Rock's not a movie star yet

[{''({o..o})''} 0]

Looks like Mr Choken spoke my thoughts exactly. Plus it makes it kind of hard to take someone seriously.

[Guest thrall585]

Since it is a wrestling term I understand that it should be used only for wrestling, no more "no sold" now just a plain old "ignored"

[Lightning Flik 0]

Kinda off topic but don't you hate it when people use wrestling terms to describe nonwrestling items(ie No sold)?

Actually, I find it funny.

 

And sad, because I do it also.

 

On topic, I don't think it's fair to say that "oh this movie hasn't drawn numbers and thusly Rock isn't a draw." just because it's opening week. Sheesh, let it be done.

 

Personally, I say it'll get a lot more done on rentals than in theaters, because people who don't follow wrestling are hesistant to accept him as a regular action hero. They'll rent it and like it a heck of a lot and see that he's a pretty good actor.

[Guest Choken One]

Looks like Mr Choken spoke my thoughts exactly. Plus it makes it kind of hard to take someone seriously.

And if it doesn't make sense you have explain it to them and then they just look at you funny and go "I see"...and Walk away slowly...

[Guest thrall585]

I don't think it's fair to say that "oh this movie hasn't drawn numbers and thusly Rock isn't a draw." just because it's opening week. Sheesh, let it be done.

 

It isn't fair to say this movie will disappoint, because there is a chance the majority will ignore that he is from WWE and see it from the great reviews it has been getting. However it is fair to say that the Rock isn't a draw right now because of the opening number. A lot of people think the Rock is a joke because he is from wrestling, and that is why the opening number is so disappointing (it is, it should have made 25+ million).

 

Personally, I say it'll get a lot more done on rentals than in theaters, because people who don't follow wrestling are hesistant to accept him as a regular action hero. They'll rent it and like it a heck of a lot and see that he's a pretty good actor.

 

If people ignore others who say the Rock was great in the film and continue to believe they don't want to see a movie with a wrestling star in it, then it will do disappointing numbers.

[Lightning Flik 0]

How is it that it should've made 25 million? How does one determine what a movie should and shouldn't do? Is there some set value that is the BE ALL, END ALL?

 

Seriously, what determines this?

 

Geezus, everyone's "first" (it's not, but it IS, or whatever) movie doesn't really do that good unless you've got some Godly force behind it.

[Guest thrall585]

How is it that it should've made 25 million? How does one determine what a movie should and shouldn't do? Is there some set value that is the BE ALL, END ALL?

 

Seriously, what determines this?

 

The interest in the movie. It is factors of what genre is the movie, what is it about, who are the actors in it, who is the director, what rating is it (G, PG, PG-13, R), what type of production is it, is it a franchise movie, the budget of the movie, the time of the year the movie will be out, the amount of advertisements for the movie, if the movie gets good reviews, the visuals of the movie, etc.

 

Geezus, everyone's "first" (it's not, but it IS, or whatever) movie doesn't really do that good unless you've got some Godly force behind it.

 

That isn't true. However it is some of the time true that a known star's first movie did worse than his next movies, but still good.

Edited September 28, 2003 by thrall585

[Guest deadbeater]

There was a movie with an extreme amount of hype, when in its first week in wide release, during Martin Luther King Jr, holiday week no less, made $4 million.

 

That movie was Crouching Tiger, Hiddden Dragon.

Well, that movie wasn't intended for wide release, but word of mouth pushed it.

 

So Thrall, I ignore what you are saying for now. This The Rundown is a movie that will build on word of mouth.

Edited September 28, 2003 by deadbeater

[Guest thrall585]

So Thrall, I ignore what you are saying for now. This is a movie that will build on word of mouth.

 

Ignore what? I said that the movie will get a lot of word of the mouth, but if it builds on it will remain to be seen. It boils down to will people ever ignore that Rock is from wrestling.

[Lightning Flik 0]

How is it that it should've made 25 million? How does one determine what a movie should and shouldn't do? Is there some set value that is the BE ALL, END ALL?

 

Seriously, what determines this?

 

The interest in the movie. It is factors of what genre is the movie, what is it about, who are the actors in it, who is the director, what rating is it (G, PG, PG-13, R), is it a hollywood production, is it a franchise movie, the budget of the movie, the amount of advertisements for the movie, if the movie gets good reviews, the visuals of the movie, etc.

Ok. Let's work with that list then. I'll plus or minus it. Depending on how many we end up with as a total, will determine how much BE ALL, END ALL is.

 

Interest in the movie - Pretty good, I'll say. Sure it's not as good as it should've been, but still about on par with other action films

Plus/Minus: +

 

Genre - Actions do make close to 25 million on the starting week. Above 25 million if they've got everything in order.

Plus/Minus: +

 

About - Does it really sound like an A grade action movie? No. It sounds B grade.

Plus/Minus: -

 

Rating - PG-13. Should mean we get quite a lot of kids into watching this movie. Kids = Cash.

Plus/Minus: +

 

Hollyword Production: Universal. Need I add more?

Plus/Minus: +

 

Franchise Movie: Ok. From what I've heard it could be made into a series, however it's only singular, so I can't say it's got anything backing it here.

Plus/Minus: -

 

Budget: Almost 100k. That's pretty fair change for cash. Should bring a lot to the table.

Plus/Minus: +

 

Advertisements: Considering a month of ads is pretty good, I'll give it a plus.

Plus/Minus: +

 

Reviews: Considering the critics loved this movie, more or less...

Plus/Minus: +

 

Visuals: From the ads, I must say that they are high quality and really draw me in.

Plus/Minus: +

 

Director: I don't know his name, but I know the last movie he did sucked badly.

Plus/Minus: -

 

Actors: We've got Rock who's known world over. We've got Scott who's just breaking out, but really only known for comedy so far. And we've got Walkins who's pretty well known, but Cult following. I'd like to give this a +, but half of a good thing, doesn't really draw much. Add in that Rock is a wrestler trying to shed the stigma of "ALTHOUGH I WRESTLER, I CAN ACT", and we've got headaches.

Plus/Minus: -

 

So there we go. Our final tally is

 

Plus = 8

Minus = 4

 

So 8 positives out of the 12 categories given means about 66% which means that it should be pretty successful, but not too so.

 

Or at least going by what you say.

 

So it's only 66% of a good fashioned action movie, then we multiply that into the 25 million and... Technically 16.5 million is what really should be considered good for this movie.

 

Considering it covered 17 million so far, I'd say it did pretty well.

 

This does suggest that I'm right in that it did well for what's it was worth and that it doesn't deserved to be praised as "Rock is a failure".

 

However, it also proves that you are right in that Rock doesn't draw to movies as well as he should and that considering this movie has double the positives than the negatives, it should've done better than it had. Meaning Rock can't draw as greatly as Hollywood probably wanted.

 

Does this mean Rock won't find success in the movie industry? No. It means we' have to wait for a few movies before final judgement. One movie can't make or break him (unless it horribly bombs).

 

And yes, this whole set up is quite makeshift, roughed up, and totally factored in wrong; but in the end, this is really what it comes down to. Just as you said. Sure, some may weigh into the final factors more than others, but this is it. In a nutshell.

[Guest thrall585]

25 million isn't the "perfect movie", 25 million (which was obtained from the positives and negatives on the list) is about what this movie should have made this weekend. For acting it is a positive because they believed the Rock would make the movie draw but the Rock is harming more than helping with his WWE image. So you don't need to times 25 million by .66. Rock can become a major Hollywood star, but he has to shed his wrestling image by leaving WWE(because the majority of people think it is a joke).

Edited September 28, 2003 by thrall585

[Lightning Flik 0]

25 million (which was obtained from the 8 positives and 4 negatives from the list) is about what this movie should have made this weekend. So you don't need to times 25 million by .66.

You said it should've made 25+ million.

 

You set the bar. I was just playing game to that number. That is all.

[Lightning Flik 0]

Rock can become a major Hollywood star, but he has to shed his wrestling image by leaving WWE(because the majority of people think it is a joke).

 

So then WHY the hell are you bitching that he didn't draw the cash? If he's gotta develop his drawing abilities in the movie business, it's he needs more movies under his belt and get more familiarized with what he's dealing with.

 

Does it matter that he's still very slimly apart of the WWE? After a couple of good movies, I doubt it'll matter at all.

[Guest El Satanico]

By a show of hands...who thinks this guy is talking out of his ass?

 

All he's been doing is taking whatever argument we use and twisting it around to use in his argument.

 

Alot of his arguments don't even match up. It's like he's arguing both sides of the argument.

[Lightning Flik 0]

By a show of hands...who thinks this guy is talking out of his ass?

 

All he's been doing is taking whatever argument we use and twisting it around to use in his argument.

 

No. I thought he was being very clear and precise in his points. Albeit, much of it isn't really much of a defense as just brushing aside the facts, but meh.

 

Whatever.

[Guest thrall585]

>>Rock can become a major Hollywood star, but he has to shed his wrestling image by leaving WWE(because the majority of people think it is a joke).

>So then WHY the hell are you bitching that he didn't draw the cash? If he's gotta develop his drawing abilities in the movie business, it's he needs more movies under his belt and get more familiarized with what he's dealing with.

 

Does it matter that he's still very slimly apart of the WWE? After a couple of good movies, I doubt it'll matter at all.

 

The Rock has developed his drawing abilities, he's on like every single talk show, he is backed by Hollywood, and he is seen by viewers of the Rundown as great. The only reason he isn't drawing is because he is from WWE. It doesn't matter if he is vaguely in WWE now. He needs to get away from it because the majority of people think wrestling is a joke, and since Rock is associated in WWE in some way, they think he is a joke and don't care that he is in Hollywood. Once he leaves WWE completely and says that was in his past then some of those people will start to watch the Rock.

Edited September 28, 2003 by thrall585

[Guest thrall585]

No. I thought he was being very clear and precise in his points. Albeit, much of it isn't really much of a defense as just brushing aside the facts, but meh.

 

I'm not brushing aside any facts. The facts are that the Rundown opened up to a very disappointing number, and the only possible reason is because no matter how good the movie is, no matter how good the Rock is in the movie, a lot of people will not see it because they view the Rock as the wrestler from WWE.

[Tony149 0]

Don't forget the first Austin Powers movie didn't do much at the box office, but home video sells made the bulk of the money, spawing two sequels with a fourth on the way.

 

So its way too early to judge Rock's success.

[bob_barron 0]

Austin Powers actually did pretty well-

 

It made 53 million dollars before becoming a phenomenon on video

[Guest thrall585]

Don't forget the first Austin Powers movie didn't do much at the box office, but home video sells made the bulk of the money, spawing two sequels with a fourth on the way.

 

So its way too early to judge Rock's success.

 

If people don't see the Rundown in the theater because they don't want to see a movie starring a wrestler, then they will not rent it when it comes out to videostores. Its not too early to judge the Rock's success. The Rock will become a Hollywood success once he leaves WWE, but until then he will just do alright but disappointing in Hollywood.

Edited September 28, 2003 by thrall585

[cabbageboy 0]

I might actually go the other way here. I will actually throw out an odd theory: The Rock is being hurt not so much because he is perceived as a wrestler, but rather that his actual fanbase (WWE fans) are now viewing him as turning on the wrestling industry.

 

Scorpion King was a fairly big hit due to 1. its connection to the Mummy movies and 2. the Rock's WWF fans going to see it. Well, the Rock has spent less and less time on WWE TV lately and interest in his movies is waning.

[Guest thrall585]

There are more people who don't care about the Rock because he is in wrestling than there are WWE fans turned off by the Rock because he is in Hollywood.

[SamoaRowe 0]

I actually saw The Rundown last night and it was pretty good. If the movie is a success, then I'd say the Rock has made it as a movie star. He was very good in the movie and I'd like to see him take more ambitious parts. If the movie just sinks, then I'd recomend he return to WWE until things maybe get hot again.

[Guest thrall585]

Returning to WWE is the worst thing possible. He will need to leave it so more people will watch his movies.

[Guest goar]

It looks like the early estimate has it at $18.5 for the weekend. Not bad but certainly nowhere near what was predicted coming into the weekend. As far as Rock being a no draw, I would say that is untrue. This number is good enough for him to get more chances, but not good enough for him start naming his own price.

 

The Sweet Home Alabama argument is stupid because NO ONE expected that movie to do what it did. And don't try using the Reese as Hollywood's biggest draw excuse because she wasn't then and isn't now. Legally Blonde II didn't crack $100 million and it was the sequel to a hugely successful movie. Yes she pushed the opening of SHA to an unexpectedly high number but she hasn't shown she can do it consistantly enough to be the biggest female draw. However, she is a bigger draw than the Rock right now. Likewise, you SHOULD expect the Rock to outdraw Denzel because Denzel only recently began drawing. He has only three $20 million openings in his career and those were Titans, Training Day, and John Q.

 

Rundown should do OK next weekend since there is little competition hitting theaters (including Denzel!) and should do fantastic numbers in rentals.

 

This number seems low to me, when I saw the movie it was packed and a friend said the same thing when he saw it yesterday. The Rock must be huge in the Northwest.

[Stephen Joseph 0]

I've read 4 pages of complete bullshit.

 

Thrall. Shut up. You don't know Hollywood, and have yet to build an argument that isn't based largely on conjecture and fails to be logically sound at nearly every step.

 

Your arguments remind me of Prime Guy.

 

There are three sources of income in a movie's timeline. They are Domestic Box Office, International Box Office, and Rental.

 

It is known that American movies make a good chunk of their money in the IBO.

 

The only way you can call it a disappointment is that if the numbers come out lower than what the STUDIO expected them to be. Not your personal guesses, because its plainly obvious you don't have a clue about how expected earnings works.

 

I looked around for cost estimates. Where's your link?

[Guest Super Pissed Smark]

I've read 4 pages of complete bullshit.

 

Yeah, and thank you for contributing to it.

 

The estimated production cost of the film is $85 million. Marketing was $25.

 

http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=week...&id=rundown.htm

 

I'm not quite sure what to make of 18.5. Is it a disappointment? Definitely. Is it a disaster? No, but it got uncomfortably close to one. It hasn't moved him a step closer to where he wants to be and may have moved him a step back. It's looking like a $60 million film now, which has to be a letdown to everyone involved.

 

What went wrong here? Who'll take the blame? Marketing? September? The Rock? The reviews were good, why couldn't it top the openings of Once Upon a Time in Mexico and Underworld? It'll be interesting to see how The Rock and his people respond to this, and I wonder if "The Rock's" days are numbered in Hollywood, and perhaps it's time for Dwayne Johnson to try his luck. He'll definitely get every chance in the world at becoming a big star, since there aren't many guys around with his look and charisma, Hollywood will give him a lot of leeway. Maybe with wrestling in the toilet, his Rock persona will have to go before he can have his big mainstream hit? I dunno, something went wrong here, when Kate Beckinsale is opening a film bigger than you, you clearly have not established dominance.

[Guest EternallyLazy]

A movie making close to $20 million on opening weekend is NOT dissapointing, and I'm quite surprised that some of you are saying this. Maybe it's because we live in the Spiderman era that says a movie is only successful if it makes $30-50 million in it's opening weekend, and that's a shame if you guys have been programmed to think that way. If it had made only $10 million in it's opening weekend, then you may have a point. Or if by chance next week it drops down the list extremely, but lets wait and see before we write this off as a failure.

 

$20 million is quite impressive especially considering the Rundown only had a modest ad campaign.

[Guest EternallyLazy]

why couldn't it top the openings of Once Upon a Time in Mexico and Underworld? It'll be interesting to see how The Rock and his people respond to this, and I wonder if "The Rock's" days are numbered in Hollywood, and perhaps it's time for Dwayne Johnson to try his luck.

Ridiculous. Once Upon a time in mexico is a hit because of Johnny Depp who happens to be an incredibly hot act right now with the amazing success of Pirates.

 

I think it's a little early to start claiming the Rundown and the Rock a failure. Infact, it's pretty fucking stupid. Even if the rundown is a failure, so what? Word is spreading that the Rock is turning out to be pretty damn good, and sooner or later the non wrestling fans will accept that.

[Guest Super Pissed Smark]

Actually, Spider-Man did $114, not 30-50. Spider-Man wipes his ass with what The Rock grosses! $10 million would've been a total fucking disaster.