HHH's vendetta against RVD

[Guest Loss]

I agree that RVD should have been pushed more. I don't think anyone would deny that. However, if you really want to be objective about this, the decision was made to take RVD out of main events before HHH even returned.

 

Rob had heat for busting open Steve Austin, Kurt Angle, Chris Jericho and Test in a short period of time and Vince also felt that if he was as over as everyone was saying, the ratings would not have stayed the exact same with him in the top match nearly every week in the fall of 2001. I don't know that I agree with that logic, but it was Vince who made the decision to take RVD out of the top spot, not HHH.

 

The idea was briefly teased for RVD to challenge Jericho at the Royal Rumble, but the idea was nixed quickly. If anything, you can say RVD looked strong at the wrong times, as Jericho was putting him over after winning the title, which made no sense.

 

As a worker, I *like* Rob more, but he's behind HHH. He's hardly one of the greatest spot machines ever, as previously mentioned, as Rey Misterio Jr. blows him away in that department. Also, a spot-spot-spot style with no transitions or selling may fool everyone for a little while if the wrestler is in the cruiser division, but that style does not work in heavyweight matches that are generally more story-based. I want Rob to be pushed to the top because he's over and the fans have wanted him there for a long time. But I think there are absolutely NO other arguments besides that one for elevating him, although that's quite a big argument.

 

The feud with HHH was ridiculous, and the mini-feud with HBK and HHH did even more to damage him. I blame that more on bad, unfocused booking than I do HHH, although the fact that HHH has made it clear that he no longer wants to work with him because he doesn't feel safe is what is keeping him out of the spotlight at this point. But it's hardly what got him in his current predicament.

 

Jeff Hardy went through a bad spell, but he is essentially no better or worse than RVD, as previously mentioned. Also, just to play devil's advocate, Jericho carried Jeff Hardy to a match in February that he has not been able to get out of RVD since his initial push in 2001.

 

I should also mention that most of this can be attributed to Vince being out of touch, as 2000 was the year everyone wanted Chris Jericho to break through, and instead Kurt Angle got the push. 2001 was the year everyone wanted Rob Van Dam to break through, and instead Chris Jericho got the push. 2002 was the year everyone wanted Booker T to break through, and instead Brock Lesnar got the push. 2003 has been the year everyone has wanted Eddy Guerrero to break through, but the pushes are going to guys like Cena and Orton instead.

 

So, to the RVD haters, I say he's over and that's reason enough to push him and there's no reason to argue about the other stuff as it relates to his lack of opportunity in WWE. To the RVD supporters, I say that there are good reasons to support an RVD push, but that has nothing to do with his ability to have good matches.

 

That's all.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Admit it though, Jeff did neither AND didn't bump. Jesus it got REALLY bad. Rob can make his opponents moves look REALLY good. He is carryable. Jeff was obviously not. No one on Raw can carry RVD. Eddy, Benoit, Angle, maybe Taker could carry RVD just fine. I think it's fairly obvious not even they could carry Jeff.

Jericho carried Hardy to watchability at No Way Out.

[haVoc 0]

Jeff Hardy was exposed once he started doing single matches. Tag matches were perfect for him. Get the hot tag, do some spots, take a bump, Matt does some work, Jeff goes through table.

[cabbageboy 0]

Let me say this for the last time: RVD's mic skills are not poor. Anyone who has seen ECW would know that. WWE has no clue as to what his whole schtick is. RVD has mentioned this in those ranting interviews he's been doing.

 

I actually think RVD could be insanely over and draw money if they'd let him do violent hardcore matches with a technical side to them (basically what he did in his first 6 months in the WWF).

 

The biggest problem RVD has is that it is VERY noticeable when he is just fucking off. On this last PPV he looked like he didn't give two shits about what was happening. On Raw he had a much better albeit shorter match with Christian where he did looked motivated.

[Guest MikeSC]

RVD is a better worker than Triple H. Unless you are purely going by what you have seen in WWE. If you are going purely by WWE matches, then I'd say they are about even. The RVD/Eddie ladder matches were probably just as good as any Triple H match, that actually had anything to do with Triple H and not his opponent bumping like a lunatic.

 

Look at RVD's ECW and Japan matches. RVD is very capable of doing everything people on here claim he can't, however in the WWE world of 3 min crash tv matches, many elements of a "great" match have to be omitted in order to achieve the bottomline.

If one goes just by WWF/E matches, HHH absolutely OWNS RVD in a shockingly dominant way.

 

If one goes by ALL of their matches, HHH STILL completely owns RVD.

 

RVD in ECW was absolutely nothing of note.

-=Mike

[Guest RollingSambos]

I actually think RVD could be insanely over and draw money if they'd let him do violent hardcore matches with a technical side to them (basically what he did in his first 6 months in the WWF).

 

The biggest problem RVD has is that it is VERY noticeable when he is just fucking off.

 

Exactly.

[Guest MikeSC]

Umm no, Jeff Hardy was a poor man's RVD. His execution was horrible and he fucked just about everything up.

 

RVD when motivated is good. Not the best, not a top 10 worker, but he is plenty good. The Matter of Respect Match was better than the Stretcher match, IMO, and also better than pretty much anything Triple H has done.

 

Also everyone is ignoring the japan stuff. A lot of wrestlers are totally different workers when they go to Japan because over there, different aspects matter to the fans.

Better than almost anything HHH has done?

 

HHH v Foley --- Rumble 2000

HHH v Foley --- NWO 2000

HHH v Rock --- Backlash & Judgment Day 2000

HHH v Jericho --- Fully Loaded

HHH v Angle --- Unforgiven 2K

HHH v Benoit --- No Mercy 2K

HHH v Austin --- NWO 2K1

HHH & Austin v Benoit & Jericho --- RAW

 

Those are just off the top of my head --- and ALL of them annihilate ANY of RVD's matches.

-=Mike

[Guest RollingSambos]

Anything that Trips did in 2000 kills RVD's best matches to date. BUT...RVD can actually still deliver when he's motivated and not half-assing it, whereas Trips can't seem to have a match over *** today if his life depended on it. When you talk about all of the great matches that HHH has had, you are living in the past because he's no longer capable of them. For whatever reason...excessive muscle gain, the quad tear, selfishness, or he's just plain lost a step. When you talk about RVD's great matches against Jeff Hardy, Y2J, and Undertaker, keep in mind that he is still capable of having those matches.

[Guest Loss]

RVD is not having those matches now though. That's the argument there. He's had countless TV matches with Jericho in the past year and none of them have been particularly great. He has bombed in his matches with Kane too.

[Invictus 0]

When you talk about all of the great matches that HHH has had, you are living in the past because he's no longer capable of them.

That's what majority of the Pro-RVD posts have brought up, the past: Japan, ECW, etc.

 

The simple fact of the matter is: RVD was never pushed into the Main Event. Whinning, bringing up reasons and conspiracy theories, etc, helps no one. We may never know 100% why he wasn't pushed, but he wasn't. End of story.

[Guest RollingSambos]

I didn't even think that RVD's ECW run was particularly great. I don't consider the Jerry Lynn matches to be the ***** classics that the ECW mutants claim that they are. They were alright...I give them maybe ***.

[Guest MikeSC]

Anything that Trips did in 2000 kills RVD's best matches to date. BUT...RVD can actually still deliver when he's motivated and not half-assing it, whereas Trips can't seem to have a match over *** today if his life depended on it. When you talk about all of the great matches that HHH has had, you are living in the past because he's no longer capable of them. For whatever reason...excessive muscle gain, the quad tear, selfishness, or he's just plain lost a step. When you talk about RVD's great matches against Jeff Hardy, Y2J, and Undertaker, keep in mind that he is still capable of having those matches.

I never saw these "great" matches with UT. They were, at best, OK. People who discuss the "greatness" of RVD not only live in the past, they live in a fantasy world.

 

And if he's "capable" of great matches, isn't it WORSE that he doesn't deliver them EVER?

-=Mike

[Guest RollingSambos]

Why should he bust his ass and put his body on the line when he knows that all it is going to get him is another match with Rodney Mack? The whole idea of going out there, working your ass off and stealing the show so that the front office has to push you (ala Shawn Michaels) is dead. They don't care how hard you perform. HHH's obscenely selfish politics have killed off any chance of elevation on RAW. HHH is killing off his own career by burying any and all feasible opponents...just so that he can feel like he has a big penis every Monday night.

 

The Undertaker match I was referring to was at Vengeance 2001; it was a hardcore match. It was a great match by RVD standards, but not necessarily a great match period.

[Guest JMA]

I would say RVD is an above average worker. I know that'll get me heat with the anti-RVD crowd, but it's what I believe. Let's rate Hunter and RVD down the line (in their present state).

 

Technical ability: Hunter has Rob beat here. Triple H was one of the best technical workers in North America during his 2000 run. It would be hard to lose all of that ability in just a short time. But to be fair, this is not a big part of RVD's style.

 

Selling: Again, Hunter has Rob beat here. RVD (in the WWE) sells, but doesn't sell for the long term in a lot of his matches.

 

Speed: Here, RVD FAR outclasses the lumbering Triple H. This is actually the category Triple H has most DEGRESSED in, IMO.

 

Overness: RVD wins here. When he's actually put in the main event he can turn a dead crowd into a live one VERY easily. Also, despite the constant depushes and crap ideas they've stuck him with, RVD remains over. Triple H, on the other hand, is far less over than in his 2000 run. One of the reasons being is that fans are starting to resent him for real.

 

Brawling: I'd say Rob wins here as well. And I'm not talking about the forearm shots. RVD, unlike most brawlers, uses his legs instead of his arms. Triple H's current brawling is far too uninspired.

 

Bumping: RVD again. Triple H is far too injury prone to take bumps like he used to. RVD is used to working in a hardcore enviroment and thus can bump very easily without getting seriously hurt.

 

High-Flying: Are you kidding? RVD.

 

Carry ability: Triple H wins this one. Despite his current flaws, Triple H is ABLE to carry people when he wants to (and he doesn't always want to).

 

Those are just my observations. I'd have to say that RVD in his current state outclasses Hunter in his. And while we're on the subject, I'd consider RVD/Lynn to be ****. No more, no less.

[humongous2002 0]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, some people love those highspot matches and there are those that love the normal wrestling matches, you can't never have 2 people agreeing which one is the best. In my eyes if a wrestler or wrestlers have the capacity to get the fans into a match and make them care for it then that makes it a good match without relying on jumping from Titantrons or practically almost killing yourself just for the sake of doing your bump of the year routine.

Now back to the topic of HHH and RVD, it's obvious that HGH felt threatened of loosing his spot to Rob, a guy that got over w/o any fanfare from WWE. There were talks of making RVD into a main eventer when he got over in less than a few weeks, but it seems someone made Vince change his mind. If HHH didn't have any problems with Rob he would've done the right thing by jobbing for him last year, and at least give him the chance to either shine or fail as a main eventer. Now i laugh my ass off at some of the comments the RVD haters come out with for not giving Rob a main event push(As of right now w/o counting his Kane angle, RVD hasn't gotten any type of push period, either as a main eventer or a midcarder, it's like the writers got nothing for him), the RVD haters say that he is too sloppy, he is one dimensional, he is not a ratings draw(even though when he first join WWE the ratings were still 4.0 and up) and his workrate sucks, if anything it sounds to me that they are describing Goldberg, who is by the way, RAW champion. Lesnar is another guy that comes into my mind, he is not a ratings or a buyrate draw , he might have better workrate than Goldberg but with the way he is being push, he hasn't delivered any increases in ratings or ppv buyrates.

RVD has all the tools to be a main eventer, the only thing he is missing is Vince's approval , the fans are dying to see him get treated like the superstar that he is, hopefully Vince realizes that he could make money with Rob by pushing him, not by burying him and pissing off all the RVD fans out there.

 

 

This has to be the worst argument I've ever seen in my entire life. Do you understand the fundamentals of debate? Ok...I'll break it down for you. You stated "Now i laugh my ass off at some of the comments the RVD haters come out with for not giving Rob a main event push(As of right now w/o counting his Kane angle, RVD hasn't gotten any type of push period, either as a main eventer or a midcarder, it's like the writers got nothing for him), the RVD haters say that he is too sloppy, he is one dimensional, he is not a ratings draw(even though when he first join WWE the ratings were still 4.0 and up) and his workrate sucks, if anything it sounds to me that they are describing Goldberg, who is by the way, RAW champion."

 

First and foremost, Goldberg is one of the most hated workers in the company on this forum. So, how does this confirm/deny any of the arguments against RVD? You didn't address the issues at hand in any form. You just showed your blind hate for Goldberg. Make points to prove your opinion. It usually helps if they are facts.

 

(As of right now w/o counting his Kane angle, RVD hasn't gotten any type of push period, either as a main eventer or a midcarder, it's like the writers got nothing for him),

 

You mean his IC Title feud with Chris Benoit wasn't a push? I believe he even went over at a major PPV to bring the Title back to RAW. That constitutes a push in my book. Sure, it's not the top of the card, but there are only so many spots at the top.

 

the RVD haters say that he is too sloppy, he is one dimensional, he is not a ratings draw

 

Well, can you look me in the eyes and tell me you think RVD is a crisp technical worker without laughing? Every RVD match has at LEAST one botched spot. Look at the PPV match with Jericho and Christian. These guys are veterans in the ring, and spots were blown left and right. RVD is sloppy. His style is sloppy. It's the nature of his style. He uses high-spots, and those are "high-risk maneuvers" as the commentators would say. They are just that, the chance of a slip and or miss are high.

 

RVD is one-dimensional. Do you think that RVD could wrestle a match without the top-rope? Does any of his offense (other than the 5-star or split-legged moonsault) look like it could get a pinfall? He's a spot wrestler with little-to-no psychology. He has bad transition moves, and he couldn't sell water in the Sahara.

 

RVD has all the tools to be a main eventer, the only thing he is missing is Vince's approval

 

RVD lacks almost everything it takes to be a main-eventer. His skills on the mic are poor, maybe even worse than Chris Benoit's. Do you think RVD could go to the ring like HHH and cut a 5-10 minute promo? Be honest, there is no way in hell. He has the charisma of Linda MacMahon.

 

His ring work leaves tons to be desired. He has a great finish, and the crowd pops for it, but that doesn't make a match. His matches seem to lack continuity, and psychology is near non-existant. Let's not even get into selling.

 

His character doesn't relate to fans. What made Austin's run as Champ so great? Everyone could relate. We all have some sort of issues with an authority figure, and we wished we could kick the shit out of our boss. Fans related to Austin. Who's gonna relate to RVD? What does RVD represent? Stoners? Drugs aren't cool. Bottom line.

Hey nitwit that's why i said that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, i got my opinion and you got yours. I'm not going to sit here and try to change your mind about RVD, he might not be your favorite but that doesn't take the fact that he is very over with the fans. You talk about my blind hate for Goldberg, but you fail to mention about your blind hate towards RVD,i got nothing against Goldberg but it doesn't make any sense for Vince to push him since he won't be around much longer.But we could argue all day long and i'll be wasting my valuable time, i rather go pick my boogers.

[humongous2002 0]

Fans related to Austin. Who's gonna relate to RVD? What does RVD represent? Stoners? Drugs aren't cool. Bottom line.

Drugs aren't cool????????lol, who's this Nancy Reagan or a pimply teen-age virgin?LMAO.

[Guest Loss]

In defense of RVD, if he is over, that's the ONLY thing that matters. That's it. If the fans want him in main events, he can go out there and do the Macarena in his matches, what you think is going to make money is what you try.

 

RVD has a lot of weaknesses. I agree with that. But main eventing is not based on skill, it's based on popularity.

[Invictus 0]

Fans related to Austin.  Who's gonna relate to RVD?  What does RVD represent?  Stoners?  Drugs aren't cool.  Bottom line.

Drugs aren't cool????????lol, who's this Nancy Reagan or a pimply teen-age virgin?LMAO.

Wow, very relevant and compelling argument you offer there, Humungous. I think you single-handedly just destroyed your and any other RVD fan's credibility. Kudos to you. Kudos.

[humongous2002 0]

In defense of RVD, if he is over, that's the ONLY thing that matters. That's it. If the fans want him in main events, he can go out there and do the Macarena in his matches, what you think is going to make money is what you try.

 

RVD has a lot of weaknesses. I agree with that. But main eventing is not based on skill, it's based on popularity.

You got that right, it's nothing motre than a popularity contest and RVD is overdue in becoming the prom king.

[Guest RollingSambos]

Then what is HGH doing in the main event? He has neither skill nor popularity.

 

 

Oh yeah...he's fucking the billion dollar princess.

[Guest Loss]

"Is RVD better than HHH?", "Is RVD a good worker?" and "Should RVD be in main events?" are three separate arguments with three different answers. We should probably separate them instead of jumbling them all in the same debate.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Fans related to Austin.  Who's gonna relate to RVD?  What does RVD represent?  Stoners?  Drugs aren't cool.  Bottom line.

Drugs aren't cool????????lol, who's this Nancy Reagan or a pimply teen-age virgin?LMAO.

Well, I already covered the drug thing. I think it's a non-issue, but if it isn't then it's a negative. We all know how Vince likes his babyface champs to be smiling heroes everyone can look up or relate to (even Austin was your blue-coller dude fighting the rich and powerful), and despite the more than experimental nature of drugs in the locker room, much of middle America (the ones with D.A.R.E bumper stickers who believes that buying drugs off the street helps Islamic fundamentalists because their TV said so) doesn't share that.

[humongous2002 0]

Fans related to Austin.  Who's gonna relate to RVD?  What does RVD represent?  Stoners?  Drugs aren't cool.  Bottom line.

Drugs aren't cool????????lol, who's this Nancy Reagan or a pimply teen-age virgin?LMAO.

Wow, very relevant and compelling argument you offer there, Humungous. I think you single-handedly just destroyed your and any other RVD fan's credibility. Kudos to you. Kudos.

Thank you Sweedish Chef.

[Guest RollingSambos]

Well, HHH is a walking ad for steroids.

[NoCalMike 0]

I think a lot of the RVD/HHH discussion is stemmed mainly from the fact that Triple H has no business as champion anymore, and everyone's frustrations are running high. Now while I might not feel RVD is a franchise guy that can carry the company to fruition for the next 5 years, I certainly believe he has show enough to get a chance. Even if it is just as a transitional champ. However I would be happy to see RVD get put on hold some more if Jericho was to become champ.

[NoCalMike 0]

Umm no, Jeff Hardy was a poor man's RVD.  His execution was horrible and he fucked just about everything up.

 

RVD when motivated is good.  Not the best, not a top 10 worker, but he is plenty good.  The Matter of Respect Match was better than the Stretcher match, IMO, and also better than pretty much anything Triple H has done.

 

Also everyone is ignoring the japan stuff.  A lot of wrestlers are totally different workers when they go to Japan because over there, different aspects matter to the fans.

Better than almost anything HHH has done?

 

HHH v Foley --- Rumble 2000

HHH v Foley --- NWO 2000

HHH v Rock --- Backlash & Judgment Day 2000

HHH v Jericho --- Fully Loaded

HHH v Angle --- Unforgiven 2K

HHH v Benoit --- No Mercy 2K

HHH v Austin --- NWO 2K1

HHH & Austin v Benoit & Jericho --- RAW

 

Those are just off the top of my head --- and ALL of them annihilate ANY of RVD's matches.

-=Mike

RVD vs. Doug Furnas -- Natural Born Killaz

RVD vs. Bam Bam Bigelow -- House Party '98

RVD vs. Jerry Lynn -- Hardcore Heaven '99

RVD vs. Jerry Lynn -- Living Dangerously '99

RVD vs. Dan Kroffat --All Japan

RVD & Johnny Smith vs. Mitsuharu Misawa & kenta Kobashi -- All Japan

RVD & Johnny Smith vs. Yoshinari Ogawa & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi -- All Japan

RVD & Gary Albright vs. Toshiaki Kawada & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi -- All Japan

 

 

See I can name off a bunch of matches too and just add in......"These are just off the top of my head and are better than ANY thing HHH has done" but unless you have seen every single one of those matches, you can't really say which is better.

 

Oh and as far as the HHH/Foley matches go. Those were just as spotty and as garbage match style as anything RVD has done. The matches were pretty standard and dull until Foley started bumping like a maniac and blading all to hell or falling off a cell, so I am not sure what, if anything that has to do with Triple H other than he was the chosen one to beat Foley upside the head with a Sledgehammer/barbedwire baseball bat etc........

 

If you are tying to claim RVD can't grapple and/or is not good at it, then you just simply don't know what you are talking about. I repeat, watch his Japanese work. There are plenty of websites that sell comp tapes of his japanese matches. Of course I am not expecting you to watch Benoit talent in the ring, but you can watch his japan work and see as plain as day that RVD can adapt to whatever style he has chosen or has BEEN TOLD to work. If WWE wanted him grappling and working a more WWE-main event style, he is plently able to do it. However his style that he is currently using is what is getting him over with the crowd.

Edited September 25, 2003 by NoCalMike

[KTID 0]

Umm no, Jeff Hardy was a poor man's RVD.  His execution was horrible and he fucked just about everything up.

 

RVD when motivated is good.  Not the best, not a top 10 worker, but he is plenty good.  The Matter of Respect Match was better than the Stretcher match, IMO, and also better than pretty much anything Triple H has done.

 

Also everyone is ignoring the japan stuff.  A lot of wrestlers are totally different workers when they go to Japan because over there, different aspects matter to the fans. 

 

Better than almost anything HHH has done?

 

HHH v Foley --- Rumble 2000

HHH v Foley --- NWO 2000

HHH v Rock --- Backlash & Judgment Day 2000

HHH v Jericho --- Fully Loaded

HHH v Angle --- Unforgiven 2K

HHH v Benoit --- No Mercy 2K

HHH v Austin --- NWO 2K1

HHH & Austin v Benoit & Jericho --- RAW

 

Those are just off the top of my head --- and ALL of them annihilate ANY of RVD's matches.

-=Mike

 

 

RVD vs. Doug Furnas -- Natural Born Killaz

RVD vs. Bam Bam Bigelow -- House Party '98

RVD vs. Jerry Lynn -- Hardcore Heaven '99

RVD vs. Jerry Lynn -- Living Dangerously '99

RVD vs. Dan Kroffat --All Japan

RVD & Johnny Smith vs. Mitsuharu Misawa & kenta Kobashi -- All Japan

RVD & Johnny Smith vs. Yoshinari Ogawa & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi -- All Japan

RVD & Gary Albright vs. Toshiaki Kawada & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi -- All Japan

 

 

See I can name off a bunch of matches too and just add in......"These are just off the top of my head and are better than ANY thing HHH has done" but unless you have seen every single one of those matches, you can't really say which is better.

 

 

Here's the list of Rob Van Dam's matches (*SINGLES* matches on *PPV*) that I rate as being "good matches".

 

Vs Jerry Lynn, Living Dangerously '99

Vs Jerry Lynn, Hardcore Heaven '99

Vs Ballz Mahoney, Anarchy Rulz '99

Vs Sabu, Guilty As Charged '00

Vs Jerry Lynn, Hardcore Heaven '00

Vs Scotty Anton, Heat Wave '00

Vs Rhino, Anarchy Rulz '00

Vs Jerry Lynn, Guilty As Charged '01

Vs Jeff Hardy, InVasion

Vs Jeff Hardy, Summerslam '01

Vs Chris Jericho, Unforgiven '01

Vs Eddie Guerrero, Judgement Day '02

Vs Chris Benoit, Summerslam '02

 

 

That's 13 matches!

 

Not even including TV matches, such as the TV title win against Bam Bam Bigelow or the RAW match vs Eddie, or tag team matches, such as w/Sabu vs Hayabusa and Jinsei Shinzaki at Heat Wave '98 or w/Jerry Lynn vs Lance Storm and Justin Credible at Heat Wave '99 (I could also include Japanese matches that I have seen, such as vs Sabu or vs Dan Kroffat).

[El Psycho Diablo 0]

In defense of RVD, if he is over, that's the ONLY thing that matters. That's it. If the fans want him in main events, he can go out there and do the Macarena in his matches, what you think is going to make money is what you try.

 

RVD has a lot of weaknesses. I agree with that. But main eventing is not based on skill, it's based on popularity.

He's got a point, like it or not.

 

Two words. "Hulk Hogan".

 

As far as the whole Austin thing goes, the match quality really didin't matter except to the smarks. All Austin had to do was be Austin, and Stunner somebody. That's really it.

 

..and why does "being biased" for a wrestler matter here on the Benoit Board? Find a better argument than that.

[NoCalMike 0]

Also with ECW's tv matches, you are getting chopped and clipped versions of matches that appear in their entirety on the commercial tapes/dvds so when in reality the match is 15-20 minutes, watching it on TNN would clip it down to 5-8 minutes.

[Guest MikeSC]

Why should he bust his ass and put his body on the line when he knows that all it is going to get him is another match with Rodney Mack? The whole idea of going out there, working your ass off and stealing the show so that the front office has to push you (ala Shawn Michaels) is dead. They don't care how hard you perform. HHH's obscenely selfish politics have killed off any chance of elevation on RAW. HHH is killing off his own career by burying any and all feasible opponents...just so that he can feel like he has a big penis every Monday night.

 

The Undertaker match I was referring to was at Vengeance 2001; it was a hardcore match. It was a great match by RVD standards, but not necessarily a great match period.

So, he should only "try" when he's getting pushed? THAT is a fascinating way to handle talent. Why not put Lance Storm in his same segments? Lord knows Storm in WCW was as big a draw as RVD was in ECW (namely, not enough of one to keep a company afloat) and, while hardly a world-beater, he can out-perform RVD.

 

I haven't seen Matt Hardy dogging it, even though he's (unfairly) languishing in mid-card hell. Jericho hasn't exactly gotten a huge push (will he EVER get a ME push --- even though his run on top has been better than HHH's since Hunter's return) and he isn't mailing it in.

 

Heck, if RVD doesn't STOP mailing in matches, I'd stick him on Heat exclusively until he decided to work to earn his money.

 

God knows RAW's ratings won't suffer much.

-=Mike