TNA Talent Pulled From ROH Shows

[1234-5678 0]

Blame RF and Doug, not Gabe.

 

 

Also, why the fuck hasn't RF video changed their name yet?  It's been reported that their business is back to normal and they don't think there's any reason to change it.  These guys better get their freaking act together before it's too late.

Why SHOULD they change it? RF Video is a well-known name in the wrestling community. Why piss away all of the benefits because your owner (who, BTW, still hasn't actually been CHARGED with anything) has issues.

Because they said they were going to change it.

 

Also, saying he hasn't been charged with anything is a major cop out.

Well I chagre him with being a scumbag who will never see a cent of mine.

[BoboBrazil 0]

"NWA:TNA's decision to pull all of their contracted talent from upcoming dates with Ring of Honor was made after ROH's investor Cary Silkes was advised by his attorney not to sign a document that would hold him personally financially responsible for any possible damages incurred to NWA:TNA if Rob Feinstein was found to remain owner of ROH. ROH President Doug Gentry signed the exact same document a few days back. The two sides remain amicable and continue discussions. A source in TNA considered the situation "defused" after Gentry signed the document. "

 

 

TNA only wanted ROH financially responsible for any damages caused if it was found that Rob Feinstein was still with the company. This guy wouldn't sign it. This isn't TNA's fault.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

I think this whole situation sucks. FOR BOTH SIDES. I really don't think that TNA is really worried about the RF situation as much as they like making money, so I will NOT praise their actions. Also this is still some of ROH's fault too. Why didn't they just sign? Honestly at this point I don't even give a shit anymore.....I'm just sick of hearing TNA and ROH fanboys argue like children over something so pointless. The bottom line is if you really are a "true" wrestling fan, you wouldn't want either company to struggle.

[Guest Dids]

I think TNA WAY overestimates the damage that could be done if RF is still linked to RoH. I think it's the workers who have more to risk by working for a company that might be run by a child rapist. Isn't it a long line to say "I won't buy adds on TNA because they hired a guy who once worked for a company whose boss got busted for picking up a 14 year old boy". If TNA does their job- and promotes their talent right- I can't imagine it being a problem.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

If TNA does their job- and promotes their talent right- I can't imagine it being a problem.

See this is the main problem that I have with TNA in this reguard. They want to fight with ROH and the wrestlers themselves about not wrestling for ROH anymore.....fine. But, why would Daniels or Punk wanna stay in TNA? From what I understand it's obviously the check and nothing else. There is NO way that TNA would ever push those guys to the top of the card, because they are too busy trying to get Hall/Nash/Hogan/Luger etc, to come in and wrestle at the top of the card. I'd personally have no problem with any of the ROH guys wrestling only for TNA if they would only USE them correctly........

[BoboBrazil 0]

Daniels got sort of a main event push last year, but the crowd didn't respond that well to it in the asylum. If I was any wrestler I'd take TNA any day over ROH. TNA is about to get on national tv and has the chance to explode in a big way. ROH is successful on a small scale, but seems content in just making money off tape sales and not expanding. The chance to make money is much greater in TNA.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

Daniels got sort of a main event push last year, but the crowd didn't respond that well to it in the asylum. If I was any wrestler I'd take TNA any day over ROH. TNA is about to get on national tv and has the chance to explode in a big way. ROH is successful on a small scale, but seems content in just making money off tape sales and not expanding. The chance to make money is much greater in TNA.

Not necessarily. TNA get severly low buyrates on PPV, and the fact that they are unproven in getting television rating might make it that TNA isn't around as long as people are planning it to be. ROH can also be considered to be in some danger of closing too, considering there is no way to view the effect of the RF situation yet as it's still too early. In essence they will need each other to stay alive. They should just try and work together the best they can, except TNA is starting to get a little greedy IMHO. I think that TNA doesn't realize that the majority of fans that order their PPV's enjoy watching ROH as well. Thus, if they could figure out a way to settle their differences aside then there could be quite the interesting working relationship between the two companies.

[Guest MikeSC]

Daniels got sort of a main event push last year, but the crowd didn't respond that well to it in the asylum. If I was any wrestler I'd take TNA any day over ROH. TNA is about to get on national tv and has the chance to explode in a big way. ROH is successful on a small scale, but seems content in just making money off tape sales and not expanding. The chance to make money is much greater in TNA.

Getting on national TV worked WONDERS for ECW.

-=Mike

[BoboBrazil 0]

ECW was too stupid financially. TNA runs a much tighter operation. They occasionally splurge on something, but not usually.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

ECW was too stupid financially. TNA runs a much tighter operation. They occasionally splurge on something, but not usually.

WHAT?? Are you listening to what you are saying??? TNA splurges every time they bring in a Sting, Luger, etc. Hell, they were going to bring in HOGAN!!!! That would be the biggest splurge that you could imagine.......

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

ECW was too stupid financially. TNA runs a much tighter operation. They occasionally splurge on something, but not usually.

WHAT?? Are you listening to what you are saying??? TNA splurges every time they bring in a Sting, Luger, etc. Hell, they were going to bring in HOGAN!!!! That would be the biggest splurge that you could imagine.......

Actually the biggest reason TNA has a better chance on tv is that it looks a million times better. ECW looked totally bush league when it was on tv with the shitties product you could imagine. TNA has at least WCW level production.

[TheBigSwigg 0]

ECW was too stupid financially. TNA runs a much tighter operation. They occasionally splurge on something, but not usually.

WHAT?? Are you listening to what you are saying??? TNA splurges every time they bring in a Sting, Luger, etc. Hell, they were going to bring in HOGAN!!!! That would be the biggest splurge that you could imagine.......

Actually the biggest reason TNA has a better chance on tv is that it looks a million times better. ECW looked totally bush league when it was on tv with the shitties product you could imagine. TNA has at least WCW level production.

At least has WCW level production? At least? WCW level production is pretty weak. Not saying it's worse than ECW, but the only reason WCW didn't look bush league is because it booked bigger arenas with Ted Turner's wallet.

 

Anyway, I think it's all monkey crap. I'd say a lot of TNA's fanbase is fans who've seen guys like AJ Styles and Christoper Daniels at ROH shows.

[Guest Dids]

Daniels' push was what- a few weeks?

 

TNA could make names out of Daniels, Punk- whoever if they could book for shit. Instead they still push Sting and bring in washedup old names.

[Guest Coffey]

Man, I totally don't care about any of this. I can't watch Ring of Honor when it happens, but I do get some tapes. I like the product because they produce good matches. I watch NWA:TNA quite a lot. A lot more than RoH, that's for sure. It's just easier for me to get the weekly PPV instead of ordering old tapes and then waiting for them to come in the mail.

 

That being said, I still don't care about any of this. I've never met Rob Feinstein, and I never will. I couldn't care less about what he has done. You think I'm not going to watch RoH because of him? HA! He has no bearing on my viewing habits whatsoever. He could come out and fuck a six-year old on screen...I'd just fastforward to the next Daniels or Styles match.

 

I don't care who ends up where, who wrestles where, or who can't go where. I just want to watch the show(s). I'll take either one over the other, or both. As long as I have at least one option other than WWE, I'll be happy. Fuck all the drama and shit that goes on off camera. I just want to watch wrestling.

[BoboBrazil 0]

Here is what they wanted the guy to sign:

 

STATEMENT REGARDING RING OF HONOR OWNERSHIP

 

I, ___________, a resident of ____________ do hereby swear and affirm the following:

 

I am currently involved with Ring of Honor as a silent investor and am familiar with all aspects of Ring of Honor operations

Rob Feinstein is no longer associated with Ring of Honor in any capacity and has sold all of his ownership interest in the company.

I have assurances from current Ring of Honor ownership that Rob Feinstein is not involved now and will not be involved in the future in any capacity with the company.

I am aware TNA has been approached by cable industry officials who are concerned that TNA talent is appearing on shows associated with Rob Feinstein, and that TNA could be damaged if the information provided to those cable industry officials is not accurate.

I agree that should the information in this statement not be true that I will be personally liable for any damages TNA Entertainment may suffer related to TNA contracted talent appearing on Ring of Honor events should Feinstein still be involved with Ring of Honor in any capacity.

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

TNA had several conversations with the investor urging him to sign the agreement but he refused. On Thursday night, TNA offered to soften the wording of the third bullet point to read "I have assurances from current Ring of Honor ownership that there are no plans at this time for Rob Feinstein to be involved in the future in any capacity with the company". The investor still refused to sign.

 

TNA made every effort to resolve the issue and did not make unreasonable demands.

 

TNA remains hopeful that the situation can be resolved so TNA contracted talent can appear on upcoming Ring of Honor events. The only thing preventing them from appearing on Ring of Honor shows at this time is the refusal of Ring of Honor's silent investor to sign the agreement that guarantees Rob Feinstein is not involved with the company.

 

Bob Ryder is Director of Administration & Talent Relations for TNA Entertainment, and co-owner of 1Wrestling.com

[Guest Dids]

This "I am aware TNA has been approached by cable industry officials who are concerned that TNA talent is appearing on shows associated with Rob Feinstein" is some gutless bullshit on the part of Fox.

 

Knowing who owns them it isn't shocking, but it's still just fucked up.

[Guest MikeSC]

This "I am aware TNA has been approached by cable industry officials who are concerned that TNA talent is appearing on shows associated with Rob Feinstein" is some gutless bullshit on the part of Fox.

 

Knowing who owns them it isn't shocking, but it's still just fucked up.

Who in the heck has ever heard of a company releasing confidential legal papers in an attempt to defend themselves?

-=Mike

[Vyce 0]

"NWA:TNA's decision to pull all of their contracted talent from upcoming dates with Ring of Honor was made after ROH's investor Cary Silkes was advised by his attorney not to sign a document that would hold him personally financially responsible for any possible damages incurred to NWA:TNA if Rob Feinstein was found to remain owner of ROH. ROH President Doug Gentry signed the exact same document a few days back. The two sides remain amicable and continue discussions. A source in TNA considered the situation "defused" after Gentry signed the document. "

Not signing only adds fuel to the fire for people who don't believe that Feinstein is truly gone.

 

People like me, for instance.

 

I think TNA WAY overestimates the damage that could be done if RF is still linked to RoH.

 

If your company suddenly gets a national TV deal, one that's possibly tenuous at best, would you want a significant portion of your more recognizable workers to be simultaneously working for a company that is STILL being run by a pedophile (oops, ALLEGED pedophile, have to fair to the kid-toucher's constitutional rights) after swearing that they'd gotten rid of him? I think RoH fans UNDERestimate the damage that could be done if RF is still linked to RoH.

 

WHAT?? Are you listening to what you are saying??? TNA splurges every time they bring in a Sting, Luger, etc. Hell, they were going to bring in HOGAN!!!! That would be the biggest splurge that you could imagine.......

 

Bringing in Savage, or Hall, or Nash, or Luger - that's unnecessary. Using Sting as they have is not a bad idea in my book.

 

But bringing in Hogan for a *limited* time is not, IMO, necessarily a bad thing. So long as he wasn't around for any real length of time, he could bring NWA some much needed attention, because despite the fact that his best days were a decade or more ago, Hogan STILL draws attention in the business almost like no other.

 

The door for Hogan should remain open for a while, but I will admitt that he shouldn't be used at this point - but they should reserve the option to bring him in later on.

 

I couldn't care less about what he has done. You think I'm not going to watch RoH because of him? HA! He has no bearing on my viewing habits whatsoever. He could come out and fuck a six-year old on screen...I'd just fastforward to the next Daniels or Styles match.

 

I can't even begin to describe how horrid an opinion that is.

 

I totally agree. Sure RF may be a scumbag, but he still had a company that produced great wrestling, which to me is the bottomline.

 

Let me get this straight - the fact that he put out a good product somehow mitigates the fact that he's a pedophile?

 

Oh, but you'd only really have a problem with that if he started to direct it at you. I see.

[Kardo 0]

That whole ROH investors are liable if any bad publicity comes from ROH and effects TNA is a bit ridiculous. It's like they are trying to grab money off ROH with ambigious wording.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

That whole ROH investors are liable if any bad publicity comes from ROH and effects TNA is a bit ridiculous. It's like they are trying to grab money off ROH with ambigious wording.

Which is ironic since you are ignoring the key wording yourself.

 

As long as RF doesn't have a foot in the door...they aren't liable for anything.

 

Gabe or Doug could go shoot a bunch of people in two months...and the signed document won't come into play.

[Michrome 0]

The document is a joke by any business law standards. Ask any lawyer advising a client if they'd ever have their client sign something like that...the answer would be no.

 

The problem is that it holds them financially liable if Feinstein is found to be involved in ANY capacity. What does this mean? If Feinstein still owns the Lexus bought by the company, is this grounds? If a bitter wrestler gets fired and says Feinstein is still involved, is this grounds? If Bob Barnette goes online and says a friend heard RF on the phone (he's done this), is that grounds? TNA needs to define what Rob being "back in any capacity" means. Nobody in their right mind would sign over financial liability on a contract that uses the term "any." It's amateur-hour in the Indies again. The contract needs to say: If Rob Feinstein is found to have any owning interest in the company...XXX

 

Beyond this, it's a breach of trust of their workers. I know that Daniels is pissed as hell, and I'm sure the others are too. They were told when they signed the contracts that they would be free agents on the weekends, but now TNA is taking that away without paying them more. TNA said it needed a signed assurance that Feinstein is gone to show to the cable companies. They got that. Now they've added a vague financial liability clause that any lawyer would wipe his ass with.

 

The real irony is that TNA is going to take all these guys and put them to waste, while ROH creates new stars. When Daniels' contract is up, he is going to bolt, and I wouldn't be surprised if others do too. Those contracts end in June, don't they? Maybe there's a reason Gabe has said he won't strip AJ unless he's not back by June

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

Arguing with RoH fanboys is like arguing with Randy Orton-lovers. It's a waste of time.

 

And no, my first glimpses of Styles & Daniels were in TNA putting on great matches. Not anywhere else. (I don't remember seeing Styles in WCW thank God)

[Mystery Eskimo 0]

I couldn't care less about what he has done. You think I'm not going to watch RoH because of him? HA! He has no bearing on my viewing habits whatsoever. He could come out and fuck a six-year old on screen...I'd just fastforward to the next Daniels or Styles match.

 

I can't even begin to describe how horrid an opinion that is.

 

Not really. Styles and Daniels didnt do anything wrong. If you're going to not watch wrestling because of dubious morals of company owners, then you're going to have a hard time finding anything in the US to watch.

 

And RF isnt having sex with 6 year olds.

[Guest MikeSC]

That whole ROH investors are liable if any bad publicity comes from ROH and effects TNA is a bit ridiculous. It's like they are trying to grab money off ROH with ambigious wording.

Which is ironic since you are ignoring the key wording yourself.

 

As long as RF doesn't have a foot in the door...they aren't liable for anything.

 

Gabe or Doug could go shoot a bunch of people in two months...and the signed document won't come into play.

Theoretically, with the wording, they can argue that the assumption that Feinstein is with them is hurting their business.

 

Then again, how a company that loses money already can have their business "hurt" is a ponderable.

-=Mike

[tpww7 0]

From PWInsider...People should read this.

 

 

 

MIKE JOHNSON LOOKS AT THE DOCUMENT THAT RAISES MORE QUESTIONS THAN IT ANSWERS AND WHAT THE ROH-TNA SITUATION ALL BOILS DOWN TO IN THE END

by Mike Johnson @ 11:55:00 AM on 4/11/2004

 

 

The document that ROH investor Cary Silkin refused to sign was posted last night on the wrestling news website 1Wrestling.com by Bob Ryder, who as a matter of full disclosure co-owns the site and is also the NWA:TNA Director of Administration & Talent Relations Bob Ryder. The complete document, according to 1Wrestling.com reads as follows:

 

STATEMENT REGARDING RING OF HONOR OWNERSHIP

 

I, ___________, a resident of ____________ do hereby swear and affirm the following:

 

I am currently involved with Ring of Honor as a silent investor and am familiar with all aspects of Ring of Honor operations

Rob Feinstein is no longer associated with Ring of Honor in any capacity and has sold all of his ownership interest in the company.

I have assurances from current Ring of Honor ownership that Rob Feinstein is not involved now and will not be involved in the future in any capacity with the company.

I am aware TNA has been approached by cable industry officials who are concerned that TNA talent is appearing on shows associated with Rob Feinstein, and that TNA could be damaged if the information provided to those cable industry officials is not accurate.

I agree that should the information in this statement not be true that I will be personally liable for any damages TNA Entertainment may suffer related to TNA contracted talent appearing on Ring of Honor events should Feinstein still be involved with Ring of Honor in any capacity.

 

 

Silkin, acting upon the advice of his attorney, declined to sign the document due to wording that would have made him personally liable for any damages occurred should TNA suffer damages. It should be noted that ROH's President Doug Gentry did sign the statement and returned it to NWA:TNA the same day it was faxed to ROH's office.

 

On Ring of Honor's message board, ROH's Gabe Sapolsky commented, stating, "As far as commenting on the document thing, I'm not going to say anything now except that not signing it for me and Cary wasn't an issue of Rob Feinstein, but rather an issue of personal liability. If you know anything about business or speak to a lawyer, they will tell you its insane to sign something vague that makes you personally liable. The Jarretts told me they just wanted a document signed so they could tell the cable companies that they have a document stating that ROH assures them that Rob is no longer with the company. They have the president and owner's signature on that document. They can tell the cable companies that the ROH president and owner has signed a document assuring them that Rob is not involved. Doug had his back against the wall and signed it despite the advice of everyone around him. TNA should be happy with that. I could go into more details at this time, but I won't. The only reason I posted this is because of the very one sided bullet points that Bob Ryder put up on his site today. I was also quoted in those bullet points that Doug is the owner "on paper." I never said that."

 

The posting of the document and the situation raises more questions than it answers, including:

 

*Why would NWA:TNA ask an investor in Ring of Honor to make himself personally liable on a legal document when they already have the President of the company binding himself to those wishes via the exact same document? You don't see every legal document involving WWE needing to be signed by everyone who owns a stock share. At no point has Cary Silkin claimed to own anything in ROH. Silkin is investing money into the company, looking to make a profit. Why would TNA ask him to sign anything when they have Gentry's signature? Why, if Gentry's signature wasn't enough, would they even ask Gentry to sign to begin with? Come to think of it, why would they have even asked Gabe Sapolsky to sign a document to begin with when he is just an employee?

 

*Exactly what event could cause ROH (and now Gentry) to be liable for damages? Yesterday, a website ran a story decrying ROH and RF Video for still listing Rob Feinstein as owner in corporate paperwork that was filed with the State of Pennsylvania "when ROH claimed ownership changes." Unfortunately the site failed to investigate laws in the State of Pennsylvania , which state that corporate changes only need to be filed within PA for non-profit companies, of which ROH is obviously not. The paperwork that was filed had been done so during the formation of the corporations. Now, had that report not been pulled off the website, could TNA use it as a basis for a damages claim? Could they use another incorrect or one-sided report to drag someone into a legal situation? With the broad wording of the document, what beyond the obvious could cause damages to begin with?

 

*What would be considered "damages" to TNA? If Christopher Daniels wakes up tomorrow and decides to boycott NWA:TNA over the situation, is that damaging to the company? If TNA should lose their prospective television deal with FOX Sports tomorrow, can they point to the ROH situation and blame Gentry (who has made himself personally liable by signing the document) as a reason and pursue Gentry legally? With no declaration of "what is damaging" to TNA, there is a broad spectrum that is left open, leaving TNA able to insert "damaging" to an endless number of scenarios against ROH.

 

*If TNA is so worried about damages to their company, why has NWA:TNA not shown good faith towards those who are their signed contractual talent by offering to pay them for the lost earnings they are now incurring by skipping scheduled ROH bookings?

 

*Why is it that 1Wrestling.com, co-owned by an NWA:TNA executive is presenting one side of the story when their owner (who may even be writing the stories himself) was involved in the meetings and telephone conversations with ROH officials to begin with? Why is it that the same news site has no coverage of ROH events for the last month at all, beyond stories involving the aforementioned ROH-TNA situation their owner was principally involved in? Can reports from 1Wrestling be used as evidence of "damages" to NWA:TNA down the line, given the obvious conflict of interest with the owner being heavily involved with the day to day operations of a wrestling promotion?

 

*Since when does any legally binding business agreement hold someone personally responsible to begin with for business matters? That is what led to the formation of corporations to start with.

 

*Given that TNA has already released the document, does that signify they have washed their hands of the situation already? Have fans seen the last of AJ Styles, etc. in ROH during their TNA contractual obligations?

 

*Was TNA seeking to have ROH not sign the document as a way to distance their talent from ROH while flaunting a public reason that "protects them" from criticism?

 

The above questions may read as an indictment of NWA:TNA. They are not. They are a look from the outside at the entire situation and how, much like ROH's original statements in the days following the Feinstein scandal, something designed to bring closure can often lead to more and more questions. As those questions grow, so does the mistrust. As the mistrust grows, nothing is ever truly answered in the eyes of those who don't want to see anything more than the situation spun to their own satisfaction. In the end of all the spins and lies, the fans and the wrestlers suffer the most and they are the ones putting their hearts into the business more than anyone else.

 

I can understand that NWA:TNA wants to protect its assets as it tries to complete a television deal with FOX Sports Network. I can understand not wanting to be caught in the fallout of one of the most disgusting scandals in professional wrestling. Really, TNA owes nothing to ROH and I can understand why they are playing hardball here. They need to protect themselves from the zealots who will email everyone they perceive to be involved with ROH. They need to protect the well being of a company that survives only because their own investor, Panda Energy, continues to funnel money into an entity that has run in the red for over two years. They need to make sure nothing rocks that boat so they can continue to exist and try to grow. They also want to insure that no one comes close to their internally viewed position as the top entity outside of WWE.

 

However, ROH's Doug Gentry stepped to the plate and signed to accept TNA's liability. Should the day come when Rob Feinstein is revealed to still be involved with ROH, Gentry and the ROH organization are doomed. Although fans, employees, and wrestlers have all united in saying they would abandon the ROH ship if Feinstein returns, Gentry is now the one left holding the ball and the one who stands to be hurt the most. He willingly signed his name and faxed it back to Nashville. TNA has his BUTT in a sling, forever. There is no end date on that document as it was posted online. It stands forever. The fact he was willing to put it there should stand for something. Thus far though, TNA wants more. They want Silkin to do the same.

 

That boils down to the basics of this business being nothing more than a con game built on sleaze and the dreams of others. The "I want it all" mentality. It was that mentality that allowed the WWF to destroy all the territories over two decades ago - a complete, utter inability for one wrestling promoter to trust another. One would think Jerry Jarrett would remember those circumstances as he outlasted everyone else.

 

Whether you blame ROH or TNA, when you remove the spin doctoring, the poorly worded public statements, and the ill-written legal documents, All that is left in the end are wrestlers being deprived of work and fans being deprived of their enjoyment because a few people want to cover their own asses.

 

Note: As a matter of full disclosure, it should be noted that I have run regular bus trips out of the New York City area to a number of promotions, including ROH, CZW, ECWA, WORLD-1, and JAPW. I do not, nor have I ever received, any financial reimbursement from any of the aforementioned wrestling promotions, nor any other wrestling promotion, for running the trips.

[Vyce 0]

Those contracts end in June, don't they? Maybe there's a reason Gabe has said he won't strip AJ unless he's not back by June

 

If A.J. were to leave NWA for ROH, then I'd proclaim him the biggest fucking moron on the planet.

 

He'd be as dumb as the Eugene character is supposed to be.

[Michrome 0]

Why? Leave a promotion that pays him less than ROH, breached his trust, overstepped their bounds, and is just going to get kicked off of fox in 13 weeks when their shitty program gains them no viewers? He signed the contract with a garauntee he'd be a free agent on the weekend. TNA has broken that promise.

[Michrome 0]

And no, my first glimpses of Styles & Daniels were in TNA putting on great matches. Not anywhere else. (I don't remember seeing Styles in WCW thank God)

 

I guess when you're a TNA fan, your standard for "great matches" is pretty low.

[BoboBrazil 0]

I doubt TNA pays AJ less than ROH. AJ can easily find another booking for the 1 or 2 dates a month ROH runs. The same can't be said for 3(about to be 4 again) week day bookings that TNA offers, which will soon be 5 if they do a monthly ppv and 4 fsn shows. The chance to make money is soo much greater in TNA. I think almost any wrestler would have to be an idiot to choose ROH over TNA, unless it is someone in a bit role like CM Punk that TNA never uses.

[tpww7 0]

AJ makes more money from ROH.