Guest OraleHolmes Report post Posted June 23, 2004 According to the Times, the Lakers are asking for Dirk Nowitzki, Jamison, and Howard in exchange for the most dominant player in the game, Shaquille O'Neal. At first, Mark Cuban was ambivalent about trading the versatile seven footer in Nowitzki, but his immediate desire to win, coupled with his desire to grant Shaq and extension after the 2004-2005 season, makes this trade a great possibility. In addition, with an Antoine Walker-Kurt Thomas trade on the horizon, Dallas' starting lineup will look something like this: Finley Thomas Shaq Nash Daniels/Najera The Lakers' starting lineup would look something like this: Kobe Payton Nowitzki Howard Jamison/Malone With Derek Fisher (to Houston) and Fox (retirement) possibly leaving, the Lakers will have some cap room to sign either Eric Dampier or Troy Hudson. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted June 23, 2004 I guess the three pages about post nba action wasn't enough... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrRant 0 Report post Posted June 23, 2004 Certainly not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest OraleHolmes Report post Posted June 23, 2004 don't you think it would be a great deal for both teams? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vitamin X Report post Posted June 23, 2004 Nowitzki is certainly an improvement in athleticism over Shaq, but time will have to wait and see for if it'll be an improvement in ability. Orale, where did you get these two guys from.. Howard Jamison/Malone ??? Malone is pretty much done and who the fuck are Howard and Jamison and where did they come from? LA needs to keep Fisher and Kobe. A lineup of Kobe Bryant Troy Hudson Gary Payton/Derek Fisher Dirk Nowitzki ??? would be awesome. All they need is someone who can play defense. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
razazteca 0 Report post Posted June 23, 2004 Nellie and Cuban have gone mad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest OraleHolmes Report post Posted June 23, 2004 Josh Howard and Antawn Jamison would be part of the Nowitzki package. And I'm assuming Malone would stay, although it is doubtful at this point... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vitamin X Report post Posted June 23, 2004 Oh my mistake. I don't know about them, but I would trade for Nowitzki and a draft pick, maybe Jamison. Not sure about Howard. Shaq isn't worth that much, and having all those guys on the team takes up cap room, there's a damn good free agent market out there from what I saw. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2GOLD 0 Report post Posted June 23, 2004 Giving up Dirk for the walking headache Shaq may make Dallas dumber than I thought was possible for one team to be. I'm a Mavs fan and I can honestly say, leave Mr. "maybe I'll play in the playoffs, we'll see" on the Lakers. Shaq didn't win jack without Kobe and I rather have Dirk than old man foot trouble. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest OraleHolmes Report post Posted June 23, 2004 Howard is a really good player, especially on the defensive end. He was a top six rookie last year and reminds me of a Tayshaun Prince/Doug Christie type of player. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Electrifyer 0 Report post Posted June 23, 2004 Dallas isn't going anywhere with there current lineup. This trade could actually do them some good. Now, they will finally get a big man to compete down low in the West and provide some D when he feels like it (but "when he feels like it" is still better than the defense they currently have). Giving away Jamison and Howard is fine. Marquis Daniels is pretty much the same as or even better than Howard. Jamison hasn't done much that will harm Dallas if he's gone. All the Mav's need to do now is make sure they get Nash back and they have a good chance of improving. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly Report post Posted June 23, 2004 I think the Mavs need a new head coach too. Don Nelson would probably want to do silly shit like have Shaq run the point. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rrrsh Report post Posted June 23, 2004 I have heard Finley instead of Jamison. Which would make more sense because Finely makes more than Jamison so it helps with the cap switch (Shaq makes like 9 mill more than Dirk) I also heard that Dallas will throw in Walker, then LA will trade Finley for Thomas and keep Walker. Making Dallas Shaq Jamison Nash Najera A Free Agent who can shoot LA Payton Kobe Nowinki Walker Thomas and New York Houston Maurbary Finley McDyse That Big Europian Player they drafted a couple years ago. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kurt Angle Mark 0 Report post Posted June 23, 2004 According to the Times, the Lakers are asking for Dirk Nowitzki, Jamison, and Howard in exchange for the most dominant player in the game, Shaquille O'Neal. New York or Los Angeles Times ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Czech Republic 0 Report post Posted June 23, 2004 Dallas is F'ING NUTS if they give up Dirk Nowitzki for an aging Shaq. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
J. Hungerford Smith 0 Report post Posted June 23, 2004 Giving up Dirk for the walking headache Shaq may make Dallas dumber than I thought was possible for one team to be. I'm a Mavs fan and I can honestly say, leave Mr. "maybe I'll play in the playoffs, we'll see" on the Lakers. Shaq didn't win jack without Kobe and I rather have Dirk than old man foot trouble. Did you even watch the NBA finals? O'Neal was the only bright spot for LA, Kobe did jack shit besides game 2. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nogoodnick 0 Report post Posted June 23, 2004 Dallas obviously isnt going to win with their current squad so a trade makes sense. Shaq fills a huge void on D just by being so huge. And I don't think the Diesel has neccessarily declined in talent. In 03-04 he did avg a career low 22 pg but he also avg a career low 14 shot attempts, down 4.5 from his career avg of 18.6. If he gets a teamate who isn't a selfish bitch and will feed him the rock then he can have another couple great seasons. He was still the most dominant force in the league this past year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steviekick 0 Report post Posted June 23, 2004 With Steve Nash who isn't a selfish bitch and will feed Shaq the rock then he can have another couple great seasons. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Fett 0 Report post Posted June 23, 2004 Bad trade for Dallas. The Mavs are better off keeping Dirk and going after Dampier. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
razazteca 0 Report post Posted June 23, 2004 The problem with Dallas and their defense troubles is the second they get a player who knows how to defend, Nellie F'N trades them the next season! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vitamin X Report post Posted June 23, 2004 Giving up Dirk for the walking headache Shaq may make Dallas dumber than I thought was possible for one team to be. I'm a Mavs fan and I can honestly say, leave Mr. "maybe I'll play in the playoffs, we'll see" on the Lakers. Shaq didn't win jack without Kobe and I rather have Dirk than old man foot trouble. Did you even watch the NBA finals? O'Neal was the only bright spot for LA, Kobe did jack shit besides game 2. Did you watch how the Lakers GOT to the Finals? Kobe was the reason they got to the Finals, the Pistons had a perfect strategy of allowing Shaq his points on double or tripling Kobe and not letting him have his points. Kobe's reluctance to pass the ball to Shaq in part did them in and didn't force the Pistons to change their strategy (as did Jackson's reluctance to move away from the triangle). Dirk would definitely be an upgrade over O'Neal although it's going to be weird seeing someone else at center other than Shaq. I know this though, I'm pretty sure Dirk would be much more content to play Pippen to Bryant's Jordan than Shaq ever could, especially even more now that Kobe is starting to enter his PRIME~ (28-33 is prime, 34+ you decline, do we all acknowledge this?) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kurt Angle Mark 0 Report post Posted June 23, 2004 From Tomorrow's L.A. Times After a weekend spent hazy on the subject, Kupchak is convinced that O'Neal does, indeed, wish to leave the Lakers. Word spread quickly through the league and by midday Tuesday general managers were piling players on top of players to match O'Neal's $27.7-million salary. The Clippers tried to entice the Lakers with a package of three players, including Elton Brand, and their first-round draft pick, according to sources, but talks ended quickly. O'Neal is eager to leave the Lakers, but he won't play for the Clippers or any of the NBA's second tier. "We want to be in an environment where we can win," said Mike Parris, O'Neal's business manager. "We want a team that is committed to winning." The Dallas Mavericks, however, could start an offer with Dirk Nowitzki, the Portland Trail Blazers with Zach Randolph, the Memphis Grizzlies with Pau Gasol, the Indiana Pacers with Jermaine O'Neal. Jerry West recently told reporters in Memphis that the young, gifted Gasol was untouchable unless Shaq or Kobe became available and, lo and behold, at least one of them has. O'Neal is believed to be willing to approve of about eight franchises. And while he cannot block a trade to an undesirable franchise, he could refuse a contract extension. Kupchak did talk to the Clippers on Tuesday. And he did talk to the Mavericks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Smell the ratings!!! Report post Posted June 23, 2004 lol prime that was awesome. uh, what was...oh trade. Personally I think Shaq = Dirk at this point. Sure Shaq has only about 3 years left, but even in fat old man mode he's better than Dirk. The effect of losing Howard is cancelled out by the effect of getting rid of Jamison. Basically this is just a shakeup trade for Dallas since their current style/roster hasn't been able to get them to the finals. this is all assuming they can keep Nash and Daniels, of course. ps - Now Jermaine O'Neal, there's a guy I wouldn't trade for Shaq. Uh uh. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vitamin X Report post Posted June 23, 2004 From Tomorrow's L.A. Times After a weekend spent hazy on the subject, Kupchak is convinced that O'Neal does, indeed, wish to leave the Lakers. Word spread quickly through the league and by midday Tuesday general managers were piling players on top of players to match O'Neal's $27.7-million salary. The Clippers tried to entice the Lakers with a package of three players, including Elton Brand, and their first-round draft pick, according to sources, but talks ended quickly. O'Neal is eager to leave the Lakers, but he won't play for the Clippers or any of the NBA's second tier. "We want to be in an environment where we can win," said Mike Parris, O'Neal's business manager. "We want a team that is committed to winning." The Dallas Mavericks, however, could start an offer with Dirk Nowitzki, the Portland Trail Blazers with Zach Randolph, the Memphis Grizzlies with Pau Gasol, the Indiana Pacers with Jermaine O'Neal. Jerry West recently told reporters in Memphis that the young, gifted Gasol was untouchable unless Shaq or Kobe became available and, lo and behold, at least one of them has. O'Neal is believed to be willing to approve of about eight franchises. And while he cannot block a trade to an undesirable franchise, he could refuse a contract extension. Kupchak did talk to the Clippers on Tuesday. And he did talk to the Mavericks. Well O'Neal for O'Neal might just be a reality after all. I expect alfdogg to be fuming with anger any minute now... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest FrigidSoul Report post Posted June 23, 2004 If Dallas hands LA over a package of Dirk, Jamison, and Howard for just Shaq then they're fucking stupid. Maybe for Shaq, Kareem Rush, and the Lakers first round pick. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dangerous A 0 Report post Posted June 23, 2004 Until I see this on a credible site like ESPN or CBSSportsline, I will take this with a grain of salt. You have both upsides and downsides for both Shaq and Dirk. Shaq's upsides 1) He is still the top center in the entire league. 2) With the exception of Yao Ming, no one can guard him one on one and not get burned. 3) He is a winner and makes guys around him better because of him drawing double and triple teams. Shaq's downsides 1) He is aging, although centers tend to stay around longer in the NBA because good big men are very hard to come by, especially dominant ones. 2) Injury prone. Shaq hasn't had a full regular and post season without a major injury along the way. 3) Possible lack of hunger and desire. They guy already has 3 championships and doesn't work out as often as his team would like to stay in shape. Dirk's upsides 1) 7 footer with a long range on his jumper. Can go inside and out. 2) He's younger than Shaq. 3) Finally gives the Lakers the help they need at the 4 spot. Dirk's downsides 1) 7 footer with long range on his jumper. I know I stated this as an upside, but sometimes Dirk falls in love with the jumper when he should be trying to get in the paint. 2) Defense. Dirk suffers from the Euro stereotype of not very good defense. There is room to improve, but Dirk hasn't shown a whole lot of interest to improve on the defensive end of the floor. 3) Needs the ball to be effective. If this is going to be the Kobe show, Dirk can look forward to a lot less touches. That will effect the primary weapon he brings to the Lakers-his scoring. If I were Cuban or Buss, I would think long and hard about this deal. I know there are other guys to consider, but most of those guys are Mavs, so Cuban should be the one to think harder and longer. Again, until a credible source besides "The Times" reports any Dallas/LA deal, take this with a grain, make that boulder of salt. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. S£im Citrus 0 Report post Posted June 23, 2004 The last I heard, Nash had wanted to sign either with Phoenix or Toronto; can anyone confirm that he changed his mind, or are you all just assuming that he'll stay in Dallas if they trade for O'Neal? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest OraleHolmes Report post Posted June 23, 2004 From tomorrow's New York Times: "More than 20 of the league's 30 teams have called the Los Angeles Lakers, inquiring about O'Neal, according to an Eastern Conference executive. Though Mitch Kupchak, the Lakers' general manager, has recently suggested that he wants to keep O'Neal, the club is entertaining several possible trades, most notably with the Dallas Mavericks. The Mavericks are one of the more realistic landing spots for O'Neal, who will make $27.7 million next season, because they have the high-salaried stars necessary to make such a deal, and their owner, Mark Cuban, is a big spender. According to the Eastern Conference executive, Dallas is offering Dirk Nowitzki and Steve Nash for O'Neal. The Nets, who would be willing to part with Kenyon Martin and Kerry Kittles, are among the clubs pursuing O'Neal." Dirk AND Nash for O'Neal? Even better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Smell the ratings!!! Report post Posted June 23, 2004 I haven't heard anything about where Nash is leaning. I know he has a lot of choices though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nogoodnick 0 Report post Posted June 23, 2004 3) Possible lack of hunger and desire. They guy already has 3 championships and doesn't work out as often as his team would like to stay in shape. I think Shaq will be motivated if they trade him to Dallas because he has a huge chip on his shoulder. He wants to prove Kobe aint shit and it was him who won the championships. I think he'll want to stick it to Buss and Kupchak for not having his back. If Shaq does go to Dallas I think Steve Nash would re-sign. It would be his best shot at a championship. Hes also never really benefited from playing with a dominant big man who can make him better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
