Guest Just J Report post Posted January 8, 2004 Latrell Sprewell is vastly overrated. I don't think he belongs in the top 30. Shawn Marion probably belongs higher on that list. Tracy McGrady is clearly better than Kobe Bryant. Karl Malone probably should make the bottom 10 at least. And Michael Redd deserves some consideration. Spee is a little inconsistant be he should be a top 20 player hands down. The man puts up some serious numbers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted January 8, 2004 He scores alot of points because he plays alot of minutes. Otherwise, Sprewell is a poor passer, he's turnover prone, he shoots for a low percentage, he doesn't get to the foul line, and he's a poor rebounder. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Just J Report post Posted January 8, 2004 Well he has 130 assist on the year and averages 3.9 per game, which is higher the the league average, so I'd say your wrong there. He has made 100 free throws this year, it could be better, but still pretty good. He also only averages 2.5 turnovers per game, not to shabby. I think you should do more research next time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alfdogg 0 Report post Posted January 8, 2004 (edited) My top ten at each position: PG: 1. Jason Kidd 2. Sam Cassell 3. Stephon Marbury 4. LeBron James 5. Baron Davis 6. Steve Nash 7. Mike Bibby 8. Andre Miller 9. Gary Payton 10. Steve Francis SG: 1. Tracy McGrady 2. Kobe Bryant 3. Paul Pierce 4. Allen Iverson 5. Ray Allen 6. Latrell Sprewell 7. Michael Finley 8. Eddie Jones 9. Michael Redd 10. Vince Carter SF: 1. Kevin Garnett 2. Shawn Marion 3. Dirk Nowitzki 4. Peja Stojakovic 5. Andrei Kirilenko 6. Ron Artest 7. Jamal Mashburn 8. Lamar Odom 9. Shareef Abdur-Rahim 10. Rashard Lewis PF: 1. Tim Duncan 2. Jermaine O'Neal 3. Chris Webber 4. Elton Brand 5. Zach Randolph 6. Antoine Walker 7. Pau Gasol 8. Karl Malone 9. Amare Stoudemire 10. Carlos Boozer C: 1. Shaquille O'Neal 2. Ben Wallace 3. Brad Miller 4. Yao Ming 5. Zydrunas Ilgauskas 6. Erick Dampier 7. Vlade Divac 8. Eddy Curry 9. Dikembe Mutombo 10. Marcus Camby If a huge name is missing, I probably just forgot about him. Edited January 8, 2004 by alfdogg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted January 8, 2004 Well he has 130 assist on the year and averages 3.9 per game, which is higher the the league average, so I'd say your wrong there. We're debating whether Sprewell is among the top 20/30. Not whether he's better than average. He ranks 45th in total assists, and 39th in assists per game. He has made 100 free throws this year, it could be better, but still pretty good. Again, "pretty good" does not get you into the league's elite players. I think you should do more research next time. How about using some more advanced metrics rather than the relatively meaningless stats the NBA uses? Turnover ratio. Measures the number of turnovers used per 100 possessions. Last year, Sprewell ranked 20th AT HIS POSITION. Points per shot attempt. Sprewell's was 1.00, 44th at his position. That means last year 43 small forwards scored more points per shot attempt than Sprewell. Rebound Rate. Sprewell was the 55th best at his position. 54 small forwards were better at rebounding than Sprewell. Again, Sprewell is overrated. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Redhawk Report post Posted January 8, 2004 Alfdogg, I think you're completely overrating Sam Cassell. True, he has been under-appreciated for most of his career due to the fact he's played with bigger stars (Hakeem, Drexler, Ray Allen, Big Dog, Garnett, etc.). But the second-best PG in the League? LeBron is not better than Baron Davis yet. Maybe in a few years...maybe even next year...but not right now. In two games head-to-head, Baron is averaging 26.5 ppg, 5 rpg and 6 apg. LeBron is averaging 18.5 ppg, 7 rpg and 5.5 apg. Plus, LeBron is shooting 30 pct (12-for-39) against N.O. Eddie Jones, Spree and Michael Redd ahead of Vince Carter? I can maybe see why some people would put Finley ahead of Vince, but not the other guys. Once you get to the frontcourt it becomes confusing, because no one really knows what position some of those guys play. Garnett can be a PF, Dirk could be a PF, Toine could be a SF, etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steviekick 0 Report post Posted January 8, 2004 Part of Sprewell's appeal is that not only is he a very good player, but he is one of the few players in the league who stand out because of their heart. Spree is very strong willed, tough, and wants to win...that's all stuff that makes for a likable player. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest FrigidSoul Report post Posted January 8, 2004 This is Baron Davis' first good year so I can see placing Cassell ahead of him. As far as this year goes though Baron Davis is better than Cassell. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steviekick 0 Report post Posted January 9, 2004 Baron's having a great year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alfdogg 0 Report post Posted January 10, 2004 Charlie Ward signed with the Spurs for the veteran's minimum. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. S£im Citrus 0 Report post Posted January 10, 2004 Nothing like the Hawks to break out of a losing streak... I swear, the Lakers could have all left the court and went home with about five minutes left in the 4th quarter, and the Hawks couldn't have caught up before time ran out... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Secret Agent 0 Report post Posted January 10, 2004 Thats because the Hawks suck, Dub Cee! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mindless_Aggression Report post Posted January 10, 2004 Literally, like 5 minutes into the game EVERY Hawk on the court just said "Oh well, fuck it" and pretty much watched Medvedenko somehow play a Shaq style game. It was tremendous. Pacers beat the Mavs, somewhat surprising but the Mavs seem to suck all things considered so maybe not so much. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alfdogg 0 Report post Posted January 10, 2004 I'm not so much surprised that we *beat* the Mavs, I'm surprised we beat them with Jermaine O'Neal having a subpar game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vern Gagne 0 Report post Posted January 10, 2004 The Mavs are a soft team, who don't even seem to be has good offensively has expected. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. S£im Citrus 0 Report post Posted January 10, 2004 Well, shit, no team in the NBA is as good offensively as expected, except for the Kings... Now, if only the defense could catch up with the offense... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cuban Linx 0 Report post Posted January 10, 2004 Well Portland finally get their second road win of the season, when it takes you this long just to catch up with Cleveland's road record you know you've got problems. A shame since thier home record is up there with the best in the league, but their record away from home will kill their chances of tying Philadelphia's all-time consecutive playoff appearance record. After all these years of playoff failures i want something out of it, even if it's a relatively useless record. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vern Gagne 0 Report post Posted January 10, 2004 I wouldn't count out Portland of the playoffs. They have a tendency every year to run off a 10 game or so winning streak. It would help if they could dump Rasheed Wallace. Portland doesn't benefit having that cancerous dog on their team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
King Kamala 0 Report post Posted January 10, 2004 SF: 1. Kevin Garnett 2. Shawn Marion 3. Dirk Nowitzki 4. Peja Stojakovic 5. Andrei Kirilenko 6. Ron Artest 7. Jamal Mashburn 8. Lamar Odom 9. Shareef Abdur-Rahim 10. Rashard Lewis Where's Paul Pierce? I say he's better than at least three of those guys on the list. The Celtics are .500 right now with a weak supporting cast (Jiri Welsch is looking OK and so is Vin Baker when he's not on the sauce). Until Ricky Davis starts going all out and putting up 20 points a night, the Boston Celtics are the Paul Pierce show and considering that they're doing damn good. I say Pierce is easily better than Odom, Rahim and Lewis and maybe even one or two more SFs on your list. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
razazteca 0 Report post Posted January 10, 2004 Paul Pierce is a Shooting Guard. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alfdogg 0 Report post Posted January 10, 2004 SG: 1. Tracy McGrady 2. Kobe Bryant 3. Paul Pierce 4. Allen Iverson 5. Ray Allen 6. Latrell Sprewell 7. Michael Finley 8. Eddie Jones 9. Michael Redd 10. Vince Carter As far as I knew that's what he played. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest FrigidSoul Report post Posted January 10, 2004 Pierce's natural position is SF but he plays SG for the Celts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
razazteca 0 Report post Posted January 10, 2004 Alot of the elite players can play more than one position. Tim Duncan plays both Power Forward and Center. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steviekick 0 Report post Posted January 11, 2004 The NY Media has been abuzz of late that Isaiah's 2nd Miracle will be trading Michael Doleac and Keith Van Horn off to Portland for Rasheed Wallace. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the pinjockey 0 Report post Posted January 11, 2004 ESPN.com just put up an article about Yinka Dare dying of a heart attack. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1705406 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steviekick 0 Report post Posted January 11, 2004 That's depressing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mindless_Aggression Report post Posted January 11, 2004 Good Lord, is it really necessary for every report on this to note that Yinka really sucked? Yes, I think it is personally. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the pinjockey 0 Report post Posted January 11, 2004 Is it wrong that the first thing I thought about after reading that was no longer having this conversation at fantasy drafts: Person with 1st pick: Hello, I am here. Person B: Who are you taking with the first pick? Person C (the smartass, usually my role): Take Yinka Dare Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mindless_Aggression Report post Posted January 11, 2004 I think Fantasy Leagues all over the world are saddened by the fact that the "Pick Yinka Dare" joke is officially in poor taste. Although if your league is full of people with poor taste, the joke of drafting a guy who was not only bad at basketball but dead should go over very well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alfdogg 0 Report post Posted January 11, 2004 Now we can just use "pick Keith Closs." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
