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Guest TigerDriver91

Bradshaw Causes Incident At House Show

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How the fuck can something like this get to 10 pages. Peoples hatred for Bradshaw is making this a much bigger issue than it really is. Most sensible people would look at what he did and say "Hmm, he tried to get heat for his charcter, albeit in a tastless way, oh well". Anybody who takes saw what Bradshaw did and than thinks "OMG Hes such a racist bastard" really needs to stop and think about the situation clearly. Did you get that way when you saw Ed Nortons charcter in "American History X"? If you were smart, you wouldn't have. You would realise that he was playing a bad guy character. Doesy anybody read Scotsmans site and think that he really hates blacks and all other minorites? No, you realise that he does it to show people how stupid it is to get worked up over things like that.

 

The fact of the matter was that he was PORTRAYING A BAD PERSON. A bad person does that sort of thing. While it may not have been very tasteful, it was done. This is just people making a mountain out of a molehill

 

BTW a pre-emptive Fuck you to anybody who in any way tries to misconstrue this as defending Nazis. That isnt at issue here, so dont bring it up

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Guest Trivia247

Bradshaw is 2k4 HHH...

 

with subtle differences

 

HHH is far more skilled a wrestler...

 

HHH is most intelligent to the point of knowing how to remain in his spot without being stupid about it.

 

HHH doesn't make a calculated mistake when trying to generate heat for himself..

 

Bradshaw is Punch kick Fallaway slam, Powerbomb Super backdrop Hanson Clothesline from Fox wrestler

 

Bradshaw doesn't quite have the grasp in the position that Vince is just pushing him for and so makes his short comings more obvious.

 

Bradshaw gambles to generate heat Going the Nimby (Not in my back yard) barely under the racist radar style. And does the extreme in order to get boos.. (scripted verbal and grabbing on Eddy's Ma) and of course Siggy Hai

 

Had Bradshaw remain in a tag team forumuli with Ron (im a star punk ) Simmons where they are just big Hosses who become fan favorite without too much skill needed show. He probably do fine. Especially everytime he goes into Texas Bradshaw becomes almost a Bard relating the LONG list of Championships of every Sporting event including checkers Squash and Water polo that Texas won.

 

But ..... Now that Ron mr ego hophead is gone, Braddy boy is now thrusted to the limelight by good ol V K with Pritchard the Cruiserweight slayer's blessing. And we are stuck with John main eventing for three or so months.

 

Its all about the Alamo. Vince wants Mexico to pay for their attack on Alamo, So Bradshaw will attack and destroy that Bastard Guerrero from.... El Paso!

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Doesy anybody read Scotsmans site and think that he really hates blacks and all other minorites? No, you realise that he does it to show people how stupid it is to get worked up over things like that.

I do.

 

But yeah, Bradshaw isn't Mista Racyst. He did something stupid and paying the reprecussions.

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Um, no. Not every major wrestler has done drugs or has been an alcoholic. Next.

 

Most of them indeed have. Shall I make a list for you? They would be even names that have basically been confirmed by shoots, reports from travel partners, etc., and not include the instances of drug use and infidelity that goes on constantly even today.

 

Um, I hate to break this to you Andrew, but that's usually how you draw heat, a good, heavily pushed gimmick. And looking at house show reports and SD! Tapings, it seems to be working very nicely for Layfield.

 

This is opposed to all the wasted talents who still get heat and reactions despite next to no push or a lousy gimmick, but Bradshaw is handed a god push, tons of squash matches, tons of air time, and a title shot on a silver platter, and viewers are leaving in droves. Heh...

 

Logical or no, a lot of smarks heavily dislike guys like Bradshaw and Orton because WWE say fit to push them, because they are viewed as undeserving.

 

Of course, Bradshaw is less of a cause than a symptom, but he's basically done nothing to warrant his push except that he managed to draw heat being part of a Pulp Fiction ripoff tag team and squashing lots of cruisers.

 

Any proof of this besides hearsay?

 

Towing the company line in his columns, begging for people to buy WWE stock, hanging around with Undertaker and Vince...

 

If no one gave a damn what a wrestler thought, he would not have been fired from CNBC, hell he would never have been hired in the first place. Seems you just made a contradiction there.

 

I must have not heard about how, in addition to his known job as a financial analysist, he also worked as a political commentator, with a particular interest in foreign affairs. I honestly don't ever recall hearing about that. Man, he does it all, doesn't he?

 

So wait, you mean to tell me that Bradshaw just suddnely burst into McMahon's office and said, "Hey, I'm sick of being a midcard face with a 45 year old negro (gotta remember he's a bigot)! I'm changing my whole character, turning heel, and putting myself into a main event program with the champion!"  Well, if THAT is the case, forget HHH, we have the real future head of the company right here! Or, perhaps Vince McMahon, who, according to NUMEROUS reports, is very fond of the JBL character, pushed Bradshaw to the main events? But no, that's not believable at all. We have to continue to blame Bradshaw to bolster our weak arguments!

 

About the bigot part--gee, I had no idea that all bigots shared the exact same prejudices. Hmm...

 

Find where I said "this is Bradshaw's fault," exactly. I was merely pointing out the many reasons people jump on him. Trying to develop a new main event character while pushing him to the main event simultaneously is more of a desperation move and show of incompetence by WWE than Bradshaw politicking.

 

And if I remember correctly, none of these RUMORS (key word there) were ever substantiated. Everyone just assumed it was Bradshaw because a cowboy hat was mentioned.

 

There have been reports naming Bradshaw as a guy who likes to bully newcomers, the rest of it is rumored though, and a lot of people like to take as fact because they find it very likely.

 

Didn't I just say, "average wrestler?" Besides, opinion, next.

 

You, Goodear: We have different opinions on "average." To me, a wrestler is average if he is basically decent and sound in most/all areas, but is extremely unremarkable in any of them. Bradshaw, on the other hand, has glaring flaws in the areas of selling, moveset, and pacing. Your definition may vary.

 

Only the part where you make relevant points. No biggie though.

 

Actually, each one was relevant, becuase they were pointing out why people don't like Bradshaw. However, if you want to twist it around to only include things that don't bother you personally, then we don't have much to go on, but that wasn't the point.

 

I don't think of any one "voice" when I think of the IWC. I think of a group of individuals that can either bring credibility to it, or take it away. Grutman, did the latter, by acting like a big baby, for lack of a better term. His whole rant was laughable.

 

Thing is, no one gives a fuck about Grut, so no one would take his opinion to mean the same as the majority of net fans.

 

What's funny about this is you were all AND.. AND... AND...

 

How's that funny? I was using it to emphasize there's a number of reasons he's disliked. If you're going to get on some one's case for improper sentence structure, as if this was formal writing, then you should take a serious look at some of your own writing.

 

Oh wait, thats pretty much The Dynamite Kid, probably the biggest jerk any of us would ever meet who is treated like king shit because he was dumb enough to cripple himself and put on good matches... never mind.

 

Oh right. That's why he gets mentioned on here everyday and his book was such a huge seller. ;)

 

Although, I must say glad that you're staying above this and not presented biased arguments or personal opinions yourself. Applaud for Goodear, everyone.

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Guest wrestlingbs

I think their are two reasons why this thread has gone 11 pages:

 

1) There is a steady stream of new info being put out about the situation.

 

2) A lot of it is a bunch of people defending Bradshaw.

 

I read JBL's comments in Washington, and I still don't buy it. Even though he is "just playing a bad guy" the Nazi Salute is still illegal in Germany and he should have known some people would take it the wrong way. Character or not, it's still him in that ring. And I find it funny that with all of vince's recent attempts to conserve kayfabe, the only excuse they can use is that it was all fake.

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Guest Goodear
[

What's funny about this is you were all AND.. AND... AND...

 

How's that funny? I was using it to emphasize there's a number of reasons he's disliked. If you're going to get on some one's case for improper sentence structure, as if this was formal writing, then you should take a serious look at some of your own writing.

 

I couldn't give less of a hooey about your sentence structure, I was making the point that a number of the problems with Bradshaw (not bumping, being too much like Stan Hansen) all teamed from him being a below-average wrestler which is just what the guy you were responding to said. You basically just expanded on his point a bunch.

 

Oh right. That's why he gets mentioned on here everyday and his book was such a huge seller. ;)

 

He's pretty much revered despite the facts that the guy himself has admitted to a number of times including shooting on jobbers. If you want to dispute that, be my guest.

 

Although, I must say glad that you're staying above this and not presented biased arguments or personal opinions yourself. Applaud for Goodear, everyone.

 

I forgot that I'm not allowed to have opinions again. Sorry everyone. Did I ever, ever say that you should shut your cake hole? Nope. I said your arguments boiled down predominately to Bradshaw being a bad worked (pssst, we know). If I didn't want you to have an opinion, I'd delete your posts or something. I'm not doing that now am I? Because, get this, I like debate and conversation.

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Guest Trivia247
I think their are two reasons why this thread has gone 11 pages:

 

1) There is a steady stream of new info being put out about the situation.

 

2) A lot of it is a bunch of people defending Bradshaw.

 

I read JBL's comments in Washington, and I still don't buy it. Even though he is "just playing a bad guy" the Nazi Salute is still illegal in Germany and he should have known some people would take it the wrong way. Character or not, it's still him in that ring. And I find it funny that with all of vince's recent attempts to conserve kayfabe, the only excuse they can use is that it was all fake.

I think we who been vocal about Bradshaw's actions shouldn't suddenly become Experts of German Law or nothing. Illegal or not Forget that part. As a person a average joe, We'd still think it was Extremely bad taste to go into Salutes and Goosestepping of Nazism no matter where you go.

 

Now on to CNBC firing him. Vince is shocked and appald why Bradshaw got fired for them... um Why? Forget again that this guy is a wrestler and does this stuff as he says to be a bad guy. Your a News organization, competing as sorts with groups like Fox news and the like, and the guy you hire to do Finacial (sp) Analyzations you hear is off doing Nazi signs and stomping out in Germandy. that makes you as a news organization look bad doesn't it? Vince doesn't get that? your not gonna see Sean Hannity waddle from his ivory tower of Fox news and go marching with the Klan even if he is faking or not because that would effect Fox news and he would get shit canned.... (though fox news you never know)

 

It sounds like Vince had no problem with what Bradshaw did on his own. The apology they put up was only to Save Bradshaw from losing his job. If this is true Vince's opinion on the matter, then Bradshaw was and is in no Danger of any punishment of the kind. Guess this is the shocking stuff Vince wants seen. Whats next Mordechai feuding with a wrestler then stealing the opponents Alter boy son and take him to a confessional?

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Guest Astro

Had I told you guys 12 months ago that Bradshaw would spawn a 12 page thread that wasn't started with the "anal rape" topic, you'd told me I was crazy

 

/adds nothing to the conversation

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Well, the Washington Post and NY Post both ran articles on the story...

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...7-2004Jun9.html

http://www.nypost.com/entertainment/22682.htm

 

Not good press for Bradshaw or WWE. Those are two big papers.

Here's some from the Washington Post, credit 411

 

Layfield said he had discussed his character with CNBC before signing the contract, which had language saying CNBC understood the nature of his WWE role.

 

CNBC said they first heard of the incident via emails.

 

Parts of the story that refer to Layfields comments include:

 

"They hung me out to dry."

 

"I was playing a character. It's the same as Vin Diesel playing a Nazi."

 

"I'm a bad guy. I'm supposed to incite the crowd. I've done [the Nazi gestures] for decades. I really didn't think anything of it -- I know how bad it is, I've lived [in Germany]. I've been to Dachau, seen those places where they exterminated millions of Jews."

 

"I draw the line between me and my character. That's like saying Anthony Hopkins really enjoys cannibalism."

 

"The only thing they asked me not to play was a stock market cheat or fraud. Other than that, they said they totally understood, that it was like Arnold Schwarzenegger playing a cyborg..."

 

"I thought I had it covered. I thought they understood the character is a bad guy and is going to do bad things... [JBL] has done some reprehensible things recently.

 

"I'm the worst bad guy they have..."

 

Layfield also claims to have gotten most of his promos straight from Pat Buchanan's run for election. The story goes on to suggest that "CNBC was okay with the fact that Layfield's character recently was seen on UPN telecasts of 'Smackdown!' as a Hispanic-taunting anti-immigration fanatic..." and "fine with the fact that in a column on the WWE Web site, JBL wrote [negative comments about the possible sexual orientation] of his detractors..."

 

A WWE spokesperson was quoted in the piece as saying:

 

"What he did in the ring was not probably the best thing to have done... We all understood why he did it and know that his intentions were good ones in terms of trying to make it the best experience for the fans and his fellow professional Eddie Guerrero -- to get the fans even more with [Guerrero], which is what John was supposed to do as the bad guy."

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I was making the point that a number of the problems with Bradshaw (not bumping, being too much like Stan Hansen) all teamed from him being a below-average wrestler which is just what the guy you were responding to said. You basically just expanded on his point a bunch.

 

A number of?

 

"and the first guy pretty much covered all of your complaints with 'average wrestler'."

 

There were other gripes. Although, in summary a lot of people dislike him as a worker, dislike his opinions, and dislike his attitude in general. It's similar how a lot of smarks hate Nash, but his workrate is just one of several reasons.

 

Plus, the other poster was basically saying he believes Bradshaw hasn't touched a drug and been an all around great guy backstage. Some are supported by reports, some are just strongly suggested. However, I see no accounts painting him as any sort of angel himself.

 

If he's going to single out a few "smark darlings" for drugs and infidelity (stuff in the past, by the way), then he's got plenty more to pick on, including Bradshaw for at least alcohol, possibly more.

 

Plus, you use ridiculous, hyperbolic examples to say that "smark darlings" get off regardless of what they do. Dynamite Kid gets props as a performer, but he doesn't get half the love of plenty of other guys who were far less workers (well, that would be pretty much everyone, I guess).

 

Jake and Snuka are examples of two legends who get props for their performance, but get little for being a drug addict whose addictions have caused him to make an ass out of himself constantly and a murderer respectively. Austin has lost a great deal of respect from smarks for many reasons. So basically, I think it's not out of the question to call bullshit on that theory of yours.

 

If Bradshaw was merely a subpar worker getting a push, he'd still be disliked, just like a number of the OVW guys and hosses. However, there's more that people have a beef with about him, so he gets far more hate.

 

In general, I don't think too many marks or smarks give a shit what drugs a wrestler has done as long as it isn't affecting their performance or threatening their lives. Generally we don't care about it in regards to our rock stars, so we don't care too much in regards to the wrestlers we like either.

 

So Bradshaw ranting about how we should drop bombs all over the middle east indiscriminately pisses me off far more than knowing what drugs X wrestler has shot up.

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In general, I don't think too many marks or smarks give a shit what drugs a wrestler has done as long as it isn't affecting their performance or threatening their lives. Generally we don't care about it in regards to our rock stars, so we don't care too much in regards to the wrestlers we like either.

Then why do you care about how they choose to draw heat? Seeing as how Bradshaw is not a Nazi, that stupid salute will be a one time thing, it shall have no effect on his performance or anything else for that matter. The issues was just pushed because a few people got their feelings hurt in an OPINION column, one that they despise but choose to post on the forum or read every time it is written. Like I said, the bias here is ridiculous, and I'm not going to go back and fort woith a group of people that are Anglesaultian in their stubborness and circular arguments.

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Guest netslob

Hyatte's take on the situation...from 411:

 

WELL, HE TOO USED TO BRAND PEOPLE

 

You know what Bradshaw’s problem is, right?

 

Okay, here’s a guy from Texas… thus he’s naturally more arrogant than most.

 

He’s also a guy who can play the stocks well and has made some money at it… thus he’s a blowhard.

 

He’s also the only professional wrestler in HISTORY who was a regular guest on a CNBC Business program… thus it’s natural for him to feel extra-intelligent.

 

He’s quick-witted and articulate… thus he’s a show-off

 

He’s a former football player (has been most of his life), current professional wrestler… from Texas… thus he’s a natural bully.

 

He’s an arrogant, quick witted, lucid bully from Texas with some money… thus, he almost has no choice but to be HIGHLY obnoxious.

 

He’s is the go-to guy in the locker room when someone needs to learn a lesson (Remember the night Perry Saturn got too intense with a rookie? Remember “Thank you”?) or when a rookie needs hazing…. Thus he demands respect.

 

He has the right friends in management, and Vince loves him… thus he feels above the law.

 

He’s also in the biggest push of his life… when you factor in all the above traits, you can’t help but assume he feels as if he DESERVES this push.

 

It’s a push that is clearly FAILING, by the way.

 

So, what happens when an naturally arrogant, obnoxious bully with the right friends who thinks he’s highly intelligent and clever and who is getting the main event push he feels he EARNED finds himself under tremendous, confusing stress when the push to the moon doesn’t get him as over as he assumed it would?

 

Why, he gets nervous and goes for the desperation heat.

 

I’m sure Bradshaw just thought he was being “cute” by referencing Hitler and goosestepping his way through a match in Germany… but like all morons who think they know everything, he just didn’t think too hard into what he was doing.

 

And it’s getting to him… reports say he’s running around the locker room yelling, But, I’m a BAD GUY!! I’M SUPPOSED TO DO SHIT LIKE THIS!!

 

Don’t blame Bradshaw for being an asshole… he’s only following his DNA code.

 

BUT… where do GERMANS get off acting so OUTRAGED? Within the last 90 years, you’ve waged TWO wars against the entire world, killed as many Jews as you could find, and made David Hasselhoff unbearable. And your chocolate SUCKS.

 

Hey Germany… you made your bed… it’s gonna take more than just a few decades before you can act so high and mighty! You should’ve thought of it BEFORE you started listening to Adolf and his kooky ideas! PLENTY OF HEBES AIN’T BUYING YOUR “WHOOPS, SORRY ‘BOUT THAT” LINE, MEIN FREUNDS!!!

 

My favorite part in all this is how everyone’s saying that Bradshaw isn’t REALLY a racist… oh PLEASE… of COURSE he is. All rich Texas bullies are.

 

Most of White America is NOT, I don’t think… we DO like to tell racist jokes tho’. We just make sure there are no black people within hearing distance before we start with the N-word jokes. It used to be gay jokes, but these days you can’t jerk off outdoors without splattering some closeted homosexual… like the Commies 60 years ago years ago, the gays are EVRYWHERE… and they hide in PLAIN SITE…. So we tell black jokes… it’s cuz of your massive cocks… we’re threatened. Sorry… don’t stab us.

 

Bradshaw never dropped the word “ni**er?” Ni**a PLEASE!

 

The important thing is… this isn’t as dumb as Hunter screwing a corpse… it’ll blow over.

 

More importantly, What the hell is Grut doing here? I thought he died?

 

All this talk of whitey talking sheeit about yo race behind yo back reminds me….

 

makes sense to me...except the anti-Germany part...

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Did you get that way when you saw Ed Nortons charcter in "American History X"? If you were smart, you wouldn't have. You would realise that he was playing a bad guy character.

Oh please. We've all tried that arguement before.

 

HHH was a racist last year, remember, because he said 'you people' to Booker T. Yet when some of us who aren't on the HHHate bandwagon tried to explain that that's his character.. "but wrestler's aren't actors!" was the response from the majority here.

 

Hell, even the wrestlers want the best of both worlds. They want the protection of covering their asses by saying they're 'playing a character' but yet when someone uses their real name, they get all pissy because they're wrestlers. :rolleyes:

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BUT… where do GERMANS get off acting so OUTRAGED? Within the last 90 years, you’ve waged TWO wars against the entire world, killed as many Jews as you could find, and made David Hasselhoff unbearable. And your chocolate SUCKS.

 

Hey Germany… you made your bed… it’s gonna take more than just a few decades before you can act so high and mighty! You should’ve thought of it BEFORE you started listening to Adolf and his kooky ideas! PLENTY OF HEBES AIN’T BUYING YOUR “WHOOPS, SORRY ‘BOUT THAT” LINE, MEIN FREUNDS!!!

Hyatte's an idiot. Does he even realize that he's generalizing and pigeonholing the German's of 2004 with the German's of the 1940's. Hello. Different generations here people!

 

Like I said. An idiot.

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Well, you can't say Layfield hasn't done what he was supposed to as far as people hating him goes. Even before this he was a very over heel, but that didn't translate into buyrates. Of course, alot of the blame can also be put on the shoulders of the Smackdown's inferior brand.

 

I wonder if when the world has forgotten about this, shall the debate rage on here?

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Guest Brian

To use Hyate's logic, he could have put on a white hood and robe and burned a cross. German jews would have been put in the same position as blacks, offended because it was something purely targeted at them. Whites would have been offended because they felt that the country of their forefathers determines how they should be represented, many of whom might not been a part of the third reich. Bradshaw was poking fun at Germans as if they all had a hand in Hitler's policies, and if he would have done the same thing here, it would have been horrible.

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Guest Brian

And even for that analogy, you'd have to pretened that it was the KKK during Reconstruction timesa about 10,000.

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In general, I don't think too many marks or smarks give a shit what drugs a wrestler has done as long as it isn't affecting their performance or threatening their lives.  Generally we don't care about it in regards to our rock stars, so we don't care too much in regards to the wrestlers we like either.

Then why do you care about how they choose to draw heat?

 

Because he made an ass out of himself. There's being un-PC, and then there's being an asshole for the sake of being an asshole.

 

You of course miss the entire point, applying my reasoning for ignoring the drug use and other conduct that basically affects only the wrestler on something he does as part of a performance. Bradshaw made a public spectacle of himself, on the other hand.

 

Seeing as how Bradshaw is not a Nazi, that stupid salute will be a one time thing, it shall have no effect on his performance or anything else for that matter.

 

I'm still trying to see the exact reasoning for him doing it other than the absolute cheapest of cheap heat. It's pathetic if a main event heel has to resort to insulting the city he's in for heat, but doing that is taking it several steps further. It didn't even fit in with his character. You just said he's not a Nazi character. So why do it?

 

The issues was just pushed because a few people got their feelings hurt in an OPINION column, one that they despise but choose to post on the forum or read every time it is written.

 

I've already been among those who thought the column was stupid and deserved the derision thrown at it. However, there are people coming out of the woodwork acting as if Bradshaw was a model employee and a credit to the business when he is and has been a fucking twat--IN MY OPINION, if you don't mind that.

 

Like I said, the bias here is ridiculous, and I'm not going to go back and fort woith a group of people that are Anglesaultian in their stubborness and circular arguments.

 

Yeah, a wonderful way to close. You're just the absolute pinnacle of brilliance and you're obviously not wrong. It's everyone else. Yeah. I'm glad to see you can leave the conversation gracefully.

 

Pffffff.

 

I don't know what you're talking about. They make movies. Vince said so.

 

Well, Vince could always bribe glowing recommendations from Gene Shalit and Joel Seigel if he needed to, I suppose.

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Guest whitemilesdavis
there's being an asshole for the sake of being an asshole.

 

See Webter's for the definition of a heel character in wrestling.

 

I'm still trying to see the exact reasoning for him doing it other than the absolute cheapest of cheap heat

 

Do you honestly expect something more of Bradshaw. I mean, it's Bradshaw.

 

It didn't even fit in with his character. You just said he's not a Nazi character. So why do it?

 

This I have to agree with you on. It doesn't make sense for his character, which speaks more to the lack of ability on Bradshaw's part than the horrible nature of the act itself.

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Bradshaw's character is a heel. His character is basically 'cocky pro-American who thinks he's better than everyone'. So I guess it fits.

 

 

The sad thing is...I'm sure he actually belives that 'I'm just playing a character' stuff. To a point it's true, I guess. Not to the point he's taken it to however.

 

Since the death of kayfabe, there's been a line between being a heel and 'don't offend anyone because we'll get shit from the internet and media'. Bradshaw crossed it. If it were 1980 whatever, I doubt the media would have given a crap. Hell, if it were 1991 I doubt the media would have given a crap.

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Guest whitemilesdavis

I'm very interested to see how Vince puts this in the show. I'm sure there will be nothing tonight, but the "fit really hit the shan" after they taped on Tuesday. I can't imagine Vince not trying to capitalize on every piece of mainstream publicity he gets.

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Guest JMA

Does this mean Bradshaw's character will be retooled as a Nazi?

 

Just imagine the team of Kenzo and JBL -- TEAM AXIS~! :ph34r:

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