The WWE Folder

[NYU 0]

Posters: "We need to do something about the WWE folder."

Staff: "Ok. Here are some changes we think will improve everyone's experiences with the folder."

Posters: "Noooo! We don't want those changes!"

Well, don't exclude the fact that those post regularly in the WWE folder didn't exactly clamor for these changes. It was those in Hardcore Discussion and other folders that went on about the WWE folder sucking, and all that. Some of us were, for the most part, perfectly happy with how the WWE folder was going right now. But then a group of moderators are coming in and closing threads that didn't need to be closed, making changes that the regular posters didn't want to see....doing all this stuff that is beginning to alienate the regular WWE posters.

[Dr. Tom 0]

My question on why we're trying to impress people on other boards who don't even care about this place has still yet to be answered.

Ok.

 

We're not. At least not as our primary goal. The WWE folder has taken a drubbing from people on this board for a long time. I consigned it to other staff members because the sheer level of rampant idiocy prevented me from going in there. There's no reason anyone should feel their IQ drop when they enter a folder. Word spread to other boards, of course, and many of them jumped on the bandwagon, but the horse and cart originally left from within our own walls. Besides, since we don't exist in a vacuum and would presumably want to draw in new members, having a shitty reputation isn't exactly the way to accomplish that.

[Downhome 0]

It wasn't about the closing of that ONE thread, it was all about why it was closed, what about the other threads which are basicly the exact same setup, and it's about the precident being set. It just doesn't make things clear.

 

It isn't like it's all that "hard" to mod the WWE folder. Just as Loss said earlier, there isn't really anything there that shouldn't be there now, it's not as big of a mess as some think it is.

[Dr. Tom 0]

It wasn't about the closing of that ONE thread, it was all about why it was closed, what about the other threads which are basicly the exact same setup, and it's about the precident being set. It just doesn't make things clear.

 

It isn't like it's all that "hard" to mod the WWE folder. Just as Loss said earlier, there isn't really anything there that shouldn't be there now, it's not as big of a mess as some think it is.

You just summed up your last two days' worth of posting in four lines.

 

Please continue to use this kind of brevity.

[Guest Anglesault]

The parallel:

 

Posters: "We need to do something about the WWE folder."

Staff: "Ok. Here are some changes we think will improve everyone's experiences with the folder."

Posters: "Noooo! We don't want those changes!"

 

This is a work in progress, folks. We're going to look at things, listen to feedback, and iron out the kinks.

 

Crikey. Throw in a "we're going through some growing pains, just bear with us" and you have a collection of the most cliche excuses people use when something's not working.

 

You just summed up your last two days' worth of posting in four lines.

 

Please continue to use this kind of brevity.

 

Okay, I'll try.

 

These changes fucking suck. Things are worse than they ever were.

 

Two sentences.

 

Happy?

[Downhome 0]

Okay, I'll try.

 

These changes fucking suck. Things are worse than they ever were.

 

Two sentences.

 

Happy?

I think that I agree with Kotz now.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Dr. Tom, especially after your own fuck-up in the WWE folder, could you please stop with comments such as "the sheer level of rampant idiocy" relating to the WWE folder. That means you are calling all those whom post in the WWE folder - and many of whom are currently posting in this thread - idiots. I don't consider myself a great intellectual, but I don't see myself as an idiot.

 

Seeing who has "left" the WWE folder, I can honestly say, it's not a huge loss. Oh no, not the Hardcore Discussion guys!

 

And how can you draw in new members when no new members can be signed in?

[Guest Anglesault]

Okay, I'll try.

 

These changes fucking suck. Things are worse than they ever were.

 

Two sentences.

 

Happy?

I think that I agree with Kotz now.

Meaning?

[Downhome 0]

Meaning?

That you are just a bit disgruntled.

[NYU 0]

Okay, I'll try.

 

These changes fucking suck. Things are worse than they ever were.

 

Two sentences.

 

Happy?

I think that I agree with Kotz now.

Meaning?

You seem a little angry.

 

Oh good god, I just noticed something. There are three quotes being referred to right now. What madness have I created? I do believe I am lost in this tapestry of blue background and white boxes. Whatever am I to do?!

 

First, it was people going off-topic that was a big problem of the WWE folder. Now it's referring to multiple quotes, as if that's the death-knell of the WWE folder, and that something of that terrible magnitude doesn't happen in any other folder here at TSM. What's next?

 

These "problems" in the WWE folder are being blown up to a ridiculous magnitude, when they were never really much of a problem in the first place. Deleting threads because there are multiple quote-boxes? I don't know where to begin with the ridiculousness of that. If the WWE folder is in as terrible shape as some of the mods believe, I would HOPE these quote boxes are the least of all those problems.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

The thread was deleted because of the COMPLAINTS related to the multiple post box-es. I think. I don't know for sure as I didn't read the thread in question.

[Guest Anglesault]

Oh good god, I just noticed something. There are three quotes being referred to right now. What madness have I created? I do believe I am lost in this tapestry of blue background and white boxes. Whatever am I to do?!

 

First, it was people going off-topic that was a big problem of the WWE folder. Now it's referring to multiple quotes, as if that's the death-knell of the WWE folder, and that something of that terrible magnitude doesn't happen in any other folder here at TSM. What's next?

I'm sure capitalizing to emphasize a point is next.

[Downhome 0]

I thought it was closed because of that mixed with the talk of, OMG, Orton.

[NYU 0]

Well, I was referring to this:

 

Maybe we should just delete any post that multi-quotes like that. Idiocy is what everyone wants us to get rid of, and you can't be much more idiotic than to blindly hit Quote everytime you want to make a reply.

 

I'm not completely sure how sarcastic the statement was. But with the way things have been going in the WWE folder the past couple of days, I wouldn't be shocked. Just saying that I HOPE multiple quoting isn't one of the main problems in the WWE folder, and that there way more important issues to address.

[Guest Loss]

Ok, at this point, I need to be focusing my time in the WWE folder, so I'm through discussing this. I've made my point, and answered all I can possibly answer.

 

I have closed two threads. Two. No more. No less. That's hardly earth-shattering.

 

Also, the goal is not to impress other boards, but I'd rather not be associated with something that is a laughingstock. If that folder was a laughingstock for no real reason, I wouldn't really care, because I'd know the truth, but the truth hurts, and the truth is that the majority of the complaints have been correct.

 

Most of those who have posted feedback in this thread, all in fact, are what I'd consider great additions to the folder -- the creme de la creme -- and I don't think anyone who has replied in here is a moron.

 

One last thing. Downhome -- why do you insist on repeatedly saying "so are you going to ban us from discussing this?" when I have not banned discussion on anything and have no intentions of doing so. I closed a thread, I explained why, and hopefully it won't happen again. Now, let's everyone get back to life, back to reality.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I hope L4W's "departure" from this thread doesn't mean that our complaints/issues will go ignored. This is a relevant, open-dialogue that should be happening. If you (Admin here at TSM) want to improve the WWE folder at the expense of its members for the benefit of non-members and non-contributors, then maybe you should re-evaluate your goals.

[Guest Anglesault]

I have closed two threads. Two. No more. No less. That's hardly earth-shattering.

About 15 minutes after Dames gave the final okay, and one of them is an EXTREMELY borderline case.

 

It really comes off as flexing your muscles and nothing more.

 

I hope L4W's "departure" from this thread doesn't mean that our complaints/issues will go ignored.

 

Didn't Tom confirm that?

[Downhome 0]

Ok, at this point, I need to be focusing my time in the WWE folder, so I'm through discussing this. I've made my point, and answered all I can possibly answer.

Here we go, and most likely my last time.

 

You yourself said there aren't even any threads that need to be dealt with. It's not as bad as some made it out to be, I think most everyone knows that.

 

I have closed two threads. Two. No more. No less. That's hardly earth-shattering.

 

Yes, but as I said before "It wasn't about the closing of that ONE thread, it was all about why it was closed, what about the other threads which are basicly the exact same setup, and it's about the precedent being set. It just doesn't make things clear.

 

It isn't like it's all that "hard" to mod the WWE folder. Just as Loss said earlier, there isn't really anything there that shouldn't be there now, it's not as big of a mess as some think it is.", that's the issue.

 

Also, the goal is not to impress other boards, but I'd rather not be associated with something that is a laughingstock.

 

But it's not a laughing stock, most people who comment on it are people who left this place for one reason or another. To most people, it's quite respected and known about for good reasons.

 

Most of those who have posted feedback in this thread, all in fact, are what I'd consider great additions to the folder -- the creme de la creme -- and I don't think anyone who has replied in here is a moron.

 

Well, thanks I guess.

 

One last thing. Downhome -- why do you insist on repeatedly saying "so are you going to ban us from discussing this?" when I have not banned discussion on anything and have no intentions of doing so.

 

That isn't true at all. Over and over again you have said that certain things shouldn't be discussed, for whatever reason. Stuff like that is wrong, you should limit what we talk about at ALL in terms of the WWE as long as we do so with our heads, with a bit of joking mixed in here and there, and as long as the flames are kept out of it. Nothing at all wrong with that to me, and to everyone else for the most part.

 

I closed a thread, I explained why, and hopefully it won't happen again. Now, let's everyone get back to life, back to reality.

 

I hope it doesn't happen again, but the precedent on what can be locked down...it's been set.

 

I know you just want the best for the WWE folder, and I respect that I guess, but your means to make things "better", well, I simply don't agree with them at all.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I think that there maybe should be a sort of tribunal that decides whether or not a thread gets deleted (Loss, Goodear, CC); where at least 2 of the three have to vote for it and then address why they closed it in-full afterwards. Because, as of right now, I am not seeing a lot of unity and consistency here amongst the higher-ups in their reasons for the rules and their implementation of them. It's been less than a week and there are clear cracks in the foundation. Giving decision-making authority to singular people -especially in the WWE folder- has already posed some problems; with 3 people backing that decision and able to defend the postiion, it would make it easier to accept.

[Downhome 0]

Someone's post was edited, I think it was Krazy Karter, and he replied saying that when a mod edits someone's post, they should let the poster know just why. I forget who, but a mod replied by saying that it's too much work to do such a thing.

 

I'd be willing to bet that they would say that it would be "too much work" to get together with the other mods and talk about if it should be closed or not, and then to let all of us know why it was closed. They would want to close it right then and there, the moment they see it.

 

Too much work I guess.

 

When a thread is closed, I don't think there should be any question at all as to why it was closed, it should be obvious to everyone. If a thread is that bad off, I don't even think it should be closed really, just delete the trash.

 

Does that make sense to you?

[bob_barron 0]

This is what Tom said-

 

There's no way I could get behind this. It's simply too much "paperwork" for a staff member to do. I'm not going to cut and paste someone's original post and PM it to them, along with chapter and verse from the board rules as to why it was edited/deleted.

 

It comes down to this: staff members are not here to abuse their power. It requires you to have a level of trust in them, yes, but if you can't trust the board to be moderated fairly, then maybe you should find another board.

 

I'm not trying to encourage anyone to leave. That's just how I feel. I'm not going to abuse my power (even though I might joke about doing so from time to time), and I think most of the posters here know that. I don't think anyone on our current staff would recklessly abuse their power, and if they did, I'd remove their powers myself.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

No, because the Mods here are working on a case-by-case basis. There is no *set* rule, as of right now, in determining what is and what isn't allowed (and it should be that way). What I may think is a bad thread could be one that is favoured by the majority here and vice versa. Hell, this very issue of rules for the WWE folder is based on one group thinking the folder is fine and another group thinking it isn't. Should only the "worst of the worst" be deleted or can we upgrade to "bad". The higher ups seem to think "pointless" threads fit the bill. What counts and what doesn't should be open for discussion - hence, providing a *good* explanation why a thread was closed/delete.

 

The mods should be accountable for their actions.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

It requires you to have a level of trust in them, yes, but if you can't trust the board to be moderated fairly, then maybe you should find another board.

 

Right now I don't have a whole lot of trust in them for this situation (in general, I have no problem with it). And it's funny how it's not ok for the WWE Folder to drive people away or prevent them from posting here, but Dr. Tom doesn't mind if people leave because something that HE represents is causing a problem (as opposed to the WWE folder which he has relatively nothing to do with).

[Guest Loss]

All right, I will stick around and take questions or whatever, as long as you guys understand that I hardly have time to go in the WWE folder and even read the threads because this thread is requiring all of my attention. I've explained ... about 15,000 times or so ... why I did what I did and you either agree with it or you don't. If I haven't helped you at least understand my side of the story at this point, nothing is going to make you understand. I've given post after post after post after post about it.

 

Therefore, I'm through discussing the reasons for the Eddy thread being closed since I've answered that question multiple times. Any other questions, have at it.

[Tawren 0]

Can someone explain what was so bad about the WWE folder in the first place? Don't just say "idiots", give cases and explanations. Seems like a big deal has been made out of something that isn't and shouldn't be a big deal just because someone in HD doesn't like the WWE folder.

[Sass 0]

I've read enough and this has gotten out of hand.

 

Downhome, you have done nothing but badger and hound Loss and myself throughout this entire thread without offering anything positive to this folder change. None of your "help" has been helpful to Loss or I because anytime we try to make a compromise you manage to find something else to complain about when we haven't even posted the rules. We still aren't sure if we are even going to keep the rules that were posted last week since both Loss and I are aware that some of the rules might not work in a folder as large as the WWE folder. So right now I'm telling you to back off or else you will be issued a warning for trolling in this thread.

 

Anglesault, acting like the doomsayer and predicting that the folder change won't last past April is a stretch since Loss and I are taking things on a day-to-day basis while you've already managed to predict when Loss and I are going to give up when we are both strongly committed to seeing the folder improve.

 

Both of you are on thin ice right now in this thread and if you each continue to pester both Loss and I the way you have in this thread (and continue to do so this same way in any other thread), both of you will be getting a warning.

 

I appreciate your the good intentions you have to help out DH but there's an old saying about how "the road to Hell is paved with good intentions" and so far you have managed to do nothing that helps Loss or myself with the WWE folder which we will be working on tentatively here.

 

Make no mistake, if anyone here has something they'd like to say about the topic of this thread then go ahead. But if you follow suite with DH or AS then don't be surprised if your post is no-sold by the mods because that will lead us nowhere.

Edited February 10, 2004 by Sass

[Guest FrigidSoul]

I'm sorry but I'm laughing over the warning of being given a warning. That just tickled a part of me.

[Guest Krazy Karter]

Someone's post was edited, I think it was Krazy Karter, and he replied saying that when a mod edits someone's post, they should let the poster know just why. I forget who, but a mod replied by saying that it's too much work to do such a thing.

That was DrTom, but it's understandable.

 

Loss4Words sent me a nice PM saying he will be glad to notify members if their posts have been edited or deleted, and why.

 

I don't know what Sass's policy is.

[Guest Anglesault]

Anglesault, acting like the doomsayer and predicting that the folder change won't last past April is a stretch since Loss and I are taking things on a day-to-day basis while you've already managed to predict when Loss and I are going to give up when we are both strongly committed to seeing the folder improve.

Predictions are what I'm good at. It's how I made my name.

 

Both of you are on thin ice right now in this thread and if you each continue to pester both Loss and I the way you have in this thread (and continue to do so this same way in any other thread), both of you will be getting a warning.

 

OH, FUCK THIS.

 

I bring up a point that neither of you can satisfactorily answer, and I'M the bad guy?

 

Wow, great job attracting people to the folder guys. Funny thing is, I didn't realize that driving people away was the first step. I sure as hell don't want to post there anymore.

 

Hell, maybe it's for the better, because I'm not just gonna shut up and smile everytime you guys fuck up.

[Downhome 0]

So right now I'm telling you to back off or else you will be issued a warning for trolling in this thread.

Then warn me, and then give me another, and then just go ahead and ban me if that is going to be your stance. You might as well just say the following...

 

"Do not express your opinion in feedback, or you will be given a warning and then banned".

 

...so go ahead and warn me, Anglesalt, and whoever else. That will sure get you places by "warning" people for no good reason other than sharing their opinion on a matter which you ALL have told us to do.

 

I appreciate your the good intentions you have to help out DH but there's an old saying about how "the road to Hell is paved with good intentions" and so far you have managed to do nothing that helps Loss or myself with the WWE folder which we will be working on tentatively here.

 

Once again, my God. You are like a guy with multiple personalities, make up your mind who you want to be. Either the guy willing to listen to what we have to say, or the guy who is just itchin' to give out warnings left and right.

 

Make no mistake, if anyone here has something they'd like to say about the topic of this thread then go ahead.

 

You forgot to add the part about getting a warning if they dare do so.

 

But if you follow suite with DH or AS then don't be surprised if your post is no-sold by the mods because that will lead us nowhere.

 

You heard it here first folks.

 

This thread was just fine untill you made that post Sass, giving out warnings for responding to a thread in feedback, which you have all told us to do.

 

Would you rather me just not give a fuck?