Attn: Indy folder/Tape Trading People

[Jingus 0]

(sigh)

 

Okay, one at a time:

 

Let's see some emails Jingus. Seriously, if you are going to ban someone, it should be because you have first source information that you have seen with your own eyes. Not "Well, we got some emails that Tim sent to a bunch of tape traders about this." Let's see those emails Tim sent.

 

Sorry, but I don't have them. And I could probably only get one of them. I'll try to, but it does involve talking to people I've never met, who've probably never heard of this site, and don't care about the whole mess, so it won't be instantaneous.

 

If people are tipping you off left and right (don't you love how the number of people with evidence grows with every post) that Tim sent these emails, I would asusme you have or would be able to obtain an email Tim sent to a tape trader. Let's see that.

 

From what I have heard, Tim emailed three people: RF, and two others. One of the others is completely unconnected with the whole mess. The third is the one who passed the information along, and he's asked not to be named.

 

I am 100 percent, swear on my life and my families life, that Tim didn't send any emails. That's why I keep bringing this up. Let's get to the truth Jingus.

 

Why do people keep claiming that I'm lying here? Tim and myself weren't the best of friends, but I'd hardly come up with some bizarre conspiracy theory about nonexistant emails just in a massive plan to get some poor innocent schmuck banned from the board, no matter how much I disliked him. Furthermore, why would I make up all this stuff to frame Tim, when it would only let off the truly guilty party scot-free? The only evidence here points to Tim. No other suspects have been so much as wondered about by anyone else involved. When the only pointed fingers are pointing at the same guy, what else am I supposed to think?

 

Really, what do you have to lose? Nothing if you are right with your sources. Let's see some emails from these sources. Name these other tape traders and how they found out about it. Name this tape trader that contact Patrick McGovern and lets see an email that this tape trader sent McGovern. Hell, let's hear a reason why some random tape trader would contact Patrick McGovern of all people about this. Let's see an email that this tape trader got from RF about Tim being the source. Give a reason why Tim emailed "other people" about the situation and again, let's see some evidence.

 

The guy who Tim emailed, and the tape trader he told, both have stated their desire to remain nameless here. But let me tell you that both of them are guys that have probably never even heard of Tim Cooke before this whole mess, and have no reason to make any of this up.

 

I would post some evidence, but there is no evidence for something that never happened.

 

Like I said, every scrap of information that I have seems to implicate Tim. Rhetorical question: if it wasn't him, who was it? And why would all these people lie about it?

 

I know this may seem trivel to some, but it is an issue of someone's integrity being falsely comprised, so it is important.

 

And if somehow it turns out that I get proof that someone other than Tim did it, than I will freely and gladly retract the banning and make a full apology.

 

Plus I love a good detective case.

 

Me too.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Some of you people need lives- seriously.

 

Jingus, you're a mod, you don't have to justify shit to a couple of losers with too much free time and no sense of perpective. I mean, come on, it's a fucking WRESTLING MESSAGE BOARD. Close this fucking thread.

Wow, this is an unfamiliar sentiment.

 

If we need lives, what are you doing here?

 

So, basically, becoming a mod means you get to do whatever you want including ban people for selfish and/or inexplicable reasons? Got it.

 

I'm glad this forum has people like you to "contribute."

[El Psycho Diablo 0]

This is getting really pathetic on both sides, and boards. Everyone's acting like a bunch of five-year olds at this.

[Guest OSIcon]

Here's your "key source" Patrick McGovern earlier on in the day at Spider Twist:

 

I dunno if Tim actually mailed Feinstein et al about the link, don't care much either way.

 

But Wait...if McGovern is the "source" who got the info from a tape trader who got it from (again, presumably RF since nobody has said anything about where the tape trader heard it from), then wouldn't he know if Tim email Feinstein?

 

Which one is it?

 

Doesn't sound like a credible source to me.

 

Halfway down the page is Pat's post:

 

http://www.airraidcrash.com/spidertwist/vi...r=asc&start=175

[Guest Black Tiger]

Why bother with rules? Why not ban anyone you dislike? It worked with Coey, didn't it?

I have to disagree with you on that one Ricky. I did agree with what Coey got banned for. Unless I'm mistaken Dames banned him for making comments that a bunch of TSM posters should have been in the twin towers on 9/11/01 so in that respect I can understand why Dames banned him.

 

Tim's ban on the other hand is a crock, Tim even PM'd me on Spider Twist to thank me for defending him. Anyone who remembers when Coey/Tim/Wolverine were in the puroresu folder knows that Tim and I always didn't get along either, so don't think that it's just me sticking up for "my boys"

[Jingus 0]

Though the "You're in charge, do what you want" is a 5-star argument. Just call him Jingus-McMahon. Or even better Adolf Jingus 

 

Name calling. Great. How does this help your case?

 

And while I'm at it, is there anything in the rules and regulations that prohibits what Tim did?

 

There aren't rules and regulations against hacking the board or calling up Dames and leaving death threats on his voice mail, but I'm sure those are bannable offenses too. The rules are a list of Things Not To Do, not an all-encompassing exclusive list of the only things a poster ever might get in trouble for.

 

If not, you're basically saying "We don't have to adhere to those rules," which pretty much makes them worthless, which pretty much undermines any credibility this website could wish to obtain (not that a website with a folder *devoted* to "flaming" could have that much credibility to begin with).

 

If the website has so little credibility, then why did you accept a moderating position here for several months?

 

Why bother with rules? Why not ban anyone you dislike? It worked with Coey, didn't it?

 

That's a blatant lie, Ricky. Dames banned Chris because he made some comment about wishing that we all had been in the WTC on 9/11. That's about as foul a comment as you can make, especially considering that Dames witnessed the disaster live and in person, and still has nightmares about it to this day. The comment was way out of line, and anyone who said that would've been banned.

[MrRant 0]

Adolf Jingus is pretty sweet.

[Guest OSIcon]

Sorry, but I don't have them. And I could probably only get one of them. I'll try to, but it does involve talking to people I've never met, who've probably never heard of this site, and don't care about the whole mess, so it won't be instantaneous.

 

So you are banning him based on what other people have told you? Yea, that's fair. I know he didn't do it. Does that count as evidence? Because really, that's the only "evidence" you have now.

 

From what I have heard, Tim emailed three people: RF, and two others. One of the others is completely unconnected with the whole mess. The third is the one who passed the information along, and he's asked not to be named.

 

So no McGovern now? A few posts ago, Patrick McGovern was the one who sent it along to Jay after he got info from a tape dealer. Now he is out of the eqaution and there is another namless guy.

 

I am having trouble keeping up with these changes.

 

Why do people keep claiming that I'm lying here? Tim and myself weren't the best of friends, but I'd hardly come up with some bizarre conspiracy theory about nonexistant emails just in a massive plan to get some poor innocent schmuck banned from the board, no matter how much I disliked him. Furthermore, why would I make up all this stuff to frame Tim, when it would only let off the truly guilty party scot-free? The only evidence here points to Tim. No other suspects have been so much as wondered about by anyone else involved. When the only pointed fingers are pointing at the same guy, what else am I supposed to think?

 

I'm not going to present theories as to how this false story got started, because I honestly don't know. Though I do think you may not be lying Jingus. There is the possibility that you are just taking people's word for it and that person passing along the info. is lying. With Patick McGovern's bizzare hatred for Tim that can be seen elsewhere on this board and others, it does make you wonder that if he is indeed the one passing along the info (and not this new "unknown" guy) that he could be working all of this to get at Tim. Sure it seems petty, but he has gone out of his way to flame Tim before for no reason, so why not this?

 

So Jingus, I am not accusing you of lying exactly. Someone maybe lying to you....

 

The guy who Tim emailed, and the tape trader he told, both have stated their desire to remain nameless here. But let me tell you that both of them are guys that have probably never even heard of Tim Cooke before this whole mess, and have no reason to make any of this up.

 

You don't have to answer anything else in this post if you asnwer this for me please:

 

Did you get emails from these tape traders? Did you see emails form these tape traders? My guess is "No" since you claim to not have any of them with you. So then you are taking the word of a third part source who was originally McGovern and is now Mr. Protected Indentity. How do you know McGovern isn't lying to you? Sure seems to hate Tim. Or what about this new guy who has popped up?

 

Like I said, every scrap of information that I have seems to implicate Tim. Rhetorical question: if it wasn't him, who was it? And why would all these people lie about it?

 

That's irrelevant. I am saying Tim didn't do it, not trying to find who did do it. I don't know who did...just that it wasn' Tim.

 

Name calling. Great. How does this help your case?

 

It was a lighthearted quip. Besides, I could say the same thing. McGovern's oibvious dislike for Tim doesn't make him that credible, does it?

[Guest Black Tiger]

Just so you guys know, Patrick McGovern at ichibanpuroresu.com is the other guy backing this up. I'd heard it from Pat first, who heard it from a tape dealer

 

Pat showed up and Spider Twist and here's what he had to say:

 

Given the circumstances, I think Jay had the reason to be skeptical; he already disliked Tim and suspected him and looked for a reason to ban. I dunno if Tim actually mailed Feinstein et al about the link, don't care much either way, but this isn't the kind of thing to seethe and hate over for months on end.

 

Trust me, the other source of information exists. But I haven't talked to him myself, it's been through other parties, so I don't want to name him right now until I get the okay. No, he's not affiliated with this website; yes, he is someone you've heard of. (And no, it's not Bob Barnett, though he was asked for advice in this matter.)

 

Wouldn't you know that Barnett e-mailed Tim as well about this whole thing. With TSM asking for advice and all.

 

"They said some incomprehensible stuff and wanted to give me a Smart Mark Board No Thanks"

 

I give up: WHO IS THE HIGHER POWER?

[Guest OSIcon]

More fun with McGovern from Spider Twist:

 

I have no love for TSM. I'm friends with two of the writers. I heard about the whole situation from Jay...and I don't get WHY it's such a big fucking deal on any side. There are greater evils, move on.

 

I came here for no reason other than defend myself from being a 'dumb prick'. And defend my shitty Georgia indies.

 

So he is THE source. Then he is phased out over here and there is another source who is not named. Then McGovern himself says he doesn't like the site and is not a source.

 

If we are going to make something up, lets at least make sure everyone has the story straight next time. This is getting silly...

[Guest RickyChosyu]

And while I'm at it, is there anything in the rules and regulations that prohibits what Tim did?

 

There aren't rules and regulations against hacking the board or calling up Dames and leaving death threats on his voice mail, but I'm sure those are bannable offenses too. The rules are a list of Things Not To Do, not an all-encompassing exclusive list of the only things a poster ever might get in trouble for.

Don't know about leaving death threats on Dames' voicemail, but I think there ought to be a rule against hacking. Seems resonable enough to me.

 

As for the "it's more a list of guidlines than rules" arguement, what's the point of having the rules if everything is left up to the decisions of the mods?

 

Contrary to popular belief, rules are meant to be followed. If mods can ban someone for things not specified in the rules, than the rules themselves are basically meaningless.

 

If the website has so little credibility, then why did you accept a moderating position here for several months?

 

To attempt to establish order to a place that had very little.

 

Why bother with rules? Why not ban anyone you dislike? It worked with Coey, didn't it?

 

That's a blatant lie, Ricky. Dames banned Chris because he made some comment about wishing that we all had been in the WTC on 9/11. That's about as foul a comment as you can make, especially considering that Dames witnessed the disaster live and in person, and still has nightmares about it to this day. The comment was way out of line, and anyone who said that would've been banned.

 

Honestly, do you think Chris would have lasted very much longer with the way things were going? It was obvious that you and Dames didn't like him and wanted him gone, so what use would it have been to prolong the inevitable? He knew he wouldn't be around much longer, so, in typical Coey fashion, he went out with a bang.

 

Am I wrong in saying that you were trying to get him banned before the 9/11 comment? I seem to remember you arguing for it at least once before he got himself banned.

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

Oh the DRAMA~!

[Jingus 0]

christ...

 

(big breath)

 

Okay, this is the way I heard it happened:

 

Tim -> guy he emailed -> tape trader -> Patrick -> Jay -> me -> Dames

 

And if I heard correctly, Jay talked to the tape trader too and got confirmation.

 

Weird thing: I don't know who actually banned Tim. Wasn't me, whoever did it hasn't said so yet.

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

Man, just stand by your guns, if he's banned - he's banned. End of story.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

My Jingus=Bush post/joke got no-sold. NO SOLD~!

 

Must I make myself clearer?

[Jingus 0]

As for the "it's more a list of guidlines than rules" arguement, what's the point of having the rules if everything is left up to the decisions of the mods?

 

Contrary to popular belief, rules are meant to be followed. If mods can ban someone for things not specified in the rules, than the rules themselves are basically meaningless.

One more time, more slowly: the rules is a list of things not to do. It tells you several things you can be banned for. However, it is not an inexhaustible list of every single possible thing one could ever do wrong. Such a list is impossible to write, by definition.

 

Honestly, do you think Chris would have lasted very much longer with the way things were going? It was obvious that you and Dames didn't like him and wanted him gone, so what use would it have been to prolong the inevitable? He knew he wouldn't be around much longer, so, in typical Coey fashion, he went out with a bang.

 

Am I wrong in saying that you were trying to get him banned before the 9/11 comment? I seem to remember you arguing for it at least once before he got himself banned.

 

Yes, you are wrong. I hated how he acted here, but I was the only one with a grudge; Dames didn't care. I threatened him with banning that one time I went off on him, but was told very firmly that Chris hadn't done anything ban-worthy. Then he made an incredibly tasteless comment that was a combination of wishing death on posters and making light of 9/11, and he was banned.

 

More fun with McGovern from Spider Twist:

 

I wouldn't know anything about Spider Twist, seeing as how I've been IP banned from even looking at the message boards there, despite having never done (or even been accused of doing, unlike Tim) anything wrong there.

[Guest Black Tiger]

Jingus, you supposedly got this information from a 7th hand source, with enough potential hearsay to make Ben Stone AND Jack McCoy afraid to go into a court room. Now you "suddenly" remember you didn't ban him?

 

Kill this thread before it gets any more ridiculous

[Guest Jay Z. Hollywood]

I was covering for Pat by not revealing him, same with that post on that board he made, at my request. That's it. He told me, if I was getting in some trouble about it- that he doesn't give two shits about his "net rep" and really no one should.

 

He's my source. The end.

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

Jingus, you supposedly got this information from a 7th hand source, with enough potential hearsay to make Ben Stone AND Jack McCoy afraid to go into a court room. Now you "suddenly" remember you didn't ban him?

 

Kill this thread before it gets any more ridiculous

Man, shut the fuck up. Killing threads is downright ridiculous. If you don't like it, leave...don't tell them to kill it for your sake.

[Jingus 0]

Man, just stand by your guns, if he's banned - he's banned. End of story.

Weird to hear that coming from you of all people, Bank.

 

Now you "suddenly" remember you didn't ban him?

 

Suddenly? I never once claimed that I banned him. I never said who did. That's because I didn't know. Check the threads yourself.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

wishing death on posters

Me: I'll fucking kill you!

 

Jingus: You're gonna kill me?

 

Me: No I'm just kidding

 

 

Just don't kick my dog ever again....or else

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

Man, just stand by your guns, if he's banned - he's banned.  End of story.

Weird to hear that coming from you of all people, Bank.

 

Well in this case it just makes the mods seem like a bunch of pussies.

[Guest OSIcon]

Its nice to know that anyone hear can send along some "information" they got that would be cause for a banning, and that info. is taken as gospel.

 

I am almost 100 percent positive that this is all McGovern. It just seems a *tad* odd to me that you have this guy who doesn't like Tim at all and somehow this information that leads to Tim getting banned/accused of this falls into his lap.

 

I mean, really, any other person and you have at least a little credibility in believing him. This is just way to convenient.

 

Shooter Jay says that Patrick is "My Sourcce. The End." That would indicate to me that he never talked to the tape trader himself (like Jingus said he may have). If he did, by all means say so and at least give Tim the courtesy of knowing who he says emailed him. Not showing evidence or citing sources certainly doesn't make stories more believable. If Shooter Jay's only source is McGovern, as he seems to be saying, then I find that laughable...I really do.

 

I had no idea that Patrick McGovern was such an upstanding guy that he can just say he got an email from a tape trader that got an email from "The guy Tim emailed" without any evidence and its taken as gospel. I don't think my word carries that much weight within my own family, let alone anywhere else. I'm sure McGovern is such a great guy though, that we don't need to check all of his sources, we'll just believe him.

 

If I was a moderator, I would probably have a little more consideration then to just ban somebody because "Patrick McGovern heard from a tape dealer who heard from "The guy Tim emailed"." Not to mention that Patrick has a big gripe against Tim. But why think about those things when you can just ban him based on fourth-source info especially when your most direct source is a guy who has been all over Tim before (including here) for nothing? I guess its just easier to ban and not think about that stuff.

 

It wouldn't take much Jingus to get to the bottom of this. Have McGovern send along these emails. Check into if they are legit. Check out why the "Guy Who Tim Emailed" (could we at least get a little more specific please) emailed the "tape trader". Find out why that guy emailed McGovern. You could probably get 2/3's of that info. from McGovern himself. One email. Not that hard.

 

To answer one of your earlier questions: You said the two people in this "source chain" before McGovern don't know Tim and wouldn't have a reason to make it up. Did you ever think for a moment that, yes, maybe they didn't make it up. In fact, maybe they didn't know at all. Maybe....just maybe...it all started with McGovern, not two other sources.

 

A little thinking...a little evidence...not that hard.

[Jingus 0]

Christ, I give up. I didn't ban Tim, and I certainly didn't know that he and McGovern had any kind of beef, that was news to me. I'm going to bed now, I'll try to sort out all this shit tomorrow.

 

And OS, since you're apparently in with Tim's crew, can you answer me two questions in the meanwhile?

 

1. Why was I IP-banned from spidertwist? (If it's just cuz Chris didn't like me when he was here, that's pretty weak.)

 

2. Why are you so certain that Tim did not do any of this?

[Guest Doyo]

Is any of this going to be on ppv??

 

 

[{''({o..o})''} 0]

This thread makes baby Jesus cry. And do you know what else makes baby Jesus cry?

[Guest Black Tiger]

1. Why was I IP-banned from spidertwist? (If it's just cuz Chris didn't like me when he was here, that's pretty weak.)

Well according to Chris himself:

 

Jingus whinging because I banned him from here. To anyone wondering - I make and unmake all the rules here and ban whomever I want. I'm surprised it didn't set off alarm warnings, considering I don't have access to any IPs from TSM. But it wasn't *that* hard to skim through my logs and notice the one that said "Middle Tennessee State U."

[Guest OSIcon]

1.) Honestly, I just lurk at Spider Twist and have never had interaction with Coey. He answered the question himself on his board though. Basically, its his board and he creates (and gets rid of) the rules as he sees fit and makes no bones about it. I know your tirade on him a while back and you guys butting heads when he posted here (leading to his banning) probably didn't endear yourself to him so much. So he wanted to ban you and did. I don't want to speak for him but thats the impression I get,

 

2.) I am so sure simply because I believe him and there is no hard evidence against him. Just "he said, she said". I've known him basically my whole life, so I don't see why he would lie to me about it. In fact, if he had sent an email, I would probably be the first to know and I would have told him that was dumb or to not do it (because thats what I think). Its completely against the way he operates on the internet and elsewhere - - as even people from this board have noticed.

 

By the way....I'll even admit this thread is a lot more posting and lot more stuff then I would like. I am keeping on top of it and urging Jingus to actually get some facts because I know they are wrong and occassionaly getting to the bottom of something like this is wrong. I don't know if Tim would post here again or not if he was unbanned....I really am not concerned with finding out so he is unbanned. Its more just the hope that you all will be proven wrong, because you are. That will be satisfying.

[MrRant 0]

But WHO shot Mr. Burns?

 

WHO DAMMIT?!

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

You're all idiots for getting too into this.

 

Jingus: Why do you want to be at his board?

 

Black Tiger: Why are you Coey's bitch? Why post only to do his dirty laundry? Bitch.

 

OSIcon: Everyone is gonna get pissed at you because you are playing the fence like a little chicken shit. If you don't want anyone to say shit to you, stay outta their business.

 

Mr Rant: Maggie.

 

Banky: I'll tell you all off because I'm the coolest.