Styles 0 Report post Posted November 7, 2003 So they became wrestlers, they deserve to die. That's what you're saying? The roster is deep enough to allow 4 or 5 to sit on the sidelines and heal properly without fucking themselves up on pain pills and cocaine. As I said it would FORCE new people to be pushed anyway. Please do not put words in my mouth. I never said they deserved to die, and Ieven said I wish it was different. Even from my own personal experiences knowing the late Curt Hennig, I regret the pain that is involved in the business, and the effect it has on the people involved. But the thing is, given the chance to change and take time off, it would be refused. They want to wrestle, and if Vince says no to them, they would do it anyway. It becomes a part of them, for good or ill, and the situation probably will never trully change. If they are under contract to Vince, and Vince says "no you're taking time off to heal properly while I pay you" they can't wrestle. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Youth N Asia 0 Report post Posted November 7, 2003 Holy shit...I'm sad to hear that. I always liked Crash Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted November 7, 2003 So they became wrestlers, they deserve to die. That's what you're saying? The roster is deep enough to allow 4 or 5 to sit on the sidelines and heal properly without fucking themselves up on pain pills and cocaine. As I said it would FORCE new people to be pushed anyway. Please do not put words in my mouth. I never said they deserved to die, and Ieven said I wish it was different. Even from my own personal experiences knowing the late Curt Hennig, I regret the pain that is involved in the business, and the effect it has on the people involved. But the thing is, given the chance to change and take time off, it would be refused. They want to wrestle, and if Vince says no to them, they would do it anyway. It becomes a part of them, for good or ill, and the situation probably will never trully change. If they are under contract to Vince, and Vince says "no you're taking time off to heal properly while I pay you" they can't wrestle. Vince told Jeff Hardy this every fucking week and jeff kept going "Nah" until vince had no choice. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Styles 0 Report post Posted November 7, 2003 So they became wrestlers, they deserve to die. That's what you're saying? The roster is deep enough to allow 4 or 5 to sit on the sidelines and heal properly without fucking themselves up on pain pills and cocaine. As I said it would FORCE new people to be pushed anyway. Please do not put words in my mouth. I never said they deserved to die, and Ieven said I wish it was different. Even from my own personal experiences knowing the late Curt Hennig, I regret the pain that is involved in the business, and the effect it has on the people involved. But the thing is, given the chance to change and take time off, it would be refused. They want to wrestle, and if Vince says no to them, they would do it anyway. It becomes a part of them, for good or ill, and the situation probably will never trully change. If they are under contract to Vince, and Vince says "no you're taking time off to heal properly while I pay you" they can't wrestle. Vince told Jeff Hardy this every fucking week and jeff kept going "Nah" until vince had no choice. Jeff wasn't happy. He didn't want to be a wrestler (which contradicts the argument of THEY HAVE TO WRESTLE!) and by all accounts is doing much better and is much happier recording music. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jobber of the Week 0 Report post Posted November 7, 2003 Bomp, bomp, bomp. And another one bites the dust. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest hhheld_down Report post Posted November 7, 2003 pops in the wwf hardcore title dvd To the greatest, most entertaining WWF Hardcore champion ever. RIP Crash Holly Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Mandarin 0 Report post Posted November 7, 2003 Bomp, bomp, bomp. And another one bites the dust. Sadly, that's how it is in the wrestling business. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
{''({o..o})''} 0 Report post Posted November 7, 2003 If they are under contract to Vince, and Vince says "no you're taking time off to heal properly while I pay you" they can't wrestle. And you are ignoring the fact that they don't get paid the full amount when they don't. Even some of the lower card have to work other jobs while wrestling to make money. Vince is first and foremost, a business man, and if he can get rich having somebody risk their health and well being, while not paying them near what they are worth, he'll do it. It is understood, and it is part of the way things are, as shitty as it is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted November 7, 2003 If vince was a TRUE asshole...He wouldn't let Dreamer and others even work a show anywhere else. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Styles 0 Report post Posted November 7, 2003 If they are under contract to Vince, and Vince says "no you're taking time off to heal properly while I pay you" they can't wrestle. And you are ignoring the fact that they don't get paid the full amount when they don't. Even some of the lower card have to work other jobs while wrestling to make money. Vince is first and foremost, a business man, and if he can get rich having somebody risk their health and well being, while not paying them near what they are worth, he'll do it. It is understood, and it is part of the way things are, as shitty as it is. That's why a wise man once said: "enough is enough and it's time for a change." As I said, if Vince can afford to pay obscene pay per view pay outs to himself and his kids, he can pay the wrestlers fair compensation while they are injured. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fökai 0 Report post Posted November 7, 2003 What pisses me off is that anyone with the proper funds and a decent eye for talent could drive them out of business..but nobody's been able to. Every time they've had competition creep up, it's been blind fucking luck that's saved them. Vince isn't a great buisnessman..hell, he's not even a great wrestling promoter. He's a talentless hack that's had everything handed to him. Look at what happens when nobody will tell him "no". We get the current product. The success of the WWF was handed to him? If it wasn't for Vince McMahon, this "professional wrestling" wouldn't be anything more than a two-bit operation run by his father. Hulk Hogan? Steve Austin? They were handed to Vince. Once they got moving strong, they simply got the chance to run with the ball. Hulk Hogan was larger than life. Vince was smart enough to reel him away from Vern Gagne - tell me that's just "dumb luck". Yes, you could say that it was Vince's feud with Austin that "made" him, but it wasn't. Then what DID make Austin a fan favorite? Why did MILLIONS of fans during that time watch WWF TV? Rocky? He was the only one really made in the WWF/E, but it was more of an accident than anything else. He didn't get over as they'd wanted (A bland, Hulk Hogan clone-babyface) but through his own charisma and mannerisms. Right, because the faith to give him entire promos week after week (without any set script), while making him the top antagonist to Austin was...yes, once again, just "dumb luck". You don't even have to have talent to be a major player in that company. Look at Triple H. He's reportedly a hard worker..but is it really that hard when you've had Mick Foley, Steve Austin, and The Rock feuding with you for the entire time you were big? Trips is the ONLY thing Vince's ever created, and he's a failure without a sacrfice of talented guys waiting in line to carry him from feud to feud. And...by only thing he's ever created, you mean Hulk Hogan, The Ultimate Warrior, Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, The Undertaker, Steve Austin, The Rock, Triple H, Kurt Angle and Brock Lesnar, right? Vince's own senility..or prejudices keep him from pushing the people the fans (and not just the IWC) want, but shoving the people that fit "his vision". 6 of these wrestlers don't even fit Vince's vision of a credible "main eventer". They were all under-sized when they're originally pushed to the top, and they all got over due to their workrate. People went nuts when Jericho looked like he was about to break big, but what did we get? Triple H. People were chanting rabidly for Van Dam, but what did we get? Brock Lesnar. Eddy Guerrero's hot, but who gets the nod instead? Big Show, Nathan Jones, and company. People clamored for the Ultimate Warrior in the title chase in 1992. What did we get instead? Bret Hart. People clamored for Lex Luger and Yokozuna when in the title chase in 1994. What did we get instead? Bret Hart. People clamored for the Undertaker, Sid and Kevin Nash when in the title chase in 1996. What did we get instead? Shawn Michaels. People clamored for the Undertaker, Triple H and Austin when in the title chase in 2000. What did we get instead? Kurt Angle. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tawren 0 Report post Posted November 7, 2003 Maybe they could try, oh, I don't know, NOT DOING DRUGS? Seriously, it is that fucking easy. Just stop. And if you can't do that, go to rehab. If you can't do that, you deserve to die. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Styles 0 Report post Posted November 7, 2003 If vince was a TRUE asshole...He wouldn't let Dreamer and others even work a show anywhere else. What does that have to do with anything? I heard he bought John Cena a puppy dog too? What does that have to do with wrestlers dropping dead as the result of pressures to perform through fatigue and injuries and thus abuse drugs and pain pills and to adhere to the standard of huge bodies leading to steroid abuse. I never said Vince was an asshole but like most businessmen he thinks with his wallet and his own ego... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Styles 0 Report post Posted November 7, 2003 Maybe they could try, oh, I don't know, NOT DOING DRUGS? Seriously, it is that fucking easy. Just stop. And if you can't do that, go to rehab. If you can't do that, you deserve to die. Let's throw you on their schedule and take the bumps they take with the same pressures to be big and see how well you hold up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted November 7, 2003 Maybe they could try, oh, I don't know, NOT DOING DRUGS? Seriously, it is that fucking easy. Just stop. And if you can't do that, go to rehab. If you can't do that, you deserve to die. You ever play sports kid? Pain Killers are a god damn near neccesity to survive the pain, the pressure and the agony. The hardest thing to do is avoid getting the grip and getting addicted because it is JUST that damn easy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steviekick 0 Report post Posted November 7, 2003 I found this at 411wrestling.com Michael Lockwood, aka Crash Holly and Mad Mikey, was found dead today in Florida. He was 34. According to Dave Meltzer, he was found dead in Steven Richards' house. WWE.com had this statement: Michael Lockwood passes away World Wrestling Entertainment is saddened by the loss of Michael Lockwood, known professionally as Crash Holly. Our thoughts and prayers go out to Michael's friends and family. credit: wwe.com, wrestlingobserver.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Styles 0 Report post Posted November 7, 2003 More BREAKING news, as it happens! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted November 7, 2003 34? Damn...I had him pegged for like 27-30 range. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tawren 0 Report post Posted November 7, 2003 Maybe they could try, oh, I don't know, NOT DOING DRUGS? Seriously, it is that fucking easy. Just stop. And if you can't do that, go to rehab. If you can't do that, you deserve to die. You ever play sports kid? Pain Killers are a god damn near neccesity to survive the pain, the pressure and the agony. The hardest thing to do is avoid getting the grip and getting addicted because it is JUST that damn easy. I've never played in any big leagues or anything, but as someone who knew several people who died because they OD'ed and other drug related stuff, I have no sympathy for people who get addicted and don't do anything about it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Coffey Report post Posted November 7, 2003 No one here can't say they've gone out and gotten ridiculously drunk and varfed all over themselves. This could just be a case like that. I've never got drunk or barfed all over myself.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steviekick 0 Report post Posted November 7, 2003 34? Damn...I had him pegged for like 27-30 range. Same here...he always looked really young. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
{''({o..o})''} 0 Report post Posted November 7, 2003 That's why a wise man once said: "enough is enough and it's time for a change." As I said, if Vince can afford to pay obscene pay per view pay outs to himself and his kids, he can pay the wrestlers fair compensation while they are injured. That is a whole different issue right there. While I wish Vince & Co. weren't on tv and ppv, they are above the wrestlers in the company, as sorry as I am to say it. Nobody will run a business and pay themselves less than their employees, it just wouldn't make sense. The workers should be enjoying those spots, I agree, but if they are gonna be there, thats just part of what they have to accept. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steviekick 0 Report post Posted November 7, 2003 So who thinks this is going to make Confidential? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fökai 0 Report post Posted November 7, 2003 I've never played in any big leagues or anything, but as someone who knew several people who died because they OD'ed and other drug related stuff, I have no sympathy for people who get addicted and don't do anything about it. Taking the easy way out. Thanks for the insightful comments, Lord Master. What would we ever do without you? Play a fucking sport. See what happens. For a guy who played football and basketball for a long chunk of his life (both recreationally and in high school), I know with all the pain I endured, I have NOTHING against professional athletes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lil' Bitch 0 Report post Posted November 7, 2003 (edited) GOD DAMN IT! I fucking hate 2003! RIP Crash, thank you for the memories. Edited November 7, 2003 by Rico_Constantino Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Styles 0 Report post Posted November 7, 2003 That's why a wise man once said: "enough is enough and it's time for a change." As I said, if Vince can afford to pay obscene pay per view pay outs to himself and his kids, he can pay the wrestlers fair compensation while they are injured. That is a whole different issue right there. While I wish Vince & Co. weren't on tv and ppv, they are above the wrestlers in the company, as sorry as I am to say it. Nobody will run a business and pay themselves less than their employees, it just wouldn't make sense. The workers should be enjoying those spots, I agree, but if they are gonna be there, thats just part of what you have to accept. I think you missed my point. When I suggested they would be paid while they were out, others argued that Vince couldn't afford to pay them the same salaries while they were out, but my argument was that he could as evidenced by the huge sums of money he assigns to his family that seem to come out of thin air. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted November 7, 2003 Doubtful. Liz was a sensational story and she had a long history and was a KEY aspect for the success WWE had in the Late 80's. Crash Holly was for all acounts and purposes just a Another mid-carder that came and went. Likely just a Image and graphic. He will not get a video ala Hawk or Stu or Curt Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Styles 0 Report post Posted November 7, 2003 So who thinks this is going to make Confidential? I could see them doing a light hearted segment with highlights from his hardcore reigns. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Mandarin 0 Report post Posted November 7, 2003 (edited) Pain Killers are a god damn near neccesity to survive the pain, the pressure and the agony. That's what I was about to say. I bet you more than 3/4s of the wrestlers that use pain killers dislike them, but they NEED them, and by now they can't stop. Just to clarify, I'm not supporting painkillers or any locker room drug, though. It's a seedy business, and delusional kids who think they're going to go and make millions are gonna have their dreams shot down. If they can even make it IN, of course. Edited November 7, 2003 by CM Funk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steviekick 0 Report post Posted November 7, 2003 So who thinks this is going to make Confidential? I could see them doing a light hearted segment with highlights from his hardcore reigns. That would be nice. I also feel bad for Stevie...it must be terrible to find one of your best friends dead in your house. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
