to hear your views. Could you tell me who these white males are? If they're subverting presidential appointments, I'm sure the President would like to hear about it as well.

Well, we all know they're not real blacks.

 

I'm also not saying that America is any more rascist than other countries, but there is a history of racism in your country comparable to anti-semitism in France, and to say that it's not still present is just naive.

Americans fought and died to free blacks, we didn't ship them off to concentration camps so they could be massacred. Hell, we have instituted discriminatory practices (affirmative action) that give minorities unfair advantages. You can't say the same for France and its Jewish population.

 

Are you saying that there is no racism in America?

Its not institutionalized.

 

And some people think being Jewish means you're a different race (Hitler viewed Jews as a race, I believe).

Ethnic Jews are a separate race. You might be confusing followers of Judaism and ethnic Jews. The two used to be synonymous but these days you have religious non-ethnic Jews, ethnic non-practicing Jews, etc. They really need some new terms...

[Guest MikeSC]

Well, someone doesn't agree with me

Well, when you make a statement about how all the higher ups in the US government being white males, despite the black secrtary of state and the black female national security advisor, well, you know, you're wrong.

I still stand by my point that in any predominantly white hierachy, it's going to be hard for a black person to break into that.

So how did two (Three with Thomas) do it?

Based purely on merit, admitedly.

 

But I'm sure that more than just those three black people in the whole of America deserve to be in those positions of power.

And the white guys in the other positions DON'T deserve it?

-=Mike

[Firestarter 0]

Of course not, Mike. I mean Jesus, they're white.

[Guest MikeSC]

Somewhat like Marney or Mike would know specific numbers, but you should also take into account the actual ratio of African Americans to whites in this country. If say (And this number is totally coming out of my ass) Black people make up 15% of the population, doesn't it make sense that they would have 15% of the top jobs?

Nope, that is an argument that appears logical --- until one digs a little.

 

Blacks are 15% of the population.

 

How many blacks, though, get BA's in a "difficult" (i.e science or mathematics)? A TINY percentage.

 

How manty get post-graduate degrees in areas OTHER than, say, education or liberal arts? The numbers tend to be about 1 or 2 A YEAR --- in a good year.

 

So, no, 15% of the black population does not have the education or abilities to hold high-level positions.

-=Mike

[Guest MikeSC]

If Bush were black, would he be President?

I very much doubt it.

 

We've not had a competent black candidate for President yet

I believe Powell was once a candidate for President (he just didn't get the nomination). Are you calling him incompetent? Both parties want to win, sometimes at any cost. Therefore, of course they're going to nominate someone who is the same race as the majority. Both the Dems and Repubs do this.

Powell never ran for President once. He was RUMORED to consider running, but since he did not, I can safely state that no competent black person has run for the office.

-=Mike

[Guest MikeSC]

Black people make up 15% of the population, doesn't it make sense that they would have 15% of the top jobs?

No. In racial terms, black people tend to have less education than white people. It makes no sense at all for them to be proportionally represented. In this administration, people are appointed to the top jobs because of their competence, not because the President wants to create a cabinet that "looks like America."

I thought it evened out more in higher education.

It gets even WIDER in higher education. Blacks tend to migrate to education or African-American studies and avoid the more disciplined sciences, such as biology, etc.

-=Mike

[Guest MikeSC]

there is a history of racism in your country comparable to anti-semitism in France, and to say that it's not still present is just naive.

And to claim that it is without any proof whatsoever is ridiculous.

Are you saying that there is no racism in America?

In the gov't? There is precious little racism.

-=Mike

[Guest MikeSC]

Of course not, Mike. I mean Jesus, they're white.

And they're probably men, too.

 

Jerks.

-=Mike

[Anakin Flair 0]

Slighty off-topic: I sometimes get confused with the concept of race. It seems very loosely based. For example, I myself always thought Italians were considered "white," but my mother's boyfriend (who is Italian) says they aren't. And some people think being Jewish means you're a different race (Hitler viewed Jews as a race, I believe). Then there is the fact that people with black skin and people with brown skin are both called "black." And why exactly are blacks called African Americans when humans themselves originated in Africa? What exactly makes someone a different race? Is it nationality, skin color, or both?

 

Edit: Had to change "racism" to "race."

I've never thought about it like that. I'm Jewish, and I consider my race White. I consider my religion Judism. But I suppose it's different for everybody.

[Guest JMA]

I've never thought about it like that. I'm Jewish, and I consider my race White. I consider my religion Judism. But I suppose it's different for everybody.

Yeah. It can get kinda confusing.

[rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0]

As I said before, France is not an anti-semetic country. People may make rascist jokes, but they do that everywhere. They may have extremist groups, but they are everywhere. It's certainly no worse than Britains attitude towards black people, and from what I've heard and seen not that much different from America's.

[Guest MikeSC]

As I said before, France is not an anti-semetic country. People may make rascist jokes, but they do that everywhere. They may have extremist groups, but they are everywhere. It's certainly no worse than Britains attitude towards black people, and from what I've heard and seen not that much different from America's.

Synagogues getting burned or bombed in France aren't quite rare.

 

Anti-Semitic remarks from politicians seldom lead to career suicide in France.

 

Yup, almost identical.

-=Mike

[Ripper 0]

Black people make up 15% of the population, doesn't it make sense that they would have 15% of the top jobs?

No. In racial terms, black people tend to have less education than white people. It makes no sense at all for them to be proportionally represented. In this administration, people are appointed to the top jobs because of their competence, not because the President wants to create a cabinet that "looks like America."

I thought it evened out more in higher education.

It gets even WIDER in higher education. Blacks tend to migrate to education or African-American studies and avoid the more disciplined sciences, such as biology, etc.

-=Mike

Thats the second time I have seen you say that and it simply is not true. Education majors are mostly filled with white americans. African American studies is consided a joke major and I have yet to see anyone take it as one. A minor maybe but come one.

 

First, Blacks make up 8 percent of the population, not 15. Blacks only make up 4 percent of the college community.

 

And many blacks have majors in the law and medical fields...

 

 

"How manty get post-graduate degrees in areas OTHER than, say, education or liberal arts? The numbers tend to be about 1 or 2 A YEAR --- in a good year."

 

You don't mean in the country do you...please say you don't.

 

 

And I don't think you are purposly trying to paint this incorrectly but a far greater percentage of white students are either undecieded, have liberal arts majors and education majors than minority students.

 

Now it is obvious that less minorities look to get into the political field, and that is the reason for the disportionate amount of high ranking jobs.

 

Roughly 2-3% of the population are blacks with the credentials to have top level jobs. Less than 1% of the top jobs in this country are held by blacks. Of course, there are just as many whites with the credentials to be in top spots that don't have them also. So I don't think it has anything to do with race.

 

But it has nothing to do with the education that blacks are recieveing in college, because if you are once again using that as your stance, you are once again wrong.

 

But if you aren't right about anything else, you are right that no competant minority has ever ran for the presidency. The best one has been Jesse Jackson. And when he is the best at anything...you got a problem.

[Guest JMA]

France and Germany pledge to fight anti-semitism

Hopefully, the respective goverments are sincere in their efforts.