RVD shoots..............again!!!

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

Working on a body part isn't good heel tactics. It is good MATCH tactics. Occasionally we have seen faces work on body parts of heels. EVEN Van Dam - against Eddy Guerrero at Judgment Day 2002. Coincidentally or not, that was probably Van Dam's best match that year.

[Guest MikeSC]

Logically, since HHH is supposed to be a "cerebral assassin" and all ---

 

SHOULDN'T HE HAVE FOCUSED ON ROB'S LEGS for the entire match? if his "entire offense" is based on his legs, shouldn't a guy who is booked as being an "intelligent" wrestler TARGET the legs?

 

It seems to make a bit of sense.

-=Mike

 

Logically, since HHH should have been controlling the match and calling the spots, he should have been able to lay out a match that would allow RVD to work with that match gameplan. If not, RVD should have sat down with HHH and a booker to help develop a loose plan for the match.

 

Oh, I'm not saying HHH is a great worker. Far from it. But the complaint was that he went after the knee and totally changed his style and I say: 1) He didn't totally change his style and 2) Working on the leg is a staple of wrestling psychology and made perfect sense in their match.

 

Again, I'm not saying it's not partly Rob's fault, but HHH can't be completely exonerated, either.  Either of those channels should have been employed if you know a worker like RVD is going to be challenging a worker whose style wouldn't work with RVD's well normally.  Blame HHH, blame the bookers, blame RVD, blame WWE style--but not RVD alone.  He was just working with his limited moveset he's been allowed to actually use and keep the crowd entertained between HHH's thrilling offense. 

 

I just don't buy that the WWE told RVD to tone down his offense. They told him to kill the stalling (thank God) and to be more careful with his stuff --- but I don't, sincerely, believe that they said "Rob, don't do (insert move name here)".

 

Hunter didn't do much to help Rob --- but HHH has managed to work good matches with less talented workers (Kane, the next month, was a much better match), so it's not that he just sucks and can't work. I don't doubt that they had some house show runs and the bookers and the workers were satisfied with the performance. I have to assume this as they regularly do the "warm-up" matches on the house show circuit before the PPV.

 

Working the leg isn't thrilling --- Flair's offense, at its best day, was hardly "thrilling" --- but that is when psychology and selling become important and RVD blew it on both counts badly.

 

Again, yeah, RVD's not a good worker.  Hardly anyone is saying he is.  Yet you're arguing a moot point anyway.  The crowd was still cheering and chanting for RVD, and if he'd won they wouldn't bitch about his selling.  They'd have popped, like they did with his fake win over Taker. 

 

Marks don't understand the "story" of the match anyway.  If they'd think about it at all they'd probably consider that RVD's legs are just tough, while wimps like Bret hobble around like a cripple after having people pound on their knees a little.

 

Perhaps that is why the fans go nuts for ALL of Bret's matches while they tend to sit on their hands during Rob's matches, except for the pretty spots. You don't often see fans going nuts for Rob to get out of a hold because he doesn't seem capable of connecting with them on the proper level --- and THAT is why I'd NEVER give him a run at the World Title.

 

And, yes, the same critique can be levelled at Goldberg --- and I'm definitely less than thrilled that his dull, overrated BUTT is even on TV, much less as the World Champ.

 

Maybe if the commentators on Raw actually sold the stories of regular matches instead of chatting it up about the stupid angles then maybe it would be different.

 

BUT, if they did try and sell the story of the match, it'd be nigh impossible with RVD's spotty selling. Cole and Tazz had to strain beyond words to try and sell Zach Gowen's leg being "hurt" during his match at Vengeance (a kid, with one leg --- that is hurt --- can throw dropkicks?). It'd be even worse for RVD:

 

"Man, he's been beaten half to death and...well, he just jumped to the top rope. I guess he was playing opossum"

 

"Again"

 

"Yup. Must be REAL good at it by now"

 

If wrestling is supposed to look as much like a shoot as possible --- then you HAVE to target weaknesses or "the entire basis of a guy's offense".

 

Then let him use moves that aren't centered completely on that.  RVD has used suplexes, some martial arts punches, the gorilla press, etc.  However, you rarely or never see them on WWE TV anymore.

 

I'll be honest --- I SERIOUSLY doubt the WWE told him to not do those spots. He's done a press slam recently --- but he doesn't do many because, unlike in ECW, he's in the ring with BIGGER guys than him. ECW was populated with smaller guys while the WWE has taller, bigger, heavier guys, so a press slam out of RVD is not coming. And I'd take a martial arts punch over that weak crap he throws right now.

-=Mike

[Guest NCJ]

TheMikeSC Posted on Oct 21 2003, 12:32 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

QUOTE (the pinjockey @ Oct 21 2003, 05:28 AM)

If RVD could adapt his style and turn in a decent match, then yes it would make sense to target his legs. But, again, HHH knew RVD couldn't work the match he wanted to use. So HHH went in with the idea that he wanted to expose RVD.

 

That shouldn't matter. Logically, if Hunter is supposed to be a brilliant tactician and all, the legs SHOULD be his primary focus and it's up to Rob to adapt.

 

Flair worked the legs on EVERY guy he faced, whether it made sense or not. People were expected to adapt.

 

There are times when HHH has screwed up in the ring. He should've done A LOT more to make his Rumble match with Steiner less of a total disaster than it was (though, honestly, I'm not sure what he could do. Scott was HORRIBLE as WCW Champ, something many seem to have forgotten).He absolutely and totally destroyed Test's one shot at stardom when he squashed him on RAW about 2 weeks or so after the whole wedding thing back in 1999. And he absolutely should have jobbed to Jericho in HITC last year.

 

But his match with RVD, while not terribly thrilling, was the way Hunter should have worked the match. You're supposed to ground a "high-flier". It makes the most sense, hoenstly.

-=Mike

 

 

Flair worked the leg because his finisher was a fucking figure four leg lock . It made sense. Malenko worked the legs and back because his finisher was a damn texas clover leaf. It made sense. How does HHH working the leg play into the finish of either of those matches. It would have only made sense if the face loss after going for a move and not being able to do it showing that they are better than the heel when healthy,but the heel had a better game plan, if the heel finished the match with a move that targeted the hurt area, where the heel looks smarter, or if the baby face overcomes the odds and barely able to stand the pain still pulls out a signature move to finish the match showing the faces unbelievable will power. See Luger/Flair from Capital Combat, Angle/Benoit from Royal Rumble, or Hogan/Andre from WM3 for an example of each. What's the fucking use in it if the match is just going to end in a pedigree/sledgehammer pin. As for this argument that RVD's style prevents him from having good matches he has had good to great matches with Undertaker, Brock Lesnar, Kurt Angle, Austin, Jericho, Rock, Eddy Guerrero, Chris Benoit, Jeff Hardy, Kane, and Tajiri. The key there is all of those guys were able to work matches at a decent pace, and use their moveset with RVD's, and not blow up after five minutes if there isn't a rest hold involved. I like HHH for the most part, but you can't just blame RVD for the match not being good. HHH has had only one good match since the quad tear and that was against HBK, and even that match was only good because of the emotion and shock of seeing HBK wrestle.

[Fökai 0]

Flair worked the leg because his finisher was a fucking figure four leg lock . It made sense. Malenko worked the legs and back because his finisher was a damn texas clover leaf. It made sense. How does HHH working the leg play into the finish of either of those matches.

 

He grounds him, so that RVD's high-flying offense is useless due to the leg injuries. It'll make RVD that much more susceptible to losing the match. The match doesn't NEED to end with a submission hold or "superhuman face comeback against all odds".

[Guest NCJ]

I'll be honest --- I SERIOUSLY doubt the WWE told him to not do those spots. He's done a press slam recently --- but he doesn't do many because, unlike in ECW, he's in the ring with BIGGER guys than him. ECW was populated with smaller guys while the WWE has taller, bigger, heavier guys, so a press slam out of RVD is not coming. And I'd take a martial arts punch over that weak crap he throws right now.

-=Mike

 

 

RVD can work a decent match, and he can do more than the flips and kicks. But, the fact is the flips and kicks are what make him stand out in the WWE so they have him use them to pop the crowd. He can actually do quite a few submission holds: inverted surfboard and leg lock bridge into a chinlock, use his offense to work a limb: Frog splash onto the leg of Sabu while it was under a chair, and he has a few traditional moves: a nice German and Northern Lights Suplex, tornado DDT, Gorilla Press Slam, and a Power Bomb. The truth is RVD is a decent worker with a lot of inventive moves. If the WWE were smart they would have just pushed the guy and not have had him change his moveset or his attitude.

[Guest NCJ]

bravesfan Posted on Oct 21 2003, 09:55 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

QUOTE 

Flair worked the leg because his finisher was a fucking figure four leg lock . It made sense. Malenko worked the legs and back because his finisher was a damn texas clover leaf. It made sense. How does HHH working the leg play into the finish of either of those matches.

 

 

He grounds him, so that RVD's high-flying offense is useless due to the leg injuries. It'll make RVD that much more susceptible to losing the match. The match doesn't NEED to end with a submission hold or "superhuman face comeback against all odds".

 

True, but then it should have ended with RVD actually still having HHH in trouble, going for the Frog splash and coming up short with the announcers selling that the legs had taken to much damage. That is how you make a credible challenger and fued. Not Flair turning for no reason, hitting RVD with a sledge hammer, and HHH pedigree pin.

[Guest TheGame2705]

bravesfan Posted on Oct 21 2003, 09:55 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

QUOTE 

Flair worked the leg because his finisher was a fucking figure four leg lock . It made sense. Malenko worked the legs and back because his finisher was a damn texas clover leaf. It made sense. How does HHH working the leg play into the finish of either of those matches.

 

 

He grounds him, so that RVD's high-flying offense is useless due to the leg injuries. It'll make RVD that much more susceptible to losing the match. The match doesn't NEED to end with a submission hold or "superhuman face comeback against all odds".

 

True, but then it should have ended with RVD actually still having HHH in trouble, going for the Frog splash and coming up short with the announcers selling that the legs had taken to much damage. That is how you make a credible challenger and fued. Not Flair turning for no reason, hitting RVD with a sledge hammer, and HHH pedigree pin.

If they went that route people would have bitched about HHH trying to hold him down by beating him after he hurt himself on his own move.

[humongous2002 0]

Well no matter what the RVD critics say, the man is still too fucking over despite the fact that WWE has been trying to bury his ass for 2 years. The haters could compare Rob to the Ultimate Warrior, Sid or Ahmed Johnson but they fail to mention that he is not getting the support of Vince and WWE management, he hasn't busted anyone open for a long time and his mic skills don't come out right because some geeky hollywood writer reject is writing a script for a character he doesn't know anything about. So haters bitch all you want, b/c i bet you guys go apeshit when you hear those loud RVD chants.

[Guest MikeSC]

Flair worked the leg because his finisher was a fucking figure four leg lock .  It made sense.  Malenko worked the legs and back because his finisher was a damn texas clover leaf.  It made sense.  How does HHH working the leg play into the finish of either of those matches. 

 

It works into the match because Rob is a high-flier and, logically, a guy should try and ground the opponent and that is what HHH did. Rob needs to learn to sell and engage in a little ring psychology if he ever hopes to be a consistent draw. HHH is "supposed" to make it difficult for Rob to hit his offense --- and that means the leg has to be targeted.

 

It would have only made sense if the face loss after going for a move and not being able to do it showing that they are better than the heel when healthy,but the heel had a better game plan, if the heel finished the match with a move that targeted the hurt area, where the heel looks smarter, or if the baby face overcomes the odds and barely able to stand the pain still pulls out a signature move to finish the match showing the faces unbelievable will power.  See Luger/Flair from Capital Combat, Angle/Benoit from Royal Rumble, or Hogan/Andre from WM3 for an example of each.  What's the fucking use in it if the match is just going to end in a pedigree/sledgehammer pin.

 

The terrible ending is not the issue. The WWE is loaded with crap endings because so few of the boys have the balls to do CLEAN jobs, which is tragic. However, in terms of the moves, attacking the leg of a guy who kicks a lot and jumps a lot makes perfect sense.

 

Let's ignore the WWE's crap endings as they never make sense. Logically, what offense on Earth would work well with an ending involving a sledgehammer?

 

As for this argument that RVD's style prevents him from having good matches he has had good to great matches with Undertaker, Brock Lesnar, Kurt Angle, Austin, Jericho, Rock, Eddy Guerrero, Chris Benoit, Jeff Hardy, Kane, and Tajiri.  The key there is all of those guys were able to work matches at a decent pace, and use their moveset with RVD's, and not blow up after five minutes if there isn't a rest hold involved.  I like HHH for the most part, but you can't just blame RVD for the match not being good.  HHH has had only one good match since the quad tear and that was against HBK, and even that match was only good because of the emotion and shock of seeing HBK wrestle.

 

If RVD could work well with them, why did his match with Hunter blow so badly? I have never seen a bad match --- and their match, flat out, was bad --- that was just one guy's fault.

 

Hunter is not a top-notch worker, so ANY match he's involved in suffers due to his involvement.

 

Rob can't sell at all and is inept at psychology, so he HAS to do spotfests to make a match work --- and if you have to do that, you're not a terribly good worker, either.

-=Mike

[Guest MikeSC]

RVD can work a decent match, and he can do more than the flips and kicks.  But, the fact is the flips and kicks are what make him stand out in the WWE so they have him use them to pop the crowd.

 

But the flippy stuff absolutely kills the suspension of disbelief. It is just terrible. The spots look SO rehearsed that they need to be eliminated entirely.

 

He can actually do quite a few submission holds: inverted surfboard and leg lock bridge into a chinlock, use his offense to work a limb: Frog splash onto the leg of Sabu while it was under a chair, and he has a few traditional moves: a nice German and Northern Lights Suplex, tornado DDT, Gorilla Press Slam, and a Power Bomb.  The truth is RVD is a decent worker with a lot of inventive moves.  If the WWE were smart they would have just pushed the guy and not have had him change his moveset or his attitude.

 

I've not heard from Rob --- and lord knows he'd say it --- that the WWE told him to tone down his moveset. I might have missed it, but I don't remember HIM ever saying that.

 

None of Rob's "normal" stuff is on the alleged "banned move list", so the WWE would not have a problem with him doing it. If he CHOOSES not to do them, it's his fault. And, far as I can tell, he chooses not to do them.

 

-=Mike

[Guest MikeSC]

True, but then it should have ended with RVD actually still having HHH in trouble, going for the Frog splash and coming up short with the announcers selling that the legs had taken to much damage.  That is how you make a credible challenger and fued.  Not Flair turning for no reason, hitting RVD with a sledge hammer, and HHH pedigree pin.

 

But RVD wasn't selling any leg injury, so the announcers CAN'T say he's hurting if he isn't selling that. It'd look bad for the announcers to discuss how bad his leg is hurt is he's still doing his normal moveset.

 

You assume that RVD can work psychology like that and nothing in his past indicates that he can.

-=Mike

[Guest MikeSC]

Well no matter what the RVD critics say, the man is still too fucking over despite the fact that WWE has been trying to bury his ass for 2 years. The haters could compare Rob to the Ultimate Warrior, Sid or Ahmed Johnson but they fail to mention that he is not getting the support of Vince and WWE management, he hasn't busted anyone open for a long time and his mic skills don't come out right because some geeky hollywood writer reject is writing a script for a character he doesn't know anything about. So haters bitch all you want, b/c i bet you guys go apeshit when you hear those loud RVD chants.

 

None of the "haters" are saying he should be buried.

 

Just that he is not close to deserving a World Title push.

 

Godfather got huge pops in his heyday --- bigger than Rob's.

 

He didn't deserve a big push.

 

Rikishi got huge pops.

 

He didn't deserve one, either.

-=Mike

[2GOLD 0]

But talentless windbag Triple H does?

 

No one on RAW deserves a damn world title push so why not just give it to the guy who is fresh (to the World title scene anyway), exciting, and WILL defend the damn title on shows.

 

Screw promos, I'd rather have a champ that wrestles at this point.

[Guest NCJ]

If RVD could work well with them, why did his match with Hunter blow so badly? I have never seen a bad match --- and their match, flat out, was bad --- that was just one guy's fault.

 

Hunter is not a top-notch worker, so ANY match he's involved in suffers due to his involvement.

 

Rob can't sell at all and is inept at psychology, so he HAS to do spotfests to make a match work --- and if you have to do that, you're not a terribly good worker, either.

 

But he has worked done good work with all of them. I don't think Rob is the best worker ever, but if someone has good matches with every other major main eventer (Brock, Taker, Angle, Jericho, Austin, Rock), and his only really bad match is with one guy (HHH), it is somehow totally Rob's fault? HHH has had bad or underperforming matches with Kurt Angle 2 times, Booker T (that match was not good at all), and Jericho 2 times (HIAC was okay except for the finish) in the last two or three years. His work rate has clearly suffered, yet the bad match with Rob is all RVD's fault. That logic really dosen't sound right. You are right that RVD has trouble with psychology in the WWE, but I have seen him have good psychologically sound matches with alot of different opponents.

 

I've not heard from Rob --- and lord knows he'd say it --- that the WWE told him to tone down his moveset. I might have missed it, but I don't remember HIM ever saying that.

 

None of Rob's "normal" stuff is on the alleged "banned move list", so the WWE would not have a problem with him doing it. If he CHOOSES not to do them, it's his fault. And, far as I can tell, he chooses not to do them.

 

-=Mike

 

But if you have seen any wrestler in the WWE work outside of it you see alot of moves that they don't do in the WWE rings for some reason. The truth is in general unless they give you a 25 to 45 minute match the WWE want you to stick to their basic pop the crowd moveset. Have you seen the difference in D-Lo Brown in TNA and WWE. Dean Malenko was one of the best technical wrestlers in the world, but in WWE he wasn't allowed to do any of his moves other than the clover leaf. Spanky has one or two moves tops in the WWE, so does he just forget how to work once he gets there. The list goes on and on of guys who don't, or can't use there normal moveset in the WWE.

 

None of the "haters" are saying he should be buried.

Just that he is not close to deserving a World Title push.

 

Godfather got huge pops in his heyday --- bigger than Rob's.

 

He didn't deserve a big push.

 

Rikishi got huge pops.

 

He didn't deserve one, either.

-=Mike

 

Rikishi got pops based on him having a big ass that he stuck in people's faces and dancing. Godfather got pops based on having ho's with him and they still weren't as big as Rob's even in bigger arenas. Comedy gimicks that can only get you over for so long, had nothing to do with what they did in the ring, and neither guy sustained pops for more than a year or two. RVD has been hot for going on three years. His fanbase is already there. The crowd pops because he is doing different and enetertaining things in the ring.

[{''({o..o})''} 0]

So basically this thread is people who don't like RVD making skewed arguements against him and people who like RVD making skewed arguments for him.

[Ripper 0]

Yeah...thats basically it.

 

You have a good/decent worker that one half is calling terrible because he doesn't limp enough and the other side calling great for some reason or other. One side is ignoring his faults while the other side ignores that thier favorite wrestlers do the SAME spotty selling...but thats okay because they aren't RVD.

 

Look, RVD isn't the greatest wrestler, but he diffinately isn't the worse worker. If your argument that RVD shouldn't be put in the world title or ME scene because he doesn't sell a limb, you are reaching. He needs to be there because the monotony at the top needs to be broken up to garner any fan intrest.

[humongous2002 0]

Yeah...thats basically it.

 

You have a good/decent worker that one half is calling terrible because he doesn't limp enough and the other side calling great for some reason or other. One side is ignoring his faults while the other side ignores that thier favorite wrestlers do the SAME spotty selling...but thats okay because they aren't RVD.

 

Look, RVD isn't the greatest wrestler, but he diffinately isn't the worse worker. If your argument that RVD shouldn't be put in the world title or ME scene because he doesn't sell a limb, you are reaching. He needs to be there because the monotony at the top needs to be broken up to garner any fan intrest.

Amen.

[Guest MikeSC]

But talentless windbag Triple H does?

 

No one on RAW deserves a damn world title push so why not just give it to the guy who is fresh (to the World title scene anyway), exciting, and WILL defend the damn title on shows.

 

Screw promos, I'd rather have a champ that wrestles at this point.

HHH isn't exactly deserving, but he is more capable of working good matches with different types of workers than RVD is. And Hunter is there, so whether he deserves it or not, honestly, is irrelevant at this point.

 

If you want to use somebody fresh and over --- use Hurricane. Heck, he's better than RVD.

-=Mike

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

No one on RAW deserves a damn world title push so why not just give it to the guy who is fresh (to the World title scene anyway), exciting, and WILL defend the damn title on shows.

 

Jericho.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

I don't think Rob is the best worker ever, but if someone has good matches with every other major main eventer (Brock, Taker, Angle, Jericho, Austin, Rock), and his only really bad match is with one guy (HHH), it is somehow totally Rob's fault?

 

The only good match he had with any of those guys was against Jericho at Unforgiven 2001. His KOTR 2002 match was okay. His only other good matches in the WWF have come against Eddy Guerrero. A-Train has had better matches with Benoit then RVD has. That should tell you something about Rob's talent level right there.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Well no matter what the RVD critics say, the man is still too fucking over despite the fact that WWE has been trying to bury his ass for 2 years. The haters could compare Rob to the Ultimate Warrior, Sid or Ahmed Johnson but they fail to mention that he is not getting the support of Vince and WWE management, he hasn't busted anyone open for a long time and his mic skills don't come out right because some geeky hollywood writer reject is writing a script for a character he doesn't know anything about. So haters bitch all you want, b/c i bet you guys go apeshit when you hear those loud RVD chants.

A hot crowd does not make a good match. Otherwise Andre/Hogan would be the best match of all time.

[Ripper 0]

I don't think Rob is the best worker ever, but if someone has good matches with every other major main eventer (Brock, Taker, Angle, Jericho, Austin, Rock), and his only really bad match is with one guy (HHH), it is somehow totally Rob's fault?

 

The only good match he had with any of those guys was against Jericho at Unforgiven 2001. His KOTR 2002 match was okay. His only other good matches in the WWF have come against Eddy Guerrero. A-Train has had better matches with Benoit then RVD has. That should tell you something about Rob's talent level right there.

WHAT?

 

Come on, those matches he had with Rob for the IC title were miles ahead of the A-Train matches.

 

And he had good matches with Angle(though the finishes sucked with the Alliance interfering...), Rock(though the finish sucked with Jerhico interfering), Brock(though the finish sucked with Heyman...I think I am seeing a pattern here) and that match against Taker STILL is Takers best match in years(IMO of course...).

 

Lets put it like this, RVD has had good matches with enough varied opponents of different wrestling styles to warrent getting put in the upper ME scene. You don't need the belt to be there, but you do need a interesting storyline and TV/Match time. Thats what he needs.

[humongous2002 0]

Well no matter what the RVD critics say, the man is still too fucking over despite the fact that WWE has been trying to bury his ass for 2 years. The haters could compare Rob to the Ultimate Warrior, Sid or Ahmed Johnson but they fail to mention that he is not getting the support of Vince and WWE management, he hasn't busted anyone open for a long time and his mic skills don't come out right because some geeky hollywood writer reject is writing a script for a character he doesn't know anything about. So haters bitch all you want, b/c i bet you guys go apeshit when you hear those loud RVD chants.

A hot crowd does not make a good match. Otherwise Andre/Hogan would be the best match of all time.

Who said anything about a great match???

[Ripper 0]

Hogan and ANdre did what they were suppose to...PUT ASSES IN THE SEATS.

 

And if you want to put asses in the seats, you put the guys that the crowd loves for more than a intro(for those who will come back with dumbass Rikishi/Godfather references despite knowing how much of a difference the pops they get are) on TV alot more than monolouges from cripple non-wrestlers that can't produce a match at all.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

WHAT?

 

You obviously didn't see his match with Angle a month back or even his match with Cena at Vengeance. They smoke anything he ever did with RVD.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Well no matter what the RVD critics say, the man is still too fucking over despite the fact that WWE has been trying to bury his ass for 2 years. The haters could compare Rob to the Ultimate Warrior, Sid or Ahmed Johnson but they fail to mention that he is not getting the support of Vince and WWE management, he hasn't busted anyone open for a long time and his mic skills don't come out right because some geeky hollywood writer reject is writing a script for a character he doesn't know anything about. So haters bitch all you want, b/c i bet you guys go apeshit when you hear those loud RVD chants.

A hot crowd does not make a good match. Otherwise Andre/Hogan would be the best match of all time.

Who said anything about a great match???

You said that we go apeshit for RVD because the moronic crowd is cheering for him.

[Ripper 0]

WHAT?

 

You obviously didn't see his match with Angle a month back or even his match with Cena at Vengeance. They smoke anything he ever did with RVD.

I stand by my statement.

 

The Angle/Taker match was a cut and paste remake of the VERY good Kane/Angle match, and the Angle/Taker match that followed the week(?) after that. While they were good, they were not as good as the RVD match...or the Angle/Kane Match for that matter.

 

And the Cena Match?...

 

...

 

I stand by my statement.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Hogan and ANdre did what they were suppose to...PUT ASSES IN THE SEATS.

 

And if you want to put asses in the seats, you put the guys that the crowd loves for more than a intro(for those who will come back with dumbass Rikishi/Godfather references despite knowing how much of a difference the pops they get are) on TV alot more than monolouges from cripple non-wrestlers that can't produce a match at all.

 

RVD is a lot closer to Godfather territory than Hogan. Just look at the recent ratings reports. Benoit & Eddy are drawing 5x what RVD is with the same push.

 

RVD is similar to Shawn Michaels. He was always a terrible draw too despite his fan support.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

WHAT?

 

You obviously didn't see his match with Angle a month back or even his match with Cena at Vengeance.  They smoke anything he ever did with RVD.

I stand by my statement.

 

The Angle/Taker match was a cut and paste remake of the VERY good Kane/Angle match, and the Angle/Taker match that followed the week(?) after that. While they were good, they were not as good as the RVD match...or the Angle/Kane Match for that matter.

 

And the Cena Match?...

 

...

 

I stand by my statement.

 

Anybody else care to handle this? I can't keep a straight face.

[Ripper 0]

Hogan and ANdre did what they were suppose to...PUT ASSES IN THE SEATS.

 

And if you want to put asses in the seats, you put the guys that the crowd loves for more than a intro(for those who will come back with dumbass Rikishi/Godfather references despite knowing how much of a difference the pops they get are) on TV alot more than monolouges from cripple non-wrestlers that can't produce a match at all.

 

RVD is a lot closer to Godfather territory than Hogan. Just look at the recent ratings reports. Benoit & Eddy are drawing 5x what RVD is with the same push.

 

RVD is similar to Shawn Michaels. He was always a terrible draw too despite his fan support.

That rating report means absolutely jack shit, and deep down inside most of us know it. RVD draws in less viewers in his curtain jerking 3 minute match than guys that get ME and 10 minute matches? REALLY!!! GET THE FUCK OUT. Next you are going to tell me the fans WANT to see Vince because he gets alot of viewership. Yeah, he's on the camera 50% of the time but hey, thats what the people want right?

 

Come on dude, you and I both know that that little viewership thing is basically useless as it looks at numbers with no circumstance whatsoever.

 

Put it like this, people would go to a House Show to see RVD ME. WHO in the flippity fuck would pay to see Godfather.