The OAO Tom Brady is the Best QB in the NFL Thread

[The Czech Republic 0]

Lets compare this to, for example, association football. TomCo to AF's Fertig.

And this is the best analogy for the footballs that I have yet to see. American football is so wearing a harness.

[Slayer 0]

Brady has two Super Bowl MVP awards. That puts him with some pretty elite company (Starr, Bradshaw and Montana)

 

Even if you could argue that he may not be on the plateau with THE legends (yet), he's certainly on the level far above the QBs that the media loves to fellate on a regular basis (you know which ones I mean)

[Mole 0]

Brady has two Super Bowl MVP awards. That puts him with some pretty elite company (Starr, Bradshaw and Montana)

 

Even if you could argue that he may not be on the plateau with THE legends (yet), he's certainly on the level far above the QBs that the media loves to fellate on a regular basis (you know which ones I mean)

That is a very good point.

 

If he does well next year, I'd put him up there with the elite. Not yet though.

[Cartman 0]

Man if Brady had STAR PLAYERS around him on Offense like Montana, Elway, Manning, etc. have/had just imagine the difference...

[Bored 0]

The weakest argument for a player is always "well if he had stars around him" or "if he played on a better team" he'd be the greatest ever. If Archie Manning hadn't played with those sorry Saints teams he might been one of the best ever but he wasn't. Woulda, coulda, shoulda, these what if scenerios are bullshit as you can only go by what did happen. Oh and people always seem to think Jerry Rice was around Montana's whole career or that Montana always had a running game. Rice wasn't around for Montana's first two Super Bowls and he had that Hall of Fame backfield of Ricky Patton and Earl Cooper for his first Super Bowl win.

 

Its is absolutely fucking pointless and absurd to bother comparing a quarterback this early in his career to all-time greats as already pointed that you don't know what the future will bring. And I don't even have anything against Tom Brady. Dan Marino played in his first Super Bowl in his second year in a season he threw 48 touchdowns and I'm sure no one, including Marino, thought he'd never play in another Super Bowl. To use a different sport as an example just four years ago you'd get many people to say Ken Griffey Jr. was on his way to being the greatest player ever and he had been a dominate player for an entire decade, not just for a few years. Four years later injuries have nearly destroyed his career and some question if he'll even make the Hall of Fame, although I still think he'll make it but again just an example. Point is in the end we have no fucking clue how the rest Tom Brady's career will go.

[2GOLD 0]

As much as I despise Brady, he's definately one of the best QB right NOW. I'm not ready to place him in the elite yet but he's slowly getting to the point where it'll be safe to call him a Hall of Fame quarterback.

 

However, I will say the Patriots are one of the best TEAMS of all time. As a unit, they really play old school style football where they just want to smack you in the mouth and let you watch in pain as they just barely beat you. It makes you frustrated cause even though you think you can beat them, most of the time it almost seems like they are toying with you like a cat toys with a mouse. They aren't lucky, they might be the most cruel team in the NFL. Cause just when you think you have them, you don't have them.

 

I think this is why so many people hate them. Because they don't like to dominant you on the scoreboard even though they probably could if they wanted too. If you are a high scoring team, they will score right with you and outscore you. If you are a defensive monster, they will out slam you. If you are a running giant, they will outrun you. And it doesn't make ANY sense how they do it. Because they shouldn't be able too, they aren't big name players.

 

But what they are is a team that seems to be one heart, one voice and no matter what they don't open their mouth until the season is over. They just look at you with that "Keep talking" feel and then they beat you at your game or force you to play the game they want you to play. They know how to work the cap, they know it's not the name as much as the player behind the name. They aren't a no-name defense, they are a no-name team.

 

It's pathetic that the only way you get respect nowadays in the NFL is by blowing teams out. But then when the time came for the blowout team to step into the quiet warrior, the quiet warrior put them down. New England may be the most quiet complete package team in the NFL.

[Slayer 0]

^

Well said

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

Wow, hopefully Trent Dilfer can win another Super Bowl before he retires and we can start dropping his name along with Montana, Bradshaw, Elway, Favre, Aikman, Starr, act...

[Guest Mosaicv2]

you despise Brady... but hes hell of alot more talented than the forbidden loser Randy Orton

[Damaramu 0]

you despise Brady... but hes hell of alot more talented than the forbidden loser Randy Orton

Now I hate Randy Orton as much as the next guy but that was uncalled for......what did Orton have to do with anything? Oh man you really burned him on that one.....I'm sure he's crying about it right now.

[Hoff 0]

::Orton, at home, sitting at his computer, glass of wine on the table, Danielle Steele novel in hand::

 

Why must they say such hurtful things?!

 

*cries*

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

Wow, hopefully Trent Dilfer can win another Super Bowl before he retires and we can start dropping his name along with Montana, Bradshaw, Elway, Favre, Aikman, Starr, act...

My Trent Dilfer joke got no-sold but it should be considered.

[MrRant 0]

Well... what if he wins one on the bench?

[Dr. Tom 0]

Tom Brady ... Best QB in the NFL today.

Lies.

[Hoff 0]

That's a compelling argument, Tom.

[Dr. Tom 0]

Eh, I didn't feel like elaborating at the time. I'm right, though.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Eh, I didn't feel like elaborating at the time. I'm right, though.

Agreed.

 

Tom Brady plays with one of the most dominant defenses ever, with one of the best defensive minded coaches ever. Am I the only that sees the trend?

[Slayer 0]

Eh, I didn't feel like elaborating at the time.  I'm right, though.

Agreed.

 

Tom Brady plays with one of the most dominant defenses ever, with one of the best defensive minded coaches ever. Am I the only that sees the trend?

I do see a trend

 

Terry Bradshaw played with one of the most dominant defenses ever, with one of the best defensive minded coaches ever.

 

You going to tell me Bradshaw wasn't a good QB (he had two SB MVP awards, just like Brady) just because he had guys like Mean Joe Green and Jack Lambert on the other side of the ball, as well as Chuck Noll running the team?

 

And that's to say nothing of how Bradshaw and Noll hated each other, versus how Brady and Belicheck like to work together

 

Preposterous

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Eh, I didn't feel like elaborating at the time.  I'm right, though.

Agreed.

 

Tom Brady plays with one of the most dominant defenses ever, with one of the best defensive minded coaches ever. Am I the only that sees the trend?

I do see a trend

 

Terry Bradshaw played with one of the most dominant defenses ever, with one of the best defensive minded coaches ever.

 

You going to tell me Bradshaw wasn't a good QB (he had two SB MVP awards, just like Brady) just because he had guys like Mean Joe Green and Jack Lambert on the other side of the ball, as well as Chuck Noll running the team?

 

And that's to say nothing of how Bradshaw and Noll hated each other, versus how Brady and Belicheck like to work together

 

Preposterous

Terry Bradshaw had Franco Harris and Lynn Swann with him actually, a couple of HOF members. All THREE of them are overrated because of the fact that they played with that defense. I wouldn't put them in the top ten all-time in any of their respective positions. Still, their offense was so much better than the Pats, I mean really, just look at the stats displayed this year by the Pats offense and Tom Brady even. His passer rating wasn't stellar, and they didn't win games with their offense. Your comparison is more coincidental, as I can use any team from recent past that would seem to be a better fit. A better comparison would be Trent Dilfer or Brad Johnson of recent years. No one else on their offense and the best defense in the league. Though their coaches are supposed to be offensive geniuses, but whatever.

 

Now that I think about it; could the patriots have won the Super Bowl with a different quarterback? Probably, I could think of a handful.

 

Could the 49ers have won in the eighties with another quarterback? Doubtful. Steve Young doesn't even count, that team was much better, and they beat a depleted Cowboys team that should've won four straight. Tom Brady isn't Joe Montana....yet. Too damn early. I wouldn't even say that he's the best QB in the league right now.

[Slayer 0]

So if you played on the opposite of a good defense, you can never be considered a good QB?

 

Never talk about football again, ever

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

So if you played on the opposite of a good defense, you can never be considered a good QB?

 

Never talk about football again, ever

I never said that he wasn't a good QB dipshit. I said that he wasn't THE BEST EVER OMG JO MONTANA PART DEUX~!

 

It's not my fault you can't tell the difference. It's just common knowledge that if you aren't the main reason your team has won, than you should not be considered the best at anything. Care to disagree with that logic? Tom Brady is a GREAT QB, but the bottom line is that they could have one of a few other quarterbacks in the league and win a super bowl. Is Tom Brady the focal point? Nope. Was Joe Montana? Yes. That right there should show that he doesn't deserve the comparison...yet. Notice how I said that last time too? But since I'm not proclaiming him to be God now I suppose that I thought he wasn't a good QB right? I said that he might be on his way to being the best QB ever, and that's considered a knock on him. What a fucking idiot.

 

If you're referring to what I said about the Steelers, their overratedness may or may not have to do with the fact that they played with the defense. Just saying that there's no way that Harris, Swann and Bradshaw are as good as people say they are.

 

I personally think when it's all said and done that Payton Manning will be a better quarterback then Brady, but Marvin Harrison<Pats Defense.

 

I'd wonder why you totally misunderstood what I was saying, but you know, you've seemed to set up camp on Tom Brady's balls. That would explain a lot.

[Guest FrigidSoul]

I guess Walter Payton was an over-rated RB then because of that 85 Bears defense. Payton only had success due to Mike Singletary and Mike Ditka.

[Guest FrigidSoul]

If you also don't think Tom Brady is the leader and focal point of the team you may want to take a look at how many 4th quarter comebacks he lead and his record in OT games. I suppose any other QB could do that though.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

I guess Walter Payton was an over-rated RB then because of that 85 Bears defense. Payton only had success due to Mike Singletary and Mike Ditka.

Oyveh, these Pats fans are uptight. If he's not the best of all time, then he's underrated.

 

I wouldn't say that he was dominant, but it's not Walter's fault. Football is a team game after all, and their offense was never very good anyway. He was never a difference-maker, a dominant player. They had a losing record before that season, and I'm pretty sure that they had one afterwards as well.

 

Tom Brady is a great quarterback, that plays on a team that scares teams with their defense. Did teams travel to New England this year worried about Brady? No, they worried about their defense.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

If you also don't think Tom Brady is the leader and focal point of the team you may want to take a look at how many 4th quarter comebacks he lead and his record in OT games. I suppose any other QB could do that though.

He's a leader, as ALL QB's are leaders of their team. That's just the way it goes. If a team wins a Super Bowl, the QB, regardless of whether or not he had a spectacular game, will be MVP. That's the way it is. Hmm, which one proves that more then any other?

 

Read what I said about teams travelling to New England to regarding the focal point. Defenses are not made of stars most of the time, unless they are self-promoting or flashy. Most of the time, it's more about the scheme or system as opposed to the individual players.

[Slayer 0]

<cut nonsense-filled flame>

Touched a nerve did I? Not my fault you don't know anything about football

 

It sounds like all you're doing is displacing the credit that IS deserved by the aforementioned QBs and placing it towards other factors on their team.

 

"Bradshaw wasn't a HoF QB, he only made it because of his defense!"

 

By your reasoning, you could claim (however fallacious) that "Joe Montana wasn't THAT good a QB, he just had Seifert's defensive schemes"

 

Brady is the team leader of the Patriots, nuff said (see also Frigid's points above)

 

Manning will be this generations Dan Marino/Dan Fouts: Lots of flashy stats, no rings.

[Slayer 0]

Oyveh, these Pats fans are uptight.

Not a Pats fan, just an admirer. My primary team is the Vikings (go ahead, I know there's a flame ready for that one)

 

I wouldn't say that he was dominant, but it's not Walter's fault. Football is a team game after all, and their offense was never very good anyway. He was never a difference-maker, a dominant player. They had a losing record before that season, and I'm pretty sure that they had one afterwards as well.

 

1984 10-6

1985 15-1 (The SB Season)

1986 14-2

1987 11-4

1988 12-4

1989 6-10

1990 11-5

1991 11-5

 

Made the playoffs for all but one season in that span... goddamn did they suck

[Guest FrigidSoul]

He's a leader, as ALL QB's are leaders of their team. That's just the way it goes. If a team wins a Super Bowl, the QB, regardless of whether or not he had a spectacular game, will be MVP. That's the way it is.

And now we disprove this theory.

 

Super Bowl XXXVII MVP Dexter Jackson of the Tampa Bay Bucs was not a QB(surprising, I know). In fact he was a Safety who picked off the ball a couple times. Now Brad Johnson completed about 50% of his passes for 215yards, 1 pick, and 2 TDs...he didn't have a spectacular game but he did manage the clock and got them in the endzone a couple times. From what you've said however Brad Johnson should have been the MVP but he wasn't.

 

Now from what I have counted there have been 19 SuperBowl MVPs to go to QBs, however(!) how many of them were to different QBs? 13...the other 19 have gone to 19 different players who were not QBs. So they do not win them all the time, in fact a different QB doesn't win a SuperBowl MVP even half of the time.

 

Good QBs win a SuperBowl MVP, Elite QBs win multiple SuperBowl MVPs

 

I suppose Bart Starr, Terry Bradshaw, Joe Montana, and Tom Brady shouldn't have gotten them though due to recievers, defense, recievers, and once again defense.

[Bored 0]

I suppose Bart Starr, Terry Bradshaw, Joe Montana, and Tom Brady shouldn't have gotten them though due to recievers, defense, recievers, and once again defense.

Starr didn't deserve Super Bowl I MVP, Max McGee did but because it was the first Super Bowl the NFL wanted to give the award to the clean cut quarterback and not the literally hungover receiver. Bradshaw didn't deserve the MVP in Super Bowl XIV, John Stallworth did. Brady didn't deserve the Super Bowl XXXVI MVP, Ty Law did. Montana could have won four MVPs considering in Super Bowl XXIII he did lead the 49ers to the winning score the final minute but Jerry Rice was basically the 49ers entire offense most of the night so that's why he won. The only MVP he might not have deserved to win was Super Bowl XVI but there were no standout players in that game.

[Dr. Tom 0]

Why's everyone riding Bradshaw's jock?

 

His career line: 2025-3901 (51.9%), 27989 yards, 212 TD, 210 INT. Six seasons he had more INTs than TDs, and only twice did he throw for 3000 yards. The vertical passing game wasn't as big back then, true, but I wouldn't call Bradshaw's numbers stellar. He's in because he was successful in the playoffs. Then again, Joe Namath has pretty shitty career numbers, and he's in the Hall because of his guarantee before Super Bowl III.

 

Anyway, re: Brady. He's a very good QB, and he plays well in big games. I'm not ready to compare him to Joe Montana yet. The Pats followed up their first Super Bowl win by going 9-7 and missing the playoffs. That's a mark against Brady -- if you want to give him credit for the good times, you have to assign him the blame for the bad times. Anything else is dishonest. We'll see how they do this coming season.