WWF 97-98

[JoeDirt 0]

1) Did Rock do a big heel turn to join the Nation, or did he just sort of come back and was placed with them? How did his feud with Austin in late 97 come about?

 

2) When did Ahmed refuse to job to Kurrgan and leave the WWF? Was that when Kurrgan was Interogator in the Truth Commission?

 

3) How did Ahmed get hurt before his supposed title shot at Taker? How did he turn heel and join the Nation?

 

4) DX were heels at the April 98 PPV, Unforgiven, and faces by Over the Edge in May. How did they turn face? Or was it still just shades of gray?

 

5) I think the whole Kane storyline started after KOTR 97...Kane, though, wasn't brought in until Badd Blood in October. Was this to just let the storyline build a bit? Did the WWF always know that Glen Jacobs was going to be Kane?

 

6) How did the first HIAC match come about? Like, did they just announce it, or was a challenge made by Taker, etc.

 

I'll probably add more later...but thanks!!!

[Guest drdrainoscott]

1. He was injured and returned one night on Raw by attacking Ahmed. His fued with Austin came about for no other reason then he was the #1 contender. Vince got behind Rocky because he was a "company" guy while Austin was a rebel. This foreshadowing the McMahon/Austin fued.

 

3. Ahmed always got hurt. I believe this time it was in a match with Faroouq.

 

4. They were always shades of grey. It depended on who they were fighting usually.

 

5. I remember that Glen Jacobs, who was Unibomb in USWA, was told to begin growing his hair out in anticipation of him becoming Kane months before he debuted.

[Guest ravman77]

From what I can remember -

 

1) He did a run-in on an Ahmed match following a ref bump wearing a refs shirt. Im pretty sure he got a small "welcome back" pop as he hit the ring. Anyway, he turned on Ahmed instead of making the count and the rest is history.

 

2)Not sure when the match was but it was when Kurrgan was still the Interrigator. Vince was looking for a name to job to his clawhold and Ahmed refused.

 

3)Farooq sacked Savio and Crush and said the next incarnation of the NOD would be 'blacker'. The following Raw, Kama joined up at the start and the ME was Kama/Farooq vs Shamrock/Ahmed. You can guess the end...

 

4)My guess was heavy exposure with stuff like the WCW Invasion skits and the returning X-Pac who was getting decent pops. Plus they were fueding with the Nation who were heels.

 

5)Funnily enough, I remember wwf.com running a poll at the time getting people to vote on possible people being his brother such as Vader or Sid. Anyway, it was pretty much a given that it was going to be Jacobs.

 

6)It followed on from the Ground Zero (?) match where there was a shitload of interference. The announcers billed it as the only way it could be Taker/HBK with no interference from DX and no escape.

 

Im pretty sure the above is all on the money, if Im wrong please feel free to correct me!

[Tawren 0]

1) Did Rock do a big heel turn to join the Nation, or did he just sort of come back and was placed with them? How did his feud with Austin in late 97 come about?

Rock returned from an injury and helped Faarooq win a match. His feud with Austin began over Vince McMahon backing Rock as IC champ.

 

5) I think the whole Kane storyline started after KOTR 97...Kane, though, wasn't brought in until Badd Blood in October. Was this to just let the storyline build a bit? Did the WWF always know that Glen Jacobs was going to be Kane?

Yes. It was to build up to Kane's debut.

 

6) How did the first HIAC match come about? Like, did they just announce it, or was a challenge made by Taker, etc.

HBK cost Taker the belt at SummerSlam 1997, and at Ground Zero they had a rematch. Several referees were knocked out in the Ground Zero match and it ended in a big no contest. They did a couple tag matches and such afterwards but it always ended with DX helping HBK beat Taker. So the HIAC came about to stop DX from interfering and make sure that it was just 1 on 1.

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

From what I can remember -

 

1) He did a run-in on an Ahmed match following a ref bump wearing a refs shirt. Im pretty sure he got a small "welcome back" pop as he hit the ring. Anyway, he turned on Ahmed instead of making the count and the rest is history.

 

2)Not sure when the match was but it was when Kurrgan was still the Interrigator. Vince was looking for a name to job to his clawhold and Ahmed refused.

 

3)Farooq sacked Savio and Crush and said the next incarnation of the NOD would be 'blacker'. The following Raw, Kama joined up at the start and the ME was Kama/Farooq vs Shamrock/Ahmed. You can guess the end...

 

4)My guess was heavy exposure with stuff like the WCW Invasion skits and the returning X-Pac who was getting decent pops. Plus they were fueding with the Nation who were heels.

 

5)Funnily enough, I remember wwf.com running a poll at the time getting people to vote on possible people being his brother such as Vader or Sid. Anyway, it was pretty much a given that it was going to be Jacobs.

 

6)It followed on from the Ground Zero (?) match where there was a shitload of interference. The announcers billed it as the only way it could be Taker/HBK with no interference from DX and no escape.

 

Im pretty sure the above is all on the money, if Im wrong please feel free to correct me!

Actually for #3, Ahmed teamed with UT to face Faarooq/Kama when he turned. I was watching on and off every few weeks so I was kind of going "WTF?" at all of it.

[cawthon777 0]

3)Farooq sacked Savio and Crush and said the next incarnation of the NOD would be 'blacker'. The following Raw, Kama joined up at the start and the ME was Kama/Farooq vs Shamrock/Ahmed. You can guess the end...

Undertaker was Ahmed's partner and was pinned after receiving the Pearl River Plunge. The announcers made it out to sound like Ahmed didn't turn heel for the hell of it - he did so to wake Taker up (Taker was giving into Paul Bearer's demands on a weekly basis at this point so that Paul wouldn't tell the people about Kane). So Ahmed wasn't really a heel ... but he was with the Nation and was acting heel ... then he was supposed to get the title shot - which would have resolved all this, I'm assuming - but was injured and replaced by Vader.

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

3)Farooq sacked Savio and Crush and said the next incarnation of the NOD would be 'blacker'. The following Raw, Kama joined up at the start and the ME was Kama/Farooq vs Shamrock/Ahmed. You can guess the end...

Undertaker was Ahmed's partner and was pinned after receiving the Pearl River Plunge. The announcers made it out to sound like Ahmed didn't turn heel for the hell of it - he did so to wake Taker up (Taker was giving into Paul Bearer's demands on a weekly basis at this point so that Paul wouldn't tell the people about Kane). So Ahmed wasn't really a heel ... but he was with the Nation and was acting heel ... then he was supposed to get the title shot - which would have resolved all this, I'm assuming - but was injured and replaced by Vader.

And we were given a ***+ match at Canadian Stampede instead of a almost graunteed shit-fest of Ahmed vs. UT.

[Guest ravman77]

I remember Farooq getting a title shot at Taker around this time at a PPV with pretty heavy racial undertones and Farooq claiming he'd be the first ever black WWF champ. It was around about the time Bearer was blackmailing him with the whole Kane story.

 

PS - I was in 2 minds as to whether the answer to 3 was Shamrock/Ahmed or Taker/Ahmed. Guess I picked the wrong one!

[Guest Askewniverse]

1) Did Rock do a big heel turn to join the Nation, or did he just sort of come back and was placed with them? How did his feud with Austin in late 97 come about?

Rocky's heel turn pretty much came out of nowhere. Rocky got injured shortly after IYH: A Cold Day in Hell. He made a surprise return on Raw (8/11/97) during a Faarooq vs. Chainz match. After checking on the ref (who had been bumped), Rocky hit the Rock Bottom on Chainz, allowing Faarooq to pick up the win. After the match was over, Faarooq and Rocky gave the NOD salute.

 

The Rocky-Austin feud stemmed from Austin's problems with the NOD. At IYH: Badd Blood, Owen Hart met Faarooq in the finals of the IC title tournament. Owen beat Faarooq after Austin hit Faarooq with the IC title belt. Austin wanted Owen to be the IC champion, so that he (Austin) could beat him (Owen) for the title. The following night on Raw, Faarooq appeared on the Titantron during an Austin-Vince segment, and threatened Austin for costing him the title.

 

The following week on Raw, there was another Austin-Vince segment. During the segment, Austin signed a contract which would (a) state that the WWF wouldn't be responsible if he got injured again, and (b) give him an IC title match against Owen at Survivor Series. After Austin finished signing the contract, the NOD showed up on the ramp at the entrance way. Faarooq threatened Austin again for costing him the IC title. Austin responded by saying that he would "stomp a mudhole" in anybody that came to the ring. Faarooq sent Rocky to the ring, but Austin quickly took him down with a Stunner.

 

The night after Survivor Series, Rocky interrupted Austin during an in-ring interview and challenged him to a title match. Naturally, Austin accepted. The following week on Raw, Rocky stole Austin's IC title belt. That's when the feud started to pick up.

[Papacita 0]

2) When did Ahmed refuse to job to Kurrgan and leave the WWF? Was that when Kurrgan was Interogator in the Truth Commission?

I'm pretty sure it was sometime between No Way Out and WMXIV

 

3) How did Ahmed get hurt before his supposed title shot at Taker? How did he turn heel and join the Nation?

He got hurt his first official night in the Nation. They were cutting a promo when Crush and the newly formed DOA came out for a confrontation, they had a pull-apart brawl, and Ahmed came up limping. He would be out until that August, when the Nation suddenly turned on him out of nowhere.

 

4) DX were heels at the April 98 PPV, Unforgiven, and faces by Over the Edge in May. How did they turn face? Or was it still just shades of gray?

HHH was feuding with Owen, and when Owen realized he couldn't beat DX by himself, he turned heel and recruited the Nation. That pretty much made DX face by default, though they had been getting face pops since X-Pac's return.

[Guest Your Olympic Hero]

So Ahmed wasn't really a heel ... but he was with the Nation and was acting heel ... then he was supposed to get the title shot - which would have resolved all this, I'm assuming - but was injured and replaced by Vader.

And if you haven't seen the Taker/Vader match, find it. It was pretty good. Much better than anything Ahmed ever did. Ever.

[JoeDirt 0]

Thanks for the answers so far.

 

I remember watching Summerslam 98 and seeing Shamrock getting HUGE pops in his lions den match against Owen. By Breakdown in September the crowd hated him. Did he do anything to cause this, or was it just that the crowd liked Rocky and Foley better, so he was default heel?

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

Thanks for the answers so far.

 

I remember watching Summerslam 98 and seeing Shamrock getting HUGE pops in his lions den match against Owen. By Breakdown in September the crowd hated him. Did he do anything to cause this, or was it just that the crowd liked Rocky and Foley better, so he was default heel?

Challenging STEVE AUSTIN to a title match didn't help him. I think thats what started his eventual turn.

[Markme123 0]

Breakdown was in *Canada*

 

Shamrock

Canada

[Guest ravman77]

Plus Shamrock started growing a beard...an instant sign of impending heeldom.

[TheFranchise 0]

Plus Shamrock started growing a beard...an instant sign of impending heeldom.

For further example, see: Jericho, Chris.

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

Plus Shamrock started growing a beard...an instant sign of impending heeldom.

For further example, see: Jericho, Chris.

I thought Jericho was beardless in 1999...or my mind really sucks lately.

 

Breakdown was in *Canada*

 

Canada Shamrock

 

Why did canada hate Shamrock so much!?

[cawthon777 0]

Why did Canada hate Shamrock?

 

He just got through dominating a feud against Owen, for one.

 

For two, he had gained a reputation for being an ass to fans - and that story had already made its rounds in the weeks prior to Breakdown.

[deancoles 0]

Why did Canada hate Shamrock?

 

He just got through dominating a feud against Owen, for one.

 

For two, he had gained a reputation for being an ass to fans - and that story had already made its rounds in the weeks prior to Breakdown.

Being in a match with Foley and Rock was also a reason,you have 2 hugely charismatic guys and then you have Ken Shamrock.

[Guest Infinit]

Going back to the Ahmed turn on UT, Taker was pinned clean by Kama after a modified "Rock Bottom". The heel turn/PRP by Ahmed can after the match was over.

 

J

[JoeDirt 0]

They let KAMA pin Taker?

 

...

 

Seems a little weird to me!

[deancoles 0]

I would have let Faarooq get the pin instead.

[Kardo 0]

I have one:

 

When did Hunter Hearst Helmsley start using Triple H as a name?

[cawthon777 0]

I have one:

 

When did Hunter Hearst Helmsley start using Triple H as a name?

After he started hanging with Shawn. It was Shawn's nickname for him. So I'm guessing ... Steptember / October 97.

[cawthon777 0]

Going back to the Ahmed turn on UT, Taker was pinned clean by Kama after a modified "Rock Bottom". The heel turn/PRP by Ahmed can after the match was over.

Not quite. Kama was lower mid card at best and if he couldn't beat Taker clean in 95, he never was going to.

 

WWF @ Lake Placid, NY - June 16, 1997

Raw is War:

WWF IC Champion Owen Hart & WWF European Champion the British Bulldog defeated the New Blackjacks

Chris Candido defeated Brian Christopher via disqualification

Steve Austin defeated Brian Pillman via disqualification when Owen Hart, Jim Neidhart, and Davey Boy Smith - who were all handcuffed to seperate ring posts - escaped and attacked Austin; after the bout, Mankind, Goldust, and Ken Shamrock made the save; Austin and Shamrock began brawling until the Legion of Doom seperated the two men and Goldust suggested all five men team up to face the Hart Foundation at Canadian Stampede (Best of Raw Vol. 6)

The Headbangers defeated Jerry Lawler & Rob Van Dam

Farooq & Kama (w/ D-Lo Brown) defeated WWF World Champion the Undertaker (w/ Paul Bearer) & Ahmed Johnson when Kama pinned the Undertaker after Ahmed turned on his partner and hit the Pearl River Plunge before joining the Nation

[Cran Da Maniac 0]

They let KAMA pin Taker?

 

...

 

Seems a little weird to me!

Not really. Kama and Undertaker are really good friends in real life.

[MillenniumMan831 0]

They let KAMA pin Taker?

 

...

 

Seems a little weird to me!

Not really. Kama and Undertaker are really good friends in real life.

Plus, it would give Kama a little credibility going into the Nation.

[Guest Infinit]

Going back to the Ahmed turn on UT, Taker was pinned clean by Kama after a modified "Rock Bottom".  The heel turn/PRP by Ahmed can after the match was over.

Not quite. Kama was lower mid card at best and if he couldn't beat Taker clean in 95, he never was going to.

 

WWF @ Lake Placid, NY - June 16, 1997

Raw is War:

WWF IC Champion Owen Hart & WWF European Champion the British Bulldog defeated the New Blackjacks

Chris Candido defeated Brian Christopher via disqualification

Steve Austin defeated Brian Pillman via disqualification when Owen Hart, Jim Neidhart, and Davey Boy Smith - who were all handcuffed to seperate ring posts - escaped and attacked Austin; after the bout, Mankind, Goldust, and Ken Shamrock made the save; Austin and Shamrock began brawling until the Legion of Doom seperated the two men and Goldust suggested all five men team up to face the Hart Foundation at Canadian Stampede (Best of Raw Vol. 6)

The Headbangers defeated Jerry Lawler & Rob Van Dam

Farooq & Kama (w/ D-Lo Brown) defeated WWF World Champion the Undertaker (w/ Paul Bearer) & Ahmed Johnson when Kama pinned the Undertaker after Ahmed turned on his partner and hit the Pearl River Plunge before joining the Nation

I have to call you on that one.

 

From what I remember, Taker didn't tag out the whole match...and gets pinned by Kama after a modified RB...after the match is over, The Nation leave the ring and end up on the top of the ramp...Ahmed gets in the ring and stands over Taker...Taker tries to pull himself up, but Ahmed give him a Pearl River Plunge...Ahmed walks to the top of the ramp, joins The Nation and does the salute.

 

100% sure the turn came AFTER the pin.

 

J

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

On that episode of RAW, ECW Superstar THE SANDMAN distracted Jerry Lawler and Rob Van Dam, allowing The Headbangers to advance in the "Number One Contender's Tag Team Tournament"...

 

Which led to:

 

Austin/???? Vs. Owen/Bulldog.

 

Anyone remember THAT Monday?

 

On Nitro, we had the debut of RAVEN AND didn't Hennig debut...this was a HUGE buildup.

 

Plus the Horsemen kicked Jarrett out of the stable!

 

And Syxx told Jericho "You beat NOTHING until you got back to your hotel that night!" about Jericho taking his Cruiserweight title at a house show.

 

On RAW, we had Austin/DUDE LOVE (!) Vs. Owen/Bulldog and the "secret" of the Undertaker revealed "YOU'RE A MURDERER!" from Paul Bearer.

 

What an awesome night.

[Guest MikeSC]

1) Did Rock do a big heel turn to join the Nation, or did he just sort of come back and was placed with them? How did his feud with Austin in late 97 come about?

ACTUALLY, he turned on Savio Vega in a tag match. THAT was the start of his heel run. His feud with Austin wasn't really a big thing. Austin cost Faarooq the I-C Title to Owen Hart at Badd Blood (so he could unseat Owen for revenge over the piledriver) and this put him in the sights of the Nation. Rock was his first challenger and was, well, squashed. Austin forfeited the belt the next night rather than face Rock again (I don't remember why Vince said Rock deserved a rematch as Austin just slaughtered him in less than 5 minutes).

2) When did Ahmed refuse to job to Kurrgan and leave the WWF? Was that when Kurrgan was Interogator in the Truth Commission?

That happened in late January-early February 1998. The Truth Commission was already long gone by that point. I don't remember that group even lasting a month.

3) How did Ahmed get hurt before his supposed title shot at Taker? How did he turn heel and join the Nation?

There was some huge brawl when he joined the Nation (no, they never explained why) and he was injured during the brawl. Ahmed was one injury-prone fella.

4) DX were heels at the April 98 PPV, Unforgiven, and faces by Over the Edge in May. How did they turn face? Or was it still just shades of gray?

The WCW Invasion and Nation parody sketches put them over as faces.

5) I think the whole Kane storyline started after KOTR 97...Kane, though, wasn't brought in until Badd Blood in October. Was this to just let the storyline build a bit? Did the WWF always know that Glen Jacobs was going to be Kane

?

WWF always had a massive hard-on for Jacobs (he is a good big guy), so they always wanted to find a role for him. I imagine they always had plans for Jacobs to be Kane.

6) How did the first HIAC match come about? Like, did they just announce it, or was a challenge made by Taker, etc.

I thought UT made the challenge because their match at the Sept. PPV was a total schmozz.

-=Mike