TNA Thread For 4/21

[Guest MikeSC]

Meltzer always writes the TNA recap.

Wow, he does. I never noticed that.

 

Thing is, his criticisms are valid. Traci siding with Michael made no sense and the swapping of the tag titles is just idiotic.

-=Mike

[BoboBrazil 0]

Traci siding with Shane will be explained next week I'm sure. The tag title thing I don't mind, because I couldn't care less about tag team wrestling really so it doesn't bother me, but I do see why some would have a problem with it. I can see where it is heading though as I'm sure it will lead to a no dq match between the two teams for the tag titles either next week or the week after as a blowoff.

[Placebo Effect 0]

Through Xplosion in recent weeks, it's been shown that Traci and Michael Shane have a very strong friendship, while Douglas is there to walk in and cause tension.

[4hartthreat 0]

As much as people complain about Jarrett he's had a more consistent body of work over the last few years.

No, he really hasn't. His work has been piddling for years now. He's had no great matches in his life.

I wanna speak out on this. I agree completely with Mad Dog on this issue. Jarrett has been one of the more consistent performers in wrestling over the last 6 or so years. When he went back to WCW in 99 he jumped immediately into the role of company MVP. He was having 2 or 3 matches a night on many shows. And they were good matches at that. He was having goos matches with EVERYONE from Benoit to even Konnan. A lot of the big players were out like Hart and Jarrett took the ball and ran with it. During 2000 HHH became a favorite with smarks and rightfully so. He was the obvious MVP of WWF. At some point in 2000 though, JJ's work as WCW's MVP became so impressive to me that he surpassed HHH as the best in wrestling at the time. When WCW ended he didn't get a chance to go to WWE, which I think is a real shame, and disappeared off the national scene for a while. But when TNA came on, he went right back to having good to great matches again. Now I wouldn't put his TNA work up there with his WCW work, but his matches with AJ, Raven, and others have been pretty good.

 

And as for your no great matches comment, that is totally false. I would say the only one for sure is his IC title match with Shawn at IYH 2 which is a 5 star classic. I would say he has at least one more great match, which was a match with Malenko on a PPV during his first WCW run, but that is a little known match. I would also like to say that I think his first WCW run is completely underrated as he had really good matches with the likes of Benoit, Malenko, Jericho, Flair, DDP, and others.

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

I hope TheMikeSC is a ROH Fan, then I can do the "Jarrett should lose the title", he loses, then more compalining "he should've lost it cleaner!".

[Guest dvkorn]

As much as people complain about Jarrett he's had a more consistent body of work over the last few years.

No, he really hasn't. His work has been piddling for years now. He's had no great matches in his life.

I think we must have been watching a different Jeff Jarrett for... i dunno, his entire career...

 

To say you are a little bias against Jarrett would probably be an understatement, and similarly i would probably be classed as a bit bias toward Jarrett.

 

I am not saying that this is exactly right but i think you may not just like the style Jarrett works but he is definately a great worker.

 

Consistentcy seems to be his middle name... never really has a bad match.. sure some aren't the best but never really a bad one, always some facets of them that are enjoyable, well at least to me. When he's with a good worker, he can have an awesome match and when he's with an average worker he can have a good match... Jarrett's 99 WCW work is what made me a fan of him and i have watched him since then and sought out matches from years gone by that i have not seen and watched them and Jarrett has definately had some 'great' matches.

 

I can list many matches Jarrett has had in recent years (which you said has been 'piddling') and his entire career that have been 'great'.

 

Shall I...?

 

I'll leave you with some quotes from various wrestlers.

 

"***I have always been a fan of Jeff Jarrett's wrestling ability. I do think he needs more matches with guys like AJ Styles and Raven to showcase his ability. Being in WCW for so long, he wasn't given the chance to showcase what kind of great pro-wrestler that he is.***" - Steve Corino (SteveCorino.com Messageboard)

 

"BH: I've always been a big fan of Jeff Jarrett, somebody who I've got a lot of regard for both as a friend and as a professional. " - Bret Hart (NZPWI.com interview - 2003)

 

"SB: Jeff Jarrett? Great worker. One of my favourite guys to have a match with." - Sting (NZPWI.com interview - May 2003)

 

There was another good one from Lance Storm from a few years ago in his reply to the DVD 500... but since Storms change of site i haven't been able to find it. He put Jarrett over quite huge though...

[eirejmcmahon 0]

They were dumb for not just advertising Styles vs. Jarrett.  I'd have to think the belief that Styles had a good chance to win would have netted more buys than believing Chris Harris might win.

I honestly can't believe how wrong-headed this whole move was.

 

If they'd built to AJ/JJ in a cage the exact same way they'd built to Harris/JJ then tonight would have done a really good buyright.

 

I just don't get the thinking here.

 

Having said that, the match itself wasn't really up to much, so maybe it's just as well that it didn't have a big build up!

[Michrome 0]

I can list many matches Jarrett has had in recent years (which you said has been 'piddling') and his entire career that have been 'great'.

 

Shall I...?

 

Name me the "great" matches since 1995.

 

If you're going to name his matches vs. Styles, and the one vs. Raven, just spare us all the headache.

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

I can list many matches Jarrett has had in recent years (which you said has been 'piddling') and his entire career that have been 'great'.

 

Shall I...?

 

Name me the "great" matches since 1995.

 

If you're going to name his matches vs. Styles, and the one vs. Raven, just spare us all the headache.

How about saying why Jarrett is a shitty-below average worker? I'm not a Jarrett fan, but his matches are always in the range of good. I honestly can't think of any matches in recent time that were bad. But I can't do the same with "Great". He's just consitant. Down the middle of the road. Steady. The lsit goes on for the term so I'll stop now.

[Guest TDinDC1112]

How was that not a clean finish? Jarrett went to hit AJ with the guitar and AJ kicked it. It didn't hit Jarrett though. Then Jarrett went to swing the broken guitar at AJ and AJ did a crucifix for the win? What's not clean about that? What did you want Jarrett to do? Just lay down without being touched?

[The Thread Killer 0]

How was that not a clean finish? Jarrett went to hit AJ with the guitar and AJ kicked it. It didn't hit Jarrett though. Then Jarrett went to swing the broken guitar at AJ and AJ did a crucifix for the win? What's not clean about that? What did you want Jarrett to do? Just lay down without being touched?

 

That's an excellent question, and one I was going to ask before you beat me to it.

 

Jarrett comes in with the guitar, and swings it. Styles explodes the guitar with a sweet looking kick.

 

Jarrett stands there with a look of shock on his face, tries to swing the handle, and AJ does a backslide for the pin.

 

If Styles had hit Jarrett with the guitar, or something like that, I would see your point, but basically, the way it looked to me was that Styles outsmarted and outwrestled Jarrett.

 

Having said that, I have seen each and every show for the past year and a half, and this was not a great show by any means. However, it wasn't a total stinker either.

 

The bottom line is this, since the writing team has become Jarrett, Mantel and Russo, the shows have become much better. Nobody can argue that the shows from after Mantel was hired, up until Russo came back were pretty damn bad, (with the exception of the X Cup Shows.)

 

However, I would say that over the past six weeks, since Russo came back, things have been improving. Thing is, I am not a Russo supporter, I usually can't stand him. Somewhere in this folder there is a thread with me arguing with somebody that said Russo was a "genius."

 

I think that while this show was fair to okay, the results of the Main Event, in addition to what looks to be a Styles vs. Raven feud for the title are a step in the right direction. Some Jarrett and TNA haters just won't see it that way however, and will never be happy, and that's too bad.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

I can list many matches Jarrett has had in recent years (which you said has been 'piddling') and his entire career that have been 'great'.

 

Shall I...?

 

Name me the "great" matches since 1995.

 

If you're going to name his matches vs. Styles, and the one vs. Raven, just spare us all the headache.

What part of consistent didn't you understand. No one was saying he goes out and does ***** matches every night. People were talking about how he goes out and puts on solid to good matches.

 

Let's look at his first title reign. He beats Ron Killings in an extremely good match and minus the Hennig title defenses usually put on about a *** match when he defended it. During the current reign his matches have been most of the only ones that have managed to break the *** barrier with Mantel's booking. He also did carry Harris in that match a month ago.

[humongous2002 0]

Jarrett is a decent worker and a great heel but thank God that he is not the NWA champion anymore.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

The only problem people are having with Jarrett is that he's been the NWA Champion. Otherwise they really shouldn't have any complaints because Jarrett is competant in the ring. I am not a JJ fanboy or anything but he's still better than a lot of other guys in the company.

[tpww7 0]

You know I may of actually bought it if they advertised AJ-Jarrett....

[Guest MikeSC]

I wanna speak out on this. I agree completely with Mad Dog on this issue. Jarrett has been one of the more consistent performers in wrestling over the last 6 or so years. When he went back to WCW in 99 he jumped immediately into the role of company MVP. He was having 2 or 3 matches a night on many shows.

But the matches weren't GOOD. With JJ, you can pretty well write in a 3-star affair with most anybody --- not much higher, not much lower.

And they were good matches at that. He was having goos matches with EVERYONE from Benoit to even Konnan.

That, flat out, is bunk.

A lot of the big players were out like Hart and Jarrett took the ball and ran with it.

But he wasn't GOOD. Heck, WCW didn't become watchable again at all until JJ LOST THE TITLE FOR GOOD.

During 2000 HHH became a favorite with smarks and rightfully so. He was the obvious MVP of WWF. At some point in 2000 though, JJ's work as WCW's MVP became so impressive to me that he surpassed HHH as the best in wrestling at the time.

That is, without a doubt, the most ridiculous argument I've ever read.

 

HHH v Rock --- ANY of their matches in 2000 --- surpass anything in JJ's body of work.

 

Throw in great matches with TAKA, Rikishi, Jericho, Benoit, and Angle and you have HHH thrashing JJ in the workrate area.

When WCW ended he didn't get a chance to go to WWE, which I think is a real shame, and disappeared off the national scene for a while. But when TNA came on, he went right back to having good to great matches again. Now I wouldn't put his TNA work up there with his WCW work, but his matches with AJ, Raven, and others have been pretty good.

No, they haven't. His match w/Raven had a great build-up --- but the MATCH itself was blah. And none of his matches with AJ approach AJ's best work.

And as for your no great matches comment, that is totally false. I would say the only one for sure is his IC title match with Shawn at IYH 2 which is a 5 star classic.

Re-watch it. It does not age well.

I would say he has at least one more great match, which was a match with Malenko on a PPV during his first WCW run

Likely you mean Slamboree '97 --- and the match was unmitigated crap.

but that is a little known match. I would also like to say that I think his first WCW run is completely underrated as he had really good matches with the likes of Benoit, Malenko, Jericho, Flair, DDP, and others.

No, he REALLY didn't. He is the king of *** matches. He never goes above that level.

What part of consistent didn't you understand. No one was saying he goes out and does ***** matches every night. People were talking about how he goes out and puts on solid to good matches.

 

Let's look at his first title reign. He beats Ron Killings in an extremely good match and minus the Hennig title defenses usually put on about a *** match when he defended it. During the current reign his matches have been most of the only ones that have managed to break the *** barrier with Mantel's booking. He also did carry Harris in that match a month ago.

Mediocrity and consistency are not the same thing.

 

Jarrett is mediocre.

How was that not a clean finish? Jarrett went to hit AJ with the guitar and AJ kicked it. It didn't hit Jarrett though. Then Jarrett went to swing the broken guitar at AJ and AJ did a crucifix for the win? What's not clean about that? What did you want Jarrett to do? Just lay down without being touched?

I guess you missed Russo's distraction with climbing up the cage constantly.

 

HHH at WM XX --- THAT was clean.

Heck, Shelton over HHH --- THAT was clean.

 

AJ over JJ --- not clean.

 

Then again, HHH >>>>>>>> JJ.

Consistentcy seems to be his middle name... never really has a bad match.. sure some aren't the best but never really a bad one, always some facets of them that are enjoyable, well at least to me.

Again, people confuse un-ending mediocrity with consistency.

When he's with a good worker, he can have an awesome match

Umm, when?

and when he's with an average worker he can have a good match...

Umm, when?

Jarrett's 99 WCW work is what made me a fan of him and i have watched him since then and sought out matches from years gone by that i have not seen and watched them and Jarrett has definately had some 'great' matches.

JJ's 99 WCW work was not good, at all. His best match of that era was with Benoit --- and it was worse than Benoit's normal work.

I can list many matches Jarrett has had in recent years (which you said has been 'piddling') and his entire career that have been 'great'.

 

Shall I...?

Feel free. Just remember this...

 

NOBODY has had the best match of their career with JJ.

 

Nobody.

 

Nobody had a match markedly better than their usual work with JJ.

 

Nobody.

-=Mike

[eirejmcmahon 0]

I'm still trying to figure out the logic behind putting this match on with no build-up, especially given the amount of effort that was put into getting Harris to this stage!

 

The best I can come up with is that this is a sop to AJ for being pull of ROH shows. Even still, could they not have put it off for a week and ADVERTISED it in ADVANCE ?

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

And as for your no great matches comment, that is totally false. I would say the only one for sure is his IC title match with Shawn at IYH 2 which is a 5 star classic.

Re-watch it. It does not age well.

First things first, there is NO WAY I would rate JJ/HBK from IYH 2 as a five star classic, it's more like ***3/4, but honestly I think it is a really good match and I've watched it recently. But in all honesty, I am gonna have to say that this is probably JJ's best match match he's ever had......at least that I've seen.

[Guest MikeSC]

And as for your no great matches comment, that is totally false. I would say the only one for sure is his IC title match with Shawn at IYH 2 which is a 5 star classic.

Re-watch it. It does not age well.

First things first, there is NO WAY I would rate JJ/HBK from IYH 2 as a five star classic, it's more like ***3/4, but honestly I think it is a really good match and I've watched it recently.

I LOVED it the first time I saw it. Would've given it an easy ****.

 

Now, maybe ***.

 

Again, nobody seems to work BETTER with JJ than they do without him.

-=Mike

[OldSchoolWrestling 0]

<<<<-----------------

 

 

I've been saying fuck Jeff Jarrett for months now. But I only direct that at JJ the owner/booker. I hated that he had to be in every skit and would do a run in on half the matches on a card. I hated that he was booking himself over everyone. I hated his long title reign.

 

But I have been, and still am, a fan of JJ the wrestler. I loved the promo he cut a few weeks ago when their were 4-5 #1 contenders and he ran down why each one wasn't up to his level. I enjoy his matches for the most part as he keeps me entertained. If he allows others to share the spotlight I will continue to be a fan of his and remove the Fuck Jeff Jarrett from my avatar saying.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

Now, maybe ***.

 

Again, nobody seems to work BETTER with JJ than they do without him.

-=Mike

You know what Mike, that is something that I would agree with totally. Do you think that him and HBK is his best match.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Good lord, how long was JJ the NWA Champion this time?

[Guest MikeSC]

Now, maybe ***.

 

Again, nobody seems to work BETTER with JJ than they do without him.

    -=Mike

You know what Mike, that is something that I would agree with totally. Do you think that him and HBK is his best match.

For JJ? Yeah, I'd say it is a rather dominant "Best match" choice for Jeff.

-=Mike

[Guest TDinDC1112]

I don't think there is anything even close to that match with HBK for him.

[The Thread Killer 0]

I guess you missed Russo's distraction with climbing up the cage constantly.

 

With all due respect, I disagree Mike. I don't think Russo's interference was "constant." I think that he got involved that one time, trying to climb up the cage to prevent JJ from cheating, but 95% of that match was free from outside interference. Even Russo's coming out made sense from a storyline perspective.

 

In character, the whole "Road To The Cage" angle was designed by Russo as the Director of Authority to prevent him from cheating to hold onto his belt. That's why he came running out, and that's why it was so awesome when the attempted guitar shot literally blew up in his face. Jarrett was trying all of his dirty tricks to hold onto that title, but every single one failed him, and he finally lost the belt.

 

Now as far as your assessment of his skills, I agree. Jarrett is pretty much a *** wrestler. He usually won't stink up the ring unless he's in there with somebody like James Storm, so he can put on perfectly watchable matches, but even when he's in there with a 5 Star performer like Styles or Benoit, he can still only put on a 3 Star performance. He is a midcard talent with main event ambition. There are plenty of people worse than Jeff Jarrett in the ring, but there are also plently of guys that are better than he is.

 

You know Low Ki was being called "Mr. Match Of The Year" in the early days of ROH, or RVD has his "Five Star Frog Splash" maybe Jarrett can become "Mr. Mediocre" or have the "Three Star Leglock" or something.

[Guest Goodear]

OK, I knew something bothered me about this AJ title shot and I finally figured it out. Granted I follow NWA purely through internet reports so all sorts of this stuff could be shakey.

 

OK... so Abyss beats AJ and is called the number one contender the same week that Jarrett beats Harris for the first time. But to get that title shot, Abyss has to wrestle The Truth and the Harris in order to actually get that shot. But then that matchy gets schmozed and like four people get involved in a shot for the title that again gets schmozed... And then Harris beats Raven for the shot for the next show.

 

And then AJ gets the shot because Russo gives it him.

 

What the fuck was the point of those million BILLION matches for a title shot? ESPECIALLY since AJ didn't win a one of them that I can remember? Its typical Russo 'swerve = good story' booking strategy that has always proven to be a collosal failure without a hard editing hand on Russo's shoulder. Awful fundamental storytelling... Awful.

 

EDIT: Oh and when exactly was the last World Title change that didn't involve Russo?

Edited April 22, 2004 by Goodear

[Guest The Last Free Voice]

I think everyone is being to caught up in their own opinions here. The important thing is we have a new champ. Pretty much everyone here (that I have read, anyway) thinks, or thought, Jarrett shouldn't be champ. Just saying...

[Guest MikeSC]

I guess you missed Russo's distraction with climbing up the cage constantly.

 

With all due respect, I disagree Mike. I don't think Russo's interference was "constant." I think that he got involved that one time, trying to climb up the cage to prevent JJ from cheating, but 95% of that match was free from outside interference. Even Russo's coming out made sense from a storyline perspective.

 

In character, the whole "Road To The Cage" angle was designed by Russo as the Director of Authority to prevent him from cheating to hold onto his belt. That's why he came running out, and that's why it was so awesome when the attempted guitar shot literally blew up in his face. Jarrett was trying all of his dirty tricks to hold onto that title, but every single one failed him, and he finally lost the belt.

 

Now as far as your assessment of his skills, I agree. Jarrett is pretty much a *** wrestler. He usually won't stink up the ring unless he's in there with somebody like James Storm, so he can put on perfectly watchable matches, but even when he's in there with a 5 Star performer like Styles or Benoit, he can still only put on a 3 Star performance. He is a midcard talent with main event ambition. There are plenty of people worse than Jeff Jarrett in the ring, but there are also plently of guys that are better than he is.

 

You know Low Ki was being called "Mr. Match Of The Year" in the early days of ROH, or RVD has his "Five Star Frog Splash" maybe Jarrett can become "Mr. Mediocre" or have the "Three Star Leglock" or something.

Who was it who mentioned that it was sad that Russo stood up to the monster Abyss --- who has basically walked all over everybody up to this point.

 

It's like Shane v Kane --- without the possibility of a neat bump.

-=Mike

[JoeDirt 0]

I'm guessing this leads to an AMW heel turn. Harris asked for the shot to be given to Storm, but it's given to Styles for no apparent reason. Then heel AMW goes after Styles, as does Raven, as does Jarrett, as does Abyss. Or maybe not...that's a lot of heels.

[TNABaddboi 0]

I'm guessing this leads to an AMW heel turn. Harris asked for the shot to be given to Storm, but it's given to Styles for no apparent reason. Then heel AMW goes after Styles, as does Raven, as does Jarrett, as does Abyss. Or maybe not...that's a lot of heels.

 

I'm thinking they're going to use Raven/Styles as the top feud heading into the TV deal and blow that off around the anniversary show (which really needs a name to help it stand out as important, btw)....perhaps with Harris returning to cost Raven his title shot like Raven cost him his. And then from there, Raven and a partner feud with AMW and Styles goes over Jarrett again (to gain credibility in the new viewers eyes) and then finally Styles drops the belt to Abyss. After Abyss plows through everyone else, his run will probably be stopped by The Truth. At least that its vision for the rest of the year....