Sell Me On the Salary Cap

[Guest Smell the ratings!!!]

before people point to Florida and Oakland as succesful small teams, where are Pudge and Tejada playing next year?

 

Two words for Tejada. Bobby Crosby.

or put it this way: where is Giambi playing now?

In all seriousness and its all hindsight too is that Giambi wasn't worth the money he signed for. $18 million a year is too much for a guy who will likely spend most of the rest of his career as a DH.

I absolutly agree, but that poor decision hasn't exactly crippled the Yankees spending power and doomed them to bad years. They still had enough to pay millions to the only two pitchers who didn't pitch in tonight's game, for instance.

[Bored 0]

before people point to Florida and Oakland as succesful small teams, where are Pudge and Tejada playing next year?

 

Two words for Tejada. Bobby Crosby.

or put it this way: where is Giambi playing now?

In all seriousness and its all hindsight too is that Giambi wasn't worth the money he signed for. $18 million a year is too much for a guy who will likely spend most of the rest of his career as a DH.

those two homers were worth it tonight wasn't it?

He hit two homeruns? Sorry didn't watch. Its still too much money for a DH. His numbers been down the last two years.

[Guest FrigidSoul]

That's the advantage the Yankees have over other teams is their t.v. and radio revenue is so much larger than any other team in baseball and that's why they can spend so much.

And before anybody brings up the Mets keep in mind that the last cencus I saw showed that NYC alone has 9million people living there

and you can cut that in half for fans...

 

LA has nearly four million and they spend like crazy and they dont win either.

Well even if 4.5mill are Yanks fans and 4.5mill are Mets fans there are still plenty of surrounding cities that hold millions more people who most likely pledge their allegiance to the hometown team

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Please.

 

Anaheim is NOT a small market.

I'm a Disney nut despite the fact that the company is falling into shambles, and I can tell you why the Angels are sold:

 

After winning a title, they demand more. Disney can't even put some fucking paint on a 10 year old building at Disneyland and has cut maintenance staff so far that accidents like the Big Thunder Mountain crash that took a life are now appearing for the first time in that theme park's history (all other deaths were because of customers breaking rules explained to them repeatedly.)

 

So when the players say, "Hey, we think we're worth a little more than that," off they go!

 

The cruise line nearly was sold to Sears or something as they take their fingers out of more and more pies. IMHO, they need to ditch Michael Eisner. Too bad the whole board is made of his best friends.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Its easier than you think. Look back at the comparison in the articles. The D'backs claimed $33 million more in losses than they really had. The Blue Jays claimed an extra $20 million as well.

[Guest Choken One]

before people point to Florida and Oakland as succesful small teams, where are Pudge and Tejada playing next year?

 

Two words for Tejada. Bobby Crosby.

or put it this way: where is Giambi playing now?

In all seriousness and its all hindsight too is that Giambi wasn't worth the money he signed for. $18 million a year is too much for a guy who will likely spend most of the rest of his career as a DH.

I absolutly agree, but that poor decision hasn't exactly crippled the Yankees spending power and doomed them to bad years. They still had enough to pay millions to the only two pitchers who didn't pitch in tonight's game, for instance.

but didn't need to spend much for the guy who won the game...

 

which shows my point, it's the players you get...not their value.

[Guest Smell the ratings!!!]

ok, I'm going to bed. I will say that we all agree on one thing: there is not a single team in the league, not even Tampa, that is losing money.

[Guest FrigidSoul]

Its easier than you think. Look back at the comparison in the articles. The D'backs claimed $33 million more in losses than they really had. The Blue Jays claimed an extra $20 million as well.

when people go to a Blue Jay's game they pay Canadian dollars to see the team while the team pays the players in American currency. Seeing as how the Canadian dollar is worth about 1 sheet of two-ply toilet paper I wouldn't be surprised if the Blue Jays were losing money trying to stay competetive

[Bored 0]

ok, I'm going to bed. I will say that we all agree on one thing: there is not a single team in the league, not even Tampa, that is losing money.

Actually I couldn't agree on that. But the teams that you think are losing money typically aren't the teams that are losing money and just leave it at that.

 

How about everyone agree on this? Bud Selig is an idiot.

[Guest FrigidSoul]

ok, I'm going to bed. I will say that we all agree on one thing: there is not a single team in the league, not even Tampa, that is losing money.

Tampa was losing money before Revenue Sharing

 

Also the owners need to make some money for themselves, I mean they aren't going to own a team and live in a fucking shanty by the river so they can spend every dollar coming in on talent

[Jobber of the Week 0]

From what I've read and heard however the Giants have most of the rights to exclusively air their games in many of the Oakland area communities thus canceling out some revenue that Oakland could be getting.

Giants on Channel 2, A's on Channel... Not sure. Used to be 4, but 4 is slowly dying since it lost NBC at the beginning of 2002. Your choice which to watch.

 

Along with the fact that the Colliseum is built near an industrial park from what I was told thus making it more and more uninviting every year now

 

The hell? Oakland practically IS an industrial park with some town at the edge and some homes in the hills. Actually, the Colliseum and attatched arena (went to Raw there last year) is near an airport. The industry is quite a ways away still.

[Guest FrigidSoul]

From what I've read and heard however the Giants have most of the rights to exclusively air their games in many of the Oakland area communities thus canceling out some revenue that Oakland could be getting.

Giants on Channel 2, A's on Channel... Not sure. Used to be 4, but 4 is slowly dying since it lost NBC at the beginning of 2002. Your choice which to watch.

 

Along with the fact that the Colliseum is built near an industrial park from what I was told thus making it more and more uninviting every year now

 

The hell? Oakland practically IS an industrial park with some town at the edge and some homes in the hills. Actually, the Colliseum and attatched arena (went to Raw there last year) is near an airport. The industry is quite a ways away still.

I don't live there so I was just going by what I heard from some Bay Area Natives. But through this thread it does appear that the Giants have their hands deeper into the Bay Area honey pot than Oakland

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Sent to me by a friend. The top 5 spending figures after mid-season trades:

 

New York Yankees $180,322,403

New York Mets 116,253,927

Los Angeles 109,248,680

Texas 106,277,880

Boston 104,873,607

[Bored 0]

Giants on Channel 2, A's on Channel... Not sure. Used to be 4, but 4 is slowly dying since it lost NBC at the beginning of 2002. Your choice which to watch.

A's haven't been on channel 4 since '98 I think. They are on KICU which is a independent affiliate. Yes the A's t.v. and radio deals are complete shit. Its partly their own fault and partly due the Giants being owned by so many media outlets in the Bay Area as I pointed out in another post.

 

I don't live there so I was just going by what I heard from some Bay Area Natives. But through this thread it does appear that the Giants have their hands deeper into the Bay Area honey pot than Oakland

See above. It should be noted that the Giants were on their way to becoming the Florida Marlins before there was the Florida Marlins back after the either '91 or '92 season but MLB bailed them out and got a local ownership group to buy the team. Something MLB didn't do for the A's back in 1999 due the Giants getting a new stadium and wanting to be the sole team in the Bay Area and Bud Selig complied because he's friends with Giants majority owner Peter Magowan. But that's a whole other tangent to go off on.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Its funny to see team moves that almost happened. The Giants almost moved to Minnesota before they moved to San Francisco. And the St. Louis Cardinals almost moved to Milwaukee, before the Browns moved to Baltimore.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

...And Seattle threatened to move to Florida if they couldn't get out of the leaky stinky Kingdome.

 

 

A's haven't been on channel 4 since '98 I think. They are on KICU which is a independent affiliate. Yes the A's t.v. and radio deals are complete shit. Its partly their own fault and partly due the Giants being owned by so many media outlets in the Bay Area as I pointed out in another post.

The weird thing is that in my neck of the woods, both teams get near-equal billing.

 

Safeway has peanuts with Giants logos on them, and just as many with A's next to them. Jack In The Box sells antenna balls wearing As and Giants hats, etc. But truth be told, I can't remember the last time my usual TV viewing was interrupted by an As game, but Giants games have left me cursing about missing prime time most my life.

 

Meanwhile, I think I'm going to chuckle myself to sleep tonight, remembering when the 49ers were good enough to demand a new park, and almost get it... Good thing they didn't bother with that, I guess.

[NoCalMike 0]

the yankees get so much cash from revenue basicalls because yankees gear is trendy as fuck. Every team has bandwagon fans but with the yankees it is just fucking ridiculous.

 

The yankees overpay players like Jose Canseco and Raul Mondesi just because there is a chance they might be able to help out another team. The yanks pay these guys to sit on the bench.

[NoCalMike 0]

another example is Giambi. The A's were willing to overpay him with 90million, yet the Yanks came along with an even more ridicilous offer for over 100million to be a fucking DH. If you look at his numbers he has hardly been worth it until tonight, but tonight was a rare performance for Giambi as ayank.

[The Man in Blak 0]

I don't think I saw it earlier, but I'm surprised nobody's been bringing the "dilution of MLB talent" argument into the deal. In terms of quality, there are probably a hundred mediocre guys like Omar Infante in baseball who start on major league squads, but would never even get a roster slot on teams with larger payroll.

 

It's not like football where there are 22+ different everyday positions to fill for a starting lineup. There are only eight everyday positions in baseball and, therefore, a single upgrade to the lineup at a given position can typically provide a decent boost to the overall production of the team.

 

Why is that idea important? Not only do the big spending teams have more to offer free agents in terms of monetary benefits, but there's only so many marquee free agents out there to even be lured away. If Sammy Sosa, Barry Bonds, and Alex Rodriguez all hit the market at the same time, it would be highly unlikely that any team (even the Yankees) could afford more than one of them. But that's still only three huge all-star-caliber players on the market, which means that only three out of thirty teams - a whopping 10% - will be signing these all-star caliber players and (potentially) gaining an increase in production, while the other 27 teams lose ground.

 

When only a small number of teams can make noticeable improvements year by year, of course the divide in quality is going to grow, as the ones with the money continue to put themselves in a position to constantly upgrade and feast off of the limited free agent market.

 

A salary cap could potentially help curb spending, but it wouldn't even come close to fixing the issue that there aren't enough premier free agents out there for all of the teams to remain consistently competitive of one another.

 

The solution, of course, is to take down the number of teams. The solution is the universally-hated contraction idea.

 

Now Baseball probably isn't explicitly losing money, but I'd wager that they're bleeding out truckloads of potential revenue just due to oversaturation. Too many teams, too many games during the regular season, too much of everything. But, like any bad investment, Major League Baseball needs to pull out now before it loses any more money. Yes, it will undoubtedly alienate fans (much like teams moving from city to city alienate fans in the original town), but the long-term effect that it would have on the talent pool would help baseball tremendously and go a long way towards making a higher percentage of games watchable and actually appealing.

 

 

 

I realize that I'm rambling at 3:30 a.m., so some of this may not seem immediately logical or understandable, but I think the general idea of what I'm trying to say (the problem is the dip in the overall talent) comes through well enough. Hopefully.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

I've always thought contraction was a terrible idea. The dilution of talent is always an issue, but I think there's enough talent to go around. Remember, more and more international talent is growing in the talent pool. The thing is, the ill will caused to the two teams you take baseball away from greatly alienates that fan base. And a sport should never contract unless their in serious financial straits. Contraction is a sure sign that your business is failing. Baseball doesn't need that image.

[Guest MikeSC]

Here's my thoughts on what should happen. The labor contract runs until 1006, so obviously nothing will happen before then. At that point, the Yankees will fall back in line, as their high priced players age, and the sabermetric revolution in Boston and Toronto picks up steam.

 

I just don't think baseball should take such a huge step unless there's a SERIOUS problem. There's competition out there, so I think baseball's ok.

Shockingly enough, the league with the strictest salary cap seems to be doing the best.

 

Must be a coincidence.

-=Mike

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Sent to me by a friend. The top 5 spending figures after mid-season trades:

 

New York Yankees $180,322,403

New York Mets 116,253,927

Los Angeles 109,248,680

Texas 106,277,880

Boston 104,873,607

Yep, new stadiums sure make teams more competitive...

[the pinjockey 0]

Here's my thoughts on what should happen.  The labor contract runs until 1006, so obviously nothing will happen before then.  At that point, the Yankees will fall back in line, as their high priced players age, and the sabermetric revolution in Boston and Toronto picks up steam.

 

I just don't think baseball should take such a huge step unless there's a SERIOUS problem.  There's competition out there, so I think baseball's ok.

Shockingly enough, the league with the strictest salary cap seems to be doing the best.

 

Must be a coincidence.

-=Mike

Shockingly enough, in the sport with the strictest salary cap, mediocrity abounds and terrible games are being played.

 

Must be a coincidence.

[Guest MikeSC]

Here's my thoughts on what should happen.  The labor contract runs until 1006, so obviously nothing will happen before then.  At that point, the Yankees will fall back in line, as their high priced players age, and the sabermetric revolution in Boston and Toronto picks up steam.

 

I just don't think baseball should take such a huge step unless there's a SERIOUS problem.  There's competition out there, so I think baseball's ok.

Shockingly enough, the league with the strictest salary cap seems to be doing the best.

 

Must be a coincidence.

-=Mike

Shockingly enough, in the sport with the strictest salary cap, mediocrity abounds and terrible games are being played.

 

Must be a coincidence.

This postseason was the rare exception.

 

It's not like baseball is laden with great games.

-=Mike

[the pinjockey 0]

Baseball has some good teams, providing some great baseball.

 

Football has some decent teams and a couple of good ones, playing awful football.

 

And how many postseasons do we need in a row before the great games baseball is providing aren't a fluke?

[Guest Choken One]

Didn't ESPN.com show that NFL playoffs have a close game ratio of like 28% while Baseball was mid 40s?

 

That shows Baseball has better postseason play as it's not so much watered down with Parity.

[CanadianChris 0]

Its easier than you think.  Look back at the comparison in the articles.  The D'backs claimed $33 million more in losses than they really had.  The Blue Jays claimed an extra $20 million as well.

when people go to a Blue Jay's game they pay Canadian dollars to see the team while the team pays the players in American currency. Seeing as how the Canadian dollar is worth about 1 sheet of two-ply toilet paper I wouldn't be surprised if the Blue Jays were losing money trying to stay competetive

Actually, the dollar has gotten much better over the past year. Do some research.

[Dr. Tom 0]

I don't think MLB needs a salary cap. Their system isn't perfect, but I also don't think forcing a level playing field is the answer, either. A salary cap punishes teams that have a history of success, and that's something I simply don't believe in doing. Players want to play for the Yankees for a reason: they have a long history of success. Why penalize them for that?

 

I do, however, think there should be a minimum salary if the luxury tax leads to revenue sharing. Owners can simply pocket the money they get from the revenue sharing, and that's not right. Make them spend that money on the field. Tampa Bay having an $18m payroll is a goddamn joke. Spend some money.

 

Speaking of the Yankees, the reason they have the money is because they own their own TV and radio networks. All the broadcasting revenue goes right to the team's coffers, instead of being split with the cable/radio stations.

[Guest FrigidSoul]

Actually, the dollar has gotten much better over the past year. Do some research.

I know, it went from being worth one-ply to being worth 2-ply...I gave the Canadian dollar its dues

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

This postseason is akin to Wrestlemania XIII. Sure you get Bret/Austin in the undercard, but it isn't much consolation when the main event is Sid/Taker.