The OAO NBA Playoffs/Finals Thread

[NoCalMike 0]

It's LA. Probably 50% of the people that attend Laker games actually are passionate and know something about basketball, the rest are celebrities wanting camera time and people who just watch because they're winning. LA just doesn't strike me as a city that knows it's sports (unlike cities like Boston, NYC, Philly, etc.)

well it is about to get worse since Paul Tauglibue wants an NFL team in LA by 2008.

[Damaramu 0]

Yes I'm glad LA no longer has a football team. Football is something sacred for me.....and I don't think I could take seeing random celebrities in the crowd for publicity. It'd drive me nuts. Oh wait a minute....they already show up to the Super Bowl.

 

What drives me crazy about the celebrities is that you know they know nothing about basketball(well except for the guys like Nicholson and Denzel) but then there's some that you're just like "WTF!?" Like Jennifer Love Hewitt tonight. 10 bucks the Lakers is the only team she knows! I bet she doesn't even know who won last year! She probably thinks the Lakers did! Oh god! Go film a movie! Stay off my screen when I'm watching basketball.

[Damaramu 0]

As a Kings fan, I should hate the Lakers beyond sane control, but I am almost over it it really, I am starting to direct that hatred towards Laker fans. Everytime they have a home game on and they pan to the crowd, so you can see "random celebrity fake laker fan #1, 2, 3, 4 etc....." It is just irritating. Like it is some how more presitgious to have Jack Nicholson arguing an officials call instead of random drunk guy at every other stadium. Then you have celebs there that really have no business ever at a sporting event like Paris Hilton, I mean come on wtf is she doing there besides for the publicity?

 

The only thing that still really makes me fume at the actual Lakers is the fact that they don't think they EVER COMMIT A FOUL, EVER. I have not seen any Laker play just take the foul call like a man and start walking up the court, every whistle blown turns into a staredown with the ref and the classic, "do you who I am bitch, do you know who the fuck I am...." gaze. I mean just STFU and play.

 

Then there is Phil Jackson waiting for the refs after the game in the tunnel to "let them know" they called a bad game that night. Then he will go on a press conference and try to call the other team out for complaining about the calls.

 

Just ridiculous.

You noticed the foul thing to!?

Kobe Bryant is the one that drives me the craziest when it happens. He'll give that stupid ass "WTF?" grin and then go over there and argue with the ref then walk off with this goofy ass grin of "This guy's an idiot" And they do seem to give the "Do you know who I am? I'm Shaq/Kobe/Malone/Fisher/Payton bitch! You don't call a foul on me!" bullshit.

God I hope Detroit beats them. In LA! That'd be even sweeter.

[NoCalMike 0]

As a Kings fan, I should hate the Lakers beyond sane control, but I am almost over it it really, I am starting to direct that hatred towards Laker fans.  Everytime they have a home game on and they pan to the crowd, so you can see "random celebrity fake laker fan #1, 2, 3, 4 etc....."  It is just irritating.  Like it is some how more presitgious to have Jack Nicholson arguing an officials call instead of random drunk guy at every other stadium.  Then you have celebs there that really have no business ever at a sporting event like Paris Hilton, I mean come on wtf is she doing there besides for the publicity?

 

The only thing that still really makes me fume at the actual Lakers is the fact that they don't think they EVER COMMIT A FOUL, EVER.  I have not seen any Laker play just take the foul call like a man and start walking up the court, every whistle blown turns into a staredown with the ref and the classic, "do you who I am bitch, do you know who the fuck I am...." gaze.  I mean just STFU and play.

 

Then there is Phil Jackson waiting for the refs after the game in the tunnel to "let them know" they called a bad game that night.  Then he will go on a press conference and try to call the other team out for complaining about the calls.

 

Just ridiculous.

You noticed the foul thing to!?

Kobe Bryant is the one that drives me the craziest when it happens. He'll give that stupid ass "WTF?" grin and then go over there and argue with the ref then walk off with this goofy ass grin of "This guy's an idiot" And they do seem to give the "Do you know who I am? I'm Shaq/Kobe/Malone/Fisher/Payton bitch! You don't call a foul on me!" bullshit.

God I hope Detroit beats them. In LA! That'd be even sweeter.

Well it also boggles the mind that the "don't argue and get in the officials face" rule is kind of turned off or at least turned waaaaaaaay down, for the Lakers. I just don't understand what keeps the officials from calling technicals sometimes.

 

How about Kobe's circus shots, which take about 3-4 steps to make, followed by a whistle that is blown about 5 seconds after the play itself. So ludicrious that it has passed up, "anger" on my meter, to "HILARITY" level.

[Dangerous A 0]

Lake show in the Finals. Stern and Co. get their wish. In my opinion, the Pistons have the best chance of beating the Lakers, but I doubt they will since they have scoring droughts. I am pulling for the Pistons (assuming they win their series) since I believe they have the best chance of beating the Lakers, I just have a hard time envisioning it.

[NoCalMike 0]

Lake show in the Finals. Stern and Co. get their wish. In my opinion, the Pistons have the best chance of beating the Lakers, but I doubt they will since they have scoring droughts. I am pulling for the Pistons (assuming they win their series) since I believe they have the best chance of beating the Lakers, I just have a hard time envisioning it.

Well I agree with the mighty Skip Bayless, that the Lakers can be beaten, but that doesn't necessarily mean they will.

[Vern Gagne 0]

I'm pulling for the Lakers. They make an effort to score. Detroit's not bad and Indiana's style is nuseating. Plus, I hate the Celtics and want to see Jackson pass Auerbacher for most championships, and have the Lakers pull within 1 of the Celtics record of 16.

[Damaramu 0]

As a fan of the Celtics I definetly don't want LA to catch them. However I still maintain that this is LA's last year on top for a while. Hell Boston may get good again before LA does and pad the record.

[Vern Gagne 0]

With Ainge in charge of things. Not likely.

[Damaramu 0]

With Ainge in charge of things. Not likely.

*get's out checkbook*

Will he accept 200 bucks for the team?

 

 

Anyways I'd actually like to see The Rockets grab it next year. Out of the West them and The Mavericks are my two fav's. If The Rockets can get T-Mac they have a chance since they are such a young team. Plus I'm a fan of Hakeem Olajuwon from back in the day so I still support the Rockets based off of liking him when he played. I even had a Hakeem USA jersey when I was little. So I'd like to see The Rockets get back on top if at all possible. And the Mav's are just fun to watch.

But I actually think if they keep the same players and stay healthy that the T-Wolves have the best chance next season.

[Vern Gagne 0]

My biggest problem with the Wolves is Flip Saunders. A good regular season coach, who looks lost way too often in the postseason.

[Guest Vitamin X]

It's LA. Probably 50% of the people that attend Laker games actually are passionate and know something about basketball, the rest are celebrities wanting camera time and people who just watch because they're winning. LA just doesn't strike me as a city that knows it's sports (unlike cities like Boston, NYC, Philly, etc.)

I disagree. NYC fans are some of the most blatantly ignorant people I've ever seen in my entire life, but they get loud and passionate unlike LA fans, who stay quiet. Living on both coasts has taught me there's a great difference in lifestyle/philosophy between both places, on the West there's much more solitude and reserveness (is that a word? well I mean like being reserved) than on the East where people tend to be much more interactive with others. This plays a huge role in how the crowds are, are how the people are. Rarely you'll see a stadium out West that gets really insane as opposed to the East Coasters.

 

And you'd be surprised at how much the city really loves their sports teams. I stated in another thread that the Rams and Raiders still have some faithful left in Los Angeles, while ex-Rams and Raiders fans are dispassionate with football because of the teams that had left them. Clevelanders and Houstonites know how it feels like to lose a major sports franchise.. You just kind of miss the old teams and hate the ones that moved away. There's a MAJOR stereotype of Los Angeles being all "Hollywood" and stuff. Can't argue with that, however there's a LOT more to LA than just the Hollywood scene, but most people only focus on that part because that's all of Los Angeles they wish to know and recognize.

 

I think the bigger the city, the more idiots you'll have it just comes with having more humanity packed into a city, and LA and NYC just happen to be the two most populated cities in the United States.

[Ripper 0]

Well, hard fought series by the Wolves, but they couldn't hold it together without a real point.

 

And I was really suprised to see Phil Jackson, who isn't the most modest winner, FINALLY be someone to acknowledge that the Lakers were lucky that the wolves were without their ball handlers. Great defensive change by the lakers.

 

It was something to watch KG play basically every position and try to will his team to the win(and Latrell came up big AGAIN.) but they just didn't have enough. I would pay good money to see this series again with either Hudson or Cassell playing again.

 

I am sick of listening to people act like the games are the Lakers to lose and that the other team has nothing to do with it. "The Lakers didn't have the urgency so they let one go but they will win the next one when they try." Fuck that. The Lakers played hard everygame. All complacency determines is how you come out the gate, but they played hard, and teh Wolves played better for 2(maybe 3) games than them in the series. The Timberwolves have nothing to hang their heads about, Damn good year, damn good series, and they will be a beast next year.

[alfdogg 0]

Well, hats off to the Lakers for making it back, but hats off to Kevin Garnett as well...I can relate to his situation as I'm a Colts fan and Peyton Manning was in the same situation last season, it's just a shame that the Laker fans so far have chosen to gloat and mock the T-wolves much in the same way Manning and the Colts were mocked by most Patriot fans. I'll congratulate the Pistons if they win, I just hope they don't give us said treatment.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Don't worry Alf, the Pacers will take their series, and choke gloriously in the finals, but not before giving you hope.

[alfdogg 0]

I'll be happy as long as they just get there and make a competitive series out of it.

[Ripper 0]

O'neil was looking too gimpy out there and Tinsley looks like he shouldn't be walking. If they would give the players a fucking rest instead of accelerated schedule, it would be more of a series. but the Pistons got healthy, the Pacers got less healthy. I think that will be the difference maker

[alfdogg 0]

O'Neal was fine, he just wasn't getting his touches. Tinsley, on the other hand, should not have been playing, at all. He missed at least three layups, and rarely do I ever groan when someone shoots the ball, but Tinsley could barely get it to the rim last night. But Fred Jones aside, it was a bad night for everyone, Al Harrington lays another egg, Artest has apparently promised one good game a series, which came in game 4, Croshere was 0-7, and Reggie got FIVE shots. And we need to see more of Jonathon Bender, really.

[Spicy McHaggis 0]

Valencia High School

I went to St. Francis... man, Hart used to give us fits in the playoffs.

 

I'm so glad Rush and Slava (a couple of my guys) came through... although George stunk up the place. KG gets all the credit in the world, a class act. Sam Cassell needs to quiet down about his injuries though. They played a huge part, but Cassell being there would have changed the dynamic...and, the Lakers got bitched in Game 5 with no Cassell so you can't just make excuses for losses especially when you prove you can win. The Wolves will be back without a doubt.

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

I feel kind of bad for KG. He had a good season, but it's a let down for it to end like this. He has the MVP trophy but he has to watch the finals and he won't get another chance to make up for this diosappointment until a year from now. Also, no excuses should be made about injuries. Of the two teams that showed up last night, the best team won. No one can really argue that. You can't worry about what would have been and what could have been because that doesn't change anything. Stuff happens in life all that time like that. The series is over and even though the Lakers won, no one should look at the T-Wolves like losers.

[Damaramu 0]

Whoa I haven't really heard anyone mocking KG yet....but it wouldn't shock me.

All the sports analysts I hear on the radio are giving the T-Wolves there credit and saying that if Cassell had been healthy then it'd be bye bye Lakers.

But all The Lakers fans I've run into today are saying that The T-Wolves couldn't hold the Lakers jocks and that LA was never in danger of losing because Minnesota sucks. Oh and they already assume they've won the title. God I hope Detroit beats Indy and takes LA out.

Is that why your bench saved your ass and you didn't have control until the 4th quarter?

[Ripper 0]

Thats what a quality player is there for though. Funny. If Kobe had never been in foul trouble then Rush would have never touched the court. Funny how things work out.

 

The thing is...if they call the finals like they called last nights game, there is no way that the Lakers are going to lose. Both Indy and Detroit play agressive D and if they are going to call touchy shit like they did last night, the Pistons and Pacers will be in HORRIBLE shape while the Lakers would just be in bad shape. I pray to god we get to see BASKETBALL in the finals and not a freethrow contest like last night.

[Damaramu 0]

Last night truly was 2 men against the Lakers and there bench though. Hopefully Minnesota can deepen there bench over the off season.

My friend said it best.

"The Lakers keep bringing all these good players off there bench and Minnesota is bringing in all these untalented stiffs that can't even hit a layup! The Hell!?"

It's true though. LA's bench was so much better than Minnesota's bench. So it was basically KG and Spree trying to fend off all of The Lakers....and they were doing a damn good job of it until the 4th quarter.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Valencia High School

I went to St. Francis... man, Hart used to give us fits in the playoffs.

Fuck Hart. You want to talk about biased officiating, Fox Sports occassionally televised the Hart-Valencia games and even they made a note frequently on how biased the officiating was. And mention everytime Hart has ever had to undergo drug testing, they usually fail and forfeit a game. Then they'd have the gall to run around Santa Clarita with those lame "Hart High Alive With Pride" license frames, to which most VHS'ers would say "Yeah, ghey pride LOL". It's high school, I guess...

 

Back on topic..

The thing is...if they call the finals like they called last nights game, there is no way that the Lakers are going to lose. Both Indy and Detroit play agressive D and if they are going to call touchy shit like they did last night, the Pistons and Pacers will be in HORRIBLE shape while the Lakers would just be in bad shape. I pray to god we get to see BASKETBALL in the finals and not a freethrow contest like last night.

 

I think we're missing the fact that the officiating was horrible for BOTH sides. They really need to just not call the touchy shit.

 

All the sports analysts I hear on the radio are giving the T-Wolves there credit and saying that if Cassell had been healthy then it'd be bye bye Lakers.

 

But all The Lakers fans I've run into today are saying that The T-Wolves couldn't hold the Lakers jocks and that LA was never in danger of losing because Minnesota sucks. Oh and they already assume they've won the title. God I hope Detroit beats Indy and takes LA out.

See, now that's just absolutely insane. if Cassell had been healthy I don't think necessarily it would have been the only difference maker, but it certainly would be a way different series. This Minnesota team was way better than LA faced last year, and frankly went in overconfident because they just had the hardest fought series of the year (for them anyways). HOUSTON couldn't hold LA's jock straps, but San Antonio really kept their ego in check. Minnesota was more or less a bit of a wake-up call in Games 2 and 5, but KG's effort can't go without being recognized.

You can't worry about what would have been and what could have been because that doesn't change anything. Stuff happens in life all that time like that. The series is over and even though the Lakers won, no one should look at the T-Wolves like losers.

Exactly.

[sfaJack 0]

Hmmmmm.......

 

Anybody hear about Eddie Rush walking over the scorer's table and asking how many fouls Shaq had right after he got #5 called on him? Shouldn't he, as a referee, KNOW how many fouls Shaq has? Or shouldn't he ask his fellow officials or check the scoreboard for that if he's unsure? Why go to the scorer's table?

 

And, to further that, ex-ref Hugh Hollins was on Dan Patrick's radio show and basically admitted that the stars like Shaq are given preferential treatment in regards to fouls (shocking, I know).

 

If you didn't hear it, Patrick asked him why Rush would have done that and Hollins said something along the lines of "Well, we don't want to foul out a guy like Shaq or Kobe on a "ticky-tack" foul. All of the officials are made aware of those guys having five fouls, and we really need to make the sixth foul call an obvious one that everyone sees." (What is a "good" foul? Breaking someone's jaw?)

 

In regards to why a guy like Oliver Miller is treated differently than Shaq, Hollins said, "The officials know why Oliver Miller is in the game. He's in there to foul. We know that."

 

If that's the case (and it is), why is there a presumption of guilt as soon as Oliver Miller steps on the floor? As if Shaq or Kobe are incapable of committing six fouls? I don't get it. It's fucking bias, and I'd love to see somebody defend it. Come on, Laker fans. Seriously...if this "guilty before proven innocent" routine is as entrenched as it appears to be, how can you take the NBA seriously as a legitimate sport?

 

Oh, who am I kidding? This is the same league that let Karl Malone, the dirty asshole who doesn't deserve a ring, off the hook for knocking the shit out of Darrick Martin and Peeler is instantly suspended for two games for punking Garnett.

[Black Lushus 0]

same stuff Jordan had gotten away with for years...despite being the best ever, the man fouled and travelled as much as anyone and never got calls...

[Brett Favre 0]

Malone isn't getting a ring. Players that are dirty, ignorant, and loud mouth idiots don't get rings. Ask Charles Barkley. Ask Gary Payton after this season. And it's a combination of the three.

 

I'm saying it right now, and any Laker fan on the board can quote this on their sig or their mind, or whatever: If the Pistons make it to the NBA Finals, the Detroit Pistons will become the 2004 NBA CHAMPIONS. You better believe it.

 

First of all, Derek Fisher with a sprained knee is not going to stop Chauncey Billups, and Billups is already too quick for Gary Payton. Rip Hamilton will run off of screens left and right, tire Kobe or George, who ever is guarding him that night and just get easy layups because a) Malone and Shaq are two horrible lazy help defenders and b) Hamilton is quick as hell, to quick for someone like Kobe who has to focus on his offense and is not such a good man on man defender. Rasheed Wallace hates the Lakers, so you can expect him to play like he can, and Ben Wallace isn't going to be easy to fend off the boards like Ervin Johnson was for Shaq.

 

The Lakers so called "didn't give effort" in Games 2 and 5 of the last series, although I think that's BS. But for the people that do believe it, they will have to give effort in ALL the games. Mainly because Detroit is a much better defending team than the T'Wolves, so the Lakers can't expect to get one of those 10-0 runs on the Pistons anytime they feel like it. Larry Brown has already played the Lakers once in the finals, and actually beat them in one game with a team that consisted of Aaron McKie has their second leading scorer. The other games were close as well, so with a team that has 3 guys that can give you 20 (Billups, Hamilton, and Sheed) and 2 guys that can give you 10 and 10 (Ben, Prince), while having 2 bigs on the bench that can give Shaq a fight (Okur) and a guy who's actually played with Shaq (Elden Cambell), with a guy who is a pretty good post presence and should eat Medvenko alive (Williamson), and 2 speedy guards (James, Hunter), I'd say the Pistons have a great chance to win this series.

[Ripper 0]

Last night truly was 2 men against the Lakers and there bench though. Hopefully Minnesota can deepen there bench over the off season.

My friend said it best.

"The Lakers keep bringing all these good players off there bench and Minnesota is bringing in all these untalented stiffs that can't even hit a layup! The Hell!?"

It's true though. LA's bench was so much better than Minnesota's bench. So it was basically KG and Spree trying to fend off all of The Lakers....and they were doing a damn good job of it until the 4th quarter.

The Lakers bench couldn't hold a candle to the Wolves bench. The problem is, when you take one of those bench players and make them log starter minutes, you are changing the bench production. Fred Hoiberg and Wally Z and Mark Madsen had to play way more minutes to over compesate for hurt players. The Wolves had/have a great bench and their play in game one, two, and five are what kept them in or won the games for them. The lakers got great production from Rush last night, but outside of that, their bench hasn't done a freaking thing.

 

And blah blah blah on the "Lakers won, there isn't anything else to discuss" crap. If Shaq and Kobe break their legs tomorrow and the Lakers get swept in the finals, noone is going to stand by and while others say "See, the Lakers suck. they got swept. Told you Detoit/Indiana would own them." There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to see what the series would have actually been had it been healthy team against heatlhy team. If noone was in here talking like the Lakers have proven that they are the best team in the league because they beat the team with the best record. No, they didn't. They beat a hurt Timberwolves team in a great series. Not taking anything away from them because they won, but calling them the best team because they beat up on a injured team is bullshit. They were, Just as Phil Jackson said after the game, fortunate that they didn't ahve to deal with the minnesota guards in this series because they would have changed the series dramatically.

 

And Vit X yeah, I know last nights game was called too tight on both sides. None of the fouls were WRONG, but they were some of the most ticky tack shit I have ever seen. What I mean is, the Lakers have the stars that aren't gonna get fouled out in a tightly called game while I don't think the pacers or detroit have those benifit of the doubt players that the lakers have.

[sfaJack 0]

same stuff Jordan had gotten away with for years...despite being the best ever, the man fouled and travelled as much as anyone and never got calls...

Oh Jordan is one of the worst examples of referee bias ever. I loved watching Jordan play, but I'm not naive enough to think that every play he made was "clean."

 

I think I'm just blown away by the fact that an ex-NBA official flat-out said that the bias exists, and that not only does it exist but it is strongly taken into account when refs are calling a game. The admission of something that has been assumed (known) for years hurts the integrity of the game, imo, and it's really going to be hard to put that in the back of my mind from now on and just enjoy the game. How can I be sure I will be watching a truly fair game?

[Guest NaturalBornThriller4:20]

It's sad to seem them lose, but I can't feel bad. How do you not capitalize on Shaq, Kobe, and Malone being in foul trouble ? Damn, too bad it didn't get to game 7... IMO, KG would've played the game of his career.