Guest The Midnight Rocking Warrior Posted April 13, 2004 Report Posted April 13, 2004 Here's what I know: Took out the League indirectly. Beat the Punisher in Jla/Avengers Draw with Daredevil Knocked out a ringless Guy Gardner Lost to wonder woman one win against the Hulk One loss to the Hulk Sorry, my mind is blank right now, a little help?
KK Rage Posted April 13, 2004 Report Posted April 13, 2004 He made Superman his bitch in The Dark Knight Returns. Also beat Captain America in DC vs. Marvel.
Guest The Midnight Rocking Warrior Posted April 13, 2004 Report Posted April 13, 2004 DKR is an elseworld's story
Jingus Posted April 13, 2004 Report Posted April 13, 2004 If memory serves, he didn't actually beat Captain America, they just kinda decided to stop fighting. Also, Frank Miller must hate Superman, because Bats kicked his ass in DKR and DKSB as well. In the "real" world canon, Batman whipped an Ivy-controlled Superman's ass in the recent Hush storyline.
Sass Posted April 13, 2004 Report Posted April 13, 2004 Superman can never be cool. He's been beaten by Batman too many times decisively. DC shouldn't be surprised when people call him "lame."
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Posted April 13, 2004 Report Posted April 13, 2004 DKR is an elseworld's story Keep saying that, just don't be surprised when you get that answer EVERY time you start this topic up. TDKR is THE driving influence in the last twenty years of Batman comics. It's more canon then anything else.
Guest The Midnight Rocking Warrior Posted April 13, 2004 Report Posted April 13, 2004 Ok, why did no one answer me when I asked if a possessed Supes knocked out Batman easily in Day of Judgement # 4? And about to have your skull crushed by a car wielding Superman in hush is whipping his ass? And Dark Knight returns is possible, happy?
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Posted April 13, 2004 Report Posted April 13, 2004 Ok, why did no one answer me when I asked if a possessed Supes knocked out Batman easily in Day of Judgement # 4? And about to have your skull crushed by a car wielding Superman in hush is whipping his ass? And Dark Knight returns is possible, happy? This was already discussed, IN DEPTH, before. - Hush was a clear victory for Bats, he evaded Superman long enough that he could put a plan into motion to destroy his will to fight. The reason Superman was going to crush Bats with a car is because Bats STOPPED running, the plan was in motion and there was no reason to keep throwing stuff at Supes when he would have him back on his side in a couple seconds anyway. - I've never read Day of Judgment, but "knocking out" is pretty weak when you consider all the times Bats has made Supes look like a fool.
Guest The Midnight Rocking Warrior Posted April 14, 2004 Report Posted April 14, 2004 Fair enough, alright, I'll name a different hero, Spectre 2 (Hal)
Guest The Midnight Rocking Warrior Posted April 14, 2004 Report Posted April 14, 2004 I mean who what other heroes has he fought?
Vyce Posted April 14, 2004 Report Posted April 14, 2004 Nine times out of ten, Bats will beat Supes. The tenth time? He only loses because he wants to lose. Face it, Bats > Supes. Always has been, always will be.
Betty Houle Posted April 14, 2004 Report Posted April 14, 2004 If memory serves, he didn't actually beat Captain America, they just kinda decided to stop fighting. Right! And that was and awful mini-series anyway. Decided by the fans. Therefore it was a popularity contest. That's the only contest won between Cap and Bat. Captain America had his number in Avengers/JLA.
Betty Houle Posted April 14, 2004 Report Posted April 14, 2004 He made Superman his bitch in The Dark Knight Returns. That was completely unbelievable. It totally disregarded all of Superman's abilities. A poor job of writing on Miller's part (although DKR is excellent otherwise).
Betty Houle Posted April 14, 2004 Report Posted April 14, 2004 Nine times out of ten, Bats will beat Supes. No. 98 times out of a 100, Batman would lose to Superman. Of course, anyone could lose to anyone. These characters aren't real and don't follow logic so any write could write any outcome.
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Posted April 14, 2004 Report Posted April 14, 2004 Fair enough, alright, I'll name a different hero, Spectre 2 (Hal) They've never fought, but the fact that you even have to ask is an admission of just how tough Bats is. Spectre is the right hand of God himself. Batman... he's just a man who's reached his fullest potential in mind and body.
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Posted April 14, 2004 Report Posted April 14, 2004 He made Superman his bitch in The Dark Knight Returns. That was completely unbelievable. It totally disregarded all of Superman's abilities. A poor job of writing on Miller's part (although DKR is excellent otherwise). No, it was brilliant. It illustrated a simple point: With sheer will and a plan one man can move mountains.
Guest The Midnight Rocking Warrior Posted April 14, 2004 Report Posted April 14, 2004 That's not what I meant. I meant what other heroes has the Spectre fought? And I thought the Jla/avengers fight between Cap and Bats was pretty even.
Jingus Posted April 14, 2004 Report Posted April 14, 2004 It's very, very rare to see the Spectre "fight" anyone. His character is so ridiculously powerful that he's rarely used by any writers, except for the Alan Moores of the world. The only time I recall him actually trying to fight something (and losing) was when he tried to take on the big black Anti-God in Moore's run on Swamp Thing.
Betty Houle Posted April 15, 2004 Report Posted April 15, 2004 He made Superman his bitch in The Dark Knight Returns. That was completely unbelievable. It totally disregarded all of Superman's abilities. A poor job of writing on Miller's part (although DKR is excellent otherwise). No, it was brilliant. It illustrated a simple point: With sheer will and a plan one man can move mountains. That's what it symbolized and there's nothing wrong with that. It makes no logical sense though. Logic and comics. A bit of a stretch!
Betty Houle Posted April 15, 2004 Report Posted April 15, 2004 And I thought the Jla/avengers fight between Cap and Bats was pretty even. Fairly even actually. With Captain America having the advantage. Batman's a better detective; Captain America's the better fighter. Not by a whole lot but...
Vyce Posted April 15, 2004 Report Posted April 15, 2004 Nine times out of ten, Bats will beat Supes. No. 98 times out of a 100, Batman would lose to Superman. Of course, anyone could lose to anyone. These characters aren't real and don't follow logic so any write could write any outcome. I respectfully disagree. Batman could take down the whole fucking DC universe, if he wanted to. He's the REAL ubermensch.
Vyce Posted April 15, 2004 Report Posted April 15, 2004 Nine times out of ten, Bats will beat Supes. No. 98 times out of a 100, Batman would lose to Superman. Of course, anyone could lose to anyone. These characters aren't real and don't follow logic so any write could write any outcome. I respectfully disagree. Batman could take down the whole fucking DC universe, if he wanted to. He's the REAL ubermensch.
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Posted April 15, 2004 Report Posted April 15, 2004 He made Superman his bitch in The Dark Knight Returns. That was completely unbelievable. It totally disregarded all of Superman's abilities. A poor job of writing on Miller's part (although DKR is excellent otherwise). No, it was brilliant. It illustrated a simple point: With sheer will and a plan one man can move mountains. That's what it symbolized and there's nothing wrong with that. It makes no logical sense though. Logic and comics. A bit of a stretch! It does make sense. Batman fought dirty, and by the time Superman was willing to really FIGHT with him it was too late.
Betty Houle Posted April 15, 2004 Report Posted April 15, 2004 He made Superman his bitch in The Dark Knight Returns. That was completely unbelievable. It totally disregarded all of Superman's abilities. A poor job of writing on Miller's part (although DKR is excellent otherwise). No, it was brilliant. It illustrated a simple point: With sheer will and a plan one man can move mountains. That's what it symbolized and there's nothing wrong with that. It makes no logical sense though. Logic and comics. A bit of a stretch! It does make sense. Batman fought dirty, and by the time Superman was willing to really FIGHT with him it was too late. I guess we'll just have to agree that you're wro- I mean, we'll have to agree to disagree! Peace.
Steviekick Posted April 16, 2004 Report Posted April 16, 2004 It seems we have this thread every month. It's this folder's version of the WWE folder's Randy Orton threads...
Special K Posted April 16, 2004 Report Posted April 16, 2004 No one ever seems to remember this, but Superman was in fairly bad shape entering the fight with Bats in DKR. I mean, he was a bloody skeleton, a few days ago. That's not a knock on Bats, he's an opportunist; but it makes it more 'realistic'. And the fact that DC wouldn't decide forever if DKR was canon, pretty much makes it canon in my book.
Betty Houle Posted April 16, 2004 Report Posted April 16, 2004 And the fact that DC wouldn't decide forever if DKR was canon, pretty much makes it canon in my book. In your twisted mind, perhaps.
Jingus Posted April 16, 2004 Report Posted April 16, 2004 DKR isn't canon, for the simple reason of Gordon's wife. She's one of his main motivations in the book, remember? "I just think of Sarah..." Which was all shot to hell when Joker killed her at the end of No Man's Land. Plus, if you accept DKR as canon... then you've probably also gotta take Dark Knight Strikes Back too. And who in their right minds would want to open that can o' worms?
Steviekick Posted April 17, 2004 Report Posted April 17, 2004 DKR isn't canon, for the simple reason of Gordon's wife. She's one of his main motivations in the book, remember? "I just think of Sarah..." Which was all shot to hell when Joker killed her at the end of No Man's Land. Plus, if you accept DKR as canon... then you've probably also gotta take Dark Knight Strikes Back too. And who in their right minds would want to open that can o' worms? Very true. I've always been under the assumption that DKR is not canon. Just because it's a crowning achievement in the super hero doesn't necessarily mean that it's canon. Writers just like making references to it because it's an alternate ending for the Batman mythology, just like how Magog from Kingdom Come appeared in the Superman series.
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Posted April 17, 2004 Report Posted April 17, 2004 DKR isn't canon, for the simple reason of Gordon's wife. She's one of his main motivations in the book, remember? "I just think of Sarah..." Which was all shot to hell when Joker killed her at the end of No Man's Land. Plus, if you accept DKR as canon... then you've probably also gotta take Dark Knight Strikes Back too. And who in their right minds would want to open that can o' worms? Very true. I've always been under the assumption that DKR is not canon. Just because it's a crowning achievement in the super hero doesn't necessarily mean that it's canon. Writers just like making references to it because it's an alternate ending for the Batman mythology, just like how Magog from Kingdom Come appeared in the Superman series. It doesn't matter if it's canon. It's the most influential comic of the 80's. It pretty much defines who Batman is from that point on. It's canonical status is a moot point.
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