One and Only NWA:TNA Week ? Thread

[Mecha Mummy 0]

You guys are hilarious; all upset because the biggest star in the company and one of the

few wrestlers that is recognizable to the average wrestling fan, has won the title. To Joe

Blow at home, Hulk Hogan vs. AJ Styles = New York Yankees vs. some college team, while

Hogan vs. Jarrett = Yankees vs. major league team that people have at least heard of.

The only logical business decision is to have Hogan vs. Jarrett for the title as a ppv main

event. If enough average fans hear about it, some will order it and then these people

will get a good look at the rest of the roster, and if they are impressed enough then

some of these people will order in the future, even if Hogan isn't on the show. TNA is losing

money week after week. They have to try something to suck in new viewers and having Hogan

vs. their biggest name is as good a shot as any. I'd rather see Sharkboy as champ instead of

Jarrett, but the goal is to make money.

1. Raven is a bigger star and draw than Jeff Jarrett, not to mention more over.

 

2. Even if Styles won the match Hogan would still be working against Jarrett, so your point is moot.

 

3. We'd all rather see Shark Boy as NWA Champ over Triple J.

[bob_barron 0]

Raven v. Vampiro sounds like a suckfest waiting to happen- it should have great heat though.

 

Vampiro's been a worthless sack of shit for years

[MrRant 0]

3. We'd all rather see Shark Boy as NWA Champ over Triple J.

I wouldn't.

[Mecha Mummy 0]

3. We'd all rather see Shark Boy as NWA Champ over Triple J.

I wouldn't.

Okay, correction... Everyone that counts would rather see Shark Boy as NWA Champ than Triple J.

[AnonymousBroccoli 0]

A round of underachievement for everyone! Kash-Dutt was a little short. X Title was a match with 3 heels (though they're all popular to an extent), and wasn't nearly what it could have been. Tag Title match was decent, with some inexplicable referee ignorance. (Gilberti beating someone down on the outside in plain view isn't a DQ?) AJ gets jobbed, more poor ref booking (Low blows ho!), and the double turn lacked punch, probably because it was already two-thirds there before the show even started. Etc, etc. All that said, though, I don't regret ordering. It was good enough.

 

I for one can't wait to see the BatB rematch, with some lovely exchanges of shots as stiff as the ones these smilies are displaying.

 

And I'm lying real good. Sign of the night: "Don't Let The Cancer Invade TNA", or something to that effect.

[Guest Doyo]

I wouldn't call Jarrett the biggest star in the company- I would say Piper or Raven is a much bigger one. (He's still around right?)

The last impression the average fan was left with of Raven was a guy who lost a bunch

of opening and midcard matches in WWE, while their last impression of Jarrett was a guy

in the WCW World title picture. Raven does have quite the following though and he would

be the next best choice. Piper costs too much for them to have him week after week I'd guess.

 

With Hogan's surgery and the PPV cancelled- there's no idea when they're gonna do Hogan v. Jarrett.

 

Jimmy Hart's involvement would make me believe it isn't going to be that too far in the future. At

least it will have long build up, unlike most ppv main events. Of course, bringing in people like

Brian Knobs and Ed Leslie week after week to go after Jarrett isn't exactly going to excite the masses.

[bob_barron 0]

The last impression the average fan was left with of Raven was a guy who lost a bunch

of opening and midcard matches in WWE, while their last impression of Jarrett was a guy

in the WCW World title picture. Raven does have quite the following though and he would

be the next best choice. Piper costs too much for them to have him week after week I'd guess.

 

But TNA's major fans are the IWC and Raven has always been a darling of the IWC community. He also has a very loyal fanbase (much more then Jarrett) and is able to get the average fan into one of his matches. He's a bigger star then Jarrett definetley.

 

Dusty Rhodes is also a bigger star then Jarrett.

 

 

Jimmy Hart's involvement would make me believe it isn't going to be that too far in the future. At

least it will have long build up, unlike most ppv main events. Of course, bringing in people like

Brian Knobs and Ed Leslie week after week to go after Jarrett isn't exactly going to excite the masses.

 

Well they're not having the major Jarrett v. Hogan show for a while. So there would've been more then enough time to run the whole thing while still having AJ retain

[Guest Doyo]

1. Raven is a bigger star and draw than Jeff Jarrett, not to mention more over.

With smart fans and ECW fans, but not with the masses. To them Raven was the leader

of the goofy flock in WCW and guy who came out to goofy "crow cawing" music in WWE.

Jarrett is former WCW world champ and WWE intercontinental champ when that belt meant

more.

 

2. Even if Styles won the match Hogan would still be working against Jarrett, so your point is moot.

 

Hogan wants to add "NWA World Champion" to his resume, that is part of the deal with him

coming in. He wants to win it over a bigger name like Jarrett, instead of over a guy that he

has probably never heard of.

[Guest Doyo]

But TNA's major fans are the IWC and Raven has always been a darling of the IWC community.

 

"TNA's major fans" haven't been enough for them to make a profit. The whole goal is to bring in

as big a portion of all wrestling fans that they can.

[Guest wrestlingbs]

If Jarrett had won it cleanly a couple of weeks ago, then I would have agreed about it. But let's face facts. Hogan vs. Jarrett is a draw. Styles vs. Hogan is not. It's not because Jarrett is better or that AJ is worse, it's just because Hogan and Jarrett have a history together. It makes for more interesting TV. Plus Jarrett's heel turn and title win makes since. Jarrett won after a chair shot, the stroke on a chair, and a belt shot. It makes AJ look strong, like Jarrett was afraid he would lose.

[Guest Doyo]

Yes, Jeff Jarrett is very well known--well known for being a worthless piece of shit midcarder-at-best.  He has never drawn a dime in his whole career, but because people know his name, it is going to help?  Are you shitting me?

 

 

  It's not as if Hogan's been gone from the wrestling scene for years, or anything.

What one of their regular wrestlers have drawn more money than Jarrett? Yes, Raven

played a big role in helping pack fans into a bingo hall, but Jarrett did the same thing

earlier in his career in Memphis, when him and Lawler were the two top guys. Common

sense says that people knowing his name is going to help ppv buys. Who would order

a ppv concert from a band they never heard of?

 

Let's flash back to 1998.  "Hulk Hogan and Sting, those are some well-known names.  Undertaker vs. Steve Austin?  That sounds like the Bulls against a Junior High School Team.  The Rock vs. Steve Austin?  Nobody knows *them*, they can't draw shit."

 

What are you talking about? Austin had been on national television since 1991 when he

started with WCW. Millions were also familiar with the Rock because of his television appearances. The whole picture would be totally different if TNA had national television.

 

The way to make money in the wrestling business is to create new stars, not endlessly try to use washed up stars to draw in nostalgia buyrates.

 

They can't create new stars if nobody is watching. Use nostalgia to get people in the door and

then impress them with the new talent.

 

And why the hell would anyone pay 30 bucks to see Hogan when they just got to see him for that much a few months ago in the WWE? 

 

And why the hell would Joe Blow from Idaho pay 10 bucks to see AJ "Joe don't know who I am" Styles?

[Gert T 0]

It'll probably be that piece of shit Hale that Jimmy Hart has had a hard on for the last 5 years.

 

If it is Ed Leslie, the Asylum will NOT be happy with that.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

It's not because Jarrett is better or that AJ is worse, it's just because Hogan and Jarrett have a history together.

I'm curious as to how that's a big selling point, considering how dwindled WCW's fanbase was by July 2000. How many people actually care that Russo and Jarrett 'screwed' Hogan more than three years ago?

[Fro 0]

Wrestlers that "Jimmy Hart" has managed:

 

Jerry Lawler

Austin Idol

Masao Ito

The First Family (Memphis)

Randy Savage

Rick Rude

Eddie Gilbert

Lanny Poffo

Kamala

King Kong Bundy

The Funk Brothers

King Kong Bundy

The Glamour Girls

Rougeau Brothers

Rhythm & Blues

Hart Foundation

Earthquake

Dino Bravo

Money Inc

Nasty Boys

Natural Disasters

Hulk Hogan

Brutus Beefcake

The Dungeon of Doom

The Giant

Kevin Sulligan

Lex Luger

Ric Flair

Konnan

Meng

Barbarian

The First Family WCW

Brian Knobbs

Hugh Morrus

Jerry Flynn

Barbarian

 

 

Terry Funk is probably my favorite option out of that list. Vader was in the Dungeon of Doom for a bit too.

[Guest Choken One]

Luger...Funk...Savage...

 

These would be the only people to make ANY sort of impact...

 

Let's not forget Jarrett and Funk have history in WCW as well...

[Michrome 0]

Hogan vs. Jarrett is a draw.

 

In what parallel universe is this true? Almost nobody watched WCW at the end, and Hogan hasn't drawn money since 1998. People will pay to see a great wrestling product, great wrestling products do well in the U.S., look at Ring Of Honor, making far more money than TNA is. I mean gosh, why would anyone pay to see good matches? They'd much rather pay to see 70 year olds lugging around the ring.

 

You all seem to be in this lala land where "the masses" (who haven't paid to see Hogan since 98) will buy a TNA show with Jarrett vs. Hogan and thus see how great the rest of the product is, and a number 2 promotion will be born. Reality: The show will do a 0.2 buyrate at best, the whole show will be built around Hulk Hogan's "dream" of winning a title that has been trashed for years, and all of the talented wrestlers will be thrown into idiotic gimmick matches like the ultimate X to kill themselves early in the show.

[Guest CubbyBear]

In what parallel universe is this true? Almost nobody watched WCW at the end, and Hogan hasn't drawn money since 1998. People will pay to see a great wrestling product, great wrestling products do well in the U.S., look at Ring Of Honor, making far more money than TNA is. I mean gosh, why would anyone pay to see good matches? They'd much rather pay to see 70 year olds lugging around the ring.

 

If you truly think that Colt Cabana vs. Low Ki will draw more people than Hogan vs. Jarrett then you're really the one on the parallel universe. Yeah, Ring of Honor is drawing tons of money gimme a break. ROH's expenses are a fraction of what TNA spends on their product..so if they do draw more money then TNA that's pretty much why. I'd love to see how much money ROH would make if they would have to spend money running a weekly PPV, pay off written contracts, etc. I believe TNA makes just as much, if not more, money as ROH but they're expenses are so much higher that they don't make much of a profit...yet.

 

You all seem to be in this lala land where "the masses" (who haven't paid to see Hogan since 98) will buy a TNA show with Jarrett vs. Hogan and thus see how great the rest of the product is, and a number 2 promotion will be born. Reality: The show will do a 0.2 buyrate at best, the whole show will be built around Hulk Hogan's "dream" of winning a title that has been trashed for years, and all of the talented wrestlers will be thrown into idiotic gimmick matches like the ultimate X to kill themselves early in the show.

 

I don't believe WM18 with Hogan/Rock took place in 1998. Name someone in ROH or anyone else that came close to even drawing a fraction of what Hogan (and let's face it, it was Hogan that brought in the buys for that show because no one bought it to see Jericho vs. HHH with dogshit buildup a week before) drew at WM18. Hell, he was even more over than the Rock. But in your little world Colt Cabana vs. Low Ki is what people will buy a PPV for. It's ludicrous. All that young talent is great and is what TNA should build around but in order to get them exposure they need someone like Hogan.

[Michrome 0]

WM 18 buyrate was a HUGE disappointment, it did horribly. Try again next time.

[Michrome 0]

All of the same excuses people made for WCW get made for TNA. It almost gives ya chills, doesn't it? People will pay to see a program with good wrestlers and good storylines. They're not going to pay for a shitty program that gets good once every couple of months that happens to have Hulk Hogan.

 

You have to weigh the amount of buys that you will get for having Hogan-Jarrett against the amount of your core fanbase that you will lose when you completely change the direction of the program. Russo completely changed the direction of WCW in 99, failed to bring in new viewers for more than 2 months, and after they left, core viewers had left too, and the company was crippled. And if it's just Hogan bringing in the buys, regardless of Jarrett, then why not have Hogan just be the ref?

 

People know who Jay Leno and David Letterman are, let's put them in a singles match on PPV, that'll get more buys! If RoH was on PPV, they'd be making upward progress at least, which is something TNA can't say. And they would draw more than 350 paid, as they do regularly now.

[Guest CubbyBear]

WM 18 buyrate was a HUGE disappointment, it did horribly. Try again next time.

 

It was a dissapointment for what WWE expected but it was still a huge buyrate .

 

All of the same excuses people made for WCW get made for TNA. It almost gives ya chills, doesn't it? People will pay to see a program with good wrestlers and good storylines. They're not going to pay for a shitty program that gets good once every couple of months that happens to have Hulk Hogan.

 

What gives me the chills is your ignorance.

 

No excuses, just the truth. And I missed your response to my claims...oh yeah, there was none.

 

You have to weigh the amount of buys that you will get for having Hogan-Jarrett against the amount of your core fanbase that you will lose when you completely change the direction of the program. Russo completely changed the direction of WCW in 99, failed to bring in new viewers for more than 2 months, and after they left, core viewers had left too, and the company was crippled. And if it's just Hogan bringing in the buys, regardless of Jarrett, then why not have Hogan just be the ref?

 

First the Russo thing...Russo came in and the last Nitro rating before the first Nitro he wrote was a 2.9. His last Nitro was a 3.4. That's awesome for two months especially considering it would take atleast 1 year/1 year and a half to turn a company around. And Russo isn't even booking...Dutch Mantell is.

 

The point is to get Hogan to get the buys so that all these new viewers can see all the young new talent.

 

It's not just Hogan just bringing in the buys..it's the storyline that is executed, the buildup, etc.

 

People know who Jay Leno and David Letterman are, let's put them in a singles match on PPV, that'll get more buys! If RoH was on PPV, they'd be making upward progress at least, which is something TNA can't say. And they would draw more than 350 paid, as they do regularly now

 

Copout on the Leno and Letterman crap. Hogan is a big name in WRESTLING that's why putting him in a good WRESTLING storyline and building up to a big WRESTLING match will bring in new WRESTLING fans so they can see what all the other WRESTLERS in TNA have to offer. It's not rocket science, buddy.

 

If RoH was on PPV, they'd be making upward progress at least, which is something TNA can't say. And they would draw more than 350 paid, as they do regularly now.

 

Doubt it because no one would pay to see Low Ki vs. Colt Cabana because no one knows who they are. But we won't even know for sure cuz ROH has no television exposure AT ALL. No syndication, no nothing. Just video tapes that you have to pay 15 dollars to buy. Which basically proves that ROH has nowhere near the exposure TNA has.

Edited October 23, 2003 by CubbyBear

[tommytomlin 0]

I'm going to put ten bucks on Meng being the mystery opponent.

[Guest CubbyBear]

What's up Tommy, this is Main Event from BOOK. Zack told me you were posting here.

[Michrome 0]

RoH does have less expenses, but they have better ticket sales than TNA, they do various venues and cities, as opposed to just one, and they put on a way better show with way better wrestling and far better storylines. As opposed to TNA, ROH has been adding expenses as they've made money, as opposed to cutting them to deal with losses. The Punk-Raven storyline blows anything TNA (Or WWE, for that matter) has done this year. You seem to think that RoH has no storylines or feuds and that it's just random guys wrestling. Get a clue. Speaking of Russo....

 

 

Let's look at Russo's Ratings Record in 99:

3.32

3.51

3.21

3.31

3.1

3.41

3.12

3.0

2.9

3.2

2.84

3.3

3.4

(Gone)

 

The idea that you're going to give him credit for bringing the ratings up to 3.4 just because he put on 2 big shows in the end is ridiculous, the numbers were wildly varying. Either way, total money these ratings brought in: Negative a lot.

 

Let's look at buyrates:

Halloween Havoc: Russo did 1 Nitro before this show, and nothing else. Buyrate: .52

 

Mayhem: Russo's first masterpiece: .45

 

Starrcade: The biggest WCW PPV of the year, with 2 months of Russo Build: .23

 

Souled Out: .26

 

Buyrates, the things that made WCW money, went WAY DOWN under Russo. The "casual fan" that they were trying to catch might check out the show, but he sure as hell wasn't dishing out 35 bucks to see it. Hogan can be useful to the company, hell, so can Luger and Sting, but if they base the company around these guys they are heading for disaster. Look at WWA, for god's sakes.

 

The lesson here about buyrates and ratings is telling as well. The "casual fan" (who lives in the 80s according to all of you) may stop when he sees Hogan on a channel and watch, but why would he be more inclined to actually pay to see Hogan? Will Hogan pimping the show on Jay Leno really do a lot for buys?

[Guest Choken One]

ppvs were only 29 bucks back then...but yeah point still the same.

[Guest TDinDC1112]

WM 18 buyrate was a HUGE disappointment, it did horribly. Try again next time.

That is just flat out wrong.

[Guest dvkorn]

Whoever said Jarrett made AJ look crap..... You Jarrett hate is clouding your vision.... You are full of shit... Jarrett made AJ look quite good i think... even excellent... AJ kicked out of:.... a stroke onto a chair... a middle rope TKO.. a chair shot... and he reversed the figure four... in the space of like 12 minutes... there was no way that AJ looked crap from this match... get it right...

 

As for the outcome... i don't mind either way.. would have probably preferred to see AJ go over.... but i mark for Jarrett and especially his heel persona... So, it is good that JArrett has finally gotten back to being a heel.... Styles as a face now... will be interesting... just to see what they do with him...

 

Jarrett going over isn't all bad.... Styles didn't look like a bitch... this Hogan thing is coming up.... and having a recognisable face as champion will help...

 

Am i the only one that absolutely loved the Jarrett/Jimmy Hart stuff.... it was excellent.. it is a good way to slowly build to the Jarrett/Hogan match... and having a slow build with Mantel at the helm will rule..

 

 

my only gripe was the length of the Jarrett/AJ match... 12 mins... they should have given it another 5... they had the time... Overall the show was enjoyable... i started to get more into the show in the Jarrett/Hart segment.... but for me... nothing beats the Ultimate X show.... (note: i am yet to see the Super X Cup/Wargames show...)

[Guest dvkorn]

and also... am i the only one who thought that Vampiro looked like total crap... his selling and much praise kicks looked shit...

[Michrome 0]

That is just flat out wrong.

 

Ok, fine, fuck facts, just live in Lala land:

 

In 2002, the Royal Rumble Buyrate was up 19% from 2001.

 

In 2002, the Wrestlemania buyrate was down 36% from 2001.

 

It dropped from a 2.18 to a 1.6. Every single person that knows shit about buyrates saw it as a huge disappointment.

[Guest TDinDC1112]

That is just flat out wrong.

 

Ok, fine, fuck facts, just live in Lala land:

 

In 2002, the Royal Rumble Buyrate was up 19% from 2001.

 

In 2002, the Wrestlemania buyrate was down 36% from 2001.

 

It dropped from a 2.18 to a 1.6. Every single person that knows shit about buyrates saw it as a huge disappointment.

Wrestlemania 18 is one of the 4 most watched ppv's of all time, the other 3 being the 3 Wrestlemanias before it.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

Jerry Lawler - There is NO way Vince McMahon would let this happen.

Austin Idol - No chance in Hell

Masao Ito - See above.

The First Family (Memphis)- Nope

Randy Savage - Possible? Depends on how much his asking price would be.

Rick Rude - RIP

Eddie Gilbert - RIP

Lanny Poffo - We have a better change to see Randy.

Kamala - Doubt it.

King Kong Bundy - Nope

The Funk Brothers - Terry maybe..

Rougeau Brothers - Nope

Rhythm & Blues - Honky Tonk or Greg Valentine, NOOOOOOO

Hart Foundation - Niedhart, Oh God NO. Bret, No chance

Earthquake - Does he even wrestle anywhere?

Dino Bravo - RIP

Money Inc - Rotundo, Nope, and Dibiase, Nope

Hulk Hogan - Eventually, unless they pull a swerve.

Brutus Beefcake - OH HELL NO!

The Giant - NOPE

Kevin Sullivan - I sure as hell hope not.

Lex Luger - Is he in jail?

Ric Flair - NOPE

Konnan - I highly doubt it.

Meng - Maybe, but probably not as I think he is retired.

Barbarian - Doubt it.

Brian Knobbs - Doubt it.

Hugh Morrus - NO

Jerry Flynn - HELL NO

 

I think that the only REAL possibility would be Terry Funk. The only other one that could possible work would be a total Swerve with Hogan, that would be done to give them further time to promote and set up the PPV.