France: Hamas, Islamic Jihad not terror groups

[Vyce 0]

France and Germany pledge to fight anti-semitism

Hopefully, the respective goverments are sincere in their efforts.

Hey, look at me, holding my breath over here.

[Guest JMA]

Hey, look at me, holding my breath over here.

Who else saw that coming?

[Guest MikeSC]

Black people make up 15% of the population, doesn't it make sense that they would have 15% of the top jobs?

No. In racial terms, black people tend to have less education than white people. It makes no sense at all for them to be proportionally represented. In this administration, people are appointed to the top jobs because of their competence, not because the President wants to create a cabinet that "looks like America."

I thought it evened out more in higher education.

It gets even WIDER in higher education. Blacks tend to migrate to education or African-American studies and avoid the more disciplined sciences, such as biology, etc.

-=Mike

Thats the second time I have seen you say that and it simply is not true. Education majors are mostly filled with white americans. African American studies is consided a joke major and I have yet to see anyone take it as one. A minor maybe but come one.

 

First, Blacks make up 8 percent of the population, not 15. Blacks only make up 4 percent of the college community.

 

And many blacks have majors in the law and medical fields...

 

 

"How manty get post-graduate degrees in areas OTHER than, say, education or liberal arts? The numbers tend to be about 1 or 2 A YEAR --- in a good year."

 

You don't mean in the country do you...please say you don't.

 

 

And I don't think you are purposly trying to paint this incorrectly but a far greater percentage of white students are either undecieded, have liberal arts majors and education majors than minority students.

 

Now it is obvious that less minorities look to get into the political field, and that is the reason for the disportionate amount of high ranking jobs.

 

Roughly 2-3% of the population are blacks with the credentials to have top level jobs. Less than 1% of the top jobs in this country are held by blacks. Of course, there are just as many whites with the credentials to be in top spots that don't have them also. So I don't think it has anything to do with race.

 

But it has nothing to do with the education that blacks are recieveing in college, because if you are once again using that as your stance, you are once again wrong.

 

But if you aren't right about anything else, you are right that no competant minority has ever ran for the presidency. The best one has been Jesse Jackson. And when he is the best at anything...you got a problem.

I didn't say that most education majors weren't white. I said most blacks tend to drift towards such discplines as education, social work, etc. Not an opinion, but a statement of fact. Shall we even get into how many blacks gain masters or Ph.D's in anything besides education?

 

The number of blacks with degrees in law or medicine is miniscule and any attempt to claim otherwise stands in stark contrast to the actual FACTS of the matter.

 

And I have YET to comment on white students. They aren't relevant to this discussion whatsoever. We're discussing BLACK students and these are problems that blacks have. Blacks have a higher drop-out rate than whites (fact) and tend to segregate themselves racially on campuses as many don't feel as intelligent as their white counterparts.

 

Fact.

-=Mike

[Guest MikeSC]

Hey, look at me, holding my breath over here.

Who else saw that coming?

Well, they've been vowing this for a while now. Pardon us if we are a bit doubtful.

-=Mike

[rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0]

As I said before, France is not an anti-semetic country. People may make rascist jokes, but they do that everywhere. They may have extremist groups, but they are everywhere. It's certainly no worse than Britains attitude towards black people, and from what I've heard and seen not that much different from America's.

Synagogues getting burned or bombed in France aren't quite rare.

 

Anti-Semitic remarks from politicians seldom lead to career suicide in France.

 

Yup, almost identical.

-=Mike

*sigh*

 

You keep on saying that like they're a popular occurence. Apart from that example of Marney's (of a politician making a joke about Israel being no threat to France at a party) what examples are there of French officials making anti-semitic comments? And, while there has been a rise in crimes on synagogues, it's hardly like this is happening every day to every synagogue in the country. The French Nationalists are a very small group and to tar the whole nation with that brush is just stupid. That would be like saying all Americans were like the KKK at their peak.

[rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0]

and tend to segregate themselves racially on campuses as many don't feel as intelligent as their white counterparts.

 

Fact.

-=Mike

That's fact now?

[Guest JMA]

Well, they've been vowing this for a while now. Pardon us if we are a bit doubtful.

At least they're TRYING to do something.

[Firestarter 0]

that example of Marney's (of a politician making a joke about Israel being no threat to France at a party)

Daniel Bernard, the French ambassador, said "that shitty little country, Israel" was the cause of all the world's troubles: "Why should the world be in danger of World War III because of those people?"

 

It wasn't a "joke," he wasn't just "a politician," and what he said had nothing to do with Israel being a threat to France. Kindly refrain from lying about the ambassador's statements.

 

Oh, and one other thing: it took over one and a half years after his statements for Bernard to be recalled. Trent Lott: mere days. Are you still eager to compare our supposed anti-black prejudice to France's demonstrated anti-Semitism?

Edited September 4, 2003 by Cancer Marney

[Guest MikeSC]

and tend to segregate themselves racially on campuses as many don't feel as intelligent as their white counterparts.

 

Fact.

        -=Mike

That's fact now?

Yup.

-=Mike

[Guest MikeSC]

Well, they've been vowing this for a while now. Pardon us if we are a bit doubtful.

At least they're TRYING to do something.

World of difference in TRYING to do something and ACTUALLY doing it.

 

We've DONE it.

-=Mike

[Guest MikeSC]

Heck, one guy in NY (I believe) nearly lost his job for using the word "niggardly" (which has NOTHING whatsoever to do with race).

 

It was DC, IIRC. And the fellow in question DID lose his job, but was reinstated in a few days. Finally, the administration realized that the whole thing was a bunch of idiots raising a fuss over nothing. Sure, I guess one could argue that he could have chosen his words more carefully, but people who had no idea what "niggardly" meant were just reacting to the pronunciation. It was sad, really.

 

Would it be fair to say that European progress in the area of anti-Semitism has been rather niggardly?

 

EDIT: Mike, I *totally* fucked up by hitting "Edit" instead of "Quote," and now I can't undo the damage I did. My apologies.

Edited September 4, 2003 by DrTom

[Guest JMA]

World of difference in TRYING to do something and ACTUALLY doing it.

 

We've DONE it.

True, but it took us a while.

[Guest MikeSC]

World of difference in TRYING to do something and ACTUALLY doing it.

 

We've DONE it.

True, but it took us a while.

We did it faster than they did.

 

And we did it more completely than they have.

 

And we had the added burden of having MANY different nationalities instead of just one to "change".

 

Ah, the enlightened people of continental Europe.

-=Mike

[Vyce 0]

JMA - I'm nowhere near the optimist you are, in general. About this, I'm even more cynical than usual.

 

Chave - Look, I know you don't live here in the States, so you don't know (which I fully admit is part of your argument about France), but Mike isn't blowing smoke out his ass here - there is no institutionalized system of racism in American government. Even the hint of that sort of thing is DEATH to a politician's career.

 

Well......except for Sen. Byrd. For some reason, that fucker is given a free pass.

[rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0]

that example of Marney's (of a politician making a joke about Israel being no threat to France at a party)

Daniel Bernard, the French ambassador, said "that shitty little country, Israel" was the cause of all the world's troubles: "Why should the world be in danger of World War III because of those people?"

 

It wasn't a "joke," he wasn't just "a politician," and what he said had nothing to do with Israel being a threat to France. Kindly refrain from lying about the ambassador's statements.

 

Oh, and one other thing: it took over one and a half years after his statements for Bernard to be recalled. Trent Lott: mere days. Are you still eager to compare our supposed anti-black prejudice to France's demonstrated anti-Semitism?

It was made at a party, and the dude probably had a few. Calling Israel a "shitty little country" may well have just been a bad taste joke.

[rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0]

Chave - Look, I know you don't live here in the States, so you don't know (which I fully admit is part of your argument about France), but Mike isn't blowing smoke out his ass here - there is no institutionalized system of racism in American government.  Even the hint of that sort of thing is DEATH to a politician's career.

I fully admit that I know nowhere near as much about life in the U.S. as you guys, and much of what I'm saying is based upon my life in Britain. I appologise for insinuating that the U.S government was rascist, but I still believe a bunch of middle-aged, middle class white guys aren't necessarily gonna be completely open to minorities (although again I obviously have no proof).

 

I am still gonna stick by my point, however, that France is not an anti-semitic country, and the general attitude towards Jewish people is no different from the American attitude towards black people. There may be a few extremist groups, but they are not representative of the country.

 

And, indeed, the main reason I am arguing this point is that I know far more about France and everyday life there than most on the board.

Edited September 4, 2003 by chave

[rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0]

World of difference in TRYING to do something and ACTUALLY doing it.

 

We've DONE it.

True, but it took us a while.

We did it faster than they did.

 

And we did it more completely than they have.

 

And we had the added burden of having MANY different nationalities instead of just one to "change".

 

Ah, the enlightened people of continental Europe.

-=Mike

The major difference is that Frances history of anti-semitism is older than the whole history of the U.S.A.

 

And there are many, many different nationalities in France, many who have longer histories of French nationalism (through colonialism) than most American minorities.

[Firestarter 0]

I still believe a bunch of middle-aged, middle class white guys aren't necessarily gonna be completely open to minorities (although again I obviously have no proof).

This is precisely the problem. You have no proof for anything you say.

 

Daniel Bernard, the French ambassador, said "that shitty little country, Israel" was the cause of all the world's troubles: "Why should the world be in danger of World War III because of those people?"

It was made at a party, and the dude probably had a few. Calling Israel a "shitty little country" may well have just been a bad taste joke.

 

"Probably," "may well have just been," "I still believe." Well, that's fine and dandy, but it's also irrelevant. No one cares about what you believe. I just want to know what you can prove.

 

You're trying vainly to explain away blatantly anti-Semitic remarks because of your ridiculous belief that France can do no wrong. Evidence against the French makes no difference. There must have been a reason for him to say what he said. Obviously he couldn't have meant it that way. He must have been drunk. And so on.

 

Appropriately enough, these are the shameless apologetics of a drunk and nothing more. But at least a drunk's judgement is affected by external factors, whereas you're only intoxicated by your own intractable, uncritical, and downright stupid beliefs. You don't even have an excuse.

Edited September 4, 2003 by Cancer Marney

[Ripper 0]

I didn't say that most education majors weren't white. I said most blacks tend to drift towards such discplines as education, social work, etc. Not an opinion, but a statement of fact. Shall we even get into how many blacks gain masters or Ph.D's in anything besides education?

 

But so do most Whites. You are saying it in a way that seems like more blacks are doing it than whites are. If you want to go by the percentages, then there are a porportionate amount of blacks seeking and/or gaining their PH.D's in many other fields. And that is a statement of FACT.

 

The number of blacks with degrees in law or medicine is miniscule and any attempt to claim otherwise stands in stark contrast to the actual FACTS of the matter.

 

About 10 percent of all college students are in law or medicine. If every single black student that went to college took up a law or medical degree, they would STILL make up a miniscule numer of those in the fields. The number of blacks in college is miniscule in comparison to whites, how are they going to make up a large percentage of those in the medical and law fields. Of the miniscule number of blacks in college, a porpotionate amount of them are in the law and medical fields as there is a likelihood that whites would be in. You can't just jump from using exact numbers to percentages whenever it supports your case.

 

I think you are missing what the main thing about being a minority is. There are less blacks in medical and law fields because there are less blacks in the country.

 

And I have YET to comment on white students. They aren't relevant to this discussion whatsoever. We're discussing BLACK students and these are problems that blacks have. Blacks have a higher drop-out rate than whites (fact) and tend to segregate themselves racially on campuses as many don't feel as intelligent as their white counterparts.

 

A: Um...no...thats not a fact. The college drop out rate is 58.1 percent. Of the blacks that enter college, there is only a 18 percent drop out rate. Blacks make up less than 5 percent of the overall college population. You do the math on whose drop out rate is larger.

 

If you are talking about highschool rates, then yeah, Blacks have a drop out rate of 6.1 percent while whites have a drop out rate of 4.1 percent. Thats the only fact you can be grabbing at.

 

B: Either you don't understand the meaning of the word fact(which I would guess you do) or you just wanted to throw that last ridiculous part on. There is no truth to that whatsoever. If it is your belief fine, but don't try to past over your opinon as fact.

[Firestarter 0]

All right, every last one of you is spewing unsubstantiated horseshit, so let's clean up the stables a bit and get some facts on the table.

 

The college drop out rate is 58.1 percent. Of the blacks that enter college, there is only a 18 percent drop out rate. Blacks make up less than 5 percent of the overall college population. You do the math on whose drop out rate is larger.

 

"Currently, 29 percent of African Americans drop out of college after less than one year, compared to 18 percent of whites."

Source: The White House, Office of the Press Secretary, 7/12/00

"By race, 42 percent of White (high school) graduates 18 to 24 years old were enrolled in college in 1993, compared with 33 percent of Blacks...

During the past 20 years, while the gap in high school graduation rates narrowed for Blacks and Whites, the gap in college attendance of those graduates has not narrowed."

Source: United States Census Bureau, 01/18/01

 

In other words, blacks have a lower absolute (not in terms of population size) college enrollment rate than whites, and a higher absolute college dropout rate once they enroll.

 

Now feel free to continue.

[rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0]

I still believe a bunch of middle-aged, middle class white guys aren't necessarily gonna be completely open to minorities (although again I obviously have no proof).

This is precisely the problem. You have no proof for anything you say.

 

Daniel Bernard, the French ambassador, said "that shitty little country, Israel" was the cause of all the world's troubles: "Why should the world be in danger of World War III because of those people?"

It was made at a party, and the dude probably had a few. Calling Israel a "shitty little country" may well have just been a bad taste joke.

 

"Probably," "may well have just been," "I still believe." Well, that's fine and dandy, but it's also irrelevant. No one cares about what you believe. I just want to know what you can prove.

 

You're trying vainly to explain away blatantly anti-Semitic remarks because of your ridiculous belief that France can do no wrong. Evidence against the French makes no difference. There must have been a reason for him to say what he said. Obviously he couldn't have meant it that way. He must have been drunk. And so on.

 

Appropriately enough, these are the shameless apologetics of a drunk and nothing more. But at least a drunk's judgement is affected by external factors, whereas you're only intoxicated by your own intractable, uncritical, and downright stupid beliefs. You don't even have an excuse.

And I suppose you've got proof that the guy meant those comments in all seriousness while sober, eh Marney? If you have, I'd be more than willing to here it. If not, then you've just contradicted yourself. All I'm trying to show is that the guy might not have made that comment as part of some grand political manifesto.

 

The fact is that sometimes you don't need proof to to know that there are always gonna be some people who are predjudiced. There arI fully admit that I know nowhere near as much about life in the U.S. as you guys, and much of what I'm saying is based upon my life in Britain. I appologise for insinuating that the U.S government was rascist, but I still believe a bunch of middle-aged, middle class white guys aren't necessarily gonna be completely non-rascist (although again I obviously have no proof).

 

I am still gonna stick by my point, however, that France is not an anti-semitic country, and the general attitude towards Jewish people is no different from the American attitude towards black people. There may be a few extremist groups, but they are not representative of the country. There are precious few statistics that Britain has racists (compared to America) but that doesn't mean it's not.

 

If you can find some, I'd like to see some comparison between French anti-semitic crimes and American (or British) anti-black crimes to see how they compare.

[Ripper 0]

All right, every last one of you is spewing unsubstantiated horseshit, so let's clean up the stables a bit and get some facts on the table.

 

The college drop out rate is 58.1 percent. Of the blacks that enter college, there is only a 18 percent drop out rate. Blacks make up less than 5 percent of the overall college population. You do the math on whose drop out rate is larger.

 

"Currently, 29 percent of African Americans drop out of college after less than one year, compared to 18 percent of whites."

Source: The White House, Office of the Press Secretary, 7/12/00

"By race, 42 percent of White (high school) graduates 18 to 24 years old were enrolled in college in 1993, compared with 33 percent of Blacks...

During the past 20 years, while the gap in high school graduation rates narrowed for Blacks and Whites, the gap in college attendance of those graduates has not narrowed."

Source: United States Census Bureau, 01/18/01

 

In other words, blacks have a lower absolute (not in terms of population size) college enrollment rate than whites, and a higher absolute college dropout rate once they enroll.

 

Now feel free to continue.

Um...Marney. You are using dated information. from 93 and 2000.

 

And seeing as 43% of college students are 24 or older, that statistic doesn't really mean much.

 

Yes, white students are almost twice as likely to go directly to college after highschool than black students.

 

The drop out rate for blacks was 13% in 1996 (http://www.ed.gov/pubs/OR/ConsumerGuides/dropout.html.), and 6.1 percent in 2000.

 

That shows how skewed things become in that period of time. Give me a few minutes (damn work getting in the way of important internet message board discussions) and I will find where I got my numbers and link to all of them.

 

 

 

BTW: I will admit that I got the overall black population among college students wrong. It is more like 10%. My fault on that one.

[Firestarter 0]

Um...Marney. You are using dated information. from 93 and 2000.

Of course. It's an indicator of trends. The summary at the end of my post is as true today as it was then.

[Firestarter 0]

I suppose you've got proof that the guy meant those comments in all seriousness while sober, eh Marney? If you have, I'd be more than willing to here it. If not, then you've just contradicted yourself.

I try to take people seriously when they say things. I don't immediately hunt for reasons why they MIGHT not have meant what they said. You do, naturally: your preconceived notions allow you to admit no possibility that might contradict them.

 

If someone makes an uncoerced statement, I don't have to provide any "proof" that he meant what he said. I take it at face value unless I have reason to do otherwise. In this case, I have none. And all you offer are inane hypotheticals.

 

I appologise for insinuating that the U.S government was rascist, but I still believe a bunch of middle-aged, middle class white guys aren't necessarily gonna be completely non-rascist (although again I obviously have no proof).

I know. I don't care. Your beliefs are irrelevant. Have you grasped that yet? Shut your ignorant mouth.

 

I am still gonna stick by my point, however, that France is not an anti-semitic country

So basically, you can't refute any of the evidence, and you have no new or valid arguments to advance, but you're going to stick by your "point" regardless. I'm sure that's just marvellous for you, but why tell me? It has nothing to do with me. It has nothing to do with the facts. In fact, it has nothing at all to do with anyone but you. So be a dear and keep it to yourself.

[rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0]

I suppose you've got proof that the guy meant those comments in all seriousness while sober, eh Marney? If you have, I'd be more than willing to here it. If not, then you've just contradicted yourself.

I try to take people seriously when they say things. I don't immediately hunt for reasons why they MIGHT not have meant what they said. You do, naturally: your preconceived notions allow you to admit no possibility that might contradict them.

 

If someone makes an uncoerced statement, I don't have to provide any "proof" that he meant what he said. I take it at face value unless I have reason to do otherwise. In this case, I have none. And all you offer are inane hypotheticals.

 

And I suppose you have proof that he wasn't co-erced then? You've got proof that that quote wasn't taked out of context? Or are you basing your whole beliefs on this situation on what an American said about it on the internet? God you're good Marney.

 

I appologise for insinuating that the U.S government was rascist, but I still believe a bunch of middle-aged, middle class white guys aren't necessarily gonna be completely non-rascist (although again I obviously have no proof).

 

I know. I don't care. Your beliefs are irrelevant. Have you grasped that yet? Shut your ignorant mouth.

Well, I'm glad that you could be mature about that and agree to disagree

 

I am still gonna stick by my point, however, that France is not an anti-semitic country

 

So basically, you can't refute any of the evidence, and you have no new or valid arguments to advance, but you're going to stick by your "point" regardless. I'm sure that's just marvellous for you, but why tell me? It has nothing to do with me. It has nothing to do with the facts. In fact, it has nothing at all to do with anyone but you. So be a dear and keep it to yourself

 

Why tell you? This was started by the fact that you dislike France and believe it to have an anti-semitic core and yet disagree that it might just be like America.

 

And, oh yes. The facts. Written by the most unbiased sources, of course. I go to France regularly, and it is nothing like the country your precious articles would lead you to believe it is.

[Justice 0]

Why tell you? This was started by the fact that you dislike France and believe it to have an anti-semitic core and yet disagree that it might just be like America.

 

Because, the fact of the matter is there isn't any anti-black sentiment anymore! You've tried to give second-hand arguments about how there are no African Americans in high places, but we have Clarence Thomas, Colin Powell, and Condolezza Rice, plus there are black representatives and senators abound. Marney has given articles from different sources showing it. France itself has admitted it and says it needs to be combated.

 

How about this one, from the BBC?

 

Or Time, from about a year ago?

 

At the top, it shows how those comments were made, and his reaction to them.

 

The fact that he wasn't asked to step down after or that there was little outrage over it in France kinda inkeeps with the argument.

 

And, oh yes. The facts. Written by the most unbiased sources, of course. I go to France regularly, and it is nothing like the country your precious articles would lead you to believe it is.

 

It's not just our country giving to the articles. I have a BBC one up there. And so what? Your personal experience is just that: Your own. It doesn't disprove anything that is shown in those articles.

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

And I suppose you've got proof that the guy meant those comments in all seriousness while sober, eh Marney?

Someone I knew had a saying: "The drunk man says what the sober man is thinking."

 

The alcohol may have had something to do w/ him saying that, but I would argue he already harbored those feelings. The alcohol just gave him the "courage" to express it.

[rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0]

Why tell you? This was started by the fact that you dislike France and believe it to have an anti-semitic core and yet disagree that it might just be like America.

 

Because, the fact of the matter is there isn't any anti-black sentiment anymore! You've tried to give second-hand arguments about how there are no African Americans in high places, but we have Clarence Thomas, Colin Powell, and Condolezza Rice, plus there are black representatives and senators abound. Marney has given articles from different sources showing it. France itself has admitted it and says it needs to be combated.

 

How about this one, from the BBC?

 

Or Time, from about a year ago?

 

At the top, it shows how those comments were made, and his reaction to them.

 

The fact that he wasn't asked to step down after or that there was little outrage over it in France kinda inkeeps with the argument.

 

And, oh yes. The facts. Written by the most unbiased sources, of course. I go to France regularly, and it is nothing like the country your precious articles would lead you to believe it is.

 

It's not just our country giving to the articles. I have a BBC one up there. And so what? Your personal experience is just that: Your own. It doesn't disprove anything that is shown in those articles.

The fact that anti-semitism is rising doesn't mean that it is the major problem. From that Time article:

 

But rather than some fresh outburst of virulent anti-Semitism, these acts — which have been widely condemned — are part of a much broader trend of increasing lawlessness and incivility across the whole of French society. These mostly first-generation French citizens find themselves unemployed and shipwrecked between the Arab culture of their parents and a French society that does not accept them. Violence — anti-Semitic and otherwise — is their way of lashing out.

 

You say that there are no anti-black sentiments in America anymore, but race-related crimes are still comitted. The rise in anti-semitism and race related crimes in France have been met with widespread disgust throughout the country.

 

Of those articles you quoted, the Time one said that anti-semitism wasn't as big a problem as Americans believe, the BBC one said thatt the majority of anti-semitic remarks in schools were based on squabbles between Jews and Muslims that was mainly restricted to graffiti and verbal insults and the last one was a sensationalist piece calling on Israel to boycott French goods (which again fails to place his comments in context and admits that Bernard was shocked at the anti-semitic claims). And all those pieces were sensationalist in some way, playing up to the idea of anti-semitism to appear more interesting. And they certainly don't disprove anything I've said.

 

Yes, the government has admitted there is a rise in anti-semitic feelings, but that doesn't mean that France is anti-semitic.

[rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0]

And I suppose you've got proof that the guy meant those comments in all seriousness while sober, eh Marney?

Someone I knew had a saying: "The drunk man says what the sober man is thinking."

 

The alcohol may have had something to do w/ him saying that, but I would argue he already harbored those feelings. The alcohol just gave him the "courage" to express it.

Yes. It may have done.

[Guest MikeSC]

Chave - Look, I know you don't live here in the States, so you don't know (which I fully admit is part of your argument about France), but Mike isn't blowing smoke out his ass here - there is no institutionalized system of racism in American government.  Even the hint of that sort of thing is DEATH to a politician's career.

I fully admit that I know nowhere near as much about life in the U.S. as you guys, and much of what I'm saying is based upon my life in Britain. I appologise for insinuating that the U.S government was rascist, but I still believe a bunch of middle-aged, middle class white guys aren't necessarily gonna be completely open to minorities (although again I obviously have no proof).

 

I am still gonna stick by my point, however, that France is not an anti-semitic country, and the general attitude towards Jewish people is no different from the American attitude towards black people. There may be a few extremist groups, but they are not representative of the country.

 

And, indeed, the main reason I am arguing this point is that I know far more about France and everyday life there than most on the board.

Heck, I believe that most Frenchmen are arrogant, smelly, pretentious slobs. I guess that it now a fact, huh?

 

This insane belief that somebody of one race can't possibly empathize or have anything short of utter disdain for any other race is asinine and shows what a total social vacuum you presently reside in if you believe it to be the case.

-=Mike

...And, on, I don't think that of most Frenchmen. Very few look slobby