Alright...

[Justice 0]

Hey yo, people. After the failure of Empire Feds, I kinda went back to eWPlanet to both promote ourselves and look for interesting things we might want to get involved in. Well, searching through a bunch of free agent posts I found another I-Fed: Revolution Wrestling Network. Unlike Empire Feds, the place looks pretty well organized, and the only way I see this failing is because of the feds inside it dying off. Here's the website for your view pleasure:

 

Revolution Wrestling Network

 

So what is their ratings system? Is it drawn out of a hat like Empire Feds? Does it include wacky forum activity ratings and other such shit?

 

Ratings Guide

 

Actually, no. They just judge it on how good the show itself looks, how cleanly it flows, and how well it is written. No RPs, no need to post on the forums all day and night, just how well we do on the shows. Of course it wouldn't hurt to be active on the forums, it's not required. Another interesting thing they have:

 

iCash

 

A cash system. Sort of like a way to see how well you are doing, really, and another way of luring people away from other feds. It's a neat little thing, though I dunno if it'll actually get implimented in the whole scheme of things.

 

So, what do we need?

 

A NEW WEBSITE. Yes, I know it's been a while since I've said this, but Atlas has dun disappeared, leaving our website woefully behind. Plus the fact that it could probably be set up far better (Aesthetically speaking) than it is right now. So hopefully someone will get their keisters into gear and finish dis thing up . That's pretty much all we need to be the complete package for this thing.

 

Any comments, questions, death threats, letter bombs, or love notes?

[Kaertos 0]

Hear that? That's the sound a can of worms being opened makes...

 

I think this could be a good idea, but we will have to see who has the time to keep the web site up to date.

[HVilleThugg 0]

Lord knows that I sure don't...and I don't think Spiktlas does...perhaps the new site will be done soon. I would have time to keep up with it if I didn't have to edit the HTML.

 

Da "damn needy website" H

[TheBostonStrangler 0]

I'd be willing to do some help with the website, but i don't know any coding at all, so I dunno how much help I'd be.

[Kaertos 0]

What we need (and God knows I don't know how to do it) is what we used to call "version 2.0" of the site. Something written in a real language that woud allow easy updates so everything isn't hard-coded every single time.

 

I know work on this stalled, and I don't remember who was involved, but I think the talent is there.

 

The easier we make it to update, the better the site will be.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

I'd help out, but I don't trust Judge anymore so he's probably lying right now.

[Justice 0]

I'd help out, but I don't trust Judge anymore so he's probably lying right now.

Awww, come on, Cast. That was one time, man. I promise this is real. And hey, I'll walk around with a limp for ya from now on.

 

*Limps away*

[HVilleThugg 0]

Well, Spike and I were mainting the current site while Johnny D was working on version 2. Atlas and I have obviously slacked off...due to lack of time...but I'm not sure where we are in the development of version 2.

 

We'll have to wait for Johnny to chime in...

 

Da "no talk about me being a lazy bastard...everyone already knows it" H

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

Not being a shithead, my answer is that version 2.0 was coded well, but we can do far better by just using Moveable Type or something and make the front page (and subsequently others) so that it functions like a blog. I can put up cards and stuff on the site, so that's not a problem. People just need to stop being so fucking lazy; we can use any number of ways to make it easy to update, including making the front page function as a private message board for the people who are allowed to post there. That's easy shit.

[HVilleThugg 0]

I suggested Moveable Type a long time ago when the site was on my server, but no one liked the idea of making it like a blog. Also, the space we use now doesn't have MT installed....and we don't have perms to install it. However, there are things we can do to make it easy to update. If I have time this week, I can probably whip some CF together to handle easier updating of the homepage with shows and such. I can't promise it...but if...by chance...I had Storm off from writing a match, I can probably do it.

 

And I'm in the same boat as Cast...if it was easier to update and I didn't have to use Dreamweaver and update the HTML, then I could do it as well.

 

Here's what I'll try to put together...basic updating news, card, and results...we won't have any archives or anything like that, but it's a start. Unless Johnny has a better idea...

 

Da "can't believe he's agreeing to do this" H

[Secret Agent 0]

Yeah...

 

Well I was working on it until I needed to spend most of my free time writting my storyline. Then to top that off, my buddies from TCLN.com asked me to help with finishing the coding for their Halo league.

 

That's where I have been up to with that one. Yeah I've slacked and what not, and made about 76 different templates for it, and changed it yet again after finding one semi-z-approved.

 

My biggest problem is getting folks to tell me what they would actually use on a site like this. I have just been winging it basically.

[HVilleThugg 0]

Well JOhnny...in order to hold us over until you're done with version 2, I am going to whip together a couple quick CF pages to make it easy to update the current site. Outcast has agreed to make the regular updates. The problem is...

 

I tried to login to create a few new tables in the DB, but I couldn't login. Is there anything wrong? I think I might have deleted my drivers when my eval version of the client software expired. I'm gonna try more today...but, nonetheless, I'm gonna do that so we can at least update this site more.

 

No offense to Z, but why are you submitting designs to him for approval? I'm wondering why, if you're submitting them to anyone, you're not submitting them to me, since I am kind of the head of this whole web initiative (that and the fact that I do this for a living). I'm sure Z knows his shit...so I'm not worried...but if you HAVE to submit to someone, I think it should be me...or King. If you're just trying to get opinions or something, why not submit for the whole fed to approve, not just Z. I'm just wondering, that's all...

 

Moving along...I has occurred to me that part of the reason this isn't done yet is like you said, you don't know what people want. Here's what we need to do.

 

1) First, we must come up with a spec to define end-user functionality. For this version, we need to keep things small and not try to bring in too much functionality to start with. The idea is to start with some base functionality (dynamic content for the homepage, roster, etc) and then scale up by adding more complex functionality (user added stats, polls, etc) after we roll out the first build. It's called versioning...we'll start with 2.0, which includes our base set. ANd each time we roll out more functionality, it'll got to 2.1, 2.2, etc. However, it's going to be hard to proceed without a spec. To do this, you and I, or anyone else...or just you...should just sit down and hammer out what functionality we want to implement. What will the end-user do on the site...how will they do it? Don't wait for CC to come and say, this is what we want...having worked in software and web development for some time, I have found that if you want for the client to tell you everything they want, it'll be a year or more before you start. What you do, and what our project managers do here at work, is we present a spec, and they can say yay or nay or suggest other things. That's how you get the ball rolling with this. ANd that's what I suggest you do in this case. Put together a quick document, outlining the functionality of the site along with the layout, and submit it to CC for approval. I will make sure it gets pushed through, or, I will approve it myself (King and Mark trust my judgement in these areas).

 

Also, might I suggest getting together with Outcast for help with determining the layout and functionality. He's been around many a e-fed site and from talking to him the other day, knows his shit. If you have any technical questions, you can always contact me if you need to.

 

Da "just some advice from a guy who deals with this kind of crap for a living" H

 

PS - If anyone calls me a designer or a webmaster or anything like that, I will kill them. My official title is Senior Flash/Interactive Programmer. The key word there is "PROGRAMMER"...and don't you forget it.

[Kaertos 0]

From the client (CC) perspective, here is what we ultimately want.

 

- Professional looking front page that advertises who we are and makes it easy to navigate the site for both newbies and vets.

 

- ease of updating - Ideally, I would like to take the card I write in Notebook (that I paste into the post) and paste it into a dialogue box on the website. Same goes for title belts, schedule and "Commisioner's Notes". Give us the ability to write it offline and paste it in without having to worry about coding it.

 

- Updated Rosters - Give everyone in the Fed a way to submit and update their stats on the webpage. In addition, a way for someone on the admin side to edit the roster and get rid of people who are gone.

 

- Image repository - A place images can be uploaded and accessed for sigs, in-show graphics and such. These would be the "official" graphics and approved by someone in CC.

 

- Joining Info should be re-written and made easier to do online. Maybe a fill-in form for newbies to use that could be sent to the appropriate person. Make it more of an impulse decision to send the stats in. Once they are in the door, we have them.

 

- Search engine - The title histories in particular should be done in such a way as to be searchable. I may be able to help here as I have recently started work on a Microsoft Access Database holding all of the title data, which would make it easier to sort and pull interesting data out of. I am doing this for myself, but would be happy to share.

 

- Finally, remember that this will be the most visible portion of our on-line presence. It should be as professional and dynamic as possible, while keeping in mind that not everyone has a broadband connection and a 1024x768 screen. Navigation and ease of browsing hould be a priority, as should putting our logo and links to join everywhere.

 

These are all long term goals, and overall I think they are useable. If you need someone to look at your work in a more "official" (watever that means around here) capacity, I would be happy to do so. Also, I would be happy to design any logo type graphics you need. Let me know.

 

Oh... one other thing. It needs to be programmer / developer independent. I can see a day when the people who do the website aren't around anymore. There should be an easy way to pass the keys on to the next generation, so to speak.

[HVilleThugg 0]

Thanks Mark...now let me comment on what you've said.

 

I think we should break this functionality out into phases. Some of it is rather complicated, and could take months to implement. I'd like to take some of that and make it phase 1 development, and then take the rest and roll it into a second phase. That way, we can roll out the new design and layout in a month or so, and then add the more complex functionality later.

 

So, here's what I think about each point you made...

 

- Professional looking front page that advertises who we are and makes it easy to navigate the site for both newbies and vets.

 

Phase 1. Definitely...this is where the design of the layout comes into play.

 

- ease of updating - Ideally, I would like to take the card I write in Notebook (that I paste into the post) and paste it into a dialogue box on the website. Same goes for title belts, schedule and "Commisioner's Notes". Give us the ability to write it offline and paste it in without having to worry about coding it.

 

Pre-Phase 1. As soon as I can find my damn database drivers, I'm going to set up a quick form for a person to enter HTML and text for the card to update the website. You would have to enter standard HTML as you would like it to look, complete with <p> tags for paragraphs and the like. This is merely so that the updates aren't limited to me and Atlas and Johnny, and it's still easier than going into the HTML and finding the right place to edit, and all the jazz. To facilitate this, the card will be on a separate page now, linked from the homepage through a banner for the show. It's just easier that way.

 

Phase 1. Card updates, title holders, schedule, commissioner notes should all be here in this phase. As far as entering the same data you enter in the board post...this could be more difficult than you think. The board allows for tags like bold, italic, etc...while these are standard HTML formatting options, they are not written as standard HTML tags. We'll need to actually parse your input text to pull out the tags and convert them to HTML tags. While this can be done, it's not the most pleasant experience and it's not very easy to do with ColdFusion. Might I suggest allowing standard HTML tags instead of the board specific tags. This will allow us to make this a phase one deliverable, since it is very easy to take that text and store it in the DB as is, and then push it into the dynamic content area as HTML. With the tags you can use on the board, it should be very easy for the person updating to convert to HTML since they are all basic formatting tags.

 

- Updated Rosters - Give everyone in the Fed a way to submit and update their stats on the webpage. In addition, a way for someone on the admin side to edit the roster and get rid of people who are gone.

 

Phase 2. This is a great idea...but I think we should reserve it for phase 2. It's not SUPER difficult, but it doesn't involve a good deal of coding, mostly to make sure people enter data correctly, as well as coming up with a form so that all stats look 99% uniform. I think this was in our plans already. I think for the initial roll out, the idea is to get something professional and nice for new people visiting the site, and then work towards adding functionality for the current members of the fed. Also, from what I've experienced in working with the site, the boards here are still the primary forum for people already in the fed. People don't visit the site often and use it. Perhaps they'll use it more when that functionality is available, but we're not losing anything by not having it for the first phase. We can just leave the stats on the boards for the time being.

 

- Image repository - A place images can be uploaded and accessed for sigs, in-show graphics and such. These would be the "official" graphics and approved by someone in CC.

 

Phase 1. The repository would exist for phase one, and people could go to the site to find the URL for the image they want. These would be uploaded by the administrator who has FTP access to the server. Uploading and approving would be later.

 

Phase 2. Uploading and approval process. Users would be able to upload images and webmasters and admins would be able to approve or delete images, at which point, they would appear in the list of hosted images available from the site.

 

- Joining Info should be re-written and made easier to do online. Maybe a fill-in form for newbies to use that could be sent to the appropriate person. Make it more of an impulse decision to send the stats in. Once they are in the door, we have them.

 

Phase 1. The Joining info should be rewritten for the rollout of phase one, but it would still be static, meaning that the only way to update it would be to go into the HTML and update it manually. This is not something that changes very often, so there's no need to make easy updating of the Joining Info a priority. Adding a quick form for new users to send, via email, to the screener expressing interest in the fed could work here, but it wouldn't allow them to send stats yet.

 

Phase 2. Here's the thing...sending PMs to people is VERY HARD to do from outside the boards (i.e. through a form on our website). Now, if the screener wants to do it over email, that's very easy. However, for phase 2, we could set up a form for users to fill out stats and send them through email to the screener. I agree that allowing people to just send in stats as a impulse would increase the number of people trying to get in here...because it wouldn't require going over to some other site and setting up an account and PMing someone who they already forgot the name of.

 

- Search engine - The title histories in particular should be done in such a way as to be searchable. I may be able to help here as I have recently started work on a Microsoft Access Database holding all of the title data, which would make it easier to sort and pull interesting data out of. I am doing this for myself, but would be happy to share.

 

Phase 1 or 2. A little while back, I started development of an archive application for the fed. It only archived matches and promos, but I intended to extend it to more. I didn't finish it, but it's pretty far along, so that I could, in theory, roll it out with phase 1, and extend it in phase 2. It was a system for people to log in, and submit matches and promos for archiving. It also allowed people to search the archives for matches, promos, people, etc. So, we already have some of this developed.

 

- Finally, remember that this will be the most visible portion of our on-line presence. It should be as professional and dynamic as possible, while keeping in mind that not everyone has a broadband connection and a 1024x768 screen. Navigation and ease of browsing hould be a priority, as should putting our logo and links to join everywhere.

 

Of course...standard best practices is to work with 800x600 resolution to accommodate the most people. Also, keeping file sizes small is a must...and I'm a nut when it comes to this. Any image over 15k is unusable in my book.

 

Da "we're moving right along here" H

[Kaertos 0]

And my response...

 

Break it down into whatever phases you have to to make it work.

 

Most of what you said above makes perfect sense, so I don't have a lot to add. What I do have to say will follow below:

 

As far as entering the same data you enter in the board post...this could be more difficult than you think.

 

I wasn't expecting, and frankly don't care, if the mark-ups are the same as the board. I usually mark-up the cards after they are written anyways. All I meant was that it would be far easier to input if I didn't have to type it twice.

 

About joining - I honestly hadn't thought about updating the joining info online as we don't need to do it that often. If you get to that great, if not I don't think this is the biggest issue we need to concern ourselves with. As far as the screener goes, we should set them up with an e-mail to send the apps to. Maybe something at theswf.net? Who is the screener now anyways?

 

Phase 1 or 2. A little while back, I started development of an archive application for the fed. It only archived matches and promos, but I intended to extend it to more. I didn't finish it, but it's pretty far along, so that I could, in theory, roll it out with phase 1, and extend it in phase 2. It was a system for people to log in, and submit matches and promos for archiving. It also allowed people to search the archives for matches, promos, people, etc. So, we already have some of this developed.

 

This sounds more like a phase 2 project to me because it sounds very complicated. However, I think it is a spectacular idea and needs to happen. Our history is starting to disappear and being able to go back and see it would be wonderful.

 

That's all I have to add for now...

[HVilleThugg 0]

I think Z is the screener now...although, we don't actually screen anything...but people PM him and he sets them up in the JL. He could have a "theswf.net" address...I already have one. He'd just have to setup his email client to accept email to that address. We can walk him through that if he needs it when the time comes.

 

Let me ask this:

 

Outcast and I have been talking over the last few days of the website. I'm not going to reveal whose point is whose, but...Do we like the current layout and navigation on the site now, or do we think we should do something different, and if so, why?

 

Da "this is very productive" H

[Guest Suicide King]

hmm... not really what this thread was about, webpage people.

 

anyway, I am still waiting to see what the fed opinion seems to be regarding this idea of judge's before I throw in my two cents.

[the.weej 0]

A few notes:

 

-Johnny submits design ideas to me because I'm in chat when he comes around and I'm on CC. I have no idea why he doesn't submit them to anyone else, but meh.

 

-I re-did the joining information, completely, when I was named head of the JL. The fuck I'm revising it again.

 

-Thoth is the JL screener, not me.

 

-I think the basic layout of the site right now is fine (a visible introduction, a listing of the current card, the upcoming PPV, last show results, etc). All the important shit is right on the front page. The navigation is a simple bar along the header that takes you to other pages on the site (Current champions--although that might work better on the front page or as a popup, Hall of Fame, title history, etc). The only real problem with it are the aesthetics of the design, and the lack of any simple internal system to do updates of any kind.

 

-Z

[Secret Agent 0]

Ermm... Ok. Well before you go any further Thugg, or Stevens~, or Outcast let me list you what I already have done, half-done, or in the worx.

 

First of all, Z's right, He's always here when I'm online, so I annoy him with website questions a lot. I'll just post em for now on.

 

Secondly THIS is basically what I had planned as far as information on the front page goes. Look at me I'm World Champ! I'll explain that one in a second.

 

The design has once again changed from what you see there; It's a little more stylistic than this. I know THIS looks like monkey crap. Also once everything is done I can change "Design" anytime in however long it takes someone to whip up a front page. Everything is pulled from outside pages into the main template.

 

SIGN UP Works. I have a new version of that coming as I don't want to use cookies any longer, but rather Session variables for loging in. All that gives you is access to the member stuff. I.E. editing stats, etc. Although it won't give you access to a damn thing until you are set to whatever league. SWF, or SJL.

 

STATS THING This is meant more for new people. I had planned on adding an explanation to things like how to properly figure your strength, stamina, etc.

 

Uhh.. Oh, yes. The champions thing on the front page is something that updates every single day. Once a day it will add "1" day to someone's title reign, giving an up to the minute title run length. It also allows for creation of new titles, deletion of old, suspending current ones, etc.

 

Maybe this is jumping ahead of your phase 1 or 2 but most of this is complete.

 

Oh, Mark, as far as the card deal goes. I can do what you asked but I have a "Card Wizard" about 40% ciomplete. This is meant for you to basically create a card for whatever show. It starts off with selecting an arena from the database(which includes seating capacity, city, state, country, etc) Adding a due dat, due time, show date, show time.

 

From there it goes into making matches. It pulls pep's from the "Active for competiton" list. It stores who's a title contender, whos a title holder, etc. Some of this is a two part deal though. I have a section for "Markers" to log into the site and select who won the match from the matches assigned to them. That's done already.

 

Then when you make a match you select a "Marker" from a marker list. When the whole show is done, I have it post to the front page, or you can save it if your working on it and want to come back to it later, but not yet post it. Then it outputs in "Board Format" complete with all the Invision board cpdes for bolding, italics, etc. Its just a copy and then paste into the boards.

 

Also on the "SHOW RESULTS" portion. It will not post it until whoever has access goes in and selects "Post Results". Once that is done, any title changes will be done, title historie's changed, and RANKING'S updated. all with the click of ONE button!!!

 

That's all for now, I'm typed out!

 

-Bass Out!

[Kaertos 0]

Wow. But, King is right. Let's move the Website discussion into another thread and get this one back on topic...

[Ace309 0]

I think the iCash thing rewards unnecessary bells and whistles on the website and in general.

 

I think outside competition is a good thing, though, so run with it.

[Atlas 0]

Just so you know, I've been slacking off mostly because of school and work. I now get paid to update my University's admissions site, which takes priority over this. Add to that the amount of work I get from taking 17 credits this semester and I barely have enough time to get things done and still enjoy myself.

 

The JL site is pretty much dead. I haven;'t touched that for months. The WF site is a bit behind, maybe a couple of weeks. It's still salvageable by whoever wants to update it. Not that it was ever meant to be out flagship site (as I recall, it was a temporary solution until we get version 2 out). The problem with this one, as was with every other one we've had, was that updating it is such a hassle. There's no connection between the boards and the site, meaning whoever does update it has to keep going back and fourth to do it. If a system was implemented that allowed whoever posts the show to dynamically update the site, it'd save people a lot of time.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

SLB-42!