Ranthology: Analysis of a roster

[Guest Ghettoman]

Push, exposure, push, use, push, anything but not being used.

 

No you guys must be right, if there not being used, there being pushed.

[Highland 0]

It's Suckbag Orton This, Suckbag Orton That. Your'e not giving him a CHANCE.

 

I have to agree with him on this one, the Orton hate is childish and predictable, it's almost as pathetic as not watching anything related to wwe yet posting in the wwe folder....

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

And no it's not your fault the WWE isn't as good as it was, it's your fault for continuing to watch as if nothings changed.

But there's still people I *do* enjoy watching, that I *do* enjoy marking out for, that I *do* have nice things to say about.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

It's Suckbag Orton This, Suckbag Orton That. Your'e not giving him a CHANCE.

 

I have to agree with him on this one, the Orton hate is childish and predictable, it's almost as pathetic as not watching anything related to wwe yet posting in the wwe folder....

It's too bad that Dave made that point completely out of context to what I was discussing.

 

Frankly, I think some are using the "Suckbag" name because some of you are just so darn sensitive about the subject, thus encouraging more of it.

[Guest Ghettoman]

So Spaceman whats easier putting yourself through the torture of the rest of it, or focusing your energy towards those things that give you enjoyment?

 

Needless negativity. The WWE is a luxury, remember that.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

So's this forum, in a lesser sense. Yet you still hang around despite angering yourself almost every time you read a thread.

[Murmuring Beast 0]

You give journalists a bad name.

[Guest Ghettoman]

I'm not angered, it's more of a distaste, or gross disappointment in part of humanity. But this is about learning and discussing, two things I always do so the same logic doesn't apply.

 

I mean has anyone heard of a person who watches the George Lopez show every week, yet talks about how it's total garbage all the time?

 

And again, using another's weakness to set the bar for yourself is a really, really pathetic thing to do.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

It's a good thing then that I didn't use your admitted 'weakness' to set the bar for myself. I wasn't talking about myself.

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

So Spaceman whats easier putting yourself through the torture of the rest of it, or focusing your energy towards those things that give you enjoyment?

 

Needless negativity. The WWE is a luxury, remember that.

Well, if it's people I enjoy watching, I'll watch. If there's people I don't care about, I'll either change the channel, or roll my eyes & sigh to myself. I don't get as worked up about it as some other people.

 

I won't ignore the entire show just because there's some stuff I don't like.

[Guest Ghettoman]

There's not much of a difference between defending yourself and talking about your self Mullato.

 

And Spaceman, in that case why don't I only see you around here to talk about what you like, why does it seem the majority of everyone who regulars this forum has a 80/20 negative to positive ratio going with there posts? I mean if what they posted was any sign, I'd be led to believe most of you ONLY watch what you consider the bad stuff.

 

It's just such a waste of energy.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

There's not much of a difference between defending yourself and talking about your self Mullato.

I wasn't even defending myself. I was talking about a previous response of yours to Spiff. But I can tell that you're totally worked up and not thinking straight, so I understand.

 

It's just such a waste of energy.

 

So are most of your smarmy comments. Like from last November where you were trying to praise Nathan Jones because he didn't botch any spots in a tag match on Smackdown. I believe you said something to the effect of "is it still cool to bash Jones around here because he wasn't offensive last night". It's stuff like that which bring the word 'apologist' to mind.

[Guest Loss]

80/20 is appropriate given that's about the bad-good ratio of WWE programming. I'd say that's reflective of WWE itself.

 

Wrestling is like a child and it's been a huge hobby my entire life. I try my best to always look for the good, but I'd be unfair to not point out the bad when I see that too.

 

Point of the child analogy is that you stick with the kid hoping he turns his life around instead of disowning him the minute he steals your car and joyrides through town.

 

The turnaround could literally happen at any time. When we've invested so much time, energy and money in the product, some of us want to be there when it happens.

 

You might say we're fools for continuing to care, and I might be inclined to agree, but when people stop talking about WWE, that's when the company is dead.

 

If anything, still watching in the face of it all shows an overwhelmingly positive attitude and willingness to give the company a chance to right past wrongs. It's not the fault of anyone here that WWE is not making good on that offer.

[Guest Goodear]

Caveat One. I like the OVW Grads over anyone brought in post-Radicalz. That includes the entire WCW Roster. Basically, If you go through OVW, then you're what the WWE wants in a worker.

 

Absolutely correct. WWE wants guys who do basic things and gain reactions based on character more than ring action. Look at Cena and Brock and you will see this policy when it works out. If you ever see someone in WWE toss out a Tiger Driver '91 in the middle of a match... you'll know Vince isn't in control anymore.

 

In a nutshell, thats why the Bashams are on Smackdown, and London aint, but thats another rant. The sole exception to this is Rosey.

 

Rosey was actually trained in HWA when that was the other development league. Basically, no body else came out of there that the WWE wanted to use. So that explains why they aren't a developmental anymore.

 

Caveat Two. Adapt or Die. The sole reason I hate cruiserweights (and I do) is this. I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with the WWE's policy on banning every third move, and most of the highspots.

 

Indeed, the four most pushed sub-200 pounders are Rey, Tajiri, Noble, and Nunzio... none of which are supreme spotfest workers (anymore in the case of Rey). WWE has no interest in re-creating the WCW cruiserweight division with a bunch of spot fu and lackluster characters that people didn't really invest in like Super Calo and Lizmark Jr.

 

The chicks (except Kiebler and Jackie Gayda)

- Bleh. They're all decent workers - its just a pity there's not more of them.

 

I wish they would try and add a little more variety to the women's division as well. As much as I like Ivory, I don't see her working a match any differently than Jacky. They need to work a few more styles or at least highlight the differences a bit more in the matches.

 

Stacy Kiebler

They could have done more with the Test angle if they would have had a charismatic face underdog go in there to play Lancelot. But with just having Foley go "Oh, thats over" they wasted the chance. Now Stacy is like Dawn Marie... just sort of hanging around for no reason.

 

Batista.

- Massively limited worker, but i'd blame that on injuries. Persoanlly I think his look and build are great - but he'll only ever do a glorified bodyguard character, which makes me cry.

 

They need to round Batista out a bit more to give him more of a personality. He just doesn't seem to fit with the rest of the cocky heels in Evolution being a ass kicker. I can't ever see him getting to main events right now. Needs to work on execution and the spaces between his major spots.

 

Booker T

 

The issue with Booker T retiring in the next few years with the back injury is thatjust by the time they would have him established as a main eventer, he would be out of the business. So I would have to agree with a no main eventer status for him although I would certainly find a way to use him more effectively in the midcard.

 

The Dudleys

- Like the workers, hate the characters

 

I think they were born a few decades too late and would have killed in the 80s. But they area a little too retro to be effective in the same card position for so long.

 

Chris Jericho

- He's dead - Deal with it.

 

I can't imagine that the WWE has big plans for him at this point. But the face turn might give him a bit more direction and move him into some fresher matchups that could improve his card position.

 

Christian.

- Haircut was the best thing to happen to him. Decent all round worker. A more realistic finisher and less of a relialance on rest-holds would be a great help.

 

Agreed on all fronts.

 

Garrilance Cade/Jindrak.

 

I would have liked it more if they would have been a bit more overt with the heel turn. I think these guys need a bit of a hook to them that they don't currently havce to take off. I don't have a problem with their ring work though.

 

Goldberg

 

They need to find a medium between WCW Goldberg that kills all that walks and WWE Goldberg who seems to get beat up all the time.

 

Kane

-Dead, deal with it. Which baffles me frankly.

 

Yup.

 

Mark Henry.

-Outright smartest guy in the biz.

 

I don't know about that but Mark has really managed to make his first improvements as a worker since the NOD days in the last few months. Has finally learned how to present himself as a monster and even put himself over in defeat which is always a plus.

 

Randy Orton

 

Still learning. Overpushed a bit but I honestly don't have a single problem with his work other than having to work on his offense (which is the last thing a worker should work on BTW).

 

The Frechies.

 

Loved em both as soon as the tag belts went away with Grenier. Have a nice insta-heat gimmick that requires nothing in the way of push but works to their strengths becasue both are natural heels.

 

Rico.

-If he was five years younger, he'd be pushed hard.

 

I'll buy that for a dollar.

 

Jackie Gayda

 

Not bad in a managerial role. Always seems into the matches regardless of their relative importance.

 

Rob Van Dam

-Lazy, sloppy, overhyped loser. Has outright says he wants to leave.

 

I repeat what I have said time and time again: when you can tell if a wrestler is going to win or lose based on how fast they move, you have a wrestler that you don't need on the roster.

 

Test/Scott Steiner

 

Midcard roadblocks, every company should have some. I think they both know what they are as well so you don't have to worry about ego exploding.

 

HHH-HBK.

 

Do they deserve to be on top???????

 

HBK yes oddly enough since he's become like the best worker on the brand and seems to be back for a full time basis. Triple H NEEDS to get away from the title and get into a blood feud in order to keep the top of the card fresh and to regain a bit of momentum.

[AndrewTS 0]

BTW, if I get banned because I like Randy Orton, as some people here clearly want - I'll laugh my head off.

 

No, you'll get banned because you act like a jackass.

 

Caveat One. I like the OVW Grads over anyone brought in post-Radicalz. That includes the entire WCW Roster. Basically, If you go through OVW, then you're what the WWE wants in a worker.

In a nutshell, thats why the Bashams are on Smackdown, and London aint, but thats another rant. The sole exception to this is Rosey.

 

Then why hire them if you're going to attempt to do anything with them?

 

Caveat Two. Adapt or Die. The sole reason I hate cruiserweights (and I do) is this. I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with the WWE's policy on banning every third move, and most of the highspots. If HHH and HBK can go out there and hit **** without trying - so can Rey Rey and anyone else "castrated" by the WWE Ring Policy. This is tied into the OVW Theroy aswell.

 

HHH hits **** without trying? I don't think so. HHH hit **** when HBK carried his gimp ass, and that was once. The second match sucked, and the third match, while good, wasn't that good.

 

The chicks (except Kiebler and Jackie Gayda)

- Bleh. They're all decent workers

 

Right out of the gate, you make me laugh. Molly's a decent worker, and for a North American female wrestler, she's very good. However, the rest suck. Trish can bump but her offense blows. The rest of the females are varying degrees of suck.

 

Stacy Kiebler

-Pointless waste of space.

 

She's ti--well, legs and ass. She at least looks a bit different than the typical blond bimbos WWE trots out. However, that's all I can say good about her.

 

Batista.

- Massively limited worker, but i'd blame that on injuries.

 

He sucked before he was injured, doing 3 different versions of the chokeslam and a spinebuster.

 

Persoanlly I think his look and build are great - but he'll only ever do a glorified bodyguard character, which makes me cry.

 

No, he's going to be pushed to the moon by WWE because he's the kind of guy they want to push AND he is decent on the mic, which would make me cry if I paid attention to WWE much anymore.

 

Booker T.

-Lazy Inconsiderate gobshite. The guy says he wants to retire, which frankly is justification enough to bury him.

 

He calls himself a journalist. He said in a couple years, and I guess they should bury HHH now because with his injuries he's not going to be wrestling in two years.

 

The Dudleys

- Like the workers, hate the characters

 

Eh, that's about my opinion, but their ring work doesn't thrill me other. They've been lazy for a long time.

 

Chris Jericho

- He's dead - Deal with it.

 

What a painstaking analysis you have there. Jericho's bulletproof, deal with it. If WWE wanted to give him a serious push, he'd be able to be run with it because he can get the job done in every way.

 

Christian.

- Haircut was the best thing to happen to him. Decent all round worker. A more realistic finisher and less of a relialance on rest-holds would be a great help.

 

Boring worker, decent on the mic. In WWE he's nothing but a bump machine and that's all they'll use him as. I can accept that.

 

Garrilance Cade/Jindrak.

- Love them to bits. Jindrak particulary because he's proff that adapting to the WWE Moveset pays off, unlike Sean O'Haire. Cade looks bland compared to him - but decent teaming will pay off in the end.

 

What?

 

Don't care about them.

 

Goldberg.

-I'm gonna be so happy when Brock squashes him at WM. Lazy arsehole who believed he was gonna be treated like he was in WCW!!! and refuses point blank to adapt. GET OFF MY TV

 

You're a moronic knee-jerk Goldberg-hater. He has adapted somewhat, and if Vince didn't want to deal with him he shouldn't have signed him and given him creative control. Blame Vince, not him.

 

I don't like him as a worker but even I'll admit that I don't hate him as much as I did when he was in WCW. However, I don't think that the sacrifices made to push him right to the top are worth it.

 

Kane

-Dead, deal with it. Which baffles me frankly. A better all rounder would have come out of that Shane O'Mac feud better.

 

Deal with what? Deal with the fact that he was drawing decent ratings until Shane made him his bitch in that feud? Most of us agree with that.

 

Lance Storm/Val Venis

- Dear God. Currently fighting for the Raw Spot that Orlando Jordan occupies on Smackdown - all purpose jobber.

 

Above-average workers plagued by injuries. Storm lacks the charisma to be a star. Venis is a great actor with more charisma than most who could be an upper midcarder easily if he had a decent character and could stay free of injury.

 

Mark Henry.

-Outright smartest guy in the biz. Takes whatever the WWE throws at him, laughs it off and gets his big fat paycheck at the end of the week. Deserves his push as a result.

 

HHH is smarter.

 

Henry still does not deserve his push, though.

 

Maven

-I hate the TE guys outright.

 

*ding, ding*

 

Randy Orton

- The Future. Great worker, still learning, which is scary. Amazing charisma and promo ability. Natural successor to The Rock.

 

*Buries the needle on the Bullshit-o-Meter*

 

Rock's not that hard to match in ring skills, because he doesn't do many moves but does them with full force and he either doesn't sell or oversells. Orton doesn't have 1/10 of Rock's charisma, which was apparent right as he came back with the big heel turn and was cutting kick ass promos and got better from there.

 

The Frechies.

-Conway I love to bits. If he had Orton's build, he's be in that spot for sure. Dupree deserves a push on the basis of having to carry Grenier as a partner for six months. I like his dance aswell.

 

Conway > Orton, and at Dupree's age he could be an excellent worker in a few years if he tries to improve.

 

Grenier is worthless. Fire him.

 

Rico.

-If he was five years younger, he'd be pushed hard.

Jackie Gayda

-Yikes. Nice rack

 

*ding, ding*

 

Rosey and Hurricane.

- Hurricane's an interesting case. They took all his flashy moves out, like the vertebreaker and the X-Plex, and he didn't bother replacing them, leaving frankly the same as Rey Mysterio - a shell doing the same few moves. And the aren't great moves to begin with.

 

-Rosey I out and out despise. Cartoon characters died when Flair won the rumble.

 

Hurricane's entertaining, and while he's too scrawny to be a World Title threat, he should be a midcarder and be milked for merchandise.

 

Rosey's not the worst worker in the world, but his willingness to do whatever WWE asks him to do will probably pay off in a push later, not that that's a good thing.

 

Rob Van Dam

-Lazy, sloppy, overhyped loser. Has outright says he wants to leave. I wholeheartedly agree.It must be so nice knowing you owe your entire career to Jerry Lynn. GET OFF MY TV.

 

I like RVD but I admit his faults. I'd rather have Lynn on the roster instead right now if he'd be used right, but he probably wouldn't be.

 

Test/Scott Steiner.

- Steiner I don't care about - but I like his character. Test is an interesting case - I wanna find out who booked him post Russo, and beat him over the head with a hockey Stick, because he's a solid worker on a good day.

 

Fire them.

 

Test a solid worker? You're an idiot, unless by "solid" you're referring to human waste.

 

HHH-HBK.

 

Do they deserve to be on top???????

 

Not really, but when was the last time Booker and RVD got ****1/4

 

When was the last time HHH-HBK got ****1/4?

 

Also, you do realize WWE doesn't give a damn about how good your matches are, so this point is moot, right?

 

HBK is great, but is there a reason that he's a main eventer now other than that he was one in 96-98?

Edited January 20, 2004 by AndrewTS

[Highland 0]

Christian.

- Haircut was the best thing to happen to him. Decent all round worker. A more realistic finisher and less of a relialance on rest-holds would be a great help.

 

Boring worker, decent on the mic. In WWE he's nothing but a bump machine and that's all they'll use him as. I can accept that.

 

 

 

Is anyone else of the opinion that the whole of the E&C tag team was greater than the sum of its parts?

[Guest Ghettoman]

I wasn't even defending myself. I was talking about a previous response of yours to Spiff. But I can tell that you're totally worked up and not thinking straight, so I understand.

 

You must have long arms because you like to reach....

 

You said:

 

"So's this forum, in a lesser sense. Yet you still hang around despite angering yourself almost every time you read a thread. "

 

I replied:

 

"I'm not angered, it's more of a distaste, or gross disappointment in part of humanity. But this is about learning and discussing, two things I always do so the same logic doesn't apply."

 

And continued with:

 

"And again, using another's weakness to set the bar for yourself is a really, really pathetic thing to do. "

 

All I did was reply to what you wrote, I didn't implicate you simply commented on the act.

 

You replied with:

 

"It's a good thing then that I didn't use your admitted 'weakness' to set the bar for myself. I wasn't talking about myself. "

 

Your defending the point for a reason, to take the jump from me actually disagreeing with something to saying I agreed fully with "admitted weakness" just shows your leading yourself through this without actually replying to whats said.

 

I don't expand much energy on forums, I like to discuss and debate for the sake of it, I like the characters, I like it in general, it's why I continue to come around. I just don't see why people who generally dislike the WWE continue to watch and follow it, as if only to criticize it.

 

If something good happens, you know you'll most likely here about it, why put yourself through the pain in the meantime if you have the choice not to? Is the WWE that good at keeping you all hooked?

 

I just don't get it, wrestling can be a hobby if you wrestle, or collect tapes, or merchandise or something, but right now, Smackdown and Raw are television programs, if you guys were watching PPVS and critiquing the matches, ok, but your watching TV programs, and it just doesn't make sense to keep watching if it's as bad as one says.

[Guest Ghettoman]

Is anyone else of the opinion that the whole of the E&C tag team was greater than the sum of its parts?

 

Edge had a good year on his own but just didn't really go anywhere character wise, Christian wasn't really used at the level he should of been. I think the difference is they were both fresh and being used well when EC was hot.

[AndrewTS 0]

Absolutely correct.  WWE wants guys who do basic things and gain reactions based on character more than ring action.  Look at Cena and Brock and you will see this policy when it works out.  If you ever see someone in WWE toss out a Tiger Driver '91 in the middle of a match... you'll know Vince isn't in control anymore.

Then explain the uncharismatic slugs and horribly bland OVW workers. They can't do the basics and they have no character.

 

Brock doesn't have much of a character, he just has natural charisma but it was that and his ring work that got him over. Most of Brock's current success was due to push, marketing, his impressive ability AND strength, and a well-timed face turn.

 

Cena found a character after about a year in WWE where he was pushed over Jericho in a fruitless feud. Shouldn't they be helping them find characters right away instead of trotting them out there with nothing?

 

If those other guys aren't going to be used, again I ask: why sign them? WWE has plenty of jobbers who could at least be improving as workers if they aren't going to be pushed.

 

Indeed, the four most pushed sub-200 pounders are Rey, Tajiri, Noble, and Nunzio... none of which are supreme spotfest workers (anymore in the case of Rey).  WWE has no interest in re-creating the WCW cruiserweight division with a bunch of spot fu and lackluster characters that people didn't really invest in like Super Calo and Lizmark Jr.

 

Explain why Kidman still has a job, then. Explain why the hell they bothered hiring Ultimo.

 

Don't say "to keep anyone else from having them" because TNA isn't that big a threat, and if that isn't the product Vince is presenting why should he care if he doesn't have those workers? They're catering to different audiences and they aren't even competing head to head.

 

They could have done more with the Test angle if they would have had a charismatic face underdog go in there to play Lancelot.  But with just having Foley go "Oh, thats over" they wasted the chance.  Now Stacy is like Dawn Marie... just sort of hanging around for no reason.

 

In other words, that was a long, pointless feud. It made no money, helped no one, didn't provide a decent storyline and was complete crap other than Stacy fanservice.

 

They need to round Batista out a bit more to give him more of a personality.  He just doesn't seem to fit with the rest of the cocky heels in Evolution being a ass kicker.  I can't ever see him getting to main events right now.  Needs to work on execution and the spaces between his major spots.

 

Agreed.

 

Randy Orton

 

Still learning. Overpushed a bit but I honestly don't have a single problem with his work other than having to work on his offense (which is the last thing a worker should work on BTW).

 

Let him learn and work on his offense on Heat and the Raw undercard then.

 

Loved em both as soon as the tag belts went away with Grenier.  Have a nice insta-heat gimmick that requires nothing in the way of push but works to their strengths becasue both are natural heels.

 

Nobody remembers or cares why they should be heels. Repackage, please.

[Guest Ghettoman]

Then explain the uncharismatic slugs and horribly bland OVW workers. They can't do the basics and they have no character.

 

Comes with exposure and experience. Everyone's used to a time where people came up elsewhere or unnoticed, it's what made WWE and WCW seem like "the major leagues". Now that luxury no longer exists, so they have to really try and use and develope the guys at the same time, which is better in the long run but tough early on.

[AndrewTS 0]

Is anyone else of the opinion that the whole of the E&C tag team was greater than the sum of its parts?

 

Is anyone not of that opinion? The team was entertaining in and out of the ring, were part of some of the funniest segments on WWF TV ever, they'd worked solid wrestling matches and spotfests alike with many other teams, and always drew great reactions as heels.

 

Before they teamed up, Edge was a sloppy spot worker who had no character and couldn't work a mic worth a damn. Afterward, Edge was a bland, overpushed babyface who had some good matches but didn't really develop a great singles character. He was just one-half of that kick-ass E&C team.

 

Christian's been great with Jericho, and he's pretty good on the mic, but he fizzles as a singles wrestler. When he only has to work for part of a match and bump, his limited ring skills aren't a problem. He gets exposed in singles matches where on a good night he can reach about **. I'm shocked they haven't paired him with Gunn and prayed for a miracle.

[Guest Dave O'Neill, Journalist]

You give journalists a bad name.

Well, you're the nine billionth person to say that. It would be accurate if I was working at the moment - which I'm not.

 

Is anyone else of the opinion that the whole of the E&C tag team was greater than the sum of its parts?

 

Yes, very much so. Part of the reason the tag division sucks balls is because none of the teams play off each other - E&C and the Hardys did this so well, and made the feud worthwhile.

 

Then why hire them if you're going to attempt to do anything with them?

 

Same reason Da Bisch hired The Flock - Hey Vince, look at all this indy talent i'm paying to sit in the crowd.

 

and I guess they should bury HHH now because with his injuries he's not going to be wrestling in two years.

 

HHH hasn't publicly said he wants to do something else.

 

Goldberg-hater

 

Yeah

 

Rosey's not the worst worker in the world, but his willingness to do whatever WWE asks him to do will probably pay off in a push later, not that that's a good thing.

 

Which is exactly what they're doing with Mark Henry

 

I can't imagine that the WWE has big plans for him at this point. But the face turn might give him a bit more direction and move him into some fresher matchups that could improve his card position.

 

Face turn.........HHH beats him again in a thrown together match??

[SamoaRowe 0]

After reading the initial post in this thread, i'm a bit surprised this thread isn't 10 pages by now...

 

 

My two cents:

 

Randy Orton is not that bad, he's just not that good. If you ever hear me calling him "Suckbag" it's because the name amuses me. In fact, the "Suckbag" nickname probably gave him 10 points of overness to me.

 

 

Booker T: How can anyone call this guy an asshole? The guy does whatever he's told, is working with a increasingly hurt back, and has always been about his fans. The guy made a surprise appearance with RVD at our local Hooters the last time WWE came to Manchester. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

 

 

Rob Van Dam: I've been more understanding of the hate towards RVD in recent weeks, but he's still not a bad worker by any means.

 

 

Maybe I'll post more if I think of it.

[AndrewTS 0]

Then explain the uncharismatic slugs and horribly bland OVW workers. They can't do the basics and they have no character.

 

Comes with exposure and experience. Everyone's used to a time where people came up elsewhere or unnoticed, it's what made WWE and WCW seem like "the major leagues". Now that luxury no longer exists, so they have to really try and use and develope the guys at the same time, which is better in the long run but tough early on.

Come again? When you watch the guys working in a farm league, you can tell which guys have the basics down and have charisma. If they're so abysmal they *can't do the basics*, don't put them on TV.

 

Example: Nathan Jones. Worthless in every way imaginable. Can't work in the ring, can't work on a mic. He's too goofy-looking to even be a bodyguard, but too unstable and ill-tempered to do comedy. His size isn't a big deal on SD where there are bigger guys.

 

There isn't a single good reason he was hired.

 

Mark Henry: See above.

[SamoaRowe 0]

Mark Henry does have some charisma. I remember finding him pretty amusing back when he was a pervert.

[Guest Dave O'Neill, Journalist]

Nobody remembers or cares why they should be heels. Repackage, please.

 

That'd be fine - except then you have to go through with pushing them as characters. As Goodear said - the natural heat the Evil Frenchie gimmick gets is fine until they develop further

 

Booker T: How can anyone call this guy an asshole

 

Because they're people on the indies more talented than him who aren't bleating about retirement. I don't outright HATE him, I just think his atttude stinks.

 

Then explain the uncharismatic slugs and horribly bland OVW workers

 

Apathy. Again,as Goodear pointed out, VKM is determined to get these idiots over for who they are, which is why Garrilance and Jindrak don't have cutesy tag name. The fans care mre about sitting on their hands.

 

Don't say "to keep anyone else from having them

 

Nope,it is that, and Vince just being Vince

[SamoaRowe 0]

Booker T: How can anyone call this guy an asshole

 

Because they're people on the indies more talented than him who aren't bleating about retirement. I don't outright HATE him, I just think his atttude stinks.

Booker T has paid his dues though. He doesn't have much time left either, and it's not as if he's getting a big push or anything. Right now, seeing Booker T get a world title win (or just a big win in general) would make me happier than seeing just about anyone else succeed.

[AndrewTS 0]

That'd be fine - except then you have to go through with pushing them as characters. As Goodear said - the natural heat the Evil Frenchie gimmick gets is fine until they develop further

 

So you think that WWE should have their guys "develop" before pushing them as new characters? That's a novel concept that I don't disagree with, but WWE doesn't do it much.

 

Because they're people on the indies more talented than him who aren't bleating about retirement. I don't outright HATE him, I just think his atttude stinks.

 

What a horrible attitude. Sign with WWE before anyone else, get buried, start from scratch and get over, get buried, get pushed to the main event, get humilated with racist comments, lose, get buried, retire because of back problems, come back because you think you have a couple years left in you but don't think you'll be able to work much more than that, get used barely at all...

 

Yeah, what a selfish son of a bitch. Let's bury him!

 

Apathy. Again,as Goodear pointed out, VKM is determined to get these idiots over for who they are, which is why Garrilance and Jindrak don't have cutesy tag name. The fans care mre about sitting on their hands.

 

But Vince doesn't want wrestlers to get over for their wrestling and punishes them if they do, refusing to even give them a chance. He wants to get these young guys over without a character, so he doesn't give them one or let them develop one for a while.

 

Nevermind that popular characters are the ones that have become proven main eventers and draw money. Nevermind that over midcarders only draw when they are characters the fans care about. Jindrak and Cade, yeah, that'll put butts in seats.

 

If their wrestling sucks and they're devoid of any sort of character, why the hell should the fans care about them?

 

A few years ago, WWF had popular money-drawing characters, and popular, likeable characters that, even if they didn't draw money by themselves, were fun to watch and get into, some of them also were good wrestlers.

 

Right now, the guys on top are stale and boring, and the guys being pushed as midcarders and future main eventers are mostly bland, devoid of character, and suck in the ring. So I fail to see a bright future for anyone but the few who are developing characters that are gonna click with the fans. Even so, if they only have a couple, not that many people are going to stick around to watch the void of nothingness and blah surrounding them.

 

Nope,it is that, and Vince just being Vince

 

Yeah, but it makes no sense. *looks at own sig* Yeah, yeah...

 

However, having all those guys under contract he isn't using who wouldn't be a threat to him if they went elsewhere is stupid. He could use that money to fund another bound-to-fail non-wrestling project.

Edited January 20, 2004 by AndrewTS

[Guest Goodear]

Then explain the uncharismatic slugs and horribly bland OVW workers.  They can't do the basics and they have no character.

 

I would dispute that the OVW guys can't do the basics. Even Jindrak, Cade and Orlando can do the basics in the ring as far as simple match construction and bumping are concerned. They are up on Heat for the most point in order to get comfortable in front of a audience while hopefully coming up with a hook that will help them get over. They are 'sound' in my opinion just not good. The Hoss guys like Heidenreich and Morgan are up because no one else in the country seems to have the ability to develop super heavyweights other than Vince right now.

 

Brock doesn't have much of a character, he just has natural charisma but it was that and his ring work that got him over.  Most of Brock's current success was due to push, marketing, his impressive ability AND strength, and a well-timed face turn.

 

Brock's strength and ability IS his character. They pushed him as a big monster with mad skills. That's his character... its actually a whole lot like Benoit's except with more size.

 

Cena found a character after about a year in WWE where he was pushed over Jericho in a fruitless feud.  Shouldn't they be helping them find characters right away instead of trotting them out there with nothing?

 

Not always. Shoving a guy into a gimmick they aren't comfortable with and aren't good at working can ruin a guy. Plus its easy to forget that Cena was Blando for a while since it was so bland. If he had been a rapper first and it bombed it would be a whole lot harder to move beyond that (see Bob Holly). Put guys out there in smaller roles until you get a feel for their personalities and can have a gimmick that fits them well.

 

PS: This is a drastic change from the way WWF used to bring people in. But with the new importance of developmentals and reduced reliance on indys and WCW, the methodolodgy has changed.

 

Explain why Kidman still has a job, then.  Explain why the hell they bothered hiring Ultimo.

 

Kidman got hired in the WCW buy out and they most likely thought he would be able to bring his audience from there to WWE. That didn't happen. Turns out Kidman managed to catch lightning in a bottle in WCW and had a hot couple of years. They hired Ultimo because they thought he would be more 'fan friendly' and people would be able to get into him pretty quickly. Didn't happen.

 

Don't say "to keep anyone else from having them" because TNA isn't that big a threat, and if that isn't the product Vince is presenting why should he care if he doesn't have those workers?  They're catering to different audiences and they aren't even competing head to head.

 

Because they signed contracts and still have time on them? Vince doesn't normally just fire guys anymore regardless of their lack of whatever it is that WWE is looking for.

 

In other words, that was a long, pointless feud.  It made no money, helped no one, didn't provide a decent storyline and was complete crap other than Stacy fanservice.

 

Yes. It could have. But it didn't.

 

Let [Randy Orton] learn and work on his offense on Heat and the Raw undercard then.

 

But offense is EASY to work on. How else do you think The Rock managed to change his over the years while still working with the company. I'm simply telling you what Orton's in-match problem is from a pure wrestling perspective and saying its not a big deal.

 

Nobody remembers or cares why they should be heels.  Repackage, please.

 

They're heels because they're EVIL FOREIGNERS who hate America. It's not rocket science and it isn't even a really big part of their matches anymore now that they are just waiving a French flag around... Dino Bravo did the same thing with the Quebec flag for years and had almost nothing to do with his feuds.

[bob_barron 0]

Booker T: How can anyone call this guy an asshole

 

 

Because they're people on the indies more talented than him who aren't bleating about retirement. I don't outright HATE him, I just think his atttude stinks.

 

He doesn't bleat about retirement. When people in interviews asked him about his future (since he is getting up there) he said he plans on retiring in a few years.

 

Would you rather him lie and then just one day go up to Vince and say:

 

Hey dawg- I'm qutting the biz. Now can you dig that.....

 

 

SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCKA.

 

What about his attitude do you not like? That the guy has been treated like shit ever since he came into the company yet still gives it all and still has a love for the business?

 

I just don't see how someone publically saying they won't wrestle until their crippled (Like Terry Funk) has a bad attitude.